Thread 106504831

>developer verification
>can't install random apks anymore
wtf are we going to do when this is applied?!
what's the point of android anymore?!
https://developer.android.com/developer-verification

>>106504831 (OP)
i dont have a dog in this race
but this sounds like you need a modular os
something that you can run on, idk, a raspberry pi or something
and where, on an almost plug ang play basis, you can add the components one would need
then its package agnostic.
i could contribute to that

>>106504831 (OP)
What app is this?

>>106504831 (OP)
is android the only alternative to ios? there's no linuxcuck phone you all use?

>>106504908
linux phones will never be usable
>no optimized apps
>can't send or receive mms
>volte only works on a small handful of carriers
>battery lasts 2 hours at most
>specs straight out of a 10 year old tracfone despite costing more than a base model iphone

>>106504892
Just give me your money
I'll buy beer for that

>>106504908
There's Pine.

>>106504831 (OP)
I'm already never upgrading past Android 10 because Google never fixes anything.

>>106504831 (OP)
I'm just gonna use graphene and anyone who goes "but muh banking apps" isn't rich enough to actually have to worry about needing to access their bank account instantly considering it takes like 20 goddamn seconds to load a website

>>106505007
They said the same about linux gaming.

>>106504894
chatGPT from fdroid

>>106504831 (OP)
The Android development ecosystem is a completely fucked mess anyways. Gradle is a fake jobs program for Eurotrash to tell you you're holding it wrong in the most verbose way possible. Android Studio is dogshit slow unless you're on the latest Mac hardware. Googlers overcomplicate every single aspect of the OS and fuck over indie devs. Your development "resources" are the Android docs (bare minimum for the author to be promoted), cs.android.com, or regurgitated ChatGPT output packaged as Medium articles by Akshat. For your efforts you are rewarded with much less revenue and more annoying third-world users than iOS. Ask any mobile dev, Android apps are basically charity.

Easily the least productive platform I have ever worked with.

>>106505173
And yet it's still much better than iOS development kek.
>muh money
The money in Android lies in b2b obviously

>>106504831 (OP)
Ok, here's the thing: The way I see it, there are two main target market for androids:
Poors, browns and boomers
Tinkertrannoid techfags
The first are retarded and this could be a legit good thing, IF there is a simple enough way for us techfags to disable it, like disabling a flag in the hidden developer mode. This is a win-win situation.
If they fully embrace the apple way and completely disable sideloading, they would lose the techfag userbase because the only reason we buy an android is to have more freedom.
The moment android prevents me from installing apks inna hassle-free mannerx is the moment I'm buying an iPhone.

>>106505202
I work in b2b Android. There is a reason RN, Flutter, and KMP are so popular. The Android dev experience fucking blows. iOS is fucked too, something about mobile in general attracts the complexity merchants. Working on my escape to backend.

The anti-trust verdict is looking more and more like a textbook example of monkey's paw
>google loses anti-trust case and will be forced to allow 3rd party app stores on google play
>announces these restrictions just months later
>effectively makes android like ios in the eu since despite allowing 3rd party app stores, the apps distributed by them still need to be vetted by google

>>106505034
>the eternal problem of foss
one way of getting accountability is by proprietizing the software
but then you remove the accountability for the quality of code (unless youre in the eu, but thats details. you can disassemble programs to integrate them into your toolchain, is what i meant. but that means you can legaloly have seen disassembled code)

>>106505338
Of course it also has the side effect of killing things like Youtube Revanced and NewPipe which I'm sure Google is more than happy about.

>>106505295
Lol fuck off and don't come back please
>kmp
Literally native with extra steps, you don't even know what you're talking about

>>106505453
Obviously KMP is less of a full replacement than RN/Flutter, I included it as an example of companies investing millions of dollars rather than employ someone full-time to deal with native Android autism. The future of mobile is a webview.

>>106505100

linux is garbage for gaming

>>106505295
Very true. Google constantly changes shit just for the sake of changing shit and never fixes bugs. They've made maintaining a Play Store account more labor intensive than writing the app itself. I think they're intentionally creating busy work for unskilled orbiters, a.k.a. diversity.

>>106505702
Gradle is like this too and it's a big part of the Android problem. Impressive how much worse it is than Maven in every metric except speed.
What they don't tell you is you will waste a week of your life searching through their trash docs trying to unfuck Gradle while Maven will just werk, so Maven comes out ahead in the end. Personally I am switching to Amper the fucking second it becomes stable.

>>106505604
>The future of mobile is a webview.
I've heard retards saying this for a full decade, and yet literally nothing changed kek

is this to keep the shitjeets from making fake apps to redeem all their gift cards on?

>>106505980
>Amper
>yaml
Yuck, but still better than gradle's burning trash.

>>106505696
rcs will be the new anticheat for phones lel

>>106506428
My thoughts exactly. FWIW they have said they are open to other languages.

>>106506702
>be jetbrains
>own kotlin
>use improve gradle by introducing kotlin for gradle files
>"hmm time to write our own dependency manager, what should we use for the config files?"
>"why is this even a question? Of course ko-"
>"yaml"
>"huh"
lmao

>>106506785
https://github.com/JetBrains/amper/blob/release/0.7/docs/FAQ.md#why-dont-you-use-kotlin-for-ampers-configuration-files
They might use a Kotlin DSL. Personally I would like to see something like Rust where everything is a .toml (or whatever markup language) with build.rs as a fallback. The use case for Amper is tutorials and the 90% of projects that don't need to do anything unique, not to replace all of Gradle's complexities.

I gave up fighting android studio and just switched to Godot.

>>106505696

even kids can frozen bubble for hours

>>106504831 (OP)
>what's the point of android anymore?!
Yeah, that's exactly what I've been asking myself as well. What's the point if you can on longer freely install software and everything has to go through Goolag anyway? At this point the platform is no longer open. Why shouldn't I buy an iPhone at this point? I'm in the EU so they have to allow alternate app stores even on iPhone, does this post-castration Android really offer me any more freedom than that? I'll have to do my research on this shit but it's looking like the answer might be that it doesn't.

>>106504831 (OP)
switch to iOS
it's over
this was the ONE thing android had as an advantage

>>106504831 (OP)
How does this affect 3rd-party APKs that are already installed?

>>106508615
the notification is from chatGPT wrapper from fdroid. it says it will stop working.
but i'm no coder so idk if it can be circumvented or how.
at first, i thought it would be related to the play protect feature and almost dismissed it but anon's responses made me open a youtube video which straight up said they wouldn't work anymore and it's not a play protect thing.
maybe he's wrong. idk.

>>106505007
>specs straight out of a 10 year old tracfone
Who cares desu? I used my phone in 2015 in pretty much just the same way as I use my phone now, and I think that would apply to most people who aren't into high res photography or whatever

>>106504831 (OP)
Perhaps we're going to see the year of the Linux Phone before the year of the Linux Desktop...
There just wasn't a market for them before now since Android was always there to sideload things and pretend I'm a little more free but now?
Fuck it, this will increase the profit potential for whoever can get linux phone hardware into any kind of appealing state.

Yeah... why would I ever use an Android at that point? iOS is more polished, only thing Android had going for it was installing apps outside of Google Play.

>>106505086
You could just buy a cheap bank device phone, or NFC capable device. Also, use cash and never let digital currencies take hold.

>>106504831 (OP)
Also, am I missing something here but can’t I just root my phone and install literally any other os ?

>>106509079
The amazing thing to me about posts like this is how naive people are about the things that are possible to do. "I have always been able to install Linux on a new motherboard". "I have always been able to root my phone and install a random OS". Accepting as if it were a law of nature that these things simply are guaranteed to be possible, and not actually just features that can be removed at will by hardware manufacturers.

>>106509079
I think the bad part here is just that it will discourage a lot of developers. People can probably break through google's bs if they wanted to but just implication in the grander scheme of things, ios and android are just pretty much the same now.

>>106509061
>iOS is more polished
Xcode is not. Xcode can't even cope with tooling changes made by Xcode.

>>106509366
Yeah all the people whining ITT really haven't tried out actual iOS dev.
Android studio is pretty comfy now and unless you're running a 300 module project, gradle is totally fine too.
Meanwhile Xcode is such a piece of shit it literally BREAKS with each fucking update and the tooling is so limited you hate yourself each time you use it.
On top of that, must utilities are UI only (yes, really) so have fun clicking through a gazillion menus just to archive your app.
Don't forget that simulators are so limited in their functionality, you can't even test half of your app on them.

>>106509114
Okay, remove it, enjoy solving my life's financial problems for me when I end up winning and get my Linux back + never have to work again because you pay me out of your ass.

>>106505007
>can't send or receive mms
Who the fuck even uses MMS in 2025?

>>106509832
I have no idea what you're saying.

>>106509966
Americans, also RCS is a walled garden so you can't get that on a linux phone either

>>106505295
I'm an iOS developer and Apple does not care at all. Their new liquid ass shit breaks some things and they don't care

>>106505078
literally the last good android os

>>106505086
I dont understand peoples obsession with banking on their phone
you have a bank card for payment
you live enough money on your account
you use the fucking website at home when needed (not even once every 2 weeks for me)

>>106510622
My bank forces me to use SMART-ID which is tied to my phone, so banking is impossible without a phone unless I use my credit card.

>>106506474
To be fair, the sim is basically there already. Absolutely botnet.

>>106509114
2 years ago, my zenfone 9 pro broke, I bought a second hand one, tried to unlook bootloader but Asus had disable it (it was online unlock)

So now I make sure to only buy offline unlockables like OnePlus

>>106504831 (OP)
you should be releasing apps via a company in order to have protection, so just use the person associated with the company, which is already public data. this is a non-issue

>>106505295
It's because you're targeting an API instead of a machine. If you look at any non kotlin or java framework, without fail, you'll find codegen building some shitty activity that spawns some basic GL context or WebView.
Exact same problem with web and wasm (I still find it ironic).

You have very little control or freedom and that's why dev on these platforms will always be shit and railroaded by some shitty bindings code.

>>106510629
lmao so you bank doesnt have any old customers who use a dumb phone?

My bank provide these card readers (they all do, so I guess its an obligation by law over here) you plug your card in, enter your pin, you receive a code to log into their website.

They have been trying for years to get me to download their stupid smarphone app (even offering money lol). But I just dont trust my rooted phone, and with the new play store integrity check thing, I guess I wont ever do it.

>>106510666
Goodluck with that. I don't understand what's the point on this app anyway, I wish they'd stop pretending and installed a chip in my hand so I can just hold it in front of a scanner to verify my identity and pay.

>>106504831 (OP)
At this point you just buy a phone for texting and calls, and use it to hotspot for a laptop lol.
They track everything you do on the phone anyway.
Always watching...

>>106506428
I mean, what's the alternative among mainstream config languages?

json sucks, verbose quoting, no dangling commas, no comments
yaml has different specs with different footguns and whitespace makes it visually hard to delimit long items.
toml is literally the shittiest thing I've ever seen. idk wtf that Tom faggot was thinking but I'd rather deal with Yaml any day of the week.
Literally what the fuck? No multi line inline table?
The whole [[x.y.z.totallyanarraybros]] shit? Literally bloat max and unreadable shit.

Everything else is basically NIH tier.

>>106510716
config.h

>>106504831 (OP)
why does this stop random apps?
developers just can verify then the apps can still be made?
or is it beyond just doing that

>>106510741
>have app that google doesn't like
>"oops that app violates our guidelines, sorry you aren't getting the certificate :)"
>now you can't install that app on your phone
This is basically what the problem is.

>>106510748
so it's not developer verification it's per app?

>>106510873
There's literally no difference anon, the point is that google now controls completely what is allowed to be installed on your phone.
Even if they say it's not per app, they can just retroactively revoke your developer license for ""reasons""

>>106510926
Blame Linus Cuck Torvalds who thinks that GPLv2 is enough and that prohibiting tivoization is a bad idea.
I'd like to see the faces of Androidtards who scream that "Android is Linux", no, it isn't, Gentoo is Linux, Android is polar opposite of it.

>>106510939
>somehow this is Linus' fault
Least deranged gtard

>>106510972
>worshipping an ESL

>>106510972
GPLv3 is old enough to consent, you were told that this exact thing WILL happen that long ago anon. It is Linus's fault, It is your fault. You didn't listen, and now you will pay.

>>106510989
>muh imaginary peace of paper will save me
Lmfao

>>106511006
The imaginary TOS will restrict your freedom to install a bootleg app on your phone. It is okay, because it's just imaginary.
Next they will restrict what words you're allowed to say, but that's also okay, because words aren't real.

>In 1983 Matthew Stallman started GNU project. He was sure that he is the chosen one to give users freedom by creating Free Software. This project was not just a technical job, it had political, ethical and social meaning.

>The main target of GNU project was freedom, which anyone has the right to have.

>Freedom includes that users can:

> Run software for any purpose as they wish;
> Have access to the source code;
> Copy the software;
> Modify the program;
> Distribute and share with others.

Restricting this (freedom) is okay, because freedom is just an imaginary word that doesn't mean anything, who cares. Google knows best what I should be able to do on phone that I paid several hundred dollars for.

>>106511018
A certificate based software mechanism is much more than just some magical piece of paper, so your analogy doesn't even work retard.
What I was getting at is that gigacorpos absolutely shit on licenses, as has been perfectly shown with genAI.
Pretending like some more copyleft license would've saved Android from this is just plain retarded

>>106511037
This isn't about the license, this is about your opinion on the matter, and you chose wrong. And none of us will feel bad for you.

Won't Huawei phones become popular because of this? They don't have Google Mobile Services (GMS) so developers don't need this verification to have whatever apps on their phones.

>>106511041
You're too retarded to even understand what my opinion is lmfao

>>106511045
The sad truth is that normie consoomers ultimately don't care because they install their apps from the App Store anyway. This will only affect more techy people

>>106511045
Depends on the implementation. It could be built into android, and be required to be on for gms, making a two tier app system where huawei etc just run their own android forks and app stores. I think it's naive to think that google doesn't have a plan to stop this though

>>106511047
Your opinion is irrelevant, while you were coping about how "imaginary" thing totally doesn't matter, at least several dozen new startups with EULA that says "forced arbitration" started and you are okay with it because it doesn't affect you personally (until it does).

>>106509079
Most phones don't let you root anymore and if you can root then support for another OS is volunteer based. There's still plenty of usable phones out there but if you didn't buy a phone specifically for being rooted then you likely either have to buy a new phone or enjoy the goolag.
I got a OnePlus Nord N30 running lineage and it's a good deal. I won't have to worry about side loading although I pretty much never use my phone as anything other than a phone.

>>106505173
>Eurotrash
uh oh amerikike melty

>>106510629
switch to a different bank and tell them why you're leaving

>>106505173
>by continent
What a stupid way of doing things. Android/iOS majority varies widely by country.

>>106505696
It's respectable, especially with most of it's games being emulated for an OS that runs programs natively (Windows).

Android in comparison runs it's program on top of a virtual machind.

>>106511270
Americans can barely remember continents, asking them to remember countries is too much.

>>106504831 (OP)
I don't personally give a fuck.
I mainly use browser, email app, digital mail, public transit ticket, calls/messages on my phone.

>>106511286
They can remember countries- Japan, Russia, India, Chyna and Israel. Don't ask them to point to them on a map though (except Japan for the zoomers and Israel for the boomers. Those they know just fine.)

>>106511045
>implying the jews won't just outlaw them for (((reasons)))

>>106504831 (OP)
>wtf are we going to do when this is applied?!
Nothing. I just upgarded to android 5.0 because some of my essential apps require it.

>>106505007
MMS and LTE both worked on my Pinephone. The main issue was the abysmal battery life. It was like, two hours. Basically required being plugged in at all times, which was annoying, but since I'm seated at work or in a car when I have it, I made it work.

>>106504831 (OP)
What is a "certified android device" ??? and how is it different from a regular one?

>>106513249
i'm no coder. they name them and link to them. they seem the same as any android shipped phone.
>Hundreds of partners ship Play Protect certified phones and tablets.
>Play Protect certified Android devices are tested for security and performance and preloaded with Google apps. Here is our list of partners that ship these devices.
https://www.android.com/certified/partners/#tab-panel-brands
i wanted this whole thing to be bypassed by turning off play protect like i always do but the message in the OP, the single youtube video i watched about the issue and anons here don't seem to think it will be this easy or don't have an opinion in the matter.

>>106508615
Google can go in and yank an app out of your Android right now if you haven't blocked them from doing so.
If you are running vanilla - you're fukt son.

>>106513848
Good for me that Google services fw, play services and play store are all disabled (still kept around and not uninstalled + scrubbed from /system as a "just in case") and there are no other google apps here.

But I'm worried about when I have to upgrade my phone. This one is already 8 years old.

how do you test android apps during development anyway
>make the app on windows
>put it on your phone
>*please verify ur ID to google before this will run*
what

>>106505696
Ive used Linux exclusively for the last 4 years and I play games every single day without issues
If that's what you call bad then fine but if I had the equivalent experience with a Linux phone I'd use it over Android in a heartbeat

>>106513959
Yes, that's right.

>>106505173
Japan is mostly IOS too. Sars :)

blessing in disguise tbf, hopefully people will realize the only app they need it the browser and we get to keep the web. God I hate phones and phone users so much it is unreal

>>106515194
You should promptly kill yourself.

t. Desktopfag

>>106515194
The browser. An app which soon will only be installable by a verified developer. Verification which can be revoked if the developer violates Google's Terms and Conditions. Terms and Conditions such as "you will not allow users to visit websites we don't want them to go to." That's your solution?

>>106515194
peak delusion

>>106513928
Take the hit and buy a new decent phone right now, keep that as your main phone for the next 8 years.
8 years is a long time, maybe a not-shit Linux phone will be half decent by then.
Unlikely given the freetard plague of sperging out over everything will kill it off due to going nuts over fucking TPMs to allow for secure apps like banking so it will be as shit as a locked the fuck down phone for all intents and purposes anyway.

>>106515194
Based browserchad.
Of course, it is only a matter of time before they murder Firefox which is, as far as I know, the only remaining userscript-capable browser but admittedly I haven't done a hard look.
If it needs root it is shit, so fuck off in advance, nobody is going to do that, this is exactly why they win.