Thread 106438188

Is it good? Is there better? I've been using matrix but it would be easier to get friends and the gf to move to Signal.

>>106438188 (OP)
Signal is gold standard e2ee, use it instead of insecure SMS as much as possible.

>>106438188 (OP)
>>106439348
fpbp. Research instead of listening to glowies.

dropped it when they went full retard and stopped me being able to use it with people who didn't use signal

never looked back

signal is better than whatsapp or telegram but worse than matrix

>>106438188 (OP)
isn't Signal just as bad as Telegram and WhatsApp nowadays?

>>106438188 (OP)
You don't have neither friends nor a girlfriend.

Signal and Matrix both suck for different reasons but Signal will give you a better experience in general especially for normie friends.

>>106438188 (OP)
me and my wife's son moved to irc

>>106439348
>>106439462
>>106439480
none of you can show an example of a Signal message in its encrypted form

>>106439470
This was so gay. I loved it for being a unified singular app I could use with everybody and now I had to go back to using Messages with normies. I've never forgiven them for this either.

>>106438188 (OP)
Session is superior no need for phone number

>limited to use it on only 2 devices (including PC) at the same time

into trash it goes, no advantages over WhatsApp

>>106439480
I just wish matrix didn't have the shittiest server software. The whole federated system loses its point when synapse is such a ridiculous performance disaster making self hosting unattractive and dendrite is never gonna be ready to support matrix specs to a decent degree

>>106439905
wireshark intercept it yourself, no one here is going to do work for you, faggot

>>106441539
Oh, you can't. I understand
You still can't show what an encrypted Signal message looks like.

>>106442490
>makes claim
>people object
>"erm it's ackstually up to you guys to disprove me, and if you don't that means you can't"
obnoxious fedora tipping faggots like you belong on reddit

>>106438188 (OP)
as >>106439348 implied, really decent e2ee, plus great app overall. Use it if you rely on kikephones and don't want to talk to people irl.
>>106442490
Hello again, PGP schizo. Hope you had a great sunday.

>>106438188 (OP)
Really good, UI also makes it normie-friendly. Only caviat is phone number registration

>>106439905
Compile it and add some logging logic to see the message.

>>106445130
not disprove, you stupid ass, but prove. still Signal message in encrypted format.
>>106446249
still Signal message in encrypted format.

>>106442490
>You still can't show what an encrypted Signal message looks like.
do it yourself and post results or gtfo

>>106447475
>do it yourself
ah, yes. thank you for proving my point that you can't.

I am trying Delta Chat and Matrix. Also I prefer Threema.

>>106447475
coping faggot

>>106447600
>>106447850
brother we are both asking each other to do it. you are no better than i am.

>>106438188 (OP)
does not matter,
android and ios will read all your messages for chat control before the app gets them or from screen itself recall style
and you wont be able to sideload anything to prevent it

>>106442490
More importantly can you intercept an in-transit signal message that's NOT encrypted?

>>106438188 (OP)
>Is it good?
yes
>Is there better?
privacy and security-wise? no but I find the audio and video calls flacky and others are better, still use it with friends and family
>>106442490
still the best we have, used by millions included heads of state, glowies and high-profile criminals.
the burden of proof is on your side bud, you're the luddite claiming retarded things.

>>106449523
you still can't provide evidence that signal is indeed encrypted. Waiting for that signal message in its encrypted format

>>106448176
>future tense
kek

>>106438188 (OP)
Depends on your threat model, if you need to prevent American glowies from determining your social network from metadata/timing analysis don't use signal.

Sealed sender does nothing during an active conversation if the NSA has taps at both the Signal server and your phone company. They just slurp the IP/phone connections and can tie everything together. Sealed sender doesn't help, they don't even need to compromise the signal servers ... which they certainly can even without help from signal devs, since Intel TXT is a joke.

>>106451299
American glowies are powerless. Taliban in fact even used WhatsApp.

>>106451336
in reality, NSA could not stop a known spy from joining a government chat

>>106438188 (OP)
>and the gf to move to Signal
Stopped reading right there. You don't have a girlfriend, had you one, you'd be having sex with her instead of making this thread.

>>106439769
Correct post.
>>106439813
>wife's son

>>106451661
>stopped reading right there
but it's literally the end of the sentence...

>>106451720
. was left.

>>106451181
what kind of an evidence you are looking for? an official claim from signal or you want a string of encrypted massage generated by signal messenger?

>>106438188 (OP)
French president and my drug dealer use it, seems either ultra safe or a honey pot

>>106451557
Whatsapp is E2EE and it's much easier for your traffic to hide in the crowd, honestly a far smarter choice for the Taliban tgan Signal.

>>106452375
fucking retard. Please see >>106439905

>>106438188 (OP)
OP, while Signal is good for non-technical family, please consider using XMPP instead of Matrix. Much like the Web, Matrix is a complicated protocol that is nearly impossible to implement completely or correctly. This has led to the founders, who started a company called Element, leaving the community with a largely insecure and unusable Synapse implementation while their paid proprietary business/government Synapse gets all the updates. Additionally, at a protocol level, the "everything-as-a-room" architecture leads to slowdowns at best and breaking rooms at worst.
The extensible nature of XMPP counters this. Unlike Matrix, multiple independent server and clients exist that are implemented completely and correctly, but I would recommend Prosody as a server (it's super lightweight and easy to run) and Gajim, Conversations, and Monal as possible clients.

>>106438188 (OP)
Years ago, I've used Signal to communicate some pretty fucking criminal things, WHILE being watched by my country's spook agency. If Signal wasn't solid, I would be probably still in jail.
I will always recommend Signal.

It sends text, images and videos
What else do you want

>>106447386
>still Signal message in encrypted format
Are you Indian by any chance?

just use gpg encrypted messages in signal
ezpz

>>106441531
This. Matrix is just unusable and it fascinates me why their number 1 priority isn't making a server instance that isn't shit.

>>106451336
Anon, signal themselves can't even decrypt your messages. If the NSA has signal servers it doesn't help them at all. Except to deliver malware and compromise your device; if the app itself just sent your messages straight to the NSA then that'd do it.

>>106451636
If you invite people to chats they have access to them. There's no software that will ever be made that will fix this.

>>106451636
"a known spy"
Anon they literally just invited Jeffery Goldberg. It wasn't a software problem.

>>106455893
You just know it was some other jewish handler named Goldberg that was supposed to be in there and the idiot picked the wrong one. Simple incompetence, not a security issue.

>>106439348
Signal, with about 10000 dependencies on every Google service and updates almost every day. Signal has more backdoors than a rocco siffredi compilation.

>>106457051
No anon, you are just retarded.

>>106455583
No, but, you still have 0 evidence of Signal encryption

>>106441446
this nigga gets it

Session is the only messenger without a requirement for a phone number, centralized servers, and has simultaneous multi client (desktop, mobile at the same time in sync)

everything else is shit
and that goes double for the matrix fags

>>106458439
Matrix does not require a phone number.
Matrix does not have centralized servers -- it is federated.
Matrix can support both desktop and mobile.
Oh, and Matrix supports files > 10 MB.

>>106458540
>Matrix does not require a phone number.
it requires you trust whoever you have running your server

>Matrix does not have centralized servers -- it is federated.
nice try. federated means that your centralized server can communicate with other centralized servers. and someone you trust has to run your server

>Matrix can support both desktop and mobile.
not at the same time
you have to logout of one to switch to the other
not like session where i can be using my desktop client and then just use my phone client when I need to take a dump, and come back and everything on both clients remains in sync

>Matrix supports files > 10 MB.
i dont care about sending files. i care about a friction free messaging environment with simultaneous client support and a decentralized infrastructure

>>106458625
>you have to logout of one to switch to the other
you're extremely retarded

>>106458638
ok still a centralized server which someone has to run

>>106458625
Decentralization isn't about who you can trust or not. It's about not being able to be taken down easily. Government doesn't like what you're doing, how easy is it for the entire network to get fucked? Also, there's not much to trust a matrix server admin with. The worst information they have access to is who you're talking to, not what's being sent. If that's still too much for your, use SimpleX.

>>106458726
>SimpleX
doesnt support simultaneous connection from multiple devices

>>106439714
No

>>106438188 (OP)
I was really hoping Signal was going to take off. I had convinced lots of people to start using it, and I was slowly convincing people to use it instead of SMS like Google's Messenger. Then Signal got rid of the option to text people not using Signal because a bunch of third world shitters didn't understand that data rates till applied for sending SMS through it and cried and whined loud enough that they just dropped the option to send SMS at all. I still use it for a group chat with some friends, and a few dedicated friends who also switched to Signal as their primary messenger app, but the all in once e2ee that could also send unsecured SMS when convenient is long gone.

>>106439348
And yet you still need a phone number to register for signal. Total honeypot.

>>106455851
>Anon, signal themselves can't even decrypt your messages. If the NSA has signal servers it doesn't help them at all. Except to deliver malware and compromise your device; if the app itself just sent your messages straight to the NSA then that'd do it.
Literally no one does physical key checks, so they can MitM the key exchange.

If the NSA compromises the servers after the initial key change it will trigger a prompt, but for paranoid users who don't really understand why Signal sucks they can steal the phone first, making it natural that there is a key change. Then they can MitM that key exchange.

The secret key is always secret, but the public key of the person you think you are talking to is not ... and tgat person can be a MitM.

Or the NSA could just push a compromised client, then they have all the keys. Oops, the reproducible builds stop working again for a while ... wouldn't be the first time.

>criminals use it
>terrorists use it
>politicians use it
>(para)militaries use it
>people in shitholes with actual censorship use it
>basically everyone where shit can go down for real use it
>/g/eddit screeches and shits its pants trying to conjure some retarded reason why you should not use it
Signal threads are always a fantastic example of terminal contrarianism created by extreme larping.

>>106439905
This. It has never been observed in nature.

>>106461348
>terrorists use it
Taliban used whatsapp apparently.

People in shitholes aren't tying their phonenumber to shit if they have an IQ above room temperature. Without putting all your traffic through a VPN, signal exposes way too much metadata attack surface.

US secret services don't have to worry about metadata leaks from traffic analysis inside the US, they are the ones doing it. That means absolutely nothing.

>>106461489
This is why I mentioned larping. You can get prepaid sim cards in a corner grocerystore in half of the world, not to mention e-sim cards. So many ways how to wrangle this.
>metadata
The only (meta)data signal collects (and therefore can potentially expose) is the day when you last logged in. Not time, but day, mind you.

>>106461638
Still no proof that it's encrypted nor not encrypted

>>106438188 (OP)
Shilled a bit too much on r3ddit, always felt like CIA op to me, like one of those sky/encrochat apps.

>>106461993
It's been audited repeatedly.

>>106462606
how do YOU know that it was actually audited? because, "they" said it was?
how are YOU actually convinced that its encrypted? you druzd dee eggzberdz? fucking retarded faggot homo. take your girly mouthed faggot ass and go listen to Katy Perry with your mommy, you moron.

>>106439480
>matrix
Yes, trust our hosted version, kek. :^)

>>106463219
Cringe.

>>106463293
you still can't provide evidence that Signal messages are indeed encrypted; what an encrypted Signal message looks like.

>>106463301
At some point, trolling used to be at least funny. Now it's just boring shit made by retards who should have been bullied more in elementary school.

>>106463330
so, you can't provide evidence. that's all you had to say.

>>106463330
kek faggot folding his arms and responding scornfully

>>106463301
>>106463354
And you can't prove it isn't encrypted, so it's a stalemate. Can we move on from your cringey bullshit now or have you not finished your masturbation session?

>>106463701
>And you can't prove it isn't encrypted
That's right. The claims of signal are non-falsifiable. Thank you for agreeing with me and making my point. You stupid little bitch

>>106464310
I didn't say that no one could prove it, I just said YOU couldn't. It would take you a couple of minutes to check if you actually cared about any of this but since you don't you won't. But by all means, continue with your masturbation session.

>>106464405
so you're a pivoting faggot. this isn't surprising. you still can't provide an example of a Signal message in its encrypted format and your inability to do so is making you sooooo mad. cry more faggot.

>>106464405
>I just said YOU couldn't
I already said I agreed with you. Do you not understand what "non-falsifiable" means?

>>106464421
I see the masturbation session continues. Well it's probably for the better, wouldn't want you in the gene-pool.
>>106464434
I do, do YOU not understand what "non-falsifiable" means in this instance? You can check it any fucking time you want, and yet you're not

>>106464458
I see you're still unable to provide proof that Session messages are indeed encrypted. many such cases. seethe more into oblivion.

>>106464458
>You can check it any fucking time you want
check what??? you cannot show an example of an encrypted Signal message and what it looks like. why are you still trying to shift the burden of proof?

>>106464469
Session? Did you bot break buddy?
>>106464483
Open WireShark, look at traffic. Now you can get off this board and go and be a schizo retard somewhere else.

>>106464499
again, YOU cannot show a Signal message in its encrypted format. waiting.

>>106464499
If it's that simple, why can't you show a Signal message in its encrypted format? gegg

>>106464511
I guess if WireShark is too advanced for you you can't, you're probably right about that. And by extension you can't show me a Signal message in it's unencrypted format cause again, it's too hard. Same goes for you bot#2 >>106464527

>>106464540
you keep making this about me and trying to shift the burden of proof? why? if it's so simple to do, why haven't you simply provided evidence of a Signal message in its encrypted format? are you okay? are you mental masturbating again?

>>106464555
Cause you're the one who made the claim, if you're gonna make the claim back it the fuck up or you're just doing it for the sake of wasting other peoples time

>>106464574
What claim, exactly, am I making?
and pic related is a signal message in its unencrypted format

>>106464588
The claim you've made like 20 times in this thread.
>>106464595
That's not a Signal message but ok retard-kun. You've just filled in a text box and not send any message.

>>106464611
>The claim you've made like 20 times in this thread.
which was what? stupid homo
>That's not a Signal message
it actually is, you dumb faggot.

>>106464630
>which was what? stupid homo
Idk, weird how we both had completely memory loss about that simultaneously
>it actually is, you dumb faggot.
No, you've just typed in the text box. I don't even get the point of doing that. You can just type a message to yourself and send it and actually post a Signal message and you'd technically be correct but it would end your fun I guess so you picked the retard path.

Anywhore I think is just gonna end up with picrel so take your pick: claim victory like an idiot or simply repeat the same claim again like an idiot. The choice is yours.

>>106438188 (OP)
It's good as a replacement for something like whatsapp since it's just as easy to use for normie acquaintances. However there are options that while harder to teach the normies to use have technical advantages, like session (more anonymous through a tor-like network, doesn't need phone number so easier to have multiple accounts. The tor-like network makes it suck ass for calls though, only really a good option for messaging with extreme anonymity requirements) and simpleX (no user ids so very convenient for keeping separate identities with your different contacts, no phone number required either). There's also matrix which is more of a replacement for stuff like discord and irc.

What I do is use signal for my normie contacts that are hard to convince to install another messaging app to begin with, and then with more tech-savy people maybe one of the alternatives I listed if it fits the usecase better. Signal is basically the bare minimum popular standard

>>106464695
I don't have memory loss. I know exactly what my claim was and I'm waiting for your retarded faggot ass to expose yourself by strawmanning my actual claim—asking me to prove that YOU and others CANNOT provide evidence that Signal is actually encrypted/a Signal message in its encrypted format. Because that's my claim and has always been my claim in this thread. You're just too fucking retarded to process simple GED information and language. If I am to take you up on your challenge (prove that YOU and others CANNOT provide evidence that Signal is actually encrypted/an example of a Signal message in its encrypted format), I would melt point out the fact that you STILL HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE.
>No, you've just typed in the text box.
That's right, using Signal, just before the message is sent. You fucking moron. Not reading the rest, because you're clearly a brainlet

>>106461638
>This is why I mentioned larping. You can get prepaid sim cards in a corner grocerystore in half of the world, not to mention e-sim cards. So many ways how to wrangle this.
So many ways for it to go wrong if you do it on one phone. So now you need a burner phone too, and live in a country with anonymous SIM, and not have to communicate with people with poor opsec so the social graph doesn't expose your identity any way.

All because Signal is designed to have connection/timing data easily slurped by the NSA and tied to phonenumbers and they steadily refuse to fix that.

>>106464788
So you can't provide an example of a Signal message in its encrypted format. I understand. Thanks anyway

>>106461638
>The only (meta)data signal collects (and therefore can potentially expose) is the day when you last logged in. Not time, but day, mind you.
It doesn't matter what they collect when the NSA taps all their traffic. NSA has a complete database of IPs, timing and message size for every message the Signal servers have ever handled. Through timing/size they can also know the link between sender and recipient IPs and through other sources they can usually connect IP to identity.

Sure, through religious opsec you can keep yourself somewhat secure. But if I religiously observe opsec, I won't use signal with their MitM key exchange vulnerability resulting from phonenumber as identity. Best just do shit right myself then.

Signal does not do it right.

>>106464803
I only use HTTP. No-one has shown me an unencrypted HTTP before.

>>106464817
No signal message in its encrypted format. That sucks

>>106464962
Next list you, make sure it's an example of am encrypted signal message.

>>106464994
I accept your concession. Take care

>>106464946
here you go

cope & mayhaps seethe

>>106464973
If someone were to post an example of an encrypted signal message as you've been requesting, what features would you be looking for to verify it? What would satisfy your request?

>>106465255
He would be happy he would have diverted yet more actual attacks on the many flaws of signal by another useless post.

>>106465255
I've convered this several times in past threads. Check the archives https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/103520991#103536121

>>106451299
European alternatives.

https://european-alternatives.eu/alternative-to/whatsapp

>>106465492
Olvid uses Google firebase installations. Wtf are you doing pal?

>>106438188 (OP)
No. Use Telegram. Avoid Whatsapp too.

>>106458395
>>106461993
>>106463219
>>106463301
>>106463354
>>106464421
>>106464469
>quote ad infinitum
Do you think Signal is sending your data in plain text or something? Surely someone would have noticed by now.

>>106466974
>Use Telegram
C'mon man, it's not even E2EE by default. The competition here is between Signal, Matrix, Session, and SimpleX. And maybe that one guy who's obsessed with Briar. But Telegram does not make the cut for anyone with even a mild level of paranoia. You might as well use Discord at that point.

>>106467143
Doesn't matter what I think. I'm just interested in the fact that nobody can show a signal message in its encrypted format. Everything else is irrelevant cope

>>106467143
Idk yay or nay, because there's no way to test it.

>>106467574
Someone already did though in this thread. You ignored it.

use molly.im instead

>>106469330
Where is the desktop client?

>>106467521
>And maybe that one guy who's obsessed with Briar
didnt read the website award
https://code.briarproject.org/briar/briar/-/wikis/FAQ#does-briar-provide-anonymity

>>106453416
XMPP has been the solution for decades. If Signal didn't glow it would look like XMPP.

>>106470313
OTR encryption has been broken

>>106470322
XMPP uses OMEMO or PGP

>>106470341
not all clients. pidgin which is the default on tails uses otr

>>106470421
Well then don't use that lol.

I don't have any friends and I don't care to talk to people what could I possibly gain from it?

>>106470566
There are chatrooms and dank mysteries on the messaging platforms.

>>106470341
> not quantum resistant
no thanks I will keep using my lattice cryptography

>>106470259
Wow, that's so much worse than routing the traffic through centralized American servers. Better to trust the NSA than the people you are communicating with.

brainlet here, tell me how e2ee is more than generating a public/private key pair and using them for encryption/decryption. It is literally 10 lines of code tops

>>106470913
Most end to end encryption uses something like PGP, mate

>>106471254
>PGP
never bothered to look into it, is this the app that have been broken for the past 50 years and no one cares about? Could you please explain how is it different from calling 2 functions to encrypt/decrypt a message?

>>106471281
PGP is literally just
>public/private key pair and using them for encryption/decryption
You've been using it without knowing that was it

>>106471288
so they tagged a name to 2 function calls? Embarrassing if you ask me, but then again, why would anyone need more than that? How can some shitty app worth $B?

>>106471314
It's not 2 function calls, it's a complex mathematical protocol
You seem like you're trolling
Either that or it's a lot more complicated than you think
Probably haven't even considered stuff like key exchange

I want to use signal but my normie friends and family don't want to