Thread 106411115

i'm sold.
it just werks.
linux is good but its a fucking mess.
freebsd just werks and... just werks. documentation is perfection. file system is perfection. it just werks. i'm sold.
daily snapshots, boot environment backups accessible from boot loader, compression on file system level, zfs is fully abstracted away from the actual file system, its like magic

why is not shilled more? its an extremely well developed OS.
i have seen the light

even jackd audio daemon of all things, just werks by default after installing it.
how many linux distros can say that?

>>106411115 (OP)
>it just werks.
If you win the decade old Thinkpad lottery, sure.

>>106411115 (OP)
How well are the drivers though?

>>106411138
well, you got me there.
>>106411152
for now, just werks.

>zfs is fully abstracted away from the actual file system
huh

>daily snapshots, boot environment backups accessible from boot loader, compression on file system level
good thing ZFSBootMenu exists and you can have all of that on Linux

>>106411115 (OP)
Lack of software and drivers. Even less than in GNU/Linux.

>>106411173
what i mean is that zfs is next gen.
partitions are basically virtual, abstracted away from the boundaries of actual partitions.

its just next-gen future tech.

>>106411115 (OP)
>daily snapshots, boot environment backups accessible from boot loader, compression on file system level, zfs is fully abstracted away from the actual file system, its like magic
never heard of btrfs? or y'know, zfs on linux?

>>106411179
>i'm using freebsd because of zfs
zfs isn't even native to freebsd, it's from solaris. it's a sun thing. it's as native to freebsd as it is to linux, and it's also available for linux

>>106411173
>huh
he's talking about subvolumes. mountable virtual volumes which draw from a single shared pool. like what btrfs also does

>>106411193
not only, pkg and portage are just werking.
i've cooompiled a bunch of shit without a single error.

>>106411179
>>106411193
oh and if you're wondering what the deal is with zfs's association with *bsd is, it's actually just because of licensing. zfs, being from solaris, uses the CDDL license, which is not GPL-compatible, so it can't legally be included into linux. that's the only difference

it comes down to this:
i feel respected by my computer for once.
its not fucking with me half of the time i try to do something.

>>106411193
>[zfs is] as native to freebsd as it is to linux
the difference is that it's not in the linux kernel, whereas freebsd has in-kernel out-of-the-box support for root on ZFS.
having said that, i don't see that as a reason to use freebsd over linux.

>>106411228
it doesn't matter.
during installation i just chose the default zfs. with that i got compression too.

it just werks.

>>106411224
that's what gentoo is for, really. i don't want to suggest you're wrong for using freebsd, i'm sure it's an excellent os, all i'm saying is that you've not brought up anything actually unique to it

>>106411251
well ok, but btrfs is a common option in linux installers and that also supports subvolumes and compression.
ps. you can do a zfs root in linux as well. and again, it's only a separate install because of licensing, not technical. it is trivial to do this technically in linux, they just aren't allowed to ship them together legally

>>106411233
and if a linux distro is fucking with me, that means the people who assembled the distro are fucking with me and as the end-user I deserve some respect.

>>106411264
I wouldn't say it's trivial, because it requires you to boot into an environment that supports ZFS, use it to create a ZFS pool and bootstrap the OS onto it.

Also, I don't think there's any legal limitation preventing any Linux distro from shipping with ZFSBootMenu preconfigured. It's just easy enough to do that whoever wants to have root on ZFS can just do it, without needing a whole distro to be preconfigured for it. But yes, out of the box support would be nice.

>>106411333
distros are reluctant to touch ZFS because the kernel refuses to touch it. they've been trying to get a successor going for a while now, but Btrfs doesn't quite measure up, while bcachefs, the most serious new contender, just got kicked out of the kernel. meanwhile ZFS has been steadily getting better features and tools.

>>106411333
in linux, nothing is trivial. i dont mind getting my hands dirty but when there is no predictability or at least a semi-guarantee that things will be the same in 5 years, i'm not feeling respected as a user.

my knowledge that i accumulate is worth nothing to these people, they just change shit because thats the way gnu/linux has always been: a fragmented mega-project of projects that distro maintainers put enormous time just to keep glued together so it until the next release.

if you are using a rolling release distro then its even worse, you are a free beta tester.

also, i dont mind donating money to the distro i use which i do. i understand that maintaining distros is a full time job and i value that.
i also know that these maintainers would have to work much less if only they were working for a more coherent project with stricter guide lines.

>>106411333
i haven't heard of zfsbootmenu, last time i did zfsonlinux as root was way back, like 2010 or something. these day i use btrfs so i haven't kept up with zfs
>>106411365
btrfs has it's downsides, but it also has it's upsides, at least as far as i'm aware. like how it's trivial in btrfs to add/remove one device at a time, or how you can change data/metadata profiles at any time

>>106411365
Apparently they're also removing russian contributions so it's basically doomed

Some of the zoomers maintaining projects like xorg are absolutely retarded

>>106411391
>i haven't heard of zfsbootmenu
I got on it semi-recently and it's the comfiest thing. It essentially lets you boot into any number of isolated ZFS boot environments, create and boot into snapshots, etc. It's also portable, so you can just have it on a flash drive and give ZFS entire disks - easy full-disk remote backup and restore straight to/from your NAS. I don't think I'm going back to regular bootloaders at this point.

But yes, if Btrfs does everything you need, then there's no reason to go out of your way to use ZFS, since the setup will almost certainly require a semi-trivial amount of fucking around.

linux is just too fucking complex for little gain.

when i'm reading the freebsd handbook, so many times i'm just flabbergasted at how much is offered to you as a user or admin. its all there for you to turn or install.
take every section of the handbook and you just make the system better and more complete as you go.

a normal linux distro focuses on maybe half of what is available already in the freebsd handbook to do.

arch documentation is god-tier but their AUR system is just not coherent enough with too many random contributors and lack of quality control.
but then you have systemd.
artix solves that but has fewer users so then you get the disadvantage of being a smaller project.

debian/devuan situation is the same kind of problem. debian big but systemd, devuan no systemd but small. running testing is ok but still risky.

slackware is great if you love to autistically micro-manage everything.

but none really strike a good balance like freebsd does

>>106411468
yea, these days i see btrfs as a more convenient and more flexible zfs. i used zfs first, after all; zfs has been around longer than btrfs, but the flexibility of btrfs pulled me to it, and i have been happy with it.
i am aware there's some things zfs does that btrfs doesn't still, such as l2arc and encryption, but there's ways around those if you need it. i won't claim they're perfectly equivalent, but for me, btrfs is more of what i want

>guy installs FreeBSD
>can't stop going on about it for the last 48 hours
I can't wait to see what you hooooop to next, likely in a few weeks' time

>>106411493
how would you compare it with gentoo?

If you don't need steam or wifi. freebsd is the UNIX to go desu

>>106411524
i shortly tried gentoo. i just cant sit and compile all day. my cpu needs to do other shit.

i liked gentoo documentation.

>>106411537
gentoo has binary repos as well

>>106411548
honestly, i never really gave it a fair chance.

>>106411548
i remember now, i ran into some emerge problems where it couldn't resolve some dependencies so i just said fuck it and left.
i was just filtered probably. probably did something wrong. that was like 10 years ago.

>>106411568
i appreciate your honesty. i haven't tried running freebsd as my main os, but from what i've heard gentoo is very much inspired by freebsd and the like. i know gentoo is a meme around here, but this is one case where that really is something that is likely what you've been looking for regarding linux distros
>>106411590
portage output does indeed have a learning curve, but what doesn't?

>>106411607
honestly, if i had a beast of a computer, i would consider running gentoo.
i'm just not sure how much gentoo is able to be setup and just work for the next 1 year without you having to tinker because of something that portage did.

i dont know, you tell me. can you automate everything for a year and not have to tinker too much?

>>106411685
sure, i've run it longer without issue.

>>106411706
what if you don't update for 6 months?

>>106411738
i switched back to gentoo after having not used it for a couple years and instead of starting anew, i decided i'd just get the old install updated. i'm still using it

>>106411749
sounds good.
a system needs to be stable in both cases. (neglected or updated every day)
it needs to werk.

had this problem on arch, i didnt update for 2 months or something and pacman started to act up.
as soon as that happened twice, i said i dont have time for that sort of shit.

>>106411685
>>106411749
ps. i actually did switch back partially because i have gotten a beast of a cpu, but i've found that once you're at my stage where you're comfortable and aren't installing new things to try every day, you really aren't installing (compiling) stuff all that much. after switching back i also consequently installed it on a spare, much older computer (mid-range 4th gen i5) and it's doing home server stuff just fine. even on weaker hardware if you just want something to set up once and use for long periods, compilation times are really not something that should concern you

>>106411793
how fast do you compile your browsers?

Gentoo scares me in that any number of things can change whenever you update. If I'm gonna neglect all updates for like 2 years out of fear of things changing, then why am I using a rolling relese in the first place? I want to be up to date with security patches and know that things won't change, and go into a major version upgrade knowing that I can handle the big changes all at once. For me, it's fixed release with long term support only. Anything else is too anxiety inducing.

>>106411817
average merge times are 25:58s for librewolf and 24:58s for palemoon

>>106411864
good boi
what would chromium be? 2 hours?

>>106411897
i haven't built chromium on this machine

>>106411864
and for me that would take probably 2 hours each

>>106411901
probably would take 24 hours to compile fucking chromium over here

>>106411906
if you have a very old computer, perhaps. but really, when was the last time you needed a browser update immediately? it's not like you can't use your computer while it builds, and if haven't updated in a while i'll just run it while i sleep

compiling from source is basically a luxury for many. historically, even more so. its for kings only.

>>106411925
i'm just fucking with you. i fear gentoo. i'm afraid it will filter my lack of patience.
freebsd just werks. literally everything that i needed to do since i installed it had 0 errors

i finally feel loved and respected as a human being

>>106411925
updates is one thing. but what about when you need a program that you don't already have? then what, "come back in a few hours?"
>but muh you can just download the binary
i know. which is why coompiling is retarded.

>>106411998
most programs build pretty quickly, like mpv is less than 4 minutes, simplescreenrecorder is less than 6 minutes. the initial installation may seem daunting, but this is only because you're compiling everything all at the same time, once you're set up you'll be compiling less and less. like updating mpv for me now is only a few minutes, but installing it on a new bare system with none of it's dependencies installed will take much longer. this probably scares some people away before they've even given it a chance
and no, installing a binary if you need something right now doesn't mean compiling is retarded

>>106411947
this includes things like installing from source from ports, installing pre-compiled packages, setting up daily zfs snapshots, installing intel drivers, ssh, installing wine (32&64bit and transferring over the old wine directory, transferring over qbittorrent and all torrents, modifying a bunch of scripts to adapt to newer python version and bash scripts to adapt to userland utilities and differences, installing a few gnu utils which you don't have in bsd, installing low latency audio and more with no unexpected behavior.

can your os do this?

>>106411901
Usecase for chromium

>>106412052
save your goalpost moving for someone who cares. i've heard it all before. DNF being 10 seconds slower than apt/pacman is agonizingly slow, whereas coompiling the same thing for 10 minutes, even hours, is suddenly "not that bad actually".

>>106412132
i didn't move the goalpost. there wasn't even a goalpost. anon mentioned the answer to his own question

>>106412089
maybe i was just lucky with my hardware but other than that it sure feels like a whole different thing compared to linux.

hardware-wise, i get it that freebsd has worse hardware support but if thats the main advantage of linux, then i will make sure that my next computer is supported by freebsd.

the software layer in linux is just too chaotic, i've been here since a long time and all the time you have to tinker with stuff and adapt to changes or different ways of doing things. a million different things to track...

i will still have linux machines but for my main machine, it just clicked with freebsd.

>he's still going
*sigh* am I really gonna have to add "FreeBSD" to my filter?

>>106412146
maybe i'm jumping the gun here, but that's how usually these conversations go.
>coompiling is not so bad because you can do it overnight
>ok well if you need something during the day it's not so bad if you're updating whatever you already have
>ok well even if you don't have it installed it doesn't take that long anyway
>ok well if it still takes long then you can just install the precoompiled version
making coompilation the rule rather than the exception, is just retarded to me

>>106412264
then don't do it? i'm not telling you to use gentoo or compile packages.
op has made it clear he wants something that can be left alone most of the time, like months at a time. compilation times are a complete non-issue in that case, since when he does want to update, he can fire it off overnight. if you can go 2 months without updating something, you can go another 20 minutes

With loonix going totally loony this is pretty much the only current option, eventually I hope that mezzano os will be more usable

>>106412288
>>106412264
-- case in point, i haven't updated in a bit, and i'm about to go to sleep, so i ran a world update. 124 packages to update, and during the last couple posts it's already completed 27 of them. i'm not so delusional to suggest it benefits everyone or just as fast as installing a prebuilt package, if i've given that impression i'd like to know how.

>>106411115 (OP)
If I wanted an alternate Unix OS with no apps I'd just use OpenBSD.

>>106412288
>op has made it clear he wants something that can be left alone most of the time, like months at a time. compilation times are a complete non-issue in that case
OP wants a system that would have minimal changes when update command gets run months apart. So you're right - compilation times have nothing to do with that point.

>>106411115 (OP)
>why is not shilled more?
It's like Linux a decade behind. It might be great but no apps are willing to support it. Good luck getting something like Steam to work. Who knows if it will ever be prevalent enough for that to change. Linux only recently got there.

>>106412409
lmao, i actually used linux a decade ago. it was nothing like freebsd today or linux today. we might not be looking for the same things though.

linux and freebsd are both modern operating systems in active use. both are similarly capable.
the difference is in how integrated everything is.
from my perspective as a normal linux/bsd user who does not need steam specifically and who only needs bash, python and daily backups and some other stuff, freebsd just gave all that to me for no unexpected shit in exchange. like on rails.
but as they say, your experience may vary

i forgot to tell about this one weird issue i had with the keyboard.
the cursor keys were as if mapped to other keys for some reason.

searching for this on the forums, other people had these problems in 2024 and 2025, apparently, i had to set keyboard layout in rc.conf for some reason, it not set, it made the cursor up key trigger other buttons like print screen for example..

after setting it in rc.conf multiple layouts still work in x11 like normal and he problem disappeared.

>>106411132
>how many linux distros can say that?
NixOS

>>106411115 (OP)
keep shilling anon, I like your enthusiasm and finally a thread about technology


>>106412409
>something like Steam to work
Why on earth anyone who isn't a manchild would care about Steam or gayming in general on a personal computer?

if the lack of Steam support is your idea of being "decades old" I might just try freebsd to distance myself from techlet faggots like you

>>106412776
you and op should take turns sucking each oher off while the suckee keeps going "god i love freebsd!"

>>106411242
Not having systemd is already a very good reason not talking about all the other linux aids

>>106412817
linux can have whatever init you want. but you already know this.

>>106412813
you can have your gay fantasy satisfied on other websites, there's no need to fanfic here on a tech board

>>106412776
Steam is just one great example and like 90% of this board are manchildren by this logic.

>>106412901
they could probably run it with wine anyway.

>>106411115 (OP)
If you're so happy with it, why did you make this thread? It sounds like you're trying to convince yourself and not other people. If it works for you, then shut the fuck up and get to whatever you're using that computer for.

>>106412960
lol. because linux users deserve to know.

every linux user knows deep down how finicky linux is most of the time. unfortunately, they think thats as good as it gets

>>106412901
> Steam is just one great example
It's really not.
> 90% of this board are manchildren by this logic.
so be it, what kind of argument is this?
If you are a grown ass person (+16) stop playing videogames like a fucking toddler and if you want, just acknowledge not all people are loser like you

OSes are judge by their technical capabilities (performaces, features, stability, support and such), not by the fact you can shoot aliens in a virtual world you fucking disgrace of a human

>>106411115 (OP)
>it just werks
Since fucking when lmfao

>>106412960
People with niche interests tend to have no friends to discuss their interests with, but they still get the urge to express how happy they are with whatever is the latest thing that they've found to be perfect for themselves. It happens a lot to me too, except, unlike OP, I seem to be far more aware of the fact that nobody wants to hear my excited autistic rambling.

Except maybe Reddit. Go to a subreddit for thing, make a post saying "God I love thing" and watch those upvotes roll in. Perhaps OP should try going there with this stuff instead?

i have to give credit where its due.
in linux, debian/devuan have consistently been the most coherent and ready for serious use with no waste of time. given that they have linuxes hardware support it makes them good competitors to freebsd but freebsd has that little extra when you have to administer your system. the userland is just superior.

>>106413079
i dont care. there is so much garbage on 4chan that none of that matters when i post.

>>106413140
I see. Well, it's been fun reading your posts, but I think it's time for FreeBSD to enter my filter. I can't take any more of your drivel.

>>106413181
> I think it's time for FreeBSD to enter my filter
Please do

>>106413063
Shooting alians in a virtual world is a technical capability

>>106413205
then having hardware opengl should suffice to prove a point.

>>106413237
But can it run Crysis?

>>106413205
But you'll be better discussing this *specific* (and frivolous) capability on semi-tech board like >>>/v/ , where I suggest you to run as soon as possible

go back peww peww on your gayme machine

>>106413237
it does support openGL. It also have native support for nvidia drivers although I'm not sure how update they are
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/freebsd-x64-archive/

>>106413330
BUT CAN IT RUN CRYSIS?

>>106413368
not on my computer

>>106411115 (OP)
you could use freebsd and it would feel like you are using linux and that's because freebsd uses the same desktop environments and the same programs

if malware ever becomes a thing on linux i'll switch to freebsd

>>106411115 (OP)
single data point i know, but the only guy at work that insisted we use freebsd for everything was a mentally ill schizo

>>106411115 (OP)
Cool, but I'll wait for HyperbolaBSD instead.

>>106413063
>OSes are judge
browns confirmed for hating fun

>>106414606
confirmed for manchild
Also, I'm whiter than you mutt

>>106414182
> doesn't realize linux is already a malware itself
It's too late anon

>>106415665
>SAAAR I AM OF WHITE BRAPMIN
lol