Thread 106367645

Fuck modern software.

>>106367645 (OP)
All I see is a big fat stacked layer cake of shit.

No, fu/g/g/ a you! Imagine being filtered by modern refined & battle-tested software, lmao

>>106367754
>battle-tested

>>106367645 (OP)
>>106367746
You are low iq nojob nocode tbqh.

>m-muh all you need is some VMs/VPSs with HAProxy/NGINX to host anything

I hate this nocooder meme
try serving millions of users with high reliability and flexibility

>>106367754
>he says in an era of every site being a poorly performing buggy mess

>>106367773
>SAAR YOU HAVE TO USE THE KUBERNATES OR YOU ARE LOW IQ BENCHOD

presentation layer
>static html with inline css and no js
hosting/runtime layer
>nginx on ubuntu
just saved you a million hours of jeetlabor and tens of thousands a month in ongoing service fees

>>106367645 (OP)
For me it's AWS (Lightsail) > PHP > MySQL > Vanilla Javascript (Optional)

>>106367754
>refined
>battle-tested
lmao
most of these things in the list are worthless

>>106368089
>most of these things in the list are worthless
most of these things earn real-world money

>>106368105
the only thing of actual value in this pic is postgresql, the rest is psyops from globohomos to kill innovation as retards feel compelled to use these trahsy stacks for some unknown reason.

>>106368105
Yeah, the cloud providers make good money with completely over-engineered """best-practice""" applications initially targeted at 10, maybe 100 concurrent users.

MERN stack was where software peaked. simple as.

>>106368132
yeah tell that to the faces of millions of react, spring, whatever devs who have a job, earn money and are able to sustain their lives by using all those techs you - the man on 4chan forums - does not like. fuck you and lmao loser

ITT: shiplets. try shipping tech stack doesnt matter

>>106368171
>yeah tell that to the faces of millions of react, spring, whatever devs who have a job, earn money and are able to sustain their lives by using all those techs you
I actually do lmao, that's my fucking job to fix these stacks, not even trolling, I know you won't believe me anyways, tough shit.
these days it's mostly about ditching the cloud and removing k8s, barely any company need k8s anyways. it's a google psyops so companies do not invest in a better management solution.
there is a reason why google built it even though they don't use it themselves, never planned to and never will. most of these tools are engineered to waste people time, that's especially true for the backend stuff.
>spring
absolutely disgusting, play or vertx are infinitely better

>>106368073
uhm but chatgpt says using microservices with aws whateverthefuck and cloudflare over a load balancer written in crust is the best way to go

>>106367791
>b-b-b-but muh millions users!!!
>meanwhile your server only had to handle like 200-300 requests per second
You're telling me you can't handle that load with a single $50/m vps? Hell, get a second server with extra storage and ram for the database but it's still gonna be peanuts for a company.

Back in my day we just used these on a nondescript hosting server.

all of this for 5 MAUs

>>106367754
All of these have multiple bugs and security issues often. They more software your software relies on the worse your software will be.

>>106368171
tech is not meant as a jobs program for idiots with false credentials

>>106368382
whats it like being old in the software field, daddy? (fr tho)

I can make 16 projects in the time it takes you to spin up one. I do not fear vendor lock in. If you're a small startup team and you're not building on vercel or cloudflare you are literally retarded.

>>106368382
Is this stack even used any more? All I see is angular/react/java/golang/psql running in k8s or straight up docker.

>>106367645 (OP)
i have zero idea what most of those things are, except for postgresql
my server just has GNU/Linux, nginx, postgresql, and fcgi for manually written C programs served via html, no gay php shit here

>>106367645 (OP)
Now I understand why all modern software is so slow and bloated while being inferior to the stuff that was around 20-30 years ago.

>>106368633
Checked and based.

>>106368633
>my server
you don't serve any users except yourself

>>106368076
(A Server) > Go > htmx/JS-components. Go is nice because you just write out your webserver so it's like a Php/nginx wrapped up in one.

>>106368805
Forgot sqlite.

>>106368601
This is an actually good advice. Weird.

>>106368790
actually i serve over 2000 unique IPs daily on average

>>106367645 (OP)
for me it's just good old linux + nginx + php + mariadb + redis + html
if it can't be done with that, it's not worth doing

>>106368076
>>106368933
>php
yucky boomers

>>106369019
>"PHP is le bad"
is the boomer take now. We've come full circle. This isn't 2012 anymore old man.

>>106367645 (OP)
Totally agree.

>>106367791
Lmao at retards like you who think they need to scale to facebook sizes from the start. You have more microservices than users.

>>106368335
>>106369219
Or you have high IQ like me and just do it correctly from the start using a single node k8s cluster

Then you can easily deploy an observability stack + CI/CD stack straight out of the box

Literally faster than being a retard juggling EC2 instances with SSH like it's 2012

>>106369316
Same cost as well except you can grow your apps/infra easily

>>106367645 (OP)
wtf is any of this stuff I just build websites with Claude

>>106369316
>high IQ
>stack
>CI/CD
>EC2
>SSH
>2012
Hey bud, take it easy on the initialisms, alright?

>>106369427
Go back to /utwg/ my retardo friend

>>106367645 (OP)
you are like a little baby, watch this:
presentation layer: JS (optional)
Data Access layer: PHP
Data storage layer: MariaDB (which is also my cache)
Infrastructure layer: server room downstairs

>>106367645 (OP)
This is why everything sucks now. Good job retards. Do you need a framework to help you take a shit too?

>>106368382
let me guess, you need more?

>>106368601
> cloudflare
what better way to make a website work than letting cloudflare decide if you should have a website at all.

>>106369219
> but how else will I get my website that has 10 visitors a month and 900 bots a day to scale?
the people in this thread are fucking brainlets.

>>106369316
> my website has 10 users but I need scale for.... reasons.

>>106368105
>most of these things earn real-world money
that doesn't mean they are good though
there is a number of reasons why companies choose these instead of a simpler solution, and these reasons are not necessarily because they are better

>>106369646
nocoder detected

>>106367645 (OP)
And it's aaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll garbage that could have been done hundreds of times more efficiently.

>>106369673
>it's all garbage
shut the fuck up. you don't even program kek

post your open source version of any of the technologies in the OP

>>106369316
None of what you said makes any goddamn sense without scale. You're wasting your fucking time and thinking you're high IQ. Kill yourself.

>>106369673
lol?
then just do it.

just push your own FOSS alternative

>>106369716
>sure, we need 1 server per user, but we can scale to millions!

>>106369625
just pay your bill and dont violate their ToS (which is very forgiving, btw)

>>106367645 (OP)
it's just webshit which has historically been a tumor

>>106367791
Do you have millions of users?

Growing up is realizing everything on the internet is gay. Including this site, me, and all of (You)

>>106368076
I use s3 for static hosting and Go lambdas instead of a pure backend, is cheaper for small businesses and its nice to work on.

>>106369716
I doesn't make sense with scale either.
The moment you get users and need to scale and launch more microservices, your cloud providers will rape you.

The big corpos, who the webjeets want to mimick, run their own infrastructure, they don't get raped by azure, aws, google functions, clouflare web workers, etc., because they ARE them.

>>106367645 (OP)
Does anyone actually refer to layer charts or is it something for pajeets to like and share?

>>106367645 (OP)
>Presentation layer
Rails
>Edge and Delivery
lmao
>Integration layer
lmao
>Messaging and Async Processing
Sidekiq, because I built in Rails 7 before Rails 8 came out
>Business Logic Layer
Rails
>Data Access Layer
Rails
>Data Storage Layer
Postgress
>Analytics
For retards. The only analytics that matter is ad spend analytics, in which case the answer is Hyros, but only if you're already making like ~$50k/mo.
>Infrastructure Layer
A VPS with systemd processes to run the app(s) with nginx in front.

>>106369611
The "people" "working" with all those frameworks come from countries that shit in the river / on the street / on the beach so yes they do need hand-holding (literally) to use a toilet.

>>106368601
I don't understand vercel, their website explains nothing

>>106367791
its much easier than you imagine. a shitty 2 vcpu express app can easily serve up to 2000 requests a second

>>106370276
based pussy railer

I shouldn't even be calling you based cus this is how things are supposed to be done

t. flask, string templating, CSS, sqlite (raw strings), nginx Chad

>>106367645 (OP)
this is what you'd be required to know for a newbie interview, and this is what every indian claims he/she knows on job sites

>>106367645 (OP)
Fuck. Legacy. Bullshit.
I'll take all of that then ever having to touch Hadoop again.

>>106368073
this

>>106368073
sweet. lets see what you have created

>>106367645 (OP)
it's just the top layer

>>106367645 (OP)
Is this the OSI model?

>>106367645 (OP)
wtf is all of this? This is just application layer, the real work happens below it(OS, network, hardware, etc.)

>>106367791
>try serving millions of users with high reliability and flexibility
My $120/mo server can handle ~5k RPS (Rails too lmao), or if perfectly distributed ~432million requests per day.

My users on average use the app for 5 minutes a day (utility, not engagement based app) or about ~30-50reqs/day. I make millions a year, and this server won't even get taped out before hitting $1B in revenue (so ever).

You are utterly delusional if you think any app you make is going to hit millions of MAU, and even more delusional if you think you need anywhere near that number of users to make a solid amount of money.

Every free public utility app already exists and has been established for over 15 years. You have zero chance of replacing any of them, even with infinite venture capital. Why do you think Elon dropped $44 billion on twitter? He could have built X for less than 0.1% of that, but even if he'd used the other 99.9% of that money on ads he still wouldn't have the user base X does today.

>>106367645 (OP)
If your code isn't running on your pc 24/7, you haven't solved any real problems and are a fake developer! GigaChad devs are also running their own browser extensions.

>>106370583
I'm not gonna share it because you seem hostile. The amusing part is, you've probably visited my site before since I've share it here numerous times, and I've always gotten compliments for its speed.

>>106370390
>t. flask
is Flask better than Fastapi?

>>106367746
fpbp

>>106370840
I'm curious what the utility is.

Somehow freeconvert.com, remove.bg, ezgif.com, geurillamail, all use tons of bandwidth and compute (save for guerilla mail) yet have remained online forever.

I have an archive which would feel sleezy to monetize. Running ads only netted me cents with thousands of unique users per week.

>>106370881
I dont really know much about fastapi. I stopped going through the docs after I've had enough of reading their emojis.

Fastapi is general more for APIs and not webpages, so the comparison is a little fuzzy.

Look at a FastAPI project sometime. They look and feel like slop. I understand it's probably the users being poor programmers, but I've got it in my head this is a fastapi effect, and I don't want to associate any of my work it with.

Here is an example.
https://github.com/remsky/Kokoro-FastAPI/blob/bbb6ab600e253f88328c360c648321cd48fc1bf9/api/src/routers/openai_compatible.py#L175

I find Flask very comfy.

>>106369698
>>106369725
Struck a nerve huh? It's fine i know you're insecure webdevs.

>>106370972
Clarifying a few loose ends,

I removed ads from my site cus it didn't seem worth the ad company data mining for pennies in return. It also felt wrong and I've open donations instead.

There's nothing wrong with emojis per se, but in documentation, it seems juvenile, and demeaning

https://fastapi.tiangolo.com/async/#asynchronous-code

>>106370972
>Running ads only netted me cents
Being a billboard for rent is for chumps. Be an advertiser for your paid product.

>>106370840
Why the fuck are you losers talking about personal pet projects? I'm talking a about a real fkin company with a real product with employees

Yes, obviously you can "scale" on a couple of VMs/VPSs behind a load balancer

Point being is that Kubernetes and the ecosystem is goated and super nice, fast and easy to work with from day 1 if you know what you're doing

But clearly you boomers don't

No, I do not want to setup some shitty Ansible job or a shell script that does ssh && git pull && systemctl restart MyBackendServer every time I want to deploy new changes

No, I do not want to write a bunch of shitty shells scripts to automate things

No, I do not want to grep on a bunch of logs to figure out what the issue is when something goes wrong

No, I do not want to setup some shell script that does "alerting" by piping output to mailx or some other shitty service

Kill yourself nocooder boomers

>>106371120
>Why the fuck are you losers talking about personal pet projects?
>I make millions a year
At what point does what I have become a "real company"?

>Yes, obviously you can "scale" on a couple of VMs/VPSs behind a load balancer
The overwhelming majority of products won't even need to go this far, and the ones that do will very likely be in the high 8 or even 9 figures range baring a massive amount of compute needed for the core service. The point isn't that you can just "get away" with using some kind of hacky solution, it's that unless your goal from the onset is to be a massively adopted free utility app that you will never need anything more than that, ever.

>>106371165
Yeah, sure you do
Faggot

>>106371213
It's 2025 man, a mil is the same as 100k was 20 years ago. It's a lot, but it's nothing uncommon.

>>106369646
To pretend he has a million users grade website of course, like people who buy expensive powerful cars to never use them

>>106371213
He is a successful software Chad, and you're a miserable 4chudder.

t. flask Chad backing up my rails Chad brother.

>>106368382
That's all I need to run my forum/website and I've never had a problem with it.

>>106367645 (OP)
I wish I knew how gay this shit was before graduating in computer science. Should've electrical engineering or even architecture

>>106368615
Forums, wordpress sites and lots of eCommerce still runs on it. You hear too much about other stacks because webshitters need to try to sell the idea that they are better than others.

>>106367645 (OP)
i just use AWS, mySQL, and cloudflare, maybe some tailwind here and there. Am I gonna make it?

>>106370420
Hadoop is dead.
It was replaced by hundreds of projects that do the same thing but are not packaged together.
>Spark and Kafka just recently got rid of Zookeeper.

>>106368887
>192.168.x
okay bro

>>106370972
>Look at a FastAPI project sometime. They look and feel like slop. I understand it's probably the users being poor programmers,
It was literally made because Python programmer were too dumb to make an API with other framework. Most of the Python ecosystem is retarded.

>>106369316
>just do it correctly from the start
Fantastic way to get nothing done.

>t. Facebook engineer

>>106368382
Was about to post this. This is how I learned to do web dev.
>~14
>Youtube "How to make a website"
>End up installing some LAMP development environment for Windows 7
>Learned PHP and SQL to make a forum
>No one ever cared about my forum but at least I have the knowledge

t. older gen Z

>>106367746
FPBP.

>>106367773
TPBP, or HR manager buying shit you don't need.

The only two things listed here you need are MySQL and AWS (or Azure, if you're on MS's dick over Amazon). And AWS (Azure) isn't really needed if you're doing shit on-prem.

I *guesssss* if you want DDoS protection and not doing it yourself, CloudFlare and/or Akamai are fine.

The rest are just shit you really don't need unless you want to make shit simplier on yourself.

>>106374793
This is also partly why a lot of Gen Z are "obsessed" with Windows 7 era tech. You're telling me I have to throw out everything I know to be proper, pay for a "CDN" instead of setting up a faster server with caching, learn an entire framework to do things vanilla JS can do, write my server-side code in fucking Javascript, learn a framework for my API instead of api.php (which I don't even need half the time)? Probably a million other things that have a simple, straightforward solution.
If this is really how modern software is I don't want a job in tech.

>>106367645 (OP)
Was kafka named as some sort of metacommentary on the absolute state of things or what?

>>106367791
>try serving millions of users with high reliability and flexibility
Oddly for your attempt at being le serious employee here, those things did exactly that for years and years and somehow I don’t think adding several layers of jeetware actually increases scalability. And actually not everyone needs a “millions of users” solution. Most companies and organizations I’ve worked on solutions for had between a few hundred and a few thousand employees.
You can scale up a fairly simple stack on something like AWS or Azure pretty reliably without all of this crap.

>>106367746
holy fpbp

>>106367645 (OP)
web dev is a joke

i'm in edging and delivering

>>106369698
>>106369725
Yo faggots here's my Foss(tm) alternative :
It's called install apache2 and drop your shit into /var/www/HTML because you will never need more than a 10$ vps.
There is no fucking need for ((scale)) at a personal level. If server struggle upgrade server.

>>106367746
fpbp and /thread
>>106367645 (OP)
most of this is just bloat upon bloat upon bloat

>>106368073
>and tens of thousands a month in ongoing service fees
oy vey

>>106367645 (OP)
What is all this niggerlicious shit? I've only ever used html and html only.

>>106367645 (OP)
HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Flask
Keep it simple, stupid