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Thread 106380110

325 posts 20 images /g/
Anonymous No.106380110 >>106380120 >>106380129 >>106380208 >>106380379 >>106380497 >>106380778 >>106380844 >>106380879 >>106381148 >>106381337 >>106381687 >>106384828 >>106384890 >>106385326 >>106385614 >>106386337 >>106386529 >>106386548 >>106386570 >>106386678 >>106386739 >>106386946 >>106387192 >>106387256 >>106387286 >>106387507 >>106388066 >>106390111 >>106390408 >>106390712 >>106394043 >>106394377 >>106395709 >>106395782 >>106399033 >>106402263 >>106402626
How could a completely anonymous, uncensored, unmoderated, trustless network protect itself against pizza and other abuse, keeping it clean.
>collective flagging to remove content
That's prone to dogpiling, you just need a big enough group to delete literally any content that you don't like.
Anonymous No.106380120 >>106380130 >>106387513 >>106394417 >>106400172
>>106380110 (OP)
keep it away from whites and kikes
Anonymous No.106380129 >>106380142
>>106380110 (OP)
you can't, or it's not uncensored anymore.
just accept the fact that content that gets censored everywhere else is going to be present on a network that is fully uncensored
Anonymous No.106380130
>>106380120
How do you keep it away from x?
Anonymous No.106380142 >>106380208 >>106386691 >>106395519
>>106380129
So you always need a central entity ruling over content and be at it's whim?
Anonymous No.106380208 >>106380336
>>106380142
You could >>106380110 (OP) use collective flagging and be at the whim of any big enough group of people instead
Maybe somehow train an AI to moderate content and shift the blame whenever someone accuses you of censoring
Anonymous No.106380336 >>106380778
>>106380208
>Maybe somehow train an AI to moderate content
But that would put the network at the whim of whoever controls the AI (besides of false positives).
Anonymous No.106380379 >>106380418 >>106380430 >>106380476 >>106381029 >>106381455 >>106384862 >>106385340 >>106386546 >>106386557 >>106390676 >>106393724 >>106395410 >>106396125 >>106396489 >>106397861
>>106380110 (OP)
explain why preventing sharing images of abuse is something that you need to do without sounding upset or invoking the violent videogames argument. remember that murder is worse than rape and murder videos are fully legal.
Anonymous No.106380411 >>106380455
>How could a uncensored network allow censorship
Retard.
Anonymous No.106380418 >>106390134
>>106380379
>explain why preventing sharing images of abuse is something that you need to do
For the network to be widely accepted, you can't have certain content on it or you will instantly be attacked as an enabler. Pizza and abuse content was just the most extreme example of what stirs people up.
Anonymous No.106380430 >>106400488
>>106380379
Also there are plenty of people that don't want to see certain stuff and won't join the network if they could just stumble upon certain stuff.
Anonymous No.106380455 >>106381090
>>106380411
>allow censorship
You say that like censorship is analogous to some kind of decay and not just an Authority (or even just an authority) upholding a standard.
Anonymous No.106380476
>>106380379
in the real world there are laws against it. it doesn't matter if there should or shouldn't be I can control that. But I can get vanned irl because people upload crap to my site and i have to show i put effort to avoid prison time and that i wasn't profiting from the spread of illegal material to avoid fines
Anonymous No.106380497 >>106380726 >>106381934
>>106380110 (OP)
Hi Tim
Anonymous No.106380726
>>106380497
Hi Al
Anonymous No.106380778 >>106384882 >>106388622
>>106380110 (OP)
>>106380336
Simple, really.
Don't filter anything, let users filter with their own AI. Completely separate filtering services from content serving.
Anonymous No.106380844 >>106381004 >>106381061
>>106380110 (OP)
All content is unmoderated globally; users create dynamic blocklists that can be applied. Optionally endorse some as the platform creator that were trustworthy enough for a while to help new users
Anonymous No.106380879
>>106380110 (OP)
I think you could achieve it with blockchain and staking oracles.
Anonymous No.106381004
>>106380844
This is logically the only way lol. When you give a single entity an authority to moderate content globally it's no longer decentralized or xyz-less that you intended it to be. Expanding on the idea: for media require a zkp that the payload doesn't match known illegal content sets from say necmec or other databases and require k of n in case one theoritically turns malicious. Relays or whatever your design is simply refuse to store if not confirmed that the hash is not in the banned set. Hashes are brittle as fuck so replace with stuff like perceptual hashes if you can somehow convince the pizza orgs to put something like this up LOL
Except for that there's no other solution than user curated filter lists
Anonymous No.106381026
I propose Anon's Social Network Theorum:
1. First you must win over the network effect.
2. Then you must defend against CP and spam.
3. You must defend against psychotic anons.
4. Move to silicone valley.
4. You must gain the approval of, or masterfully dodge psychotic billionaires.
5. Become the psychotic billionaire.
6. US government contracts after a trip to epsteins island.
7. Join the illuminati and live an eternal life by consuming the flesh of aborted fetuses o algo.
Anonymous No.106381029
>>106380379
Because if you don't do it, men with guns will come to your house and shoot you and your dog
Anonymous No.106381061 >>106381109
>>106380844
but then your network is full of pizza. It's just that normal user hide it to not be spammed?
Anonymous No.106381090 >>106381131
>>106380455
It is.
Anonymous No.106381109
>>106381061
yes sir. you can't eat a cookie and still have a cookie
Anonymous No.106381131
>>106381090
... an inevitable tool for anyone with any considerable amount of Power, yes.
Anonymous No.106381148
>>106380110 (OP)
Why would you want a completely uncensored and unmoderated network? That never, ever works well. And there's no benefits from removing all moderation. The only reason is to allow the sharing of illegal stuff, which you don't seem to want anyway, so why? I get that people are tired of being banned for silly reasons, but the solution is not to go to the other extreme.
Anonymous No.106381337
>>106380110 (OP)
You make all content disappear after a certain amount of time
Anonymous No.106381455 >>106384864 >>106390273
>>106380379
You should explain rather why you would wish to facilitate criminals who actually hurt people. I see no reason whatsoever to support such people at all, especially not in a distributed network which would probably end up using hardware resources from others to spread this abuse. I am not talking here about drawings and fiction which are created with no harm to anybody, but actual harm to actual people. I imagine many, many people would not even want to participate in any distributed project if they could run into real abuse content randomly, or if their hardware may even end up aiding in the distribution of such content.
Anonymous No.106381687 >>106381697 >>106387234 >>106394323 >>106394360
>>106380110 (OP)
Any fully unmoderated free-speech-oriented forum will ALWAYS become a magnet for all the people who get banned everywhere else and are starving for a place to be themselves in.
Pedophilia, far right ideologies, piracy, etc...
If you're ok with having these people on your site, go ahead, but be conscious of the fact that they're inevitably going to drive everyone else away, to the myriad of sites where they're not banned and don't have to deal with these groups that are deemed undesirable by most ("normies" if you will).

On a decentralized platform, the only mitigating measure I can think of (which is still very limited and comes with its drawbacks) is to have everything work on a whitelist-basis.
You can make your own list of trusted users/pages/whatever, or you can subscribe to someone else's whitelists.
If you feel adventurous you can disable them and explore the platform/s, add whatever to your own whitelists/blacklists, and if you encounter illegal material, you can decide to contact the authorities (who will find the IP address of the hosting service they're using and have them remove it if possible) and perhaps notify the people who maintain popular lists.

1/2
Anonymous No.106381697
>>106381687
Generally speaking, the higher the effort to make an account, be active, and be added to a whitelist, the lower the chances that an individual or group will spam new accounts.
For example, by only allowing accounts older than a certain amount of time to join a whitelist (maybe there could even be a default filter that you can set to block any account newer than a set time).
Or there could be an invite-only mode, and your filter would block anyone who was invited by someone in a blacklist you follow, and/or anyone who wasn't invited by someone in a whitelist.
Additionally there could be some kind of AI (either in the site software itself or as a crawler than anyone can run for their lists) that assigns a score to every post based on how likely it thinks that post is spam/csam/etc and automatic adds it to a list that you can use to filter posts with your own threshold.

Obviously this comes with so many drawbacks that you're basically just reintroducing the same downsides of a moderated centralized platform, so pick your poison I guess...

2/2
Anonymous No.106381934 >>106384801
>>106380497
Hi Faggot
Anonymous No.106383690
Bump
Anonymous No.106384801
>>106381934
You will never be a woman
Anonymous No.106384828
>>106380110 (OP)
>pizza and other abuse
This will never not happen since these are shoved into whatever uncensored network exists. If you care about keeping it uncensored, surprise you can't censor shit or it stops being uncensored!
Anonymous No.106384831
You can't. Either accept the limitations (benefits) inherent to freedom or compromise (surrender).
Anonymous No.106384862
>>106380379
because it makes my pp hard
Anonymous No.106384864
>>106381455
>>free speech is important
>criminals use free speech, why do you support terrorists? do you want to rape children??
Anonymous No.106384882 >>106385575
>>106380778
This is actually a good idea to handle it. You'll have people building repositories full of filtering AI that people can look at and pick from. That, or whitelist-based feeds where users can pick from curated lists (like the adblocker lists) and everything else gets blocked by default.
Anonymous No.106384890 >>106385135
>>106380110 (OP)
just pass all your traffic through cloudflare and let them scan every image every user uploads to check against their database of known material, goy
Anonymous No.106385135 >>106385189 >>106385295
>>106384890
Y'know, Cloudflare allows a website like this one, where you're allowed to say "nigger" and "kike" and say whatever you want about the genocidal-suicidal agenda around Operation Warp Speed. All things considered, are they really that bad?
Anonymous No.106385189 >>106385242
>>106385135
Of course the feds running cuckflare allow this honeypot to continue to exist.
Anonymous No.106385242 >>106385330
>>106385189
>honeypot
The entire internet is a honeypot, then, because nothing (to my limited knowledge, anyway) is stopping you from making a forum website that allows all the same things except the occasional hysterical DDoSer... which Cloudflare protects against, funny that.
Anonymous No.106385295 >>106385317
>>106385135
they allow it until they don't, and you either comply or get ddos'ed to hell by they themselves until they bully you into coming back, and then comply.
Anonymous No.106385317 >>106385352
>>106385295
>they allow it until they don't
How long have they allowed it so far?
>and you either comply or get ddos'ed to hell by they themselves until they bully you into coming back
Examples?
Anonymous No.106385326 >>106386751
>>106380110 (OP)
Use AI moderation like in Deus Ex
Anonymous No.106385330
>>106385242
You're halfway there. Cuckflare is a honeypot, fundamentally designed to be a man in the middle that decrypts traffic to and from your site. They're lax on what they allow because it lets them transform more of the web into a honeypot.
Anonymous No.106385340 >>106385484
>>106380379
Because a lot of child porn and child/adult/animal cruelty videos require the actual suffering of the said child/adult/animal

Nothing to do with videogames
Anonymous No.106385352
>>106385317
some other anon may have some actual sources, I'm merely regurgitating the numerous rumors I heard.
but if you think they're this benevolent entity that takes on its shoulders the responsibility of managing traffic for everyone with no strings attached, and that grew ridiculously fast in a short time span in a "totally organic" fashion, now mitm'ing a big portion of the entire internet, you're at least naive
Anonymous No.106385484 >>106385575
>>106385340
>a lot of child porn
>actual suffering of the said child
hurtcore is very rare and the vast majority of pedos fucking hate it
I'm pretty sure those poor girls masturbating on tiktok aren't "suffering" until the state-mandated therapist tells them they were raped and how much of a victim they are
Anonymous No.106385575 >>106385606
>>106385484
Okay, but that's just moving the line further, let's keep to the thread and say X is arbitrary. Could be pizza, could be murder vids, could be axewounds or nazi flags, or mlp or furry content. The only solution ITT is >>106384882, something decentralized and unanimous. That way, any community or user can decide for themselves, and image AI isn't hard to train compared to text AI. You'd have to account for steganography, and it would be a lot harder for any networks that allowed large file transfers or even sharing magnet links
It's a shame that the orgs working to stop pizza online aren't taking advantage of image AI and training an open source solution, of course they're so intertwined with feds that they'd never fuck up their whole game
Anonymous No.106385606 >>106397872
>>106385575
>You'd have to account for steganography
If the csam isn't being censored I think you'll find that the pedos will not bother doing complicated shit like developing steganography extensions and shit. Besides which, why the fuck would you go out of your way to install those extensions if you can just turn your filter off instead?
>image AI and training an open source solution
It blows my fucking mind that the glowniggerfaggots lock their fucking photodna and other csam detection shit behind some sketchy fuck API that you need to send registered mail with a copy of your passport and birth certificate just to use. It's so fucking obvious they don't give any little fuck about children and are just trying to build up a network of assets.
Anonymous No.106385614 >>106386324
>>106380110 (OP)
it can be uncensored, but then it must be invite-only.
Anonymous No.106386324
>>106385614
congratulations, you just reinvented a cp sharing group chat on matrix dot org
Anonymous No.106386337
>>106380110 (OP)
just by banning images you could eliminate most illegal content
Anonymous No.106386356 >>106386420
pass the image to a Government AI, if it approves it, you cannot be prosecuted for hosting it

>muh upload bandwidth
true
SPP No.106386420
>>106386356
You have given the correct approach.
Anonymous No.106386529 >>106386547
>>106380110 (OP)
text only.
Anonymous No.106386546 >>106386557 >>106386584 >>106387234
>>106380379
public perception is a good enough reason to at least make it difficult to run into such content by accident. there's tons of people who don't want to use tor et al. because of the perception that "only pedophiles and drug traffickers use/need them" and they don't want to be associated with such people simply by using such software. it's a major issue for any privacy/freedom platform.
Anonymous No.106386547 >>106386564 >>106395718 >>106396174
>>106386529
can you be held liable for base64 illegal images?
well at least the feds would have to use a different script to spam your network/site
Anonymous No.106386548
>>106380110 (OP)
offline meetup
Anonymous No.106386557 >>106386593 >>106386685 >>106391516
>>106380379
>>106386546
>murder videos are fully legal.
also, are they? i haven't looked it up at least recently enough to remember, but i doubt real snuff videos are legal to share or possess
Anonymous No.106386564 >>106386577 >>106387155
>>106386547
limit the amount of characters and have some filtering method to filter out 'non-speech'.
Anonymous No.106386570
>>106380110 (OP)
You can appoint me (me) as the authoeity on all matters regarsing what should be allowed and what not and I (I) would simply pass rules and write them down and get funding to employ a team that evaluates community flaggery within the guidelines of my rules and then moderates the content.
It would be censored and moderated and trust based but it would me (me) who is in charge so I (I) don't see a problem. Can't get any better than this.
Anonymous No.106386577 >>106386608
>>106386564
okay that seems to mainly work
we'll have to come up with a way of encoding images in speach
Anonymous No.106386584 >>106386627
>>106386546
which is why we need to normalize naked children
Anonymous No.106386593 >>106386627
>>106386557
Why wouldn't they be? Is the Christchurch shooting video illegal to possess or share (in the US). Are ISIS beheading videos illegal to possess or share? What's the difference?
Anonymous No.106386608
>>106386577
spamming random words won't help you. it needs to be roughly coherent and on topic. ideally a local ai model that can filter and ban.

range ban israel, india and usa bases would probably filter 99% of it.
Anonymous No.106386627 >>106386638
>>106386584
that already is pretty normal. it's the sexualisation that people have an issue with, not simply nudity. maybe it's different these days or where you live, but growing up i saw plenty of people letting their young children go naked in backyard pools, getting changed at beaches and public pools in the open and so on. only small children though, before puberty. a parent dressing a child in public is very different to a video being produced that involves sexual acts with a minor and shared online is a very different issue. now if you were to secretly video a parent dressing a naked child in public, i'm not sure. they'd have to prove sexual motivation i suppose.
>>106386593
i don't know, that's why i asked.
Anonymous No.106386638 >>106386661
>>106386627
>it's the sexualisation that people have an issue with, not simply nudity
if you see the most recently deleted posts and perma bans given on this website, for example, you'd know that is not true
see >>106384463
Anonymous No.106386661 >>106386695 >>106386735
>>106386638
so you meant normalising the sharing of media depicting other peoples' naked children. this is sometimes protected as art, but it's about the intentions behind it. it's usually safer for 4chan for example to ban any depiction, because why even tempt legal action for something that doesn't hurt the website by banning entirely?
Anonymous No.106386670 >>106386687
moderators?
Anonymous No.106386678
>>106380110 (OP)
text only
Anonymous No.106386685
stop being pedophiles and maybe people would stop calling you pedophiles

>>106386557
they are absolutely not legal at all in the uk (even certain too-realistically gory movies were/are banned), in canada i believe they're illegal to distribute but not to own, idk about the us but probably similar "dont show it to others" type law, individual eu countries are all different and i dont care about them
Anonymous No.106386687
>>106386670
impractical most of the time. these days though perhaps you could employ AI image classification to block or require mod approval for suspected images to cut down moderator load
Anonymous No.106386691
>>106380142
>if i dont engage in some kind of protective measure, i and my things will be unsafe???? wtf!!!!
Anonymous No.106386695
>>106386661
>but it's about the intentions behind it
if I kill someone but didn't intend to, does that prevent me from going to jail?
Anonymous No.106386729
>text only
I post my manifesto and rant about everything I think is wrong with society on your service before I go and shoot up a school. I'm sure the publicity will be great for your project.
Anonymous No.106386735
>>106386661
on the normgroids' social media, you can get shunned and maybe get your life ruined because you like an anime character that seems, to the mentally ill observer, to resemble a child. for being a 'pedophile'.
if you're against rape and abuse it's one thing, one that I'm all in favor of too (of children and in general), but it's getting to a point where it's ridiculous.
so let's go back to how it was not so long ago and recognize that naked kids are not a big deal, and prosecute those who actually abuse and cause harm to children and everyone else
Anonymous No.106386739
>>106380110 (OP)
short answer is you can't, because you're not allowed to.
it's international evil at play, bigger than any one person.
there are solutions but they're complicated and not legal. however pedos have no value to society, so hope they all die
Anonymous No.106386751
>>106385326
that would work if the AI wasn't programmed to protect pedos and enforce against patriots
Anonymous No.106386946 >>106387208
>>106380110 (OP)
I seen the idea floating around /g/ of federated moderation. Basically local filters based on moderation by those you trust to be decent. But that doesn't really help the person trying to host such a system.

You could have an invite system and ban any derivative invites on the tree that are misbehaving? How do pirate sites self moderate? It's pretty hard to set up a system to selectively follow laws.
Anonymous No.106387155 >>106387461 >>106388468
>>106386564
Are you going to prohibit URLs too?
Because then it would be trivial to put the encoded text somewhere else (like a pastebin site) and to just paste the URL.
If you really do ban URLs, the short ones (or just the ID portion) can still be encoded in the first letters after a period, so you can still write posts that are fully coherent and make sense in the thread to everyone who doesn't know what's going on.
Anonymous No.106387192
>>106380110 (OP)
the "canaries" of liberty are the transgressors. if it's liberty truly, then it won't be clean.
Anonymous No.106387208 >>106387234
>>106386946
a truly free system will solve in live operation p2p resource donation (ie blind helping - you literally can't see what you have and also nobody actially knows either)

it's not impossible
Anonymous No.106387234 >>106387262 >>106387284
>>106387208
A system like that would make it extremely hard to remove undesired material, which means that it will be absolutely full of said material, and your site won't be visited by anyone who doesn't like it (most people).
See >>106381687 and >>106386546
Anonymous No.106387256
>>106380110 (OP)
You don't have to make "dirty content" impossible to post, you just have to make it hard enough so people rather post it somewhere else. It's a matter of economics.
Imagine making two networks and one of them is just unmoderated tiktok with a selection of pizza reaction images built in its chat function.
The other network only allows you to send messages in morse code.
The morse code network will not have dirty content because why would anyone use it to send smut while they can use the other one?
SmoothPorcupine No.106387262 >>106387277
>>106387234
'perception' is a concept courts already handle, ie., defamy, slander. Trying to take society as an argument is disingenuous for the judiciary.
Anonymous No.106387277
>>106387262
I'm not talking about the legal aspect here. I'm just saying that your site/platform will just become an illegal file sharing den and won't really be used for free speech.
Anonymous No.106387284 >>106387316 >>106387321
>>106387234
retard

fuck off

we are talking new paradigms. you calculate but in a way where you don't know what you calculate. extended, this makes it impossible to say anyone has precusely anything.

ie let's take noise
and xor a picture of a dog

2 noises

which is the dog

you can split both

4 noises

which is the dog?

is each a dog? no... are you contributing to the dog? maybe, but prove it
Anonymous No.106387286 >>106387293 >>106387309
>>106380110 (OP)
Make the entire thing a physical magazine. Writers have to write physical letters and mail them to the editor, who removes any names and bad things and burns all evidence as necessary. Make the physical magazine available online when a reader scans it themselves each week
Anonymous No.106387293 >>106387304 >>106387308
>>106387286
4 noises. 4 hosts.

who is hosting tbe dog?
Anonymous No.106387304 >>106387332
>>106387293
Trying to understand your post gave me a headache, and an erection
Anonymous No.106387308 >>106387331
>>106387293
The magazine.
Anon did you even read the post?
Anonymous No.106387309 >>106387331
>>106387286
there were physical magazines about pizza. notoriously the model train one
Anonymous No.106387316 >>106387344
>>106387284
I understand, but the mere presence of that material on the platform, with no way of removing it, will drive everyone off.
Believe it or not, most people don't want to spend time on a platform where they have a significant chance of encountering csam because some le ebon trole decided to post some in an unrelated thread (something that still happens to this day on 4chan), or even just by creating their own illegal filesharing pages.
A platform like that will quickly develop a reputation and nobody is going to touch it with a 10-foot pole.
Anonymous No.106387321
>>106387284
You're just describing a really retarded Freenet. Nobody uses Freenet because they don't like the idea that they're hosting CP. Even though the reality is that they *might* be hosting *pieces* of *encrypted* CP. Or not. This is the perception problem.
Anonymous No.106387331 >>106387380
>>106387309
>>106387308
It's the only solution, just have an editor that doesn't want pizza and the problem disappears. Technology apparently exists for sick fucks to look at cp, so remove the tech
Anonymous No.106387332 >>106387357
>>106387304
pic of a dog
and noise file of the same size

ie otp

xor noise with the dog

now you have another noise (ciphertext)

but the ciphertext and otp are just two noises.

and now these two files become 4 (you do it again for the otp and for the ciphertect

otp-otp
otp-ciphertext
ciphertext-otp
ciphertext-ciphertext

each is hosted by a different person

who hosts the dog (legally)
Anonymous No.106387344 >>106387436
>>106387316
oh, just have screening service. use ai to pre-check materials.
Anonymous No.106387352
>
Anonymous No.106387357 >>106387376
>>106387332
realistically whoever the government doesn't like probably. the problems and the solutions here are the fleshy meat bags
Anonymous No.106387376 >>106387405 >>106387416
>>106387357
random noise is not a dog photo. we can be confident the noise isn't a dog photo: it was genersted using hash functions.
Anonymous No.106387380 >>106387389 >>106387415
>>106387331
The editor is still moderation, your proposal doesn't solve OP's problem (which is unsolveable). Also if you have an editor that doesn't want pizza you can just just pay him 0$ and hire him as a full-time janny on your website. The physical aspect of the magazine doesn't add anything meaningful.
Anonymous No.106387389
>>106387380
i solved it lol
Anonymous No.106387405 >>106387460
>>106387376
then the UK will outlaw random noise (then everyone else), in cooperation with microsoft and apple. stenograpghy, audio noise patterns, whatever you like, there is a way to police it even if those people don't understand the tech. they don't even need to outlaw specific tech, they can outlaw the behaviours around that tech, like visiting the tor website, or using a random noise function
Anonymous No.106387415 >>106387429
>>106387380
you have so much naive optimism for tech
Anonymous No.106387416
>>106387376
You can also encrypt a dog photo and it will stop being a dog photo with that logic. But encrypted dog photo is still a dog photo just how encoded dog photo is a dog photo.
If you can get a dog photo out of some data reliably and consistently it is a dog photo.
The 4 pieces of noise will be somehow linked together for your system to be usable. The noises by themselves might not be dog photos but together with that link, they are.
Anonymous No.106387429 >>106387434
>>106387415
Can you explain how it would be different to have a good editor vs a good janny?
Anonymous No.106387434 >>106387449
>>106387429
have you ever had to sit down, open letters/printed pages, and work with the content in front of you? it's completely different to the mental work of anything similar online, and because it's a person doing something with their hands it's got more meaning and they will do more to save their own time. jannies are not editors or even mods, lets not flatter them
Anonymous No.106387436 >>106387463 >>106387464
>>106387344
But then that becomes the centralization point, which can be potentially compromised to identify the uploaders at the moment they upload, and to censor anything that the maintainer deems undesirable. You're effectively removing all the advantages of it being decentralized and anonymous.
At first it's just csam, then when some big televised event happens (like a politically-motivated shooter, or a big protest) they go "it's become clear that this material is extremely dangerous and we can't allow it on our platform" and ban it too. Then it becomes a matter of curating what opinions are fine and what are "too extreme", like on every other platform.
Not to mention that then the maintainer of that screening service or AI then becomes liable for the illegal material that goes through, so they're doubly incentivized to censor potentially problematic (to them) stuff.
Anonymous No.106387449 >>106387453
>>106387434
I see what you mean now. Still, the magazine would be moderated which doesn't fit to OP's description.
Anonymous No.106387453
>>106387449
because OPs dream cannot exist, you can only get kind of close
Anonymous No.106387460 >>106387519
>>106387405
no, rhey can't outlaw noise.
Anonymous No.106387461 >>106388490 >>106388575
>>106387155
url's to external sites would be fine?
why would one be held responsible for what other websites decide to host.
Anonymous No.106387463 >>106387553
>>106387436
moving goalposts tho
Anonymous No.106387464 >>106387467 >>106387575
>>106387436
First they censored the pizza, and I did not speak outβ€”because I was not a pedo.
Then they censored big protests, and I did not speak outβ€”because I was not a protester.
Then they censored the political shootings, and I did not speak outβ€”because I was not a political shooter.
Then they censored the n-wordβ€”and there was no one left to speak for me.
Anonymous No.106387467 >>106387475
>>106387464
you censored a word......
Anonymous No.106387475 >>106387483
>>106387467
If I only spoke for the people yesterday, I wouldn't have to autocensor today...
Anonymous No.106387483
>>106387475
tomorrow doesn't exist. nobody's experienced it yet. time is CREATED by experiencss.
Anonymous No.106387507
>>106380110 (OP)
you can't but it's a moot point because acquiring and sharing CP is the exact reason 90% of tinkertrannies trying to build and use "a completely anonymous, uncensored, unmoderated, trustless network"
Anonymous No.106387513 >>106390377
>>106380120
interesting
Anonymous No.106387519 >>106387527
>>106387460
are you really going to say that? knowing full well what's going on in the EU and UK?
Anonymous No.106387527
>>106387519
yes.
Anonymous No.106387553 >>106387646
>>106387463
It's the core point of the anonymous decentralization concept, no?
If you have someone or something deciding what gets to go on your platform, you've reintroduced the same downsides as all the other centralized platforms.
It drastically reduces its utility to a few rare cases (for example political discussions regarding a country that has no ties to that of the maintainer).
Anonymous No.106387575
>>106387464
Kek
SmoothPorcupine No.106387646 >>106387725
>>106387553
>has no ties
Subject to auditing and watchdog organizations. Omission comes up as 'too trivial' in the natural complex of honestly recited tactic
Anonymous No.106387712 >>106387845
This is fundamentally retarded
>hey people of 4chan, a website that becomes more and more unusable by the day because of the increasing presence of retards who ruin it for everyone else and not nearly enough moderation to ban them all, how do we make a website with NO moderation?
The whole idea of an unmoderated place is based on the unbelievably retarded assumption that everyone who will participate isn't a community-ruining dumb piece of shit, and as this very website has made abundantly clear, all you need is one schizo/troll/asshole/etc to make everyone leave the thread they're in.
The ONLY solution to this problem is moderation.
If you want a free-speech community, you have to have leadership with a clear vision that is communicated clearly to its members, and clear rules for how said free speech should happen on the platform.
For example, I think the best of both worlds can be achieved by allowing full freedom of opinion, but only if communicated in a civilized good-faith manner.
In other words, you're not going to get banned for having "the wrong opinion", but you can be banned if you post like a deranged retard (even if it's the tamest most common opinion possible).
Buzzwords like cope/seethe/etc, wojaks, random insults, random baseless accusations (you're a tranny/jew/glowie/etc), spamming purposely dumb time-wasting questions, thread-derailing "pic unrelated" posts, etc. are all detrimental to the quality of the community and the discussions that happen in it, and heavy moderation is the only way to protect the platform from them.
Exactly as if the platform was a club IRL. If someone came in and started behaving like the typical 4channer, they would instantly be banned, because not banning them results in worse consequences than banning them (everyone else leaves and only the deranged retards are left, so you effectively ban the good people for the sake of the bad ones).
Anonymous No.106387725
>>106387646
Depends on the exact combination of countries.
An Iranian national might want to discuss their own government, which is unlikely to bring severe repercussions if they do so on, say, a Swiss website (provided that they connect to it through a VPN or Tor)
Anonymous No.106387845 >>106387943
>>106387712
moderation is fundamentally retarded.
adds an entire layer that can be abused/compromised.

just add filters, like 4chan and filter away the attention seeking retards/derailers. let them shout into the void while i can't see them.

since you can't post pictures anymore, it's far more difficult for them to get attention.
Anonymous No.106387943 >>106388025 >>106388112
>>106387845
Moderation has its downsides, but a lack of moderation is infinitely worse.
Filters can work for you as an individual if you don't want to see something in particular, but they don't work at a community-wide level because people don't want to spend 25% of their time on the site just muting random users, and even if they did, a small minority of deranged retards will inevitably shape the community into being more like them (the good people will just leave).
It's exactly what happened to 4chan, which has gotten unbearably worse entirely due to a demographic change, as the desirable users left and got replaced by the undesirables.

>pictures
Irrelevant.
Almost every time I make a good faith argument, I get schizos/retards/etc replying to me with their (possibly deliberate) time-wasting bullshit, which makes me want to post less and less.
15 years ago this was absolutely not the case, and I'd get sane intelligent responses a good portion of the time. Now it's almost impossible, and that's purely based on text.
What kind of filter prevents these subhumans from replying, while also attracting the intelligent people that don't even want to be on the website on the first place?
Anonymous No.106388025 >>106388039 >>106388237
>>106387943
i'm not sure why you can't see that moderation diminishes the entire thing. they can be paid to push an agenda without you ever knowing.

about the filters, sure new users need to be informed and it takes a while to get more comfortable content. if that is too much for a visitor, he should have never come. it's not reddit 2.0 that's being created.

the argument can be made that you are the troll here, pushing for things that will only destroy what we're talking about here.
Anonymous No.106388027 >>106388039
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=Jvo25iNy0ek&t=197
Anonymous No.106388039
>>106388025
>they can be paid to push an agenda without you ever knowing
Oh no, that thing anyone with the tiniest amount of Power inevitably ends up doing. Anyway...
>pushing for things that will only destroy what we're talking about here
See >>106388027. Fittingly, I set it to start at, "If your principles cause you to lose, your principles suck, get new principles."
Anonymous No.106388066 >>106388389
>>106380110 (OP)
You could make it text based
Anonymous No.106388112 >>106388138 >>106388246
>>106387943
You don't remember in some interview about 4chan moot said that barriers to entry drove away good posters because they had better things to do, while shitposters had nothing to do but shitpost and so they'd be willing to jump through all sorts of hoops? Then he implemented the captcha. "Only temporarily", he said and then sold the site to a guy who was probably selling data on the users of his last site. Now you get to deal with cuckflare + 4chan captcha, then wait ages to post anything. I think rather than an issue of moderation vs. no moderation the issue is one of moderation that cares vs. anything else. Moot stopped caring in the last few years he was here and Hiro has never cared. The few mods that did care have long since left. At this point you could replace 4chan's mods with bots and nothing would change. You could remove all moderation and there would be more spam, but it would just be an accurate reflection of the quality of the site. Why should anyone care about a site if the people responsible for it don't?
SmoothPorcupine No.106388138
>>106388112
They should care if they are willing to buy it.
Anonymous No.106388237 >>106388538
>>106388025
>moderation diminishes the entire thing
I do see that.
But I also see that a complete lack of moderation diminishes it far more, to the point of making it useless.
I have yet to see an unmoderated platform that didn't instantly turn into an unusable mess.
I can understand wanting a more laissez-faire moderation approach, but zero moderation is complete nonsense.

>sure new users need to be informed and it takes a while to get more comfortable content.
So your idea of a worthwhile site is to let the schizos/retards/trolls/etc run rampant and unhindered, and to just tell everyone "just block them every time you see them"?
You don't see how that's not a desirable experience for anyone who's not the aforementioned undesirable?
Anonymous No.106388246 >>106388331
>>106388112
First of all, Moot is a complete fuckhead and his opinion isn't worth referring to as some kind of authority on anything.

>barriers to entry drove away good posters because they had better things to do
The site was pretty good during a good portion of its captcha-ridden life (even during the unbearable "select the squares containing the motorcycle" years it was better than now), and the cloudflare annoyances are pretty recent and irrelevant.
The big loss of quality is a chain reaction that started with the 2015 presidential campaign, which brought a ton of attention to /pol/ and made every topic on every other board become hyperpoliticized, which made the people who just wanted to discuss their interests (instead of participate in the "culture war") want to leave.

Meanwhile, old-school forums (BBS and others) have infinitely more hoops than 4chan could ever have (registrations, often requiring email confirmation, reputation systems, paid subscriptions, etc) and the discussion quality is pretty much always higher than the shitposting party that is 4chan, specifically because of the moderation and the curation of the community (which obviously has downsides, but it works well at avoiding the problems we're talking about).

>Why should anyone care about a site if the people responsible for it don't?
Because it's desirable for them?
>just let the town library be overrun by hobos and crackheads; if the people responsible for it don't care, why should you?
What an absurd line of thinking.
Anonymous No.106388331 >>106388446
>>106388246
>First of all, Moot is a complete fuckhead and his opinion isn't worth referring to as some kind of authority on anything.
I don't disagree.
>The site was pretty good during a good portion of its captcha-ridden life
So do you think there's a point after the captcha was implemented that 4chan was better than pre-captcha or was it just "better than it is now" good?
>and the discussion quality is pretty much always higher than the shitposting party that is 4chan
Then why keep coming here?
>Because it's desirable for them?
It's desirable to an increasing minority who are drowned out by shitposters. They will stop caring eventually and either leave or just start shitposting themselves. Watching the people in charge of the library smoke crack with the hobos while you try to chase them off is incredibly demotivating.
Anonymous No.106388389 >>106388427 >>106396935
>>106388066
Media can be encoded as text.
Anonymous No.106388427 >>106388451 >>106388468
>>106388389
yea, but you can make that unreasonable to exploit real easy. one obvious thing is rate limiting. like with 4chan as it is you can only post 2,000 characters a minute, in base64 you can only post 1,500 bytes of data, so that's 25 bytes a second throughput, so of course nobody posts media using base64 here, it's impractical
Anonymous No.106388446 >>106388494
>>106388331
>So do you think there's a point after the captcha was implemented that 4chan was better than pre-captcha or was it just "better than it is now" good?
The latter.
The difference between pre-captcha post/community quality and post-captcha was small, and we certainly can't attribute the current state of 4chan to it.
Obviously there was a gradual decline over the years, but that started before the captcha and the trend continued pretty much unaltered until 2015, when it got drastically worse within one year.
I really don't think the captcha filtered more good posters than bad ones. The reduction in spam alone is a good argument of the opposite (someone who has things to do to the point of being deterred by a captcha is also very likely to be deterred by the rampant site-ruining spam that warranted the captcha in the first place).

>Then why keep coming here?
Every other place is just as bad or worse, in their own ways.
4chan is the only place that offers what I'm looking for, even if it's in an increasingly worse form.

>It's desirable to an increasing minority who are drowned out by shitposters. They will stop caring eventually and either leave or just start shitposting themselves. Watching the people in charge of the library smoke crack with the hobos while you try to chase them off is incredibly demotivating.
I fully agree. If you want to give up, that's understandable. I don't think it's completely unsalvageable. There's a number of things that can happen to improve the situation, from a change in approach on the moderation side (maybe Hiro or Good Smile notice that the place is heading towards complete ruin and decide to do something), or maybe someone makes a working alternative and the good posters migrate (unlikely but not impossible if done well), or the site gets sold to somebody who cares.
As long as we can still discuss the issue and its possible solutions, there's a nonzero chance that something wll be done.
Anonymous No.106388451
>>106388427
But can't you just use multiple clients to parallelize the process? This is supposed to be fully anonymous so you can't force one poster per machine.
Maybe something like proof of work to artificially limit the posters?
Anonymous No.106388468 >>106388495
>>106388427
See >>106387155
Anonymous No.106388490 >>106388502
>>106387461
That's the common defense used for piracy sites, which is never an open-shut case where you're exonerated of any responsibility and freed of any legal trouble.
Also, I'm pretty sure that if you made a site that willingly hosts links to csam (hosted on other sites) you'd get v& within hours and forced to give up all the info you have on the users who posted those links.
SmoothPorcupine No.106388494 >>106388565
>>106388446
Agree on the feasibility of continued action.

Personally, I would love to set up a decent platform. The main issue is literally just this:
>I would actually hate it
Without anyone agreeing to help deal with pornography, I would just end up disabling uploads while I'm asleep. We won't get anywhere if I have to keep features in an active on-or-off state.
Anonymous No.106388495 >>106388502 >>106388575
>>106388468
But would the URL's be that bad? I mean the site itself would still be pizza free. Every website is responsible for not hosting pizza themselves so it would at least be shifting the responsibility to rest of the web.
Anonymous No.106388502
>>106388495 (me)
>>106388490
Got my answer thanks.
Anonymous No.106388538 >>106388948
>>106388237
another option would be, and this already exists on /pol/ is simple ID's per thread, block the ID and you're done. maybe one step further is that you have the same ID for 24h, regardless of thread.

either way, moderation is out of the question.
Anonymous No.106388565 >>106388619
>>106388494
Exactly my concern.
If you want it to get any meaningful traction you need 24/7 moderation, which either requires significant funds, or a large group of like-minded volunteers (wich is its own can of worms).
And even then, it's a responsibility and an amount of stress that I wouldn't be willing to take if I'm not some rich life-of-leisure type with nothing to worry about, since a place like this can potentially cause problems that jeopardize everything else you have going on in life (for example by associating you to some type of "controversial" activity that happens on your website, which on a free-speech platform is basically unavoidable).

Full anonymity (something like Tor, or perhaps clearnet but with serious opsec) is also an option to shield yourself from anything that might happen, but it complicates things dramatically and likely hinders it from gaining a substantial enough userbase (especially with Tor).

Another option is to just develop the software and manifesto, and open-source it for others to handle, hoping that they'll stick to your vision and won't change it based on their own ideas (or that at least they have good ideas lol).
Anonymous No.106388575
>>106387461
that's basically the torrent tracker site problem. "torrent sites" like the pirate bay don't host any illegal content, they only provide enough metadata to search for and obtain identification strings that can be used to find someone else who has said content (specifically, "magnet links" only identify torrent metadata, they contain no part of the files "in" the torrent, and it's up to your client to use a tracker and/or DHT to find a peer that has the metadata identified by the string in the magnet link to download said metadata from, and consequently the data "in" the torrent). but if your site's all "hey you can get latest movie from here", then lawyers won't care about the technical details
>>106388495
basically you need to either host in a country that doesn't give a fuck, or have air-tight plausible deniability. if you run a forum obviously geared for sharing links to pizza, then expect to be hit like you're hosting it. ignorance is usually a poor defense. i'm not a lawyer nor would i want to share specific tips regarding this if i had any as i have no interest in it.
SmoothPorcupine No.106388619
>>106388565
>own can of worms
My limit on 'platform' is currently Tumblr. I can compete with a giant exactly the size of "their" platform, just not anything larger

Right now at least
Anonymous No.106388622 >>106392328
>>106380778
That's retarded, OP would still be hosting and distributing cheese pizza, good enough proof to close the server and fine OP a decent amount or even give him jail time
Anonymous No.106388716 >>106388765 >>106389104
I remembered an old idea of mine. LLM voice-changers for a text-only board.
The idea is that every post is rewritten by some AI. This way you can instruct AI to not allow for links or encoded media or whatever while also limiting the send rate with some proof of work (will explain this in a minute) and even prevent many ways to hide secret messages in the text since the sender cannot be sure the text will be sent the way they typed. This also enhances anonymity as the posters cant be distinguished by their choices of words etc.
Now, how do you make sure the posts have been "AI altered" without running expensive calculations for each message and deleting the originals? You make the client do most of the calculations. You distribute first n layers of the neural network and keep the rest of it a secret. When people post, they post the output of the half network they have, and you feed that output to the rest of the network you have. This also limits the posting rate by introducing work on the client's end.
The drawback is, this is not "completely" moderation free and it may even be used for very subtle types of moderation such as deliberately not relaying some opinions or ideas correctly. Changing few words here and there to create the illusion of people with certain ideas behave in a more aggressive, less logical way.
SmoothPorcupine No.106388765
>>106388716
Tone is a huge problem as you identify, but my reason for even sending this reply is: you can form efficient disproofs of The Matrix with a system like you mention.
Anonymous No.106388948 >>106388989
>>106388538
Looking at the state of /pol/ for more than 5 seconds should tell you how little that does.
If your platform reaches a big enough size to be worth using/maintaining, there will be so many users to deal with, and asking people to block every retard isn't going to result in a decent community.

>either way, moderation is out of the question
Enjoy dealing with the Internet equivalent of turning your swimming pool into a septic tank because you're ideologically brainwashed into thinking that every type of liquid should be allowed in, and that you can't ever clean the filth up because you risk getting too greedy and removing the things you want.
Anonymous No.106388989 >>106389152
>>106388948
who decides who moderates?
that person can be easily persuaded or forced to let the IDF or whatever in.

decentralized client, with a blockchain like system for text messages is the way forwarad. (yeah i know most of you don't like that word because of the propaganda fed to you).

i like anon's idea of having a llm change the original message, this just has to be open sourced so people can keep an eye on any unwanted manipulation.
Anonymous No.106389104 >>106389110
>>106388716
I thought of that as well, but with how easy it already is for misunderstandings to happen, I can't imagine that an AI rephrase of every post wouldn't become extremely tiresome after a while.
You're basically trusting that the AI correctly understands what you're saying and rephrases it in a way that is both true to your intentions AND will be understood correctly by your readers (you already mentioned tone, but there are also problems regarding context, cultural/subcultural elements that the AI may not know or consider, etc).

People already get annoyed at the few wordfilters here, I bet they would hate having to constantly correct the AI version.
One possible solution could be to show the rephrased version and letting the users approve it or remake it before it's sent. Perhaps you can even give them a field to add to the prompt (would probably be a security issue desu) so it's phrased correctly.
Honestly this sounds extremely annoying to me.

It's a fun gimmick (maybe for an april fools one-time thing), and the anonymity can be necessary in some types of highly illegal forums, but I can't see it being accepted and used at scale for a general forum.
Anonymous No.106389110 >>106389158 >>106390053
>>106389104
four noises.
four hosts.

which is the dog image legally?
Anonymous No.106389152 >>106389205
>>106388989
You seem to have some type of brain damage that prevents you from seeing that I have already agreed that moderation comes with the problems you keep talking about.
I just think that not moderating the platform at all makes the site unusable to the point of making it useless.

Show me one completely unmoderated platform that you can have worthwhile conversations in and isn't a complete cesspool.

>unwanted manipulation
As opposed to the wanted manipulation you create by biasing your userbase towards schizo retards, because everyone who's not that is going to steer clear of it?
Cool, you made a website that the IDF/glowies/whatever won't be able to censor, but also that will be pointless to censor because no one with a brain will use it.
Anonymous No.106389158
>>106389110
So ur with ur honey and yur making out wen the phone rigns. U anser it n the vioce is "wut r u doing wit my owner?" U tell ur girl n she say "my dog is ded". THEN WHO WAS PHONE?
Anonymous No.106389205 >>106389240
>>106389152
not sure you understand the reason of this thread. you want to create reddit 2.0, you simply aren't the audience.
Anonymous No.106389240 >>106389957
>>106389205
This thread is OP asking if something can be achieved, and getting a long list of reasons why it can't.
You keep ignoring all these reasons and going
>LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU I HATE MODS CESSPOOLS ARE THE FUTURE LALALALA
Anonymous No.106389957 >>106390071
>>106389240
>>LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU I HATE MODS CESSPOOLS ARE THE FUTURE LALALALA
The Founding "Fathers" penning the first amendment.
Anonymous No.106390053 >>106390762
>>106389110
The instructions to make them into a dog image is the dog image. If you don't keep a list of the noises and what they do it is completely legal to have 4 random noises.
Anonymous No.106390071 >>106390176
>>106389957
Kek
Anonymous No.106390111
>>106380110 (OP)
just range ban india
Anonymous No.106390134
>>106380418
That true at all look at twitter. People still post cp and drugged/sleeping rape videos daily. Nobody actually cares if they have globohomo backing
Anonymous No.106390176
>>106390071
I know, it seems funny on the surface, doesn't it?
Anonymous No.106390273 >>106390443
>>106381455
>You must give up your rights, because other people will abuse their rights
Holy shit you are mad. By that logic all porn and free association should be banned.
>I see no reason to support
In your delusional mind, not censoring people and controlling their actions is "supporting" them.
If you actually supported harm reduction there are a dozens better, PROVEN better, ways to reduce actual harm to actual people. Yet curiously you only sit here and support these black and white moral arguments.
Anonymous No.106390308 >>106390472
When you realize how antis think, it will blow your mind.
>1. someone gets wins of a teen
>2. posts them online
>3. girl is harassed irl by people at school
>OMG 1 and 2 are the problem, not 3 that's moral slut shaming
behavior
Anonymous No.106390377 >>106390400 >>106390402
>>106387513
This is just like that mike acton talk. All public debate, effort and policy on this topic is focused specifically on a subcategory of 3, and category 6 which makes up the minority of all kidnapping. So if you actually wanted to do about harm to children, in reality, you would put effort into the larger categories.
Anonymous No.106390400
>>106390377
Yeah but subcategory 3b is the big scary boogeyman to normies who live by their feelings.
Rape makes them angrier than extortion or even murder, so that's what matters.
Anonymous No.106390402
>>106390377
And I forgot to mention, just like modern programming. The shit people are pilling on to further abuse the compiler (which can only effect 10% of your data) are making the other 90% of your data harder to work with.
The more unequal a society gets the more the haves will be able to abuse the havenots and the more criminals will gain from crime.
Anonymous No.106390408 >>106390439 >>106393834
>>106380110 (OP)
>how can an uncensored network censor itself?
kys moron
Anonymous No.106390439 >>106390481
>>106390408
Pretty simply, just maintain a block list. Why would high quality bad actors keep making new accounts if they aren't getting constantly banned?
You still need an antispam system though.
Anonymous No.106390443 >>106390461
>>106390273
Access to someone's website was never a right.
Anonymous No.106390461 >>106390495 >>106390509 >>106390512 >>106393748
>>106390443
Is hosting your own site not a right? Let me guess access to the internet is not a right either, and that means you are allowed who gets to use it and why.
Anonymous No.106390472 >>106390509 >>106393924
>>106390308
>wins
I bet my entire net worth that you and anyone who uses this word has decades of prison time on their hard drive.
Anonymous No.106390481 >>106390509
>>106390439
>just maintain a block list.
that is not keeping the network clean like the OP suggested
you are just choosing to not see that stuff but its still there

to "keep it clean" means you must censor it, one way or another
and there is absolutely no way you can censor an uncensored network, or it's no longer uncensored.
it's a paradoxical statement
Anonymous No.106390495 >>106390509
>>106390461
This thread isn't about hosting a website (that's a different discussion with a different set of factors.
This is about managing your own online community.
Anonymous No.106390509 >>106390532 >>106390589 >>106390594
>>106390461
>you are allowed who gets to use it and why
you decide who gets to use it and why*
>>106390472
And the people who who harass the girls IRL? None. The parents that abuse her for "being stupid"? Applauded.
>>106390481
The practical effect is the same, add on some social credit system for government mainted blocklist and you can get your goodgoy points.
>>106390495
>A NETWORKED COMPUTER SYSTEM ISN'T NECESSARILY ABOUT HOSTING WEBSITES
ok bro. You made no point then.
Anonymous No.106390512 >>106390525 >>106390616
>>106390461
What is a right? Please explain it to me.
Anonymous No.106390525 >>106390653
>>106390512
I'm not going to explain basic political concepts to you when I use the standard definition. Sorry anon.
Anonymous No.106390532 >>106390571
>>106390509
>And the people who who harass the girls IRL? None. The parents that abuse her for "being stupid"? Applauded
Yes, they should be prosecuted too.
Why are you putting words into my mouth?
Also I like that you didn't deny that you're a pedophile, you're just saying that others are guilty too.
Anonymous No.106390571 >>106390628 >>106390628
>>106390532
You think if a girl uploads nudes to the internet then
1 Everybody who shares those nudes
2 Everybody who harass the girl because of those nudes
3 And her parents who neglect or abuse her
Should all be prosecuted by the government, rather than just improving the culture around sex? why? To whose benefit?

>You didn't deny you are a pedophile
I don't! Do you deny that you are a faggot?
Anonymous No.106390589 >>106390621
>>106390509
>NETWORKED COMPUTER SYSTEM ISN'T NECESSARILY ABOUT HOSTING WEBSITES
You're drawing a parallel between two similar things so you can pretend that the properties of one (which you're trying to discuss) apply to the other (they don't).
The thread is about managing an anonymous community and the dilemma of trying to remove undesired content while maintaining anonymity and lack of moderation by design.
You're talking about rights, which is a matter that pertains countries' decisions on what is legally allowed to host, and has nothing to do with a person's decisions in designing a website.

TL;DR:
You're unbelievably fucking stupid. Stop talking to me until you learn to avoid confusing yourself with simple fallacies.
Anonymous No.106390594 >>106390658
>>106390509
>The practical effect is the same, add on some social credit system for government mainted blocklist and you can get your goodgoy points.
that's just censoring with extra steps
Anonymous No.106390616 >>106401757
>>106390512
A LARP invented by the so-called "Enlightenment" to convince the plebs that they have any comparable standing to the Authority.
Anonymous No.106390621 >>106390671
>>106390589
Literally any network design you pick will have winners and losers, you are the retard here pretending that the network doesn't affect the community which BTW isn't the even the topic of the thread. The thread is about systems like freenet. This is /g/ not /pol/
Anonymous No.106390628 >>106390658 >>106391574
>>106390571
>Should all be prosecuted by the government
Besides tge parents, yes.

>>106390571
>rather than
It's not either/or you dumb pedophile.
Your entire position isn't a conclusion you reached because it's the most logical, but is what you tell yourself to justify your sexual deviancy.
If you weren't a pedophile you wouldn't have these conveniently pro-pedo and anti-everyone-else views.

You're as intellectually bankrupt as you are morally bankrupt.
Anonymous No.106390653 >>106390669
>>106390525
You obviously don't understand what a right is because you keep talking about it as if it's something intrinsic to humans.
A right is merely what the laws of your government decide to give you the freedom to do.
You never had the right to full freedom of speech, press, etc. there were always limits.
Anonymous No.106390658 >>106390709
>>106390594
Depends what the goodgoy points get you. If it's a lambo or tickets to sportball game then freethinkers won't care.
>>106390628
You are a mentally-ill, mentally-repressed christ cultist, you should have killed yourself with your cult leader 2000 years ago. You don't care about reducing harm, you care about punishing behavior you think is "deviant".
Anonymous No.106390669 >>106390685
>>106390653
If you can do it, how is it not intrinsic? What is stopping you other than other people? You can voluntarily restrict your rights for the benefit of all, but you aren't giving them up.
Anonymous No.106390671
>>106390621
And how does that have anything to do with legal rights?
Explain to me how, when designing a system like Freenet, having moderation is "taking away someone's rights".
Anonymous No.106390676
>>106380379
you are right but you won't win this argument. nobody cares about some creep who goons to murder videos.
Anonymous No.106390685 >>106390704 >>106390761
>>106390669
I can stab you in the chest. Does that mean that stabbing people in the chest is an intrinsic human right?
You're a legitimately mentally handicapped subhuman.
Anonymous No.106390689 >>106390710
The christ death cultist believes this is sustainable.
Anonymous No.106390704 >>106390732
>>106390685
Yes. Obviously.
You're the one who can't understand simple definitions and needs it explained over and over again.
Anonymous No.106390709 >>106390761
>>106390658
>everyone who dislikes pedophilia is simply a mentally-ill, mentally-repressed christ cultist, and those who want to fuck kids are the normal ones
>source: the opinion of someone who wants to fuck kids
Lmao
Anonymous No.106390710 >>106390761
>>106390689
Rookie numbers, knowing how many criminals are still walking.
Anonymous No.106390712 >>106390818
>>106380110 (OP)
No images, no video, no audio. Only text and text files allowed. Just as god intended
Anonymous No.106390732 >>106390761
>>106390704
Give me one country that recognize the right to stab people in the chest.
Anonymous No.106390761 >>106390787 >>106390818
>>106390685
>>106390709
>>106390710
It's very telling that you have to equate stabbing someone in the chest to sharing nudes. You believe that any amount of harm is unacceptable, but you fail to notice that when blanket banning something that just isn't that harmful globally, creates more harm on average.
You essentially got scammed by christtards into into a bill that bans 99% normal sexual human behavior and 1% the stuff you were actually trying to ban. Which then pushed 1:99 people into underground black market dealings.
>>106390732
All countries, as they all have laws against it.
Anonymous No.106390762 >>106393660
>>106390053
the instructions would basically just be 4 hashes in some kind of link. akin to a magnet link. is a magnet link (to a dog image torrent) the dog image?
Anonymous No.106390787 >>106390840
>>106390761
>equate
Imagine not understanding what an analogy is.
Truly a sub-60 IQ moment.

>All countries, as they all have laws against it.
Ah yes, all countries having laws against something means it's a human right.
Anonymous No.106390818 >>106390840
>>106390761
>you have to equate stabbing someone in the chest to sharing nudes
When did I (>>106390712) say that?
>You essentially got scammed by christtards
When?
Anonymous No.106390840 >>106390910 >>106390920
>>106390787
>sub 60 iq
>doesn't understand the definition of right
>keeps arguing over defintions
>has no point
You haven't said a meaningful thing in your last 5 posts other that you disagree with the standard definition of rights, likely because you watch too much news were people use "rights" as a shorthand for "This right I have should be less restricted"
>>106390818
When you decided that cp should be illegal and that any sexual or nude image of a child constitutes cp.
Anonymous No.106390910
>>106390840
The issue here is that you started talking about giving up rights in a discussion about moderation in online platforms, which is retarded and no one who even remotely understands what rights are would ever say something this dumb.
Anonymous No.106390920 >>106391002
>>106390840
>When you decided that cp should be illegal
I wasn't there when that was decided, but it's still a good thing that common sense prevailed.
>any sexual or nude image of a child constitutes cp
"Who decided that everything made of wood has to come from cutting down trees?!"
Anonymous No.106391002 >>106391125
>>106390920
I'm not arguing with you. I'm informing you that these laws do more harm than good. If you geniunely believe that everything sexualized image of a child causes harm, and not only that, but more harm than is done by the existence, enforcement and culture these laws perpetuate then you both fell for the scam. I hope you come to your senses soon enough.
Anonymous No.106391125 >>106391299
>>106391002
>I'm not arguing with you
>I'm informing you
Neat trick. Won't work on me, though.
>If you geniunely [sic] believe that everything [sic] sexualized image of a child causes harm
"Ethical child porn" doesn't exist, Vaush.
>and not only that, but more harm than is done by the existence, enforcement and culture these laws perpetuate
Yes, legally permitting child exploitation for profit causes more harm than prohibiting it. I'd argue the same for adult exploitation, the kind we euphemistically call "adult films;" but you know, they "know what they're doing," allegedly...
Anonymous No.106391299 >>106391341
>>106391125
I'm no commie freak. I believe child porn stars should be paid a FAIR WAGE. I want jews licking their soles for two pence for the privilege of handling the production work.
Anonymous No.106391341
>>106391299
>I'm no commie freak.
>I believe child porn stars should be paid a FAIR WAGE.
Pick one.
Anonymous No.106391516
>>106386557
They are legal in the US and most of Europe.
Anonymous No.106391574 >>106391693 >>106392015
>>106390628
Nta, but if some underaged girl uploaded her own content willingly for all to see why should other people get prosecuted for it? What a stupid logic that is
Anonymous No.106391693
>>106391574
because we've decided that children cannot make their own binding decisions, that's why age of majority and age of consent exist.
I'm not sure I even disagree with that. but the amount of hysteria involved in this issue is absurd, and that's why a significant number of people believe in thoughtcrime when it comes to children
Anonymous No.106392015 >>106392151
>>106391574
If the kid uploads a video they made and the police gets notified, nothing needs to happen other than the police letting the parents know so they can better raise their child.
If the video starts to spread, then the people spreading it should be prosecuted because they're violating the law, and it's a law I agree with, since it harms the kid, even if the kid might be too stupid/naive to realize that having porn of you circulating on the internet and among your peers is an extremely regrettable choice.
Imagine if it were legal to distribute child porn that the child uploaded, and you had a video of you jacking off just sitting on a bunch of websites (some with your real name, which means it's gonna pop up when your friends/family/employers/etc google you) with thousands of people watching it... All because nobody stopped you from making a mistake like that when you were too young to understand why it's stupid.

This applies to everything else as well... We don't let kids make decisions that can negatively impact them, so it's good to legally prevent adults from taking advantage of the situations in which that happens.
Anonymous No.106392151 >>106392172 >>106393687 >>106403411
>>106392015
>This applies to everything else as well... We don't let kids make decisions that can negatively impact them
This is irrelevant, if kids commit crime why should (unrelated) adults suffer for it? Some underaged person uploads a naked vid, nothing happens to uploader, some underaged person shoplifts or assaults somebody yet nothing will happen to them? So what if kids aren't legally allowed to make decisions, the fact is that they are making those decisions and unrelated people suffer for it.
Anonymous No.106392172
>>106392151
>unrelated
If they're sharing it they're no longer unrelated. They're actively participating in the crime.
Anonymous No.106392328
>>106388622
It's almost as if the Dutch were correct that you can't have a republic AND make simple possession of cp illegal.
Anonymous No.106393660
>>106390762
The link is more dog image than the 4 noises. Without it, there is no recreating the dog image, there is only noise.
And yes torrent links to illegal things are also illegal.
Anonymous No.106393687 >>106393979
>>106392151
If I am selling cigarettes and alcohol to a child why am I suffering as an (unrelated) adult?
Anonymous No.106393724
>>106380379
Because I don't want to go to jail for uploading stuff to someone else's computer even if it's an automated part of the system and I don't really have a complete illegal image on my machine.
Anonymous No.106393748 >>106393866
>>106390461
Here was the derail point. Fact is people are actively trying to decide if this might be something we want to be true, and my reason for knowing the outcome doesn't require time travel or high-level expert predictions
Anonymous No.106393834
>>106390408
Yeah, you won this thread anon. There is a strict contradiction here. OP is confused over whether logistics or ethics makes more sense.

Censorship through physical restrictions is worse than just deleting the morally conscionable pictures. You need a whole criminalization architecture with insipid assholes who evict people and generally ruin lives. Anyone could repeat each mistake which led to this thread if we keep acting like retards.

How to kill one more cop in your head:
>oh, it was contradictory
>wait, which part did I...
Dogpiles describe all use of collective action. Solidarity on defending children leads to asinine parents who let children use suicide engines which definitely lack a conscience.
Anonymous No.106393866
>>106393748
Let me guess you are the kind of person who wants every public place to have camera and you don't care if people then choose to stay in the homes. Congrats you "solved the problem" of people doing things you don't like. Oh wait no you haven't now they are doing things in their homes that you don't like. I know lets just kill everyone and when we get to heaven all will be well.
Death cult
Anonymous No.106393924 >>106394072
>>106390472
this is the first time i've seen win being used in this way, dare i ask what it means?
Anonymous No.106393937 >>106394643 >>106395826
I challenge you /g/. Make a system that doesn't punish any particular identity (paraphiles, pedophiles, hebephiles, masochists, sadists, transgender) or group of people. While also protecting people (not only children) from harm.
Submit any designs in a new thread with the name : Challenge submission
Anonymous No.106393979 >>106394095 >>106394628
>>106393687
how is that equivalent?

>you saw a kid smoke. he stole them and you only saw it, but you're going to jail
Anonymous No.106394002 >>106404022
I think the real issue that everyone seems to glossing over is
>How can I make sure I'm not vanned for running any website
That should be what this exercise is about.
Regardless of if anyone posts pizza or not, similar to infinity chan if someone posts their manifesto or anything that might trigger any of the other infinity reasons why a government would try to get you shut down. If you even talk about sending the wrong coin to others your website could get shut down and you'll become dred pirate Roberts 2.0

Anything that has to do with any form of freedom will eventually have some government try to take you down, even if you're the gayest faggiest moralists like Kiwifarms.
Solve that issue first before you worry about what other people are uploading
Anonymous No.106394043 >>106394074 >>106394142
>>106380110 (OP)
just don't allow any kind of media, so no images, video or audio?
or make scans part of the system.
Anonymous No.106394072 >>106394093
>>106393924
It's when they're successful in getting a minor to show themselves in a less-than-legal way.
Anonymous No.106394074
>>106394043
that's just punishing the many for the sins of the few
Anonymous No.106394093 >>106394131
>>106394072
i see, is this a young person's term or a pedo term? like who uses this?
Anonymous No.106394095 >>106394115
>>106393979
>selling cigarettes to a child means seeing a child steal cigarettes
Lmao what?
Anonymous No.106394115 >>106394162
>>106394095
anon...
Anonymous No.106394131
>>106394093
It's a pedo term

t. former /b/tard
Anonymous No.106394142 >>106394228 >>106394294
>>106394043
>Someone posts text about a dox of someone else
>You go to jail
>Someone posts their grievance about some chink flu
>You go to jail for hosting a website that spreads misinformation
>Admin changes. Someone says Nigger. Or be a Britbong, uses your website, he talks about how he hates pakies
>You go to jail for hate speech / Uk Government tries to shut you down for hosting hate speech

Stop looking at
>JUST MAKE SURE IT'S LEGAL
And assume everything anyone posts including your post and this post is already "illegal"
Anonymous No.106394162
>>106394115
Every one of your arguments is a strawman.
We've already established that punishing those who distribute child pornography (even that which was made by the children themselves) is a good thing.
You don't need to play these semantics games to try and convince us that the people who share those videos are essentially unrelated bystanders.
Anonymous No.106394228 >>106394294 >>106394554
>>106394142
i'm sure 4chan's policies of "don't post anything illegal in the US" and "all posts are owned by the respective poster" goes a long way. like you can't appear to facilitate illegal activity. you're not going to practically stop it entirely, but it'll help to have an active system to reduce it
Anonymous No.106394250
Blanket banning is dumb, I think lawmakers are ignoring there civic responsibility by just trying to sweep all of this sex stuff under the rug.
A radfem would argue that all sex is harmful to women. The real question is are we giving up more than we would gain if we choose not to regulate it.
Anonymous No.106394294
>>106394142
>>106394228
Kek this is retarded. On tor the general rule is.
If the admin thinks something is harmful he removes it, or If the admin and mods as a group decide something is harmful then it's removed.
The law has hundreds of years of cruft piled high, sure you could argue in theory that it's more wise. But in practice it's selectively enforced and the meaning of harm on the internet vs real life is for the most part different.
Anonymous No.106394323
>>106381687
Basically this.
The groups of people that seek the platforms with ultimate freedom of speech are all the people that got removed from other social media - be it for good or bad reasons. You cannot create platform that champions itself as free from censorship and moderation without attracting this kind of people.
There's also issue of legality - depending on where your servers are, you may be taking full responsibility for what people are posting on them.
>p2p decentralized bullshit on blockchains!
An unreliable meme with limited reach, don't bother.
Anonymous No.106394360 >>106394502
>>106381687
Weird? Every free speech space I'm in is either pro-MAP and very leftwing. Where are you guys going that has right wing pedos? How is that even a thing, like right wing gays? aren't they all in the closet?
Anonymous No.106394377
>>106380110 (OP)
>How could a completely anonymous, uncensored, unmoderated, trustless network protect itself against pizza and other abuse, keeping it clean.
you can't
Anonymous No.106394417
>>106380120
good morning saar
Anonymous No.106394502
>>106394360
That was a list of possible undesirables, not a list of undesirable characteristics that are all stacked into one ultimate bannable type of human
Anonymous No.106394554
>>106394228
4chan has had tons of legal trouble in the past and constantly gets sent cease and assists, the only reason it's still up is because it's a glowie asset
Anonymous No.106394628 >>106394740 >>106394777
>>106393979
>how is that equivalent?
Ok, here is a breakdown:

Child consuming alcohol -> Child getting their nudes online
These are equivalent as they both potentially harm the child.

Selling the child alcohol -> Providing the child with a platform where they can share their nudes
These are equivalent as they allow the child to take the action that will harm them.
>So every platform is bad?
No, not every platform or every store is bad. You can sell alcohol to adults and sell snacks to children, just like you can allow children to post their worthless opinions or let adults upload nudes. The problem only occurs if you let children buy alcohol/upload nudes.

Just interacting with the illegal media without hosting or creating it -> ?
This part is not covered in my previous post. Because alcohol consumption can be a solo activity. But sharing imagery requires a subject to view the imagery. No one uploads or hosts pictures to share if there is no intended audience.
This could be akin to encouragement but it is much more influential. This is creating demand.

All parties listed in the crime are related to the crime. They interact with the child and enable the child to harm themselves.
I hope I made myself clearer this time.
SmoothPorcupine No.106394643 >>106394715
>>106393937
Alright, now how are you paying me for access?
Anonymous No.106394715 >>106394772 >>106395015
>>106394643
High level design, not an implementation
Anonymous No.106394740 >>106399794
>>106394628
>viewing
>This could be akin to encouragement but it is much more influential. This is creating demand.
I click on a random 4chan thread and read through it, without replying. Will me simply viewing the thread inspire the poster of the thread to make more of the same kind of thread?
SmoothPorcupine No.106394772
>>106394715
Answer my question or public safety will force me to accuse
Anonymous No.106394777 >>106395375 >>106399844
>>106394628
My problem with you is that you redefine harm to suit your political goals.
>children should be sold snacks
Obesity affects 20% of children (~15 million) and kills which will lead to all sorts of harm later in life. Yet you curiously not only don't seem to care, but actively encourage it while denigrating children who want to watch/post porn or drink alcohol.
Everything has harms. Leave it to each person to decide if the harm is worth it.
Anonymous No.106394988
And leave it to the government to create sustainable ways of minimizing that harm. Neverending paid enforcement forever vs early sex ed, prempting porn, sexting and paraphillias.
Never-ending road maintenance, healthcare bills, insurance, agra subsidies vs public transportation, bike and foot paths, eating whole foods and meals.
Instead of buying drugs from a gang affiliate you can buy that from a store. Why do you think it's acceptable to ban children from buying drugs at a store when we know that the direct outcome is they (at least 5% of them, low estimate) either commit a crime (theft or fake id) or make connections to organized crime? Also? it's not even true, there are plenty of drugs you can buy at a store less kids do them because get this THEY ARE MORE HARMFUL for a worse high.
SmoothPorcupine No.106395015 >>106395163
>>106394715
I waited 20 minutes, you can enter the archives if you need restorative debate. Try to keep from sliding please, the public is mighty fragile.
Anonymous No.106395163 >>106395219
>>106395015
I don't speak schizophrenia. Monetize your site how you see fit. I pay for goods and services that bring real value to my life. Since you clearly have no design you have no way of getting a cent out of me.
SmoothPorcupine No.106395219 >>106395253
>>106395163
You assumed. I don't owe you anything. Take your shitty attitude anywhere else in the world. Here there are people willing to have an honest discussion of public safety
Anonymous No.106395253
>>106395219
You are retarded if you think both your schizophrenia posting is helpful or that you can make a system that isn't designed around capitalism
SmoothPorcupine No.106395359
I really wish it could make sense for everyone seeing this thread across decades to have a reasonable solution which can effectively help others understand safety issues.

Oh. I can just delete any post which was counterproductive and keep the quality from degrading. Which is free for now
Anonymous No.106395375
>>106394777
Not him but the difference is that snacks are only harmful when eaten excessively over many years, while alcohol and nicotine can be very damaging pretty damaging even from a single use (one cigarette is enough to cause addiction and drinking too much at once van literally kill you).
Pornography, gambling, etc are also other vices that cause severe behavioral changes to the point where pretty much everyone agrees that they're not good for adults either, but adults are allowed to ruin their own lives because they (in theory) have enough agency to make that choice.
Kids DEFINITELY don't have that ability, which is why they're not allowed to participate in any of these vices.

Hyperpalatable ultraprocessed food is also harmful, and I wouldn't be against some type of government intervention on the matter, but the difference is that snacks aren't really going to cause obesity. It's the dietary habits over time that do. Obese kids are pretty much always eating like pigs (both quantity and quality) on every meal PLUS the snacks.
Skinny kids eat snacks too (I've always been the skinniest of my friends and ate snacks every day but it wasn't enough to get me fat because I only ate one at a time and my parents gave me sensible foods and portions for my meals).
The key difference here is that snacks by themselves can be a positive thing in moderation (they bring kids joy with negligible harm unless abused), while the aforementioned vices are destructive forces where there's no such thing as moderate safe use.

But yeah, the harm of obesity in general (whether it cones from snacks, fast food, soda, etc) is a form of child abuse, and IMO parents should at least be forced to sit through a nutrition course if their child is obese.
Anonymous No.106395410 >>106395423 >>106395542
>>106380379
Is it bad that I don't actually care that much about pedophiles existing or exploiting minors?
It's not that I think it's acceptable behavior. I think that people who abuse children should be arrested so they don't do that anymore. But I have no emotional response to it.
What does make me angry and afraid is the government making everyone's life worse and destroying privacy and freedom in a crusade against it. I think that does a much greater amount of harm to a much larger number of people. I find that morally unconscionable even compared to doing nothing at all.
Anonymous No.106395423 >>106395442
>>106395410
The day you have kids your views will change
Anonymous No.106395442 >>106395612
>>106395423
Why would I be afraid of pedophiles abusing my kids? It's extremely unlikely. Most child abuses are perpetrated by family members.
And I wouldn't be retarded enough to think that zogging the internet would make them safe.
Anonymous No.106395483
>would be really cool if I could help
>sadly namefags are the group the site rules force me to dismiss as human
>heck "people willing to use a name in a public space" really is not even a group

Please let me know if anyone has feelings like this, I can somehow take values out of a form to win an argument.
Anonymous No.106395519
>>106380142
yes. this is why posession of pizza needs to be decriminalized. production or paying for it needs to result in execution
SmoothPorcupine No.106395542
>>106395410
>afraid
You have one vote, is it not enough? Are there concepts you feel need greater attention than finite administrations can sponsor? How would you like this concern alleviated if you could talk to anyone for 15 minutes?
Anonymous No.106395612 >>106395679
>>106395442
It's not about your specific kids. It's about caring for kids in general.
I know it's more emotional than logical, but there's a reason we evolved to have these instincts (it's not just to pass our genes, since we feel that towards other kids and really any being with neotenic features). It's because kids are defenseless and need to be protected, not only for their good, but fir the good of society as a whole, since those kids will eventually become adults, and the more fucked up kids there are, the more fucked up adults there will be, and consequently the more fucked up our society becomes.

I agree that you can't turn the Internet into a panopticon where every byte has to be decrypted and scanned for csam, but the other extreme of allowing any harm to children to happen unpunished is also not a reasonable solution.
There has to be a threshold somewhere in the middle, and where you put that is pretty much entirely subjective.
SmoothPorcupine No.106395679
>>106395612
>panopticon
Really not necessary. /g/ has an option to report embedded files, which is a hard technical cutoff point re: every byte
Anonymous No.106395709
>>106380110 (OP)
it can't. embrace tech-feudalism and connect to your local lord-moderator
Anonymous No.106395718
>>106386547
You can probably write a spam filter that blocks base64 images entirely.
Anonymous No.106395782
>>106380110 (OP)
>Just run a good local AI client, ala deepseek.
>It scans for the naughty photos and quarantines it.
We know they have the technology to do this, as current AI censors the naughty photos all the time.
Could be a genuine usecase for AI and a panacea for illegal photo spam.
Anonymous No.106395826 >>106395935
>>106393937
Apparently you don't speak honest or consistent challenges, since anyone reading the archive sees how you throw the whole category of mental health issues under the bus when provoked
Anonymous No.106395935 >>106396039
>>106395826
Put your name back on faggot, so you admit that you are intentionally acting in bad faith
Anonymous No.106396039 >>106396057
>>106395935
Yeah I expected this. Steelmanning everyone I have to count five people.
>1
Challenge poster
>2
namefag
>3
Anon different from #1, since they obviously left after posting with a bizarre fixation for not making a thread themselves.
Here we can say the first point is disconnected from any accusation since everyone is anonymous, and the replier just wanted shitty discussion out of an (entirely understandable) hate for all namefags.
>4
Guess.
>5
>me

I don't care. Feel free to harass anyone from staff over anyone who was or is not someone else, I felt like shoving "provoke" there to bait everyone's '>projecting' reflex. You have to admit #3 made an assumption or take the chance at backing out like the faggot I can believe you are.

Remember, nobody started it if none of us exist anyway.
Anonymous No.106396057
>>106396039
You are the only ESL in the thread (surprisingly). It's plainly obvious that it's you.
Anonymous No.106396125 >>106396231
>>106380379
ai slop variants ruined what used to be one of the best boorus
in fact I see the writing on the wall that it is going to be the very death of it in the not too distant future
Anonymous No.106396174 >>106397835
>>106386547
what if you
>write up a message declaring your intent to do something not very legal
>along the lines of ted
>name specific big name people in it
>sprinkle concrete threats
>take the binary encoding of the text and turn it into a base10 number for good measure

is this resulting number (which would not be prohibitively big unlike images or video) illegal to name?
SmoothPorcupine No.106396231 >>106396249
>>106396125
I technically consider sloppification a worse problem than loli. Defending privacy is a long term thing I really can't do anything about today, but helping get a solid booru to a prior quality threshold is easy enough with a minimally dedicated effort
Anonymous No.106396249 >>106396412
>>106396231
the problem is that booru has both of them at once
and the worst kind of both of them too
the site is completely unusable without huge filters and blacklists
SmoothPorcupine No.106396412
>>106396249
We kind of need a whole different topic for this but the solution is pretty simple. Generative imagery is literally worth less than genuine art since you can regenerate it later. There are compression techniques to develop which cut down on hosting/storage cost if we really need it purged to a new booru.
Anonymous No.106396489
>>106380379
in Deuteronomy, murder and rape incur capital punishment.
Anonymous No.106396935 >>106398308
>>106388389
But like how? A random cypher or something isn't going to get you v&'d I don't think
Anonymous No.106397120 >>106397190
The only solution is gatekept communities. You simply cannot open the floodgates for spammers, retards, and third worlders to bumrush your living room where you were discussing a topic with your friends.
Anonymous No.106397190 >>106397284
>>106397120
>The only solution is gatekept communities
That would still inevitably invoke censorship. Not saying that's a bad thing, just letting you know...
Anonymous No.106397284
>>106397190
True, when you're with one friend group certain topics may be taboo. But you can simply discuss those topics with a separate group. You can have as many as you want and you can leave or join freely.
Anonymous No.106397320 >>106397469 >>106397592
Is it censorship when I get warned for posting ponies in a /v/ thread? Or is that just an attempt at segregation of discussions? I don't really have a problem with the latter. You can claim that's not 100% unmoderated free speech but the alternative is anarchy. What was wrong with 8ch's model where if you thought the mods on one board were faggots you could just make your own board?
Anonymous No.106397469 >>106397506
>>106397320
>Is it censorship when I get warned for posting ponies in a /v/ thread? Or is that just an attempt at segregation of discussions?
Yes. Stop seeing "censorship" as a dirty word, everyone with a modicum of Power ends up controlling what gets said within whatever sphere is subject to his influence.
Anonymous No.106397506
>>106397469
So what's the goal here? Obviously totalitarian censorship is undesirable but so is having a board full of retarded unmitigated spam and low quality posts. Are we looking for a minimum acceptable censorship threshold?
Anonymous No.106397592 >>106397606
>>106397320
Anarchy just means you can outsource the censorship to whoever you choose.
Anonymous No.106397606
>>106397592
In Wild West Usenet times there would be actual .moderated boards run by self-appointed community mods, and if you didn't like them you could just write a bunch of post filters for the main board yourself. Worked fine.
SmoothPorcupine No.106397633
The "living room" argument actually threw me pretty hard. Everyone sane wants the children safety in bed at night, and any adult will understand throwing a punch over the dumbest fucking opinion you've heard in months. I don't feel like this gets anywhere, child abuse is gonna happen regardless of anything we say here.

Which makes me question the value of our opinions, and how rights are affected.

Would you rather have free speech, or your current philosophical opinion? Say in the latter case, everyone has a couple months to choose, and a worker goes around to collect everyone's official opinion. It will be categorized and stored in an appropriate medium, where your opinion is yours and nobody controls it except you. It isn't possible to speak for anyone else since we each just get one opinion, however much this is worth and in whatever ways we all agree to have access.

Do you assign more value to your opinion, or the right of free expression? Which is the better way to represent you if there were some great conflict forcing us to choose just one?
Anonymous No.106397835
>>106396174
Technically yes but nobody is going to arrest you for writing pi.
Anonymous No.106397861
>>106380379
Because then the government is going to get involved.
Anonymous No.106397872
>>106385606
They do it to prevent "abuse" of the API so you can't try and use it as an oracle if x is csam. It's blatantly retarded though because it basically makes it impossible to actually use it as a service unless you're gigacorp.
Anonymous No.106398084 >>106398285
You know actually, I've decided freenet is okay. Give me 95% dog, it doesn't matter anymore. Just try to keep your illegal content to an absolute minimum, if you don't have more than 1.47% of a child's eyebrow in the photo we won't really notice.

It's literally just ratio right? To keep it from getting instantly filled you just have to push something different from what you're trying to drown out
Anonymous No.106398285
>>106398084
imo avoid all noise dogs, but the legal question IS hard to answer.
Anonymous No.106398308
>>106396935
never saw them turn the screws unjustly. why? the actal legal basis is flimsy (because as usual congress doesnt update laws for the 20th). no da wants to be the one that got cp made legal by being overzealous.
Anonymous No.106398491
β–Ό
Anonymous No.106399033
>>106380110 (OP)
Stock images/videos only. No personal uploads.
Anonymous No.106399477 >>106401717
This thread is the perfect example of the unquestionable need for moderation in any community.

Having a decentralized anonymous and unmoderated network/platform/service is the same as making a new country with no government, no personal documents, no laws, and no law enforcement.
Who do you think is going to be interested in a place like this, and who do you think is going to stay away from it?

There's no way that someone with a functioning brain doesn't find this immediately obvious.
Anonymous No.106399794
>>106394740
You use 4chan with many others and that is why 4chan exists. If there were no one reading any threads, no threads would be made. The encouragement comes from many people in case of 4chan so your lurk of one thread is a very very small influence, but it is still influence.
Anonymous No.106399844 >>106400123
>>106394777
A moderate amount of snacks is not harmful, while any amount of child abuse is harmful.
You have a point tho, we should be protecting children from obesity as well.
>Leave it to each person to decide if the harm is worth it
The main point is that the "person" in question is a child and they can't make good decisions. Especially when they are being persuaded by adults. I do not believe children are producing illegal imagery just for fun by themselves. There is definitely some adult involved in the process whether they persuade, encourage or force the child to post the images.
Anonymous No.106400123 >>106400217 >>106400296
>>106399844
>I do not believe children are producing illegal imagery just for fun by themselves. There is definitely some adult involved in the process whether they persuade, encourage or force the child to post the images
You'd be surprised at how much adult material unsupervised kids are exposed to on the internet. Even in SFW unrestricted entertainment on YouTube/TikTok, so many e-celebs do "collabs" with pornstars (jake and logan paul come to mind).
Modern society portrays porn as a very positive thing and kids who don't know any better will just emulate what they see.
As far as I know most revenge porn cases involving minors are videos they made with each other.

This isn't even new. Even when I was a kid I had female classmates who would take lewd pictures on their flip phones, and before that, it wasn't unusual to see kids with 1-bit nudes on their 3310s (which they had to buy with a retardedly expensive sms lol).

You can argue here that they're being indirectly persuaded/encouraged by the adults that are contributing to this society-wide phenomenon, but they definitely don't need a specific adult doing it directly to them.

Vid related:
https://youtu.be/XIJmYc5ZQ3M
Anonymous No.106400172
>>106380120
Okay, South Africa, what do you propose then?
Anonymous No.106400217 >>106400373
>>106400123
>You'd be surprised at how much adult material unsupervised kids are exposed to on the internet
Interesting. And let me guess, any attempt at all to remedy this would amount to "tyranny," correct?
Anonymous No.106400296 >>106400384 >>106401874
>>106400123
And your suggestion is to decriminalize the hosting and viewing of this content? How does that fix the problem?
Your classmates take those pictures to share with adults?
Do adults get unsolicited nudes from children, is that the problem we are discussing?
If a child is taking their pictures and sharing them with other children over private channels that is also a problem but a much harder to solve one. If they are sending the pictures to an adult then I argue that accepting the pictures instead of disciplining the child is encouragement.
Our topic in this thread is to stop pedos from posting pizza freely on an unmoderated network and is it wrong that someone is hosting/viewing such content.
An unrelated adult is not committing a crime when a child takes their own pictures. The adult becomes related when they interact with the picture.
Anonymous No.106400347
Personally, I'm in favor of prosecuting minors who distribute their own "home-made" pornography.
>b-but they didn't know it was---
Great way to learn, then.
Anonymous No.106400373 >>106400401
>>106400217
According to /g/, yes.
IMO, we can certainly do more to reduce the problem before we reach the point where we're subjugating everyone.
For example we can have laws that prohibit the promotion of porn, the same way there are laws against the promotion of gambling, tobacco, etc.
That would at least drastically reduce the presence of porn-related and porn-adjacent things in the "kid zeitgeist".
Making it illegal for all porn/sex workers to appear in content that kids watch (and we can work on defining that, but at the very least the OnlyFans girls promoting their content with barely SFW Twitch streams and TikTok memes in which they look as sexy as possible, needs to stop).
Basically pornstars are essentially their own brands and need to be treated as equivalent to a smaller version of Brazzers and other porn brands that aren't based on a specific person.
This would pretty much only affect the adult industry and the rest of us would only see less porn-related things in our day-to-day life.

There can also be measures based on parental control that aren't enforced by law, but are an additional tool for parents to make sure their kids don't see this stuff.
For example Internet-facing companies can optionally make different versions of their content that are labeled with the potentially unwanted topics it contains, and the parents can set up their devices so that it only shows content without those labels.
For example a 7yo can have their devices block things that show/discuss sexuality, violence, etc. and only allow web-1.0-style read-only pages where they can't interact with others, so they can watch and read on interesting and enriching contents without being exposed to potentially harmful stuff.
As the kid ages, the parental controls can be set to be more lax (like allowing violence in educational contexts like history, allowing interactions under monitored circumstances, etc)
A child welfare organization can certify that the labels are truthful or whatever
Anonymous No.106400384 >>106403411
>>106400296
>And your suggestion is to decriminalize the hosting and viewing of this content
Take your meds unironically. I implied nothing like that.

The rest of your post is also schizobabble that has nothing to do with what I said.
Anonymous No.106400401 >>106400480
>>106400373
Too bad everything you suggested would be called "nanny state" or something similar by the eleutheromaniacs here and beyond who, at this point, should just admit they're fine with children being exposed to porn.
Anonymous No.106400480
>>106400401
The Internet at large, but especially 4chan, is full of deranged underdeveloped retards that you would very rarely encounter IRL because they're online for most of their day, and because normal reasonable people don't spend nearly as much time arguing on forums.
What they think or say doesn't really matter that much.
I assume that everyone I'm talking with is highly likely to be this way until proven otherwise, so when they out themselves it's not really a big deal.
Anonymous No.106400488 >>106401681
>>106380430
After pondering your observation, I could not avoid to derive a personal observation: the parallel with advertisement is obvious. Some people just don’t tolerate them.
SmoothPorcupine No.106401677
NPC has higher likelihood to do magic than the background reality, since we can put inordinately much of it in any game. :I
Anonymous No.106401681
>>106400488
Ads are more of a necessary evil, without which there would be no service (or at least it wouldn't be free), so most people tolerate them even if they don't like them.
Csam and other typically-banned types of content aren't going to be tolerated by pretty much anyone who's not the people who are actually into them, as their presence has no utility other than to preserve the title of "fully unmoderated", which is itself only a good thing if you're into the typically-banned stuff and are tired of getting banned everywhere.
Anonymous No.106401717
>>106399477
Everything you just said is a lie, which everyone should consider trivial to recognize since its truth value hinges entirety on the final word.

>there isn't one
Anonymous No.106401757 >>106402248
>>106390616
That's what it's turned into, but it was originally a common language and understanding for when the plebs could reasonably expect other plebs to stand with them against tyranny.
Anonymous No.106401874
>>106400296
Actually we can just use our personal feelings to answer each question you asked, formal accusation is irrelevant if everyone lies anyway.
Anonymous No.106402248
>>106401757
>That's what it's turned into
Yes, when it was first penned.
>the plebs could reasonably expect other plebs to stand with them against tyranny
And do what? Excuse me: and do what, that would be effective?
Anonymous No.106402263
>>106380110 (OP)
You don't, and it's why I refuse to create anything that allows user generated content because I just want to make cool shit, not moderate faggots that ruin it.
Anonymous No.106402626
>>106380110 (OP)
>uncensored
>protect itself against pizza and other abuse, keeping it clean
Are you retarded or something
>That's prone to dogpiling, you just need a big enough group to delete literally any content that you don't like.
That just would imply that that network started moderating itself and carved out a niche for itself, if it gets taken over, too bad. Imagine /pol/ but think of it like a turf war.
If its centralized you could simply restore content that was wrongfully taken down (eg trannies got mad) and punish the people who voted for that, but then you may have a problem of
>bad actors blowing through CIDR ranges
Anonymous No.106403411 >>106403673
>>106400384
Sorry I assumed you were this anon (>>106392151)
I thought he was trying to claim both that the "viewer and the host of the underage nudes are unrelated adults who should not suffer for it" and "children take their own pictures without any adult involved anyway" at the same time.
If they are taking their own pictures and sharing them with other children over secure channels, there are no adults suffering for this anyway, so it is a different case than the one we were arguing about.
If an adult is accessing the images, the adult is no longer unrelated.
Anonymous No.106403673
>>106403411
>Sorry I assumed you were this anon
It's alright. It happens on an anonymous site.
Sorry for responding in such a heated way.

>If they are taking their own pictures and sharing them with other children over secure channels, there are no adults suffering for this anyway, so it is a different case than the one we were arguing about.
>If an adult is accessing the images, the adult is no longer unrelated.
Agreed.
The point of my post wasn't to add to the broader conversation, but only to respond to the Anon who said that kids don't produce csam on their own, to tell him that they do and that kids in modern society are no longer "innocent" as kids used to be in the past.
It was just a parenthesis, not an argument against anything else that was said previously.
Anonymous No.106404022
>>106394002
>this
Even only text would have governments attempting to censor it. Imagine if someone uploaded classified information that made the authorities seethe.