Thread 106377961

Why did DirectX 10 fail?

>>106377961 (OP)
it required vista

>>106377961 (OP)
DX10 makes NPCs less black?

>>106377961 (OP)
>another bot post about ancient bullshit
The mods on this site are shit.

It didn't fail. RE5 runs at 100+fps now with proton btw. Kind of amazing.

Why did OpenGL fail?

>>106377961 (OP)
DX10 had features that DX9 literally couldn't do.
If you're looking at a game that doesn't use DX10 exclusive features, then obviously they'd look the same.

>>106377961 (OP)
until 9 came out each version of directx had extremely obvious improvements.
Combined with the fact that it was still normal to be rawdogging your PC with an 800x600 CRT from 1994 it meant that the finer details dx10 brought to the table were generally lost on most people.

>>106377961 (OP)
It wasn't a mature API that required more effort than dx9

>>106377961 (OP)
DX10 was a mess that no one wanted. funnily enough it's related to:
>>106379698
OpenGL and DirectX had similar problems. While they started from wildly different points, OpenGL being a software interface to SGI GL cards and having everything needed to do that, DirectX was a basic bitch of an API that did fuck all, but because OpenGL was nerfed as fuck on Windows and writing a compliant driver was harder, DirectX was essentially forced onto the world as the only solution. And by about DirectX5 it was now actually usable and not a total joke. And then subsequent versions would just add features to support new stuff on cards until we got to 9, where it basically became OpenGL3 and they both had the same problem.
We needed a new API from the ground up that worked the way GPUs actually worked instead of this clusterfuck of bullshit based on how a guy in 1993 thought a GPU might work. But any attempt to make a new API resulted in all the incumbents whining that they didn't want to have to update all their code. So instead of Vulkan we got OpenGL4, instead of DirectX10-All New Edition, we got DirectX10-Actually9.0d, lol.
DX10 was the Android3.0 of DirectX. it was the broken assed busted hack job nobody wanted to support the featureset of the xbox one, the way android3 was the broken assed busted hackjob to support android tablets. The real DX10, now soon to be called DX11 and the "real" Android4 were coming RealSoonNow™. But then in the end Android3.9-stillfucked was renamed 4.0 and DX10.2-sameoldsameold was renamed DX11.
We eventually did get Vulkan and DX12 and the result is exactly what microsoft feared back when they forced OpenGL into the gutter: that if they don't fuck the competition over, THEY'LL disappear. And that's basically what happened. Nobody gives a shit about DX12.

>>106377961 (OP)
Only because developers focused primarily on consoles, which could only do 9.0c or whatever the fuck the ps3 used. The same developers didn't give a shit about the pc ports even when they were previously pc-centric and owed their existence to pc so they just lazily ported it over with 9.0c, 2004 tech.

>>106377961 (OP)
DirectX 10 turns niggers into jeets ?

>>106381833
vulkan wonned though

>>106381833
Vulkan is the rust for game development; nobody outside the cult wants to work with it

>>106383624
stfu

>>106381833
>bada
>bum
>bum
>bum
>ba-dahda dah-da-dah!

>>106377961 (OP)
it wasnt supported on xbox
dx8 was supported by the xbox (og)
dx9 by the 360
dx11 by the xbone
dx12 by the xbone x/s
it wasnt a big enough improvement over dx9 for developers to explicitly target it on pc except benchmarks and games that are basically benchmarks like crysis 1

>>106381833
>And by about DirectX5 it was now actually usable and not a total joke
You clearly don't know what you're talking about and just want to spout mad shit.

>>106383624
Everyone in the industry uses Vulkan, sit down

>>106377961 (OP)
>>106377976
m$ segmentstion

>>106384072
I literally get paid to work on Vulkan commercially shut the fuck up. It gets used in industry all the time. You know it's not just for video games right anon?

>>106384072
...so that's why they did Covid!
This your blog?
https://www.carette.xyz/posts/state_of_vulkan_2024/

>>106384095
Your anecdotal evidence has been duly noted

back then I played games I didn't care about tech
tech was just an annoyance because they made you buy new GPUs all the damn time until the 1070

>>106384095
>>I literally get paid to work on Vulkan commercially
then explain the chart

>>106384153
Average AAA games becoming too massive to support multiple rendering systems, DX was always primary for winfags.
(x86-64) SteamOS might flip the tables again.
But I kinda get Lord Gaben doesn't want to start an actually bloody war against MS.
Sure, Steam is worth billions, but MS's worth is the trillions, that's at least an order of magnitude difference in corporate size (not even considering Valve's skeletal crew).

Not sure if it's still his call to make, but if ever there is a chance to make gaymers leave MS, the most promising chance is Valve.

That being said:
Consider it *actually* does happen, gaymers actually do start leaving Windows en masse, how much user-base would he have stolen?
10%? 20%?
It cannot be more, most PCs running Windows are corporate office drone PCs.
That's a chunk, but not the world either.

Vulkan is the safe choice for multi-platform, but if you're doing that, you might as well just use OpenGL, because you don't actually need FMSAAASPx32 technology for some 3D-CandyCrush with some extra effects.

Vulkan is still just ahead of its time.
OpenGL is still good enough.
The extra complexity is only worth it for triple-A titles, who are targeting Windows.
Triple-A titles have become so massive, supporrting two rendering platforms costs more than it brings, since the target audience is 99% running latest Windows, because faggy-ass gaymer.

>>106384153
The chart is video games, not the entire computer graphics industry as a whole. What is there to explain?

>>106384318
the video games industry is the computer graphics industry buddy

>>106384338
alright we're done here

>>106384365
You can cope all you want but non-game applications of graphics programming is a small minority

>>106384338
No, you'd clearly have no idea how much CAD is worth.
It's also used in video encoding, because massively parallel computing == good for doing the same operation on millions of pixel values.

KiCAD is fucking good (probably because it gets buttloads of developer-time and money from CERN).
They should and would use Vulkan instead of DirectX, but they really can just use OpenGL, because, fuck it, it's PCBs.

But who am I kidding, you're probably both just LARP'ing.

>>106384365
Eh, maybe not both, granted.

>>106381896
This. Wtf?

>>106384402
>No, you'd clearly have no idea how much CAD is worth.
much less than video games

a lot of directx10 work went into directx11. dx11 had a lore more problems than 10 thats why we had to move to dx12/vulkan.

>>106384418
Are you twelve, or something?
Or do you live in a jungle?

>>106384438
No I just have a basic awareness of the software industry

>>106384402
CAD, Video Encoding, 3D Modeling, VFX, Touch Designer, llama, any time you need to do something massively in parallel with portability Vulkan is a solid choice.

>>106384447
No, you don't, you're just baiting me for attention, cause that's all you got, niiga.

>>106384468
Realtime graphics is 80% video games, all other applications of it are a small niche
If you work in that small niche it doesn't change anything

>>106379698
microsoft destroyed it to make people use directx instead of vulkan

>>106384418
>He doesn't know about the military industrial complex.
>He doesn't know about civil engineering
>He doesn't know about nuclear regulations

Even the "small" design companies can spend tens or hundreds of millions a year on various pieces of CAD software. I've literally worked at companies where every single engineer had to have licenses for upwards of 180,000 dollars in software renewed every year.

Granted, 70-80% of it didn't work correctly because they were trying to force things to be compatible with some legacy standards concocted in the 90s by people doing enough cocaine to kill a horse, but that's government projects for you.

>>106384493
>Realtime graphics is 80% video games
That's not implausible, but it's not 80% of the money, that's the point you're too retarded to understand.
Your thought patterns and experiences line up with that of a consumer, not business-to-business.

How many CAD-assisted buildings being built are there out there today?
All of them!
How many cars, trains, bridges, nuclear subs, nuclear power plants, all have some CAD-tools involved in them?
All of them!
Do you see the a pattern here?

Does it make sense for these companies to exclusively use DirectX?
No, on the contrary. The more external dependencies as a company you can eliminate, the better.
That being said: Those can likely all still use OpenGL!
You'd just be shooting yourself in the foot going with either DX or VK.

That all being said:
Video games might end up being worth more, despite all of this.
Because it's a fucking casino nowadays.
But you don't need DirectX for that either. Nor Vulkan.
Just some shitty OpenGL in CandyCrush clones.

DX10 was great albeit. Texture arrays are indispensable.

>>106384653
>but it's not 80% of the money
yeah its probably more like 95% because video games are where all the money is

>>106384653
>Because it's a fucking casino nowadays.
Still, the skins are only worth as much as the game is worth being played.
Counter-Strike understands this, which is probably we're "just" at v2, and not... Fast Furious XII.
And then there is the constant threat looming, that the government might step in.

Meanwhile, you'll always need buildings, and their innate value is more tied to the innate nature of life itself.
Games are just accessory.
Nobody will care much for the trinkets in a game, if nobody plays that game.

>>106384736
I can just respond with bait images too.
Are you actually OP trying to bump your thread?
Am I so entertaining to you?
>Captcha T88PK
Oh, some Paki with a minority complex?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5Rv-emU77I

worked great in bioshock.

fuck, we really need a path traced remaster of that game.

>>106384749
Do you think every individual object that needs to be designed needs its own special CAD program with a new renderer? Do you think CAD programs have complex renderers?

>>106384792
CAD software and 3D extrusion design programs have been software as a service since the 80s because of enterprise support contracts. If you truly cannot figure out how software that's important for literally everything within your reach has large revenue streams attached, I don't know what to tell you.

Something as mundane as the plastic bottle you're probably drinking out of use painfully esoteric fluid modeling technology to design because shaving 2% off of the plastic used in the injection and blow molds without compromising strength means millions of dollars a year in savings. Unless you live in a pre 80s house, it has components that were simulated in software so that they could use less wood. Any modern suburban housing development spends millions finding ways to cut every possible corner they can to build something that barely passes inspection. Anything military related has support contracts that make encyclopedias look like brochures. One of the places I used to work at had a series of support contracts that mean that both Microsoft and the company selling the software would fly multiple senior developers out to fix something if a patch to windows or the software itself caused an inexplicable problem. We literally had a custom patch for XP rolled out shortly after one of the service packs because there was some memory fuckery in the application that we relied upon that got broken with the update. We had a custom patch that needed to be applied to all of our systems for something like 18 months.

The amount of money that gets thrown into the void for B2B relations is almost beyond comprehension, and it's only growing with all the new machine learning crap for things like simulating erosion to get better valuations on premium coastal real estate.

>>106377961 (OP)
I was going to say that it added tessellation, but I was off by one apparently

>>106384430
>dx11 had a lore more problems than 10 thats why we had to move to dx12/vulkan.
What problems? Explain to me like I'm retarded please

>>106384072
>>106384121
all hail the retarded chart form nowhere with no context, the true arbiter of reality

I love dxvk

>>106385958
>>106384115
the sources are literally cited in the link.
go compare on the PCGW if you like
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Vulkan_games

stop coping. Vulkan is used by Valve, iD and indiefags only.

^speaking of all this "vulkan is complicated, dx12 is easier to use, more widespread etc." Why not just use dx12 and then use dxvk?

>>106386448
It's not nice to lie, anon
The wiki page hasn't been edited since 2023, and was clearly never properly maintained. Only a complete fucking retard would use is as a "source"
And regardless, these stats don't mean much. Most AAA games are made with Unreal now, unique game engines are getting rarer and rarer, and Unreal's features default to Vulkan. If you're an indie you don't need anything fancy, and likely end up with OpenGL (Love2D for example isn't even getting Vulkan support until the next release) and any game engines targeting Xbox and Windows are obviously going to default to DirectX
admittedly >>106383901 is wrong, but the idea people have that Vulkan is "dead" is just false. It's dead in most AAA but AAA has been crashing out for a while now and doesn't make its own shit anymore

>>106386448
The wiki page hasn't been edited since 2023, and was clearly never properly maintained. Only a complete fucking retard would use is as a "source"
And regardless, these stats don't mean much. Most AAA games are made with Unreal now, unique game engines are getting rarer and rarer, and Unreal's features default to DirectX. If you're an indie you don't need anything fancy, and likely end up with OpenGL (Love2D for example isn't even getting Vulkan support until the next release) and any game engines targeting Xbox and Windows are obviously going to default to DirectX
admittedly >>106383901 is wrong, but the idea people have that Vulkan is "dead" is just false. It's dead in most AAA but AAA has been crashing out for a while now and doesn't make its own shit anymore

>>106385716
drawcalls got bigger with each directx generation and dx11 was the breaking point for it. just wrapping some games in dxvk gives you a major performance boost just because vulkan is better at handling drawcalls.

>>106388024
if you're a mobile dev they pretty much all use vulkan or derivatives like apples metal.

if you're a pc dev you probably use windows and directx is the standard on windows so you learn dx11 or dx12.

>>106386448
>>106389523
Thanks for clearing that up.
>It's dead in most AAA but AAA has been crashing out for a while now
Exactly, they're busy hiring a bunch of artists to make, idk, 16K textures real instead of optimizing for best game-play performance.
This is, in part, because you can *actually* find people to do that, actual Carmacks, Torvalds and the like are rare, and the reason these guys ended up where they are is because they set their paths early, one probably slipped from gaming into game developing, the other was a CS student and started a side-project to create a free clone of MINIX.
But those are the kind you need to create cutting-edge game engines that utilize all the newest features.
Those guys, these days, are probably doing crypto, opsec, fintech or AI, which all pay much better (although stock-funded game developers could easily onboard such talent, if the shareholders can be convinced; too often, we're met with disappointment, Internet Historian does a bunch of videos on game developers with seemingly questionable crowd-funding).

Also, you can pretty much be sure than anyhting you do on Vulkan can still be made to run on any arbitrary system in 10, 20, 30 years, the same cannot be said with the same confidence of Windows.
This is, in business, maybe something you guys want to start thinking about.
You're all still in this
>90's IBM PC == WINDOWS
thought pattern, they're just *systems* running *operating system software.*
Cloudflare is likely the only actual corporation you cannot avoid in 2025, not MS.

>>106389542
It's so insane, that a wrapper for sytem calls runs faster in total on a system not actually designed for it, where as the entire chain of soft- and hardware, for which it was designed and developed, runs slower!
That's how shitty MS is and how much they need to rely on their monopoly power.

>>106389670
yeah dx11 is in a really sorry state atm.
https://x.com/domiedoodles/status/1959248985576575014
it can bring 500+ fps down to sub 100.