Thread 106524638

What's /g/'s opinion on Nushell?

>>106524638 (OP)
>not POSIX
garbage

it's not posix so it better offer some wild new paradigm to be worth it, what is it doing?
In-band formatted stdout?
Is that it?

>>106524638 (OP)
when it works and the system commands are wrapped, it's pretty good. Much better than manually chasing the right fields with awk.
I have a script that regularly removes the biggest files from my pacman cache besides old kernels and it's much simpler and more extensible than how I'd do the same thing with bash.
Iteration is also much better than in posix shells. This is what initially got me interested

>>106524735
instead of being stringly typed, many commands return tables or at least records. The goal is to eliminate most use of awk and instead just reference the row name.
You can also i.e. map over one row and keep the others intact, which already becomes harder in awk, so if you are stuck with learning a new language (awk vs nu), nu allows you to do it more cleanly
also has `map` function as a builtin, something that you obviously want in a shell that has piping. Much better than
myFunction | while real x; do
....

>>106524638 (OP)
Most retarted garbage I have ever seen. System shells are not some sort of dbms and command prompts should not be a declarative sql-like language.

This retarted functional trend needs to stop.

>>106524638 (OP)
I'll stick to fish, thanks

>>106524835
yeah because one extra pipe with awk is so much better

If powerful transformations are desired, wouldn't powershell be a better fit? It has better support and the ability to use dotnet APIs.

>>106525380
powershell is gay

It's solid. http client is really good on it, I use it for API testing all the time.
working with JSON in a table format is also very good in interactive mode.

That being said, you still be using bash 99% for a job for a long time yet, so there is that.

>>106524638 (OP)
been testing it for a few weeks, I haven't written any scripts yet but I've still been enjoying my time with it.

One of these days I get around to digging into the documentation and exploring more features
- t. chronic cmd.exe user

>>106525380
Both correct and ultimate troll post

>>106524638 (OP)
At some point, just use GUIs instead of pretending you like the cli.
I bet it's written in rust or uses something gay like electron.
Just checked github. Yep, it's rust.

Why does all rustoid software have this same exact look and feel and misfeatures
Another example is ripgrep, which by default ignores binary and hidden files and respects your .gitignore, which is on the surface a convenient feature but actually makes no sense
I think it's because like >>106525816 said they actually prefer GUI to CLI and just use CLI for aesthetics

>>106525816
>>106525996
do you two use vim or emacs?

>powershell sucks, let's copy it, with rust
???

>>106524695
>>106524735
>there are still people out there who pretend to care about POSIX
Grim.

>>106525816
I fucking hate using the mouse.

>>106526030
and it's beautiful

>>106525380
You aren't wrong. I'd say powershell is more the earlier experiment in this kind of shell, and while it definitely does see use most people sort of regard it as something that they wish they didn't need to learn when the need arises.
>>106524638 (OP)
Bash is fine when bash is fine. Drop into python once you start needing to do more substantial data manipulation. Drop into C++ when you feel like you just haven't been fucked enough this week. I've never had a problem with this approach.

>>106526675
Does it have every .net lib at its disposal?

>>106524638 (OP)
in bash this is just ls -lS by the way

Could be good. Haven't gotten into it really. If it's less retarded to use, I could see it being a replacement for stuff like jq at least.

>PowerShell Rewritten In Rust
>No .NET library or any library for that matter
>Not POSIX compliant
>Flies in the face of UNIX text-based format philosophy
>Output tried way too hard to be appealing, like a web designer's attempt at a console interface
I don't understand who this is supposed to be for. People who want an object-oriented cross-platform shell already have PowerShell, which does everything Nushell does, but better. People who care about UNIX philosophy would call object-oriented an anti-feature and have better native shells.
I guess it's a fad for rust developers to fit in with other rust developers, but that has no appeal for me.

>>106525380
You can't build powershell from source. It's cmdlets are slow and there is a wide gap between Windows and Linux and the differences between 5.1 and 7.5.
You'll find weird problems like Out-File -Encoding UTF8 adding a bom or you'll somehow get a variable to be "optimized" and thus break your whole session or learn the exciting trivial differences between psobject pscustomobject or some other bullshit .NET type.
Probably the only good thing about powershell is P/Invoke via Add-Type and some Cshart vomit.

If you deal with windows all day and have to have a similar experience, sure. But really powershell fucking sucks honestly.

>>106526762
>powershell is more the earlier experiment
powershell is just a dotnet knockoff of the Symbolics Genera Listener.

abandonware, but had nice ideas

>>106525996
>ripgrep
mkfifo .gitignore

breaks ripgrep
it's funny

>>106524638 (OP)
I use whatever the default shell on my operating system is.

>>106529164
Using Command Prompt is just masochism.

>>106529164
based

>>106524638 (OP)
Gay name. Reminds me of nu males.

>>106524638 (OP)
I like fish but a UNIX PowerShell clone is something I’m rooting for from a LONG ways away

>>106529257
You are uncultured

>>106526762
PowerShell is intimidating/unpleasant to learn but once you get it you love it.

>>106526876
Oh look it’s another episode of “let me deride Microsoft products with false facts because I’m blindly antagonistic to Microsoft without knowing anything”
https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell

>>106530459
>UNIX PowerShell clone
What? PowerShell already runs on all the same platforms Nushell does.

>>106524638 (OP)
It passes structured data around which alone make it infinitely superior to all the outdated garbage that would have long since been relegated to the history books if programmers weren't subhumans that love to die on the hill of "good enough" for retarded reasons.

>>106524795
>>106524638 (OP)
>>106530459
So basically it's just powershell for trannies. You know you can install the OG powershell on Linux now, right?
>>106530486
This. I was never big on scripting languages in general until I put in the time to learn Powershell
>>106525996
>which by default ignores binary and hidden files and respects your .gitignore, which is on the surface a convenient feature but actually makes no sense
it does shit like that because they were so autistic about squeezing the last few % of speed out of it (because speed is their ONLY redeeming feature aside from being written in LE RUST), and of course the easiest way to make stuff faster is to do less work.
Not saying that's a bad thing, usually your .gitignore contains useless files which you don't care about, but having a search tool interact with a version control system's files seems a bit weird.

>>106525996
>>106532000
Respecting .gitignore is because ripgrep isn't a "grep replacement" but rather an "ack" replacement.
Yes the name is hilariously accurate.
"ack" is a Perl script for developers to prettyprint grep/git-grep in a project, it was never intended to replace grep, but rather "improve productivity" and make things pretty UwU oh-my-grep!
That's where ripgrep, and really all the rust projects, inherit trannyisms from.
"ack" was doing the .gitignore thing first, if you don't count git-grep of course.

>>106524695
>>106526036
Bourne/POSIX/ksh/bash is indeed overrated, but the thing is that every non-POSIX shell has been a complete dumpsterfire, starting with csh.
zsh is acceptable (without oh-my-zsh tranny shit) because it's mostly ksh derived, making entering commands mostly homoiconic with POSIX/bash.
csh, fish, elvish, nushell, Powershell, all total garbage.
There is one exception, and that is Plan 9's rc, fucking beautiful.
It fixes everything wrong with Bourne without tranny shit.
It's as fast as dash, with proper arrays.

>>106524638 (OP)
I use fish as my interactive shell. For scripting, I either use posix shell for compatibility, or a real scripting language such as babashka.

>>106531366
No, that makes it inferior
Just like there have been 1000 attempts to make a programming language that's not based on plain text files, and all of them failed and are awful to use
Plain text is just better and more productive

>>106532435
>rc
it still doesn't have traps does it?

>>106532435
>Some boomers 40 years ago failed to make a proper shell, which means we can't evre change this shitty design
unixtard

>>106538437
Go ahead and change if you can improve it. But change for the sake of change is retarded.

>>106525564
Here's a snippet for people who use jellyfin and often need to rename tons of files. This adds the `ep` column to the ls table to build new filenames from
let table = (ls | where name =~ '\.mp4$' | select name | merge ( get name | parse --regex '.*S06E(\d{2}).*') )

>>106526025
I do use vim, why?
Are you trying to say I'm being a hypocrite because a TUI is just a terminal GUI?
The difference is I'm not trying to turn every cli into a semi-GUI. A few programs benefit from GUI-like interactivity, like htop and vim, but I still use the good old ls, git, grep, etc. the way God intended because it's an excellent way to interface with my system and doesn't really need improvement.
I could edit a file with ed, but that's a case with the cli isn't a good fit for the job. And sometimes I do just put a ps or pgrep command on a watch loop.

>>106540124
In PowerShell, this is just:
gci *.mp4 | select Name, @{ n = 'ep'; e = { if($_.Name -match 'S06E(\d{2})') { $matches[1] } } }

>>106540124
ls | where name =~ '\.mp4$' | select name | merge ( $in | get name | parse --regex '.*S06E(?\d{2}).*') | each { ln $in.name $"($target)/($SeriesName) S06E($in.ep).mp4" }

>>106540248
I could live with that but think the nu version is a bit less unreadable

>>106539294
change for the sake of change is called "progress", chud, and you'll fucking well like it or be out of a jerb.

>>106538437
That's not what I said at all.
What I said is that every attempt to make a better shell has been a failure except Plan 9 rc.

>>106524638 (OP)
>Nu
I hate that name.

>>106540124
>>106540536
none of these do anything lmao

>>106539294
>>106542653
powershell is already 10x better than bash could ever be, thoughever
all you need to do is maybe add a few Linux-specific features and it's ready to become the default shell on linsux. maybe having to use the CLI wouldn't be quite so cancerous if the shell was designed with more data manipulation capabilities than "haha it's a string"

just fucking learn awk holy shit
it's NOT that complicated even if it looks deranged
just open a tutorial and fucking integrate the information. it will solve all this dumb fucking shit you all do with new shells and new file parsing paradigms and shit... the solution already exists.

>>106530472
I highly highly doubt this was the inspiration for the name

>>106524638 (OP)
Yes because what we desperately need right now is another shell.

>>106543934
The whole point of object-oriented shells is that the data carries the layout and type information with it so you can avoid parsing text like a caveman.

>>106524638 (OP)
>powershell but kebab-case

>>106543615
Oh look its the Microjeet shill.
No, OOP is a mistake, and combining OOP with FP is an even bigger mistake, combining OOP+FP+Shell sounds like an unholy abomination straight from the gates of hell, and the verbosity of Powershell makes it literally unusable.
The way to fix Bourne's/POSIX string data woes is with proper and elegant arrays, which is what rc does.

>>106545361
>No, OOP is a mistake, and combining OOP with FP is an even bigger mistake, combining OOP+FP+Shell sounds like an unholy abomination straight from the gates of hell, and the verbosity of Powershell makes it literally unusable.
"Literally unusable" but I learned powershell in 2 hours and used it to start organizing my messy file structure and batch convert a bunch of videos and merge subtitles into them and all that kind of crap. Meanwhile if I tried to learn python or some other shitlang like that I'd still be wondering "what the hell is an AttributeError"
Powershell is just Microsoft Python but better

>>106546305
Buy an ad, Pajeet.

>>106524638 (OP)
cringe and gay

>>106546394
Yes, sir. Python Brahmin language sir.
Meanwhile, white people just use the best tool for the job. And PowerShell is a more powerful tool than bash + python.

>>106543934
so you really think we should forever be stuck with referencing table fields by index instead of column name just because some guys 50 years ago used that? It's obviously more readable and even faster to write because you don't have to count columns all the time

this jeet is bumping just to argue with himself lmao

>>106524638 (OP)
>nushell
>nu/g/
>nulife
absolutely nu-ts

>>106524638 (OP)
powershell, but somehow even gayer

>>106524638 (OP)
Nushell for numales.

noob here, what are the shells used for? I assume it's to get custom output on screen but in what ways is this really useful for the common person? would appreciate any examples

>>106550298
It's a kind of retrocomputing-adjacent hobby where people try to relive the glory days of 1970s text-based computers before graphical displays were common. Don't worry about it.

>>106550318
it's an interesting experiment, I guess it would work nicely with RSS feeds?

>>106550347
(cont)
could you even build a 4chan reader with filters in shell?

>>106550298
You mainly use it to call programs. Sometimes even the same program but with different arguments. Anything more than that then you might as well write a Python script.

>>106550298
creating hardlinks
mass editing / downloading/ renaming files
I have some scripts to quickly extract multiple clips from a video file

the biggest advantage is that once I notice I do something often, I can quickly automate it

>>106530511
Did you even read it retard? My distro does not package it because it can't be built from source. nixpkgs serves it as a binary flake. Fedora does not ship it.

>>106550298
TUI browsers like lynx are also a good way to debloat websites if they don't use cloudflare.
I read substack or medium articles that way to not get popups and evade other engagement-driving techniques

>>106524638 (OP)
I tried it, it does way more than what I need a shell to do, and I couldn't be bothered to learn it. Also, there was something annoying about it, I don't remember exactly, but I think that I had to press tab twice in cases where I'd usually just press it once. I went back to fish.

>>106550407
>imageboard reader in shell without images
retard

>>106526030
>>106526874
>>106525816
>>106525996
>>106526030
>>106532345
>rust
GOOD MORNING SAAR, YOUR OBSESSION IS GROWING I SEE

>>106550643
https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell/blob/master/docs/building/linux.md

>>106551335
81 replies and 3-4 images, clearly you are the retard since the images have no bearing on this discussion at least.

>>106551382
>Installing the toolchain is as easy as running Start-PSBootstrap in PowerShell. Of course, this requires a self-hosted copy of PowerShell on Linux.
So you can build it from source as long as you first download and execute an unknown binary blob from Microsoft. What could possibly go wrong? It's not like Ken Thompson wrote a paper on this exact scenario.

>>106551335
there was some ssh "image"board where you could download and upload images via ftp if you so wished

>>106524638 (OP)
That's just powershell, but somehow more transgender.
>>106530486
Well said.

>>106545361
>verbosity of Powershell makes it literally unusable.
I hear this criticism all the time, but I don't understand it. Do you people never press the TAB key to auto-complete anything?
Do you not realize that powershell commands and parameters are case insensitive? Do you not realize that Powershell allows users to abbreviate parameter names to their shortest non-ambiguous prefix?
'verbosity' is easily the laziest most uninformed criticism of powershell, and it always seems to come from people who have used it for less than 60 minutes in total.

>>106551622
I know you're joking around but that goalpost move was actually funny.

>>106553410
>abbreviate parameter names to their shortest non-ambiguous prefix
>solve a leetcode medium in your mind every time you want to run a command
el oh el

>>106553539
The fact that you don't even understand what I meant says everything I need to know.
Try boosting your reading skills, it might help you learn new technology.

>>106543615
>powershell is already 10x better than bash could ever be, thoughever
what drug are you taking?

after trying out a bunch of different shells (and other replacements for other programs), i eventually just settled on vanilla bash. is it the best? no. but the convenience of using something that is tried and true, and ubiquitous, trumps my desire for convenience in other ways. for every time i read a guide and they use bash because it's the standard

>>106555932
There's massive value in common tools, the same way we all speak English.

Rustoids know and understand this. Their goal is not to be lonely schizos doing something different from everyone else, but to convince everyone to use what they use so that it becomes the new standard. That's why they are obnoxious activists. It's not a coincidence that the same people try to change English by introducing new words and redefining old ones.

>>106524638 (OP)
it fixes some surface level issues of powershell, like the retarded naming conventions and some more substantial ones, like not being slow as shit and reliant on a massive fucking OO-pilled runtime,
but at the end of the day it still misses the point of a shell.

A shell is a called a shell because it's the outer layer of a system.
The layer that provides easy access.
All it should do is make it easy to glue different pieces of software together. Not be a large system in an of itself.
If it presented itself as just a data-processing repl, I'd be much more sympathetic to it. But the idea of using something like this as a replacement for bash or dos-shell is laughable.

>>106538437
>failed
having a truly universal interface and being stable and supported literally anywhere is a billion times more valuable that whatever feature you think might be missing from normal, text-based shells

>>106550298
shells provide a user interface that is multiple orders of magnitudes simpler than literally any GUI solution.

If you have some piece of software, then you want to use that software without literally compiling a new executable for every single usecase.
But brining in any GUI-Framework or coding one from scratch would not only be a massive dependency and liability but would most likely kill portability and scripting potential.

shells just let you run programs with the simplest means possible. Just write some words to specify what program you want to run, give it some extra words to tell the program what specifically you want to do, and it spits out any result or errors directly as text.

Use cases? literally everything that doesn't require graphical output, which is like 98% of all computing.

>>106559031
>having a truly universal interface and being stable and supported literally anywhere is a billion times more valuable
so you agree that Win32 is the only stable ABI on linux and that Powershell > Bash because there are more Windows systems with it preinstalled than Linux systems (plus PS works on Linux too). ok freetard, I accept your concession

>>106559301
powershell doesn't have a universal interface, and also isn't particularly stable, and also sucks ass in general.
I do agree that the dos-shell and batch-script is superior to nushell though.

When it comes to the Win32 API, I'll jus say that compared to how Apple and Google treat mobile devs, Microsoft is also an absolute saint when it comes to not breaking existing code.

>>106559461
>powershell doesn't have a universal interface
The CLR? You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>106559497
>You have no idea what you're talking about
You have no idea what I mean by universal.
Every serious OS can do text, even embedded ones, every serious programming lanugage can do text.
We had text before we had operating systems and programming languages, after all, programming languages are built on top of text.
They could deal with text since the very beginning and they will as long as computing exists.

How many systems can deal with .NET objects? One? Maybe three if you count the different .NET implementations? But even those can't just pass objects between each other. It's not even remotely comparable.
Of course powershell CAN to text. But at every step of the way it tries to railroad you into it's much smaller world of .NET stuff and gets in the way of just dealing with text.

>>106559605
What you mean is complete nonsense. Text is not a "universal interface", it's unformatted data. Data that you have parse manually into an ad-hoc type system with other utilities like awk. Finish school before you come here rambling nonsense.

>>106559703
Text is useful the same way that a plain white piece of paper and a pencil is still one of the most powerful and useful tools in this year 2025.
There's a reason all programming languages still rely on plain text files and not on some structured DOM monstrosity. All attempts to do it differently have failed. Plain text is just better.
You are suggesting to replace a plain white piece of paper with some bureaucratic form. It will work well for exactly one use case, and will be useless for everything else. But you seem like a nocoder and probably worse, a data scientist, so you probably won't get it.

>>106559703
have you considered that, maybe, the SHELL, the OUTSIDE LAYER of your system. doesn't need complex typing? Or even shouldn't have it?
If you're constantly doing cumbersome string parsing then I suggest you write the thing you wanna do in an actual programming language and not a shell language. It's not that much more effort.

>>106559857
>have you considered that, maybe, the SHELL, the OUTSIDE LAYER
How is this relevant?
>your system. doesn't need complex typing? Or even shouldn't have it?
I have and through years of usage learned it is better have. What argument do you have against it? No, "learn separate language for shell, script, and programming just because you can" is not an argument.

>use bash with a random third-party tool that outputs formatted data
>parse it with awk, same as everything else in bash
>use nushell/PowerShell with a random third-party tool that outputs formatted data
>???
>probably still have to use awk or write some data-aware nushell plugin for your third-party tool

bash is just better

It seems nice and colorful. Call me a fag but I like my tables, I hate having to intuit which column is which, especially timestamps.
I doubt I'll use it though, out of sheer inertia plus I already use three shells, adding a fourth whose niche is pretty tables seems wasteful.
>>106540223
Well spoken. The core root of what makes CLIs great is their modular and flexible nature. Vim doesn't break that principle, hell it refines it (e.g. bash ability to open vim to edit a long command before running it.)