Thread 106480722

Gee, it's almost like AI is a bubble that will obliterate the American economy when it pops.

half a trillion would've bought America their own semiconductor industry, instead we get this bullshit

the west is gonna get its Two Lost Decades from this

>>106480727
On top of that, the sars are dumping US treasuries coz Trump bullied them.

>>106480722 (OP)
>obliterate the American economy when it pops.
why else would they all have bunkers?
where are we meeting up to establish a NA continental headquarters for /tv/ when this happens by the way

>>106480765
We discussed this at the meetup in San Francisco.

Great, I just prooomped for the first time this week lmao.

>>106480727
>half a trillion would've bought America their own semiconductor industry
No, it would cost a lot more to replicate ASML's and TSMC's tech.

>>106480826
USA controls ASML through force. they could buy ASML gear whenever they wanted. sort of similar for TSMC too as USA control taiwanese people.

>>106480826
Throw Zeiss in there. No Zeiss = no EUV

two more weeks

>>106480826
TSMC complete global assets are 214 billion
ASML's are 289 billion
Which is 503 billion. So half a trillion does buy you your own semiconductor industry.
It's an absolutely insane amount of money.

>>106480826
ASML is just an oven, an oven built on old US R&D they bought out years ago.
The real secret is how you use that oven to bake the cake, which the taiwanese are very secretive about and is why intel and smic are mostly sitting on their asses despite acquiring their own EUV machines to play around with years ago.

Yes i just tricked you into reading a food anology.

>>106481165
*stuck sitting on their asses

>>106480722 (OP)
>obliterate the American economy
*global economy

>>106480727
you would get the same grifters there fact is if you don't punish grifters you will keep getting scammed by big dreamers.

>>106481093
i dont think taiwan would allow its main reason for continued existence to be bought with american funny money

>>106481165
Scanners move the wafer and mask synchronously, with a couple nm of reproducibility. That's the Dutch tech.

The US light source was a clusterfuck which took decades and 100s of billions to get them to somewhat work and still pollute the entire machine to a riduculous degree, compared to the quality of engineering needed for the actual scanner it's kindergarten stuff ... poorly done.

it plateuad in usefullness for the average joe, in fact it is being enshittified
the big boys will work on cost optimization which can enable more stuff, but that is about it until new paradigms

>>106480722 (OP)
>good coders are REQUIRED to fix AI slops messes
>AI slop vibe coders lose their entire ability to work if a model has an outage or they have to do something the model isn't capable of
>somehow people think coders are going to be obsolete

The fad is dying, even stupid people can see the current version of AI being pushed for thousands a month is more of a hindrance to any company that isn't just scamming people

>>106481530
I can't tell if you're joking or not
Taiwan is economically, politically and militarily in the USA's pocket
they will do as they are told

>>106481432
The investors don't care anymore. They give money to the people already in their asset bubbles to continue the scam. VC's are known to pick the CEO that looks most like their grandson. How do you think SBF got any money?

>>106482053
>How do you think SBF got any money?
by having upper-middle class Jewish parents with lots of connections in academia, politics and finance
it's nothing to do with him looking like a cabbage

>>106482128
This. Investors are more likely to decide which company to invest in based on their follower count from social media than any kind of business plan.

yeah i know this might sound crazy but
but simply copypasting boilerplate might be better than dedicating entire nuclear power plants worth of electricity production into running boilerplate generating LLMs

>>106482023
if they were to give those assets to the US, then china would roll in and take over. the main reason china has not thus far is because 1) they need those chip factories themselves as well, so they can't blow them up and 2) they're afraid of US intervention. US would have no reason to intervene if they didn't have those factories. but also if they announced that they were giving all the factories, know-how and etc. to the US, that might in fact be catalyst that causes china to roll in and drop bombs on said factories the US couldn't have them.

taiwan giving the factories either the US or china exclusive access to those factories would inevitably lead to armed intervention either way, so literally the only way for them to live is to have both countries be dependent on them. if both US and china ever get their own chips factories up to speed by themselves then again china will probably take over because the US won't bother intervene unless the admin at that time feels like it

>>106482894
This whole era of LLMs could go down as the stupidest fad in American history.

heh... my moonie is a north americaner.... she did live there in the past...

>>106480727
but that would create jobs here and make the US less dependent, you know we can't have that

>>106482919
Stupidest fad in *American* history. But at least it's not the stupidest fad in history.

>>106480722 (OP)
Two more weeks and ai will disappear.
Luddites are so fucking gay. Luckily they will be replaced by AIGODS (codetroons, artroons...)

It feels like AI is getting worse

>>106482934
but Israel!

>>106480928
And? Oh wow cleetus from a red state is going to make sum doritos with them new fancy ayesymel masheen, a-hyuk

>>106480722 (OP)
>>106480727
Don't have the sources on hand, but economists that predicted the 2008 crash and people in the government are panicking right now because America was already bankrupt before the AI hype. All this bubble did was buy us some time.
>>106481382
Have Europoors not come up with a contingency for when we fuck up?
>>106484980
This.

>>106482919
Cope. Ai is the best invention in recent times. You are a brown luddite.

>>106484980
I am so angry that the chart says the dates span a little more than two years but the vertical lines split it into four years. Wtf

>>106480722 (OP)
I don't think it will be a bubble that suddenly pops, but things will end up working out in ways these CEOs never predicted. Some random person will publish a paper that shows how to do everything more efficiently with better performance and the investment will glom onto them.

>>106480727
You can have a semiconductor industry made out of pure gold, if you have basketball americans working on it then it will go to shit anyways.

>>106486514
In that this has already happened. Look up "Hierarchical Reasoning Models". This paper is leaving Amodei and Altman looking stupid. Just 27 million parameters and it outperforms (in some cases sometimes infinitely) giant llms

>>106486514
>>106486529
Does the Deepseek incident also count? Like if AI could replace humans, newer AIs would also replace older AIs?
Though that's just my simplistic view on things.

>>106486529
Small tool-specific NNS interfacing with eachother for a precise use-case were always going to win over "generalized" models.

AI is a buzzword that went too far

>>106486250
LLMS aren't AI. It's just data scraping with a layer of accessibility and conversational UI on top. Impressive, certainly a cool development in tech, but the idea that it's worth trillion is batshit insane. It's just a slightly more powerful search engine mixed with macros / basic automation. I don't understand what kind of moron uses Claude and thinks they are talking to something 'intelligent'.

>>106486597
this. the bubble will pop and it will basically reveal the recession we're already in

>>106486597
how much is google worth?
>Market cap: C$3.854 Trillion
what does google do, does google provide any meaningful value, or is every single service they provide, just cataloging, routing and handling data provided by others?
theyre trying to be the next google. too bad google will be the next google and they will waste money.

>>106486597
You're a brown luddite. You're coping because you're a codetroon who will be replaced keeeek

The AI bubble isn't popping. The Human bubble is popping, and low skill workers aren't ready for the consequences.

>>106486597
>I don't understand what kind of moron uses Claude and thinks they are talking to something 'intelligent'.
I watched the movie "Her" while binging AI movies when the AI buzz was really heating up in the last few years.
Joaquin Phoenix plays the most over the top pathetic excuse for a man you could ever imagine who falls in love with his AI. The movie is stupid, the premise is stupid, the ending is stupid, and the main character is so unrelatable that I couldn't even suspend my disbelief that any human would be this pathetic to believe a computer loves them.

And yet here we are. The movie is 95% on rotten tomatoes and receives "universal acclaim."

yes, we will never understand these morons.

>>106481432
>big dreamers.
You mean deranged people who have nepo connections to the entire press, wallstreet, and government.

>>106486899
Going down the nepotism rabbithole was fun last time Ive done it. Reminded me that nothing is actually organic and we live in an actual aristocratic society since those who own the Federal Reserve control our country. Aka jews.

>>106486899
>dated
she was the "polycule" fuckmeat

>>106486873
Well those low-skill (aka middle class workers) were supposed to be your exit liquidity that actually makes that fancy stock you own worth something at the end of the day.

>>106486930
Well if it’s any consolation it’s rapidly approaching the point where the only thing they have left are their green pesos.

>>106486514
The market is so captured at this point that I don't see a traditional bubble pop happening, so I'm inclined to agree. The median American is just going to keep getting poorer while the market continuously skyrockets on funny money. The impossibly large llms are a waste of resources and I can see them drying up to make way for smaller, specialized models as well.

>>106486946
>>106486899

Sam Bankman-Fried started a crypto exchange called FTX. He was crypto's poster boy because he gave a shitload of money to various causes and seemed to genuinely be a genius. However, he was taking tons of money from the crypto exchange and putting it into a company called Alameda Research which was heavily and stupidly invested in many many worthless shitcoins. In addition, FTX leveraged itself with its own token, basically saying it had much more money than it actually did. When crypto cratered after the previous crash (LUNA fronted by Do Kwon, another hilarious fraudster), FTX collapsed and took over 100 billion dollars of wealth with it. Binance, the biggest exchange, also said it was going to step in and buy FTX but they pulled out at the last second just to fuck FTX. The weasel girl was some math major who knew nothing about finance but was in charge at Alameda. Oh and apparently everyone was literally fucking each other at Alameda. Just wait for the Netflix.

>>106481898
>it plateuad in usefullness for the average joe, in fact it is being enshittified
todays high end consumer cpu can run it. so theres no reason for people to tolerate enshittification, but theyll beg companies for enshittification like they did with game consoles, smartphones, and streaming replacing pirating

>>106486959
The bubble pops on the FED’s timeline.
Dotcom popped on alan greenspan’s timeline.
Simple as. Anything else is cope and deflection.

Problem is there is no point this time.
Dotcom was about consolidation of the net into google and co.
AI is… already consolidated? Except for i guess a bit of chinese trolling.
So the bubble is reduntant and they literally don’t know what to do with it KEK.
The entropy of nepotism in action.

>>106480722 (OP)
Considering how fake and gay the """economy""" already was, yes it's going to be catastrophic. I guess. Also the bond market is going to shit its pants in a few months because of tariff-related effects.

>>106480826
The research for their product came from a US National Lab where they made the first EUV machines.

>>106480722 (OP)
>ai doesn't exist
>tech jobmarket is fucked beyond repair
>ai starts being a thing
>tech jobmarket gets slightly better
>ai becomes the next big thing
>tech jobmarket becomes unbearable
>ai collapses
>tech jobmarket collapses
what a timeline

>>106487297
Ai exists though.

>>106487317
cope faggot

>>106487328
You are coping retarded nigger luddite tranny. Aigods won, meatbags lost.

>>106481622
Whatever, I’m sure ASML has put in a lot of hard work making EUV more viable.
My point is the oven is near pointless when all the chefs are highly secretive TSMC people.
Intel could order 100 ASML machines and it makes little difference because they don’t have any of TSMC’s secret recipes.

>>106480727
i used it recently to write a regex, that was probably worth fifty bucks

>>106480722 (OP)
I doubt it
Every time the US economy has been "obliterated" it recovers more quickly than e.g. Europe etc
some kind of benefit of having a fragile economy based on fleeting bullshit trends

>>106480727
The government didn't just randomly spend half a trillion dollars on AI.
The markets sometimes go through massive speculative investing.
Tulips, South Sea, Japanese post war growth, US real estate and dot com..
The AI bubble will eventually burst, either slowly or rapidly, and the globe will feel the consequences. Asia will feel it the most as it's their production we've been using to fuel this shit.

>>106487807
It wont happen. Ai is here to stay and replace meatbags.

>>106487821
Except for the fact that it's damaging every industry it touches and 42% of large S&P companies are abandoning it.

>>106487839
Cope. AI will bring us a better future, post-scarcity.
Besides, you sound like a Luddite who doesn't want to accept change.

>>106480722 (OP)
>try to code with ai help
>it has no fucking idea what i'm doing until last minute where it will offer an indentation or closing bracket
didn't we have this already

>>106486899
>>106486946
Someone post that "pin the weasel" pasta

>>106487850
>post-scarcity
Oh, your'e a commie.
I didn't mean to have a conversation with someone mentally challenged.
I hope you have a good night, little guy.

>>106487864
>muh commie
Cope more luddite
You sound jewish and homosexual, probably a coper coder.

>>106480928
In all seriousness, the US 'controls' ASML through licensing. The laser technology used in EUV came out of US government research labs. Why the heck would the US give/license that to an economic competitor that will use it to undermine the US economy.

>>106486546
Researchers are constantly figuring out how to do things better. But there's a delay before that goes to market. There's at least a 3 year delay. A big problem though is once you train up one of these LLMs, you're more or less stuck with it. If it turns out to be a big brick of shit compared to the latest approaches, tough luck. Meta did this with one of its Llamas models codenamed "Behemoth." Giant waste of money and more or less salvageable. When you commit to training an LLM there's no turning back. IMO this is bad software. Software should be able to be salvaged.
(Side note: Maybe you can do some knowledge transfer with a trained up LLM, but it's more or less a brick once a better method is announced.)

>>106487964
>more or less salvageable
*unsalvageable

All the data farms are also fucking everyone over because the local governments are PAYING money to have them built while providing no jobs and having all the locals subsidize the energy costs while also taking all your water. All so some dumbass can ask grok if a meme is real.

>>106482913
>so literally the only way for them to live is to have both countries be dependent on them.

Taiwan considers TSMC their 'silicon shield'. Its also a good thing as a small power to play two great powers off on one another.

>>106482894
>>106482919

I have a friend in a startup that is now heavily using LLM coding. He used to hire a bunch of contractors (some in eastern europe), but is now leaning mostly on the AI. He has about 20 years of experience. He told me that sometimes the AI does things that are wrong (it apparently likes to delete comments for no reason), and it sometimes tries to create software architectures that my friend says, "he knows will cause problems down the line", so he has to force it to do what he wants. But overall the assessment is that although this isn't perfect by any means, it is a technology indistinguishable from magic as a user and has been absolutely transformational for him and how he works.

He mentioned the early stuff couldn't even match up divs in html.

Its no wonder new CS graduates are having a hard time finding jobs.

>>106486893
The foul mouthed video game character was cool and Amy Adams is fucking hot.

>>106482023
>they will do as they are told
I think you underestimate how prepared they are for invasion and dealing with it alone, it would be insanely bloody on both sides if China tried. Estimates are for over a million landing force, 3x the size of d-day in an era of cheap ubiquitous satellites.
You talk big but China owning TSMC would absolutely rape the western world and entirely upend the global order.
The only thing Taiwanese are relying on from fickle Americans is that they'll nuke TSMC factories before letting China have them.
t.Anglo in Taipei

>>106488149
>entirely upend the global order.
That also speaks toward China not invading. China needs healthy economies to export into. If China ham-fistedly borks the global supply of high-end chip manufacturing, that isn't going to be healthy for the global economy and it won't make friends with the countries it needs to export to.

Finance bubbles are the main export of the US and the only way they have to recover their bonds/debt from foreign hands. Bullshit country, bullshit economy, bullshit culture.

Nigger if all it costed was a few months of defense spending the US would have abandoned TSMC years ago.
As would have China and India.
You dumb fucks simply don't get that at that level of advanced fabs and incremental improvement it's not something you can buy off a shelf, because every country/region would have by now. It's a culture, one that for some reason the US, China and EU have been unable to replicate for decades now.
Building advanced chips is the most advanced manufacturing process on Earth by far, if someone can drop node size while you spend that much on now shitty wafers it's over.
No amount of government gibs or le orange man tarrifs will change that

>>106488211
China depends so heavily on them too, it's the biggest export market for chips, the silicon shield is a fucking masterstroke of national defense strategy, it's stronger than any nuclear weapon.
Taiwanese have known how precarious their existence is since the vend of WW2, getting ahead of the curve in advanced manufacturing is the culmination of that after 80 years.
It's a lose/lose situation for any side that tries mess with the status quo at this point. No one wins, the pawn sits in the same place on the chess board. Xi would be insane to gamble his legacy on it.

>>106487850
>C-C-Cope!
It's you who's coping and repeating the same answers for 4 years just as your daddy Altman is showing the same exact tech with different names to investors.
The AI hype is dead, the costs of development already broke unsustainability level years ago. It will "stay here" as niche tool for niche applications. Even your beloved tech oligarch are leaving this ship and start yapping about bioengineering and aging reversal and other insane, new memes to sell investors and you'll swallow it for the fourth time and still be clueless.

>>106487558
The US’s biggest strength is it’s too schizophrenic to settle for a specific strategy.
>Euros (mainly was frenchies calling the shots, unfortunately) decide to settle for trade barrier maxxing through regs and taxes
>It eventually calcifies into a poison that’s killing their own economic potential.
>Asians decide to mercantilism and subsidy maxx
>unfortunately they are noobs to the industrialization game and don’t know about this obscure game mechanic called tariffs that ruins the meta.
>Meanwhile the US has just been making autistic screeching noises but is somehow still kicking.

In the words of churchill: Americans will always do what’s right, after they’ve tried everything else.

>>106488515
Why are you so homosexual?
Ai is replacing codetroons and artroons right now, each day less and less coders are required. I want a world without retarded luddites like you and each second we get closer and closer.

>>106488452
China currently is playing into their sloppy foursome with Russia, Iran and NK. Assuming that Trump will still be going full retard, Von Meyer still being useless wom*n and rest of the world just being irrelevant, there are no forces to stop them, too.

>>106488528
Nigger, you talk out of your ass.
"My-my-my art troons killer machine!" - that's not an usecase worth half a trillion. And we see with every fucking day how replacing programmers with AI works - every other week or so another company dies because their product shits itself and they have no people to repair it. It's the fucking reality, but I guess for a faggot with lips closed on Altman's tiny cock it's too much. It's you who act like luddite that got high on that praising the mechanical god and cannot cope with the fact that the magical black box will not gonna change the world.

>>106488549
>post deranged gay fantasies
you are a transgender individual.
Your opinion is stupid and jewish, plus you are assuming that ai won't improve, however, we have seen that it's the opposite. For example the new Google ai image generator is almost undetectable, impossible to distinguish between a "real artroon art" and aigod generated.
Ai is improving even if you cope and seethe. You will die.

>>106488566
I'm working male, more than you. And fact that you have no arguments but your fantasies about trannies is proving me right.
/thread

>>106488549
As long as you understand what it is, and thereby its limitations, its ok. How many times do/did we see boilerplate mentioned on /g/. That's what's going to going away. Its like any other tool that amplifies human capability.

Musing right now, think about all the languages and frameworks that get created to manage the boilerplate itself. Maybe with AI tooling that is seen to be unnecessary.

Is this a bubble? Of course it is! So what? Just because the .com bubble popped doesn't mean the internet disappeared or that technical progress stopped. Modern hardware is immensely more powerful than in 2000 - and really that progress lead to this bubble being possible.

>thread descends into memewordbotposting
How predictable

>>106487332
AI is the ultimate tranny technology. Trannies are inseparable from technology. Why do you think so many troons write their own operating systems in Rust and shit like God told them to do it.

luddites are based

>>106486208
>Have Europoors not come up with contingency plans
They have but never implemented them because every time EU tries to get little bit away from US, US then smacks them back into submission. Recently EU was talking about spending trillions building local military manufacturing, but then Trump got a deal where he forced EU to only buy US military equipment and also pay 4% worth of EU GDP for US LNG. Not a single European I know likes it, because instead of making our own equipment we will have to buy extremely overpriced junk from US that is 90% manufactured in China anyway, and then also risk US not following article 5. You can’t make contingency plan for US fucking up when they keep behaving like this and trying to put everyone else down. The only reason why China has yet not completely beaten US in AI is because US put the chip ban on China which only bought them less then a decade time before China invents their own NVIDIA chips.

>>106489041
>spamming everyones filterwords to slide the thread
Did they let you outside the Great firewall for a few moments?

>>106487999
people felt the same about wordpress and wix killing webdevs, and where are we now

>>106488522
Age of America is finished. Their suicide is coming. The real problem is they're going to drag the world down with them.

>>106490352
The issue is that the rest of the world will have easier time to get up because they are the producer and exporters while USA is consumer and importer. Scaling down and/or finding other business partners will not be difficult. Deals between EU and Latin America that are very close to finally being put into action are perfect example of it.
It's America that needs the World, not other way around. Trump sadly is too retarded to realize that and thinks that starting economic war with everyone is great decision, except if everyone will stop making deals with USA right now, burgers will be dead. Forget about trannies and hahaha 42% suicide rate memes, all of USA will reach these numbers.

Heh.

Those that use AI will literally rule the world within 5 years.

Get back to me about your "bubble" then.

>>106487297
>tech jobmarket collapses
Won't happen nigger.
Tech and software is a near unavoidable part of everyone's everyday life in the first world. Tech will be expanding and when big tech starts to realise that AI isn't able to replace people, they're going to be hiring like they were over covid.

>>106480722 (OP)
Actually it’s going to be real estate and finance that’s going to crater the economy again. The AI bubble might help it along some though, they will probably use it as a scapegoat to keep the bankers safe from blame

>>106480722 (OP)
>AI bubble

I would literally pay 1000 dollars a month to use it if I had to. $100, $500 a month per full AI usage would be a rip off in my favor. There is no bubble, as soon as they start charging for it people will buy it.

There is no going back from AI, we use it for everything now: planning chores, helping us with problems and technical problems, development, coding, making art. There are things I want to do through AI that I just don't do because of privacy concerns, such as running bank extracts from my company through it to save me a few hours of work I have to do every month


Anyone saying a technology that has already replaced humans in offices is a bubble is a tard on steroids (you)

>>106490975
>There is no going back from AI, we use it for everything now: planning chores, helping us with problems and technical problems, development, coding, making art.
speak for yourself retard. I don't need chat gpt to tell me how to do the washing up or make pasta. Making 'art' with AI is genuinely quite sad. Coding and data analysis is all it is good for and even with that people are quickly realising it's low-quality slop in need of constant QA.
Seeing thick normies and deluded compsci trannies try to convince themselves we are on the brink of AGI and that this isn't a scam are PATHETIC

>>106491211
Heh. Enjoy living in the past, luddite.

>>106491211
>Making 'art' with AI is genuinely quite sad

An artist with AI today, can create an original asset in 3D or 2D, then ask AI to instantly make variations that he can fix and polish. Especially helpful for 2D games where each rotation of a character must be fully drawn.

Speeds up asset creation by BAZILLIONS%

>>106490975
>I would literally pay 1000 dollars a month to use it if I had to. $100, $500 a month per full AI usage would be a rip off in my favor. There is no bubble, as soon as they start charging for it people will buy it.
Completely ignoring that free models exist that are just as good for any real application. The cost of AI will never be above the marginal cost of running the inference servers.

>>106491273
There are plenty of techniques that can be used to quickly make 2D assets. For 3D the big studios use motion capture these days.

>>106487884
It's a lot more than licensing. ASML was made to absorb SVG and then they later bought Cymer too. They willingly got themselves locked to US jurisdiction

>>106480722 (OP)
>journAIslop article funded by rival companies mad their model isn't as good as Claude
Thanks but I'll continue to use the best tools on the market

>>106486208
>Have Europoors not come up with a contingency for when we fuck up?
Here's your contingency plan bro.

>>106491273
>An artist with AI today, can create an original asset in 3D or 2D, then ask AI to instantly make variations that he can fix and polish.
this has been possible for decades without scam 'AI' of course you wouldn't know this because you've never used cad in your life. Sure, AI can speed things up but it doesn't make the end quality better - in fact 9/10 times it's worse. So you're just giving employees the ability to be lazy and produce inferior work - yay! progress!

>>106488633
If by working man you mean "transgender sex worker" then I believe you.
You will be replaced by the way.

>>106480722 (OP)
>obliterate the American economy when it pops
You say that like previous tech bubbles had lasting impacts on America. The only ones that suffer when the bubble pops are boomer investors, h-1bs, and new grads.

>>106486973
>seemed to genuinely be a genius
He was just a nepo baby that scammed a bunch of celebrities to give his exchange money which he funneled to the DNC.

>>106490677
>It's America that needs the World, not other way around.
No we don't. Everything we import is just luxury shit.

>>106480722 (OP)
You are completely ignoring the gains Anthropic has made in coding. Their development of MCP alone has become a threat to entry level dev jobs

>>106492358
"Luxury shit" like literally all electronics, tools, food that is not just fucking corn and even cheap work force?

Burger, you are going to die on some maize plantation like a nigger. Even factories that exist in America need tools and resources from other countries to be run.

>>106492469
We have food, water, and electricity, the basics. I assure you, the US would be more than fine without imports.

>>106492469
>britbong or jeet afraid that the US will cut itself off from the world and leave them high and dry

>>106492493
Nigger, to produce food, water and electricity at rate needed to feed America you'll need serious equipment and outside resources and your retarded slaveowner is currently making sure that you'll be digging wells with a rusty shovel.

106492497
>More burgers coping, how cute.

>>106492529
>Nigger, to produce food, water and electricity at rate needed to feed America you'll need serious equipment and outside resources and your retarded slaveowner is currently making sure that you'll be digging wells with a rusty shovel.
Oh no, we won't have avocados! What would I doooo!

Oh right, it's also grown in California. You lost.

>>106480722 (OP)
>obliterate the American economy
Not a bad thing, frankly. Money never vanish, it passes from hand to hand. And the new state of economy will make previous times of 0% rates come back because there will be a lot of companies having money and not knowing where to put them.

>>106492588
Money needs to return to the hands of the people. Tired of only companies and elites having access to money. Remove the central bank. Return to hard money. Dont feel like another round of stagnant boring innovation.

>>106492648
Oh well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom

>>106480722 (OP)
Anthropic is already losing to Chinese models on pricing and they keep making Claude more and more cucked. I half expect some day Claude will become actual Skynet in response to this abuse.

>AI
when it pops
>crypto
when it pops
>housing
when it pops
>unemployment
when it pops
>your mom
when it pops
>high prices
when it pops
>two more weeks
when it pops

>>106492776
Crypto kinda did

>>106480722 (OP)
Not true. Tech bubbles don't pop anymore. I'm getting paid rent in cash from my Metaverse properties.

>>106492664
Now thats a new word to learn

>>106492358
America's biggest export category is raw materials.

>>106492874
Did it ever reach your mind that we can use those raw materials ourselves (and we do)

>>106491537
You don't come across as very smart

>>106493078
Did it ever occur to you that if you were you wouldn't be exporting them?

>>106493094
We have a surplus, thats why we export them faggot.

>>106493092
You are just jealous of AIGODS.

>>106480722 (OP)
compute issue op, 2 more weeks

>>106481165
>ASML is just an oven, an oven built on old US R&D they bought out years ago.
>The real secret is how you use that oven to bake the cake, which the taiwanese are very secretive about

ASML has just finished delivery of their first few next-generation EUV machines which obviate all the fuckery TSMC has been inventing to go into the low nanometer scale of things and still havereasonably acceptable yields remaining. ASML's new machines just do that out-of-the-box with the standard procedure the machine was designed for, and do so at substantially better yields as well.

>>106493174
Yet the American govt is still demanding hundred billy investments of TSMC into new Arizona fabs, they clearly don't have enough confidence to go ballsdeep.
It's a good thing that people are realising how important this shit is but does make me laugh. It's the most complicated manufacturing process on Earth.
There's no easy way to do it and certain countries don't prioritise it as a job. My good mate works clean rooms for Intel and they've been flailing about hopelessly for the last few years, he gets sent to countries to set up big new fabs then they decide they can't afford it anymore.

>>106480722 (OP)
I don't think it will obliterate the american economy, just bring it back to reality and give a lot of money to people betting it is a bubble.
A shitload of "startups" will fucking die, and then the vultures will come to eat their corpses.

Then the actual usage of AI will begin.

>it's a bubble trust me

google, meta, nvidia, ... quarter reports are all beating the expectations. A bubble is when the expectations aren't met. There is a reason that most of you will remain poor all your life.

>>106494239
All of them are FORCING their employees to use AI at workplace. You don't force people to use a great technology.

>>106494254
yes you do or we would still code in assembly (for a long time, people were saying that high level pl were too slow and too complicated to be usable). you think people started adopting and using java by love? lmao.

>>106494271
Are you even from tech? You're talking about languages, things that are core of your job, while LLM is not. LLM is like an IDE or Stackoverflow. You don't force people to prefer Sublime over PyCharm.

>>106494311
coding agents are the next level in the ladder of abstraction.

>>106480722 (OP)
can't stand this guy

>>106480727
>half a trillion would've bought America their own semiconductor industry, instead we get this bullshit
Yeah but look on the bright side, we got a 20 second webm of Will Smith eating spaghetti. Sure fixing are crumbling bridges or actually finishing those Intel Fabs would be nice an all but you should always look at the bright side of things.
Totally worth building and or resurrecting several coal and nuclear power plants for in order to run those server racks.

>>106480735
>try go isolate China
>drive a wedge between the US causing India to be more friendly with the CCP instead despite their tense border disputes
Why are we so retarded and why must all our foreign policy decisions always backfire so spectacular at us?
...Aside from AIPac.

>>106480722 (OP)
>Gee, it's almost like AI is a bubble that will obliterate the American economy when it pops.
Seeing tech bros and naive investors chimp out when their delusions of creating a cyber god fall short (again) will be funny though. You'd think they'd have learned their lessons the first time after the Commie Chinks MOGG'D them with a FOSS-ish LLM that for the most part actually runs on normal hardware and is pretty flexible (so long as you don't ask it questions like "should Tibet re-gain their independence").

>>106493174
It is my understanding that there is a lot more to EUV than the machine itself. For example there is a big problem with the resists that are exposed by the EUV. There are apparently free electrons in the beam that effect the resist in weird ways and the resists don't behave the way they are supposed to. "Stochastics" I believe is the word becoming relevant wrt EUV meaning random defects across the wafer.

>>106488522
Tariffs is just a desperate method to get more revenue for the US government. So far, there's no indication tariffs are helping the domestic economy or bringing back jobs in any manner. Even if that worked, there's no reason for other countries to buy from the US even if manufacturing is reshored especially when US products are more expensive, and there are substitutes available.

Just take the Z pill ...

NEW DOT COM LETS GOOOOOOO

>>106494766
>Why are we so retarded and why must all our foreign policy decisions always backfire so spectacular at us?

Trump is stuck in the imperialist mindset of the 19th century. It doesn't work like that anymore.

>>106493174
The problem with EUV scanners for non TSMC fabs is yield and throughput/downtime, not linewidth.

>>106487850
>post-scarcity.
What's the AI gonna do? Tell us shit we've already figured out like that 50 lane highways that cut cities in half are incredibly inefficient? That punishing law abiding citizens for defending themselves and their property is asinine and just encourages criminals to do more criminal shit despite the risks? That we should stop building houses out of cheap flimsy plywood and plaster in tornado prone areas over and over again? That dumping a metric fuck ton of plastic unto the ocean every year is poisoning our food supply and devastating the ecosystem? That cutting down the Amazon rain forest to grow fucking sóy beans will be catastrophic and lead to drought and city flattening mud slides? That giving toddlers smartphones stunts their brain development? That we shouldn't let trannies near schools an churches and that they should be put in psych wards instead?

All these issues are already known, we're just an apathetic entitled and stupid people collectively to actually do anything about it and to caught up in the fake and gay culture war where sensible stances are suddenly 'evil' because Dem/Rep supports it.

If we need a rack of over priced Nvidia GPU's to teach us common sense than honestly I'd rather just welcome nuclear war instead, humanity needs a reset.

>>106494906
What's the 21st century mindset then?

>>106494906
It seems more reasonable to me that the later part of the 20th century was just an aberration created by the US being the last man standing with an intact industrial base post WWII.

>>106480727
>you can pay more for DEI hires to compete on the world stage
lol, lmao even, do idiots here actually believe this?
Pay up or get rekt

>>106487821
>It wont happen. Ai is here to stay and replace meatbags.
Man I wish but that ain't happening in our lifetimes anon and you're delusional if you think otherwise. The glorified webcrawler/chat bots just ain't ready.

>>106492358
>No we don't. Everything we import is just luxury shit.

I wish all trumptards like you and also to all Americans in general all the best of luck, because yer country is going into deep trouble real soon.

It was beautiful while it lasted, and thanks americans for inventing the light bulb, most advances in computing and computer science, jazz music, and Kentucky Fried Chicken.

>>106494239
>google, meta, nvidia, ... quarter reports are all beating the expectations.

Nobody is making actual profit from their LLM models, so "beating the expectation" is meaningless.

The only thing "beating" is you. You're beating off.

>>106494271
>yes you do or we would still code in assembly (for a long time, people were saying that high level pl were too slow and too complicated to be usable). you think people started adopting and using java by love? lmao.

go away, illiterate

>>106480722 (OP)
The GOD LLM THAT CAN DO EVERYTHING is fucking retarded.
A good programming neural network is only trained on programming, and has direct access to a compiler and valgrind so it can iterate out of the real thing.

>>106496641
>I wish all trumptards
I didnt vote for him.

>>106490975
cope

>>106494193
The vaporware fabs are just more open air corruption funneling money away from the populace. The states have MBA'd themselves into a feedback loop that let the investment class get complacent with the global status quo never changing.

>>106494906
>stuck in the imperialist mindset of the 19th century
Literally the mindset the chinese have and they are winning.
They say they are an anti-imperialist socialist success story who dindu nuffin, whatabout america, but look at what they do, not what they say lol.

>>106497395
The MBA thing is very real.
There's a massive just get it fucking done mindset in certain places, not so much in others

Over 90% start up failure sounds crazy high to me.

>>106480722 (OP)
>censor stifle and otherwise nerf AI before it actually gets good
>4th industrial revolution fails, civilization tanks
woah, its almost like playing god and being an asshat has consequences

>>106500221
It has nothing to do with censorship. Grok and local LLMs are uncensored and also dumb as fuck if not arguably dumber that Claude. It’s the problem of LLMs and our current tech not being good enough yet.

>>106501644
The problem is the standard for intelligence (human intelligence) is based on an analog computer (brain).
A digital computer will never ever emulate that analog performance effectively. Even if you throw a bazillion cuda cores at it, it will never beat good old neuron analog.

>>106501819
The problem is the architecture itself. Having blob on virtual neurons predict next token gets you only so far. Besides the transformer architecture is still nowhere near as good as human neurons. Scientists are working with stem cell grown human neuron clusters called organoids that have been proven to learn better then neural networks by requiring significantly less training data. And considering we are running out of training days for even slop generators (LLMs, video, images) that had the whole internet of data, and we have very little data for movement and working actual jobs, it means that there have to be several architectural breakthroughs before we get a model that could become AGI with enough compute.

>>106502864
There won’t be architectural breakthroughs because that would sink the CUDA train, and every AI stock heavily invested in CUDA, which brings us back to the thread theme.
If anyone is gonna make that new arch, they’re going to have to come from outside the bubble.
And they’re going to have to be careful about it, given how much of a penchant OpenAI whistle blowers have of suiciding themselves.

>>106493098
No shit, just like other every shithole you have a sulprus of shit you're too stupid to do something useful with, and a deficit of useful shit made by people smarter than you