Thread 106321481

There are people on the internet swearing on their life about how Xorg or Wayland is superior. From my experience of using Linux for the past 5-6 months (first month Mint, the rest Arch) both are stupid in their own way.

I began with Xorg but ever since I got the 2nd monitor when I play games I would experence stutters where it seemed as if my fps got halved. However, both Steam and MangoHud fps counter would say that my fps is absolutely stable. This would happen a few seconds in a minute. This happened on Cinammon, KDE X11 and DWM.

Switching to Wayland (KDE) solved this problem, but now I can't connect remotely to my PC via Anydesk [spoiler]which I use during the slow hours at work to connect to my PC and tinker with shit[/spoiler] and Viber messaging app which everyone I know uses to communicate (so don't tell me "don't use shit software") sends notifications to the middle of the screen, blocking my control of the video game or whatever application I'm using at the time for a few seconds. I'm trying to figure if Viber is sending to the primary or the active monitor. If it's former I'll try to get games to run on the secondary, but even that's been a fruitless so far.

Combined with general gaming on Linux issue where I have to do an extra step or two (or three or four) every time I try to do anything other than run game from Steam without any mods, I'm thinking of just installing LTSC version of Win 10 or 11.

If it doesn't use the built in notification system that every competent DE understands, it's a shit app.

>gaming
pebkac

The problem with wayland is simple: Its design is kiosk (crippled for desktop) and unsafe-prone (its sync model made ALL implementations have exploitable LPEs). However, if it ended here, it would be only shit being replaced by feces (as usual in Linux). It creates versioning problem at display server level, this at lib level was a major reason that no one wanted to port closed software for Linux. Wayland upgrades that where even opensource code becomes more shitty to port (SDL has a giant HEURISTIC to try, guess and hope).
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>>106321841
This only have two possible explanations:
- People are suffer from masochistic dementia and cannot help themselves but try to fuck themselves.
- It's intentional to create monopoly. Where you will end up with KDE and Gnome only. Where one is more "liberal" but walks together with the another. Until only one remains and at this point is basically impossible to appear another one. Just like Chrome (Gnome) and Firefox (KDE).
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>>106321481 (OP)
The more I use wayland the more I miss xorg.
>no way to control where to force apps to start
>xwayland isn't fully compatable
>x11forwarding is smoother
>some games require certain Xwindow tricks to get it to work and that isn't available in wayland
>etc...

>>106321841
Plus. It's NOT safe. It does NOTHING for safety (it has no security model nor communication model to ensure isolation). It's a stupid lie repeated ad-nauseam. Because it "isolates" but communication is vital for a display server. So we basically workaround that through an IPC that is literally known for being unsafe. The final attack surface INCREASED in comparison to xorg. That revealed to be trivial to create isolation as shown in xlibre fork (so this obviously is not the reason).

>>106321841
Finally. The reasoning to replace Xorg is a lie or collective dementia. Because it's not a pragmatic approach, the price (compatibility) is FAR TO HIGH for even a perfect display server. Much less this piece of shit. MIR was pragmatic and an honest attempt, but died because of wayland. It's different from SystemD case, where while the implementation is clearly a behemoth, the design is sound and obviously superior to sysV. Wayland is even hard to compare, because it's useless, you have to include extensions to compare to anything real. The core design is shit and error-prone (again all implementations have LPEs, it's not even hard to find, even today). They are fighting against building common grounds (steam complained about this too). A curious case of sabotage or dementia.

>>106321924
So tell me Mr. AntiWayland, how do I get games to work on X11 without stutter fuckups?

>>106322015
You stop pretending you need more than one (1) monitor.

>>106322015
Use another OS (aka Windows or Mac). Linux is shit and only walking toward being more shit (thanks to wayland you may include other unixes here, it won't only kill linux, but everyone else for good. AT BEST force every unix to be KDE/Gnome only).

Your problem with Xorg is probably a configuration issue that can be solved with a few hours of google searching and tinkering
You're problem with Wayland probably has to do with a 3 year old ongoing debate about the usecase for making a standard that just works.

At least with Xorg yk what you're getting. Wayland on the other hand is fundamentally broken.

>>106322094
>Your problem with Xorg is probably a configuration issue that can be solved with a few hours of google searching and tinkering

I tried finding solutions for months.

>>106322035
>just don't use the thing that has the issue
Typical Linux response.

>>106321481 (OP)
It's really just old vs new for a lot of people

>>106321924
Fuck SystemD.

The point of systemd was to create a bigger attack surface. Before that the system was getting very secure with PaX/Grsecurity, bastille linux, and libsafe, and parallel SysV (seen in debian 7).

>>106321481 (OP)
On xorg disable compositor and problem solved

>>106322129
Yeah. At least they used to be subtle about sabotage. Anyways SystemD IS better than SysV. Which was especially shit in Linux (compared to BSDs for instance). The implementation is shit, "uselessD" could have made it. Not to say we didn't have good alternatives, just that SysV was especially shit to that point. As usual, we took the sabotage road.

>>106321481 (OP)
Stop being poor have all displays at same refresh rate and xorg works fine
Everybody hates gayland coz it still doesn't fucking work. Continued stream of shillthreads won't change that this garbage is never touching my system
>both are stupid in their own way
Yes everything in life is a tradeoff. Why are we even here hmm?
>>106321899
>muh safety
show me one actual xorg cve that mattered

>>106322104
Fair. I had something similar when my desktop broke so I had to use a USB C to VGA adapter with my laptop, and I was searching for a week before trying a solution based on similar circumstances.
>>106322119
I'd really like something new but Wayland isn't it.
>>106322222
check'd

Windows and Mac don't have "display manager security", it's literally the most non-issue ever. If you have a keylogger o algo on your Linux system you have bigger problems to deal with.

>>106321481 (OP)
>began with Xorg but ever since I got the 2nd monitor when I play games I would experence stutters where it seemed as if my fps got halved.
I got you brother. I've switched from kwin_x11 to kwin_Wayland 3 years ago for the exact same reason, and my monitors were same refresh rate.
There's some fuckery on Xorg where unredirections doesn't kick in properly on multi monitor setup. And other issue is probably when xorg could only synchronize to one monitor meaning that if they have different vblank deadlines one of monitors will miss the frame if any vsync technology is used.

>>106322222
I said about wayland dummy. Xorg is not sold as "secure". Whyland is (while it does nothing for safety. In fact, even less than xorg [something > nothing]).

>>106321481 (OP)
skill issue.

>>106322387
Exactly.
Don't fall for /g/ memes OP - use Windows or macOS - actual real desktop operating systems, not broken tinkertranny toys.

>>106321481 (OP)
Been on Wayland for 5 years, Xorg is trash.
Thank you for you attention on this matter.

This is the last post in this thread.
Please report any impersonation in the following posts.

>>106321481 (OP)
>There are people on the internet swearing on their life about how Xorg or Wayland is superior
All RedHat shills doing divide and conquering tactics, X11 enjoyers just want to be left alone grilling and Wayland users don't give a single shit about the matter, everything else you see here and other places is just anecdotal experience about which works best for a particular configuration and nothing more

>>106322015
I never had this problem.
Arch is bleeding edge and does have more bugs. Perhaps try to replace Xorg with XLibre which is much better. Available in AUR, but you need to uninstall all xorg stuf including the xf86-* packages, you want the xlibre versions. Otherwise dwm KDE and all wm/DEs are the same, only the server part is replaced not client stuff. X11 libs work without issue on XLibre.

Xorg is self sabbotaging, the Xorg devs are wayland devs and outright said they prioritize to fix xwayland over xorg issues.

>>106321481 (OP)
>From my experience of using Linux for the past 5-6 months
stopped reading here.
Some of us have been using GNU/Linux for over 15-16 years.
Maybe wait until you actually know what you are talking about before creating a thread to give your opinion like hot shit

>>106324579
And yet, we cannot deny the fact that he's correct. Redhat is currwntly raping the limix desktop by replacing a barely working solution with absolute cancer

>>106321481 (OP)
>I began with Xorg but ever since I got the 2nd monitor when I play games I would experence stutters where it seemed as if my fps got halved. However, both Steam and MangoHud fps counter would say that my fps is absolutely stable. This would happen a few seconds in a minute. This happened on Cinammon, KDE X11 and DWM.
This happens because the compositor you used is crap. Disable it.

>>106326164
and btw, hyprland has the same issue on wayland

>>106322015
Are you on amd/intel? mesa has shit scheduling, which causes graphical applications other than the game to run like crap without high priority graphical context. The simple solution is to disable the compositor (which you should do anyways, for superior latency). The option to disable the compositor when running a fullscreen application doesn't work with multiple monitors.

>>106321481 (OP)
>I began with Xorg but ever since I got the 2nd monitor when I play games I would experence stutters where it seemed as if my fps got halved.
You have to disable compositing for this to work. It's true that this an xorg limitation but oh well it's better than all the downsides wayland has.

>>106322248
>I'd really like something new but Wayland isn't it.
Yeah i agree, both because of its bad design and because of the people or rather companies behind it.

>meanwhile me trying to use arcan with qtarcan
im more crazy that both of you groups together

>>106327204
If it works for you........

The only info you'll ever need.

>>106328012
>Latency test with vsync on
Yes, even the fps limit benchmark is with vsync on

>106322653
>DONT USE LINUX SAAAR, MUH THINKERTRANNY SAAAAAR

>>106328338
I̶ t̶o̶o̶ l̶i̶k̶e̶ t̶e̶a̶r̶i̶n̶g̶

>>106327204
based.

>>106327204

I run qutebrowser with it. Works well enough for me.

>>106328012
Everybody knows.
Wait until wayland reaches security/functionality/feature parity with X in 30 years, performance for waylznd is peak right now.

>>106321481 (OP)
>this doesn't work
>switch
>now it works, but something else doesn't work
Windows 10 IoT LTSC does not have this issue.
I'm not even kidding, I've been back on it for a couple of weeks and it's insane the amount of shit I've been putting up with for the last two years.

>>106331029
I'm tempted to do the same, but even support for Win10 LTSC will eventually end, and everything coming from MS tells me things will only get worse in future Windows releases, not better, so I may as well get used to Linux now.

>>106331029
For me it's the opposite, when i use windows i'm instantly reminded why i left that shit 20 years ago.

>>106321481 (OP)
gayland and accessibility software are mutually exclusive by design, and whenever it's brought up, the gayland devs dismiss it as "concern trolling"

>>106321924
>It's different from SystemD case
it actually isn't.

>>106324473
>Xorg is self sabbotaging
no, xorg is being sabotaged by (((red hat)))

>>106333089
thank goodness

>>106335394
xlibre will just replace it altogether :)

>>106321481 (OP)
can someone explain why on earth this stuff is so hard? A window manager is just the thing that draws draggable borders around the graphical part of applications right? Because the applications themselves obviously output just fine on their own right? So how can something like this be such an endless pit of despair?

>>106328462
I never actually see tearing even without vsync on