Thread 106565175

I genuinely don't understand the point of getting a Mac, unless you're already a longtime Mac user and are just used to it.
>if you don't like something about the UI then that's too bad because MacOS ricing is impossible
>All your programs are on Windows and/or Linux anyway
>Meanwhile there's so many apps that just aren't on Mac and can't be properly emulated due to ARM
>You don't even have USB-A anymore. Each year Apple just removes more and more ports from their products
>Middling hardware that is outmatched by Windows prebuilts costing less than half as much
>Any Windows machine in a Mac's price range will be orders of magnitude more powerful
>Can't upgrade your hardware with off-the-shelf components
>You can't even swap components between Macs because they're all soldered on
>You're paying thousands of dollars just to not even get an OLED display
>You get an LCD
>Said LCD is only 60Hz btw
MacOS has prettier graphic design than modern Windows but aside from that I seriously do not see the point. What's the psychology of the Mac user?

>>106565175 (OP)
Luke smith made a great video about this once, basically Apple products are about status not utility.

>>106565228
I don't have issues with my PC, though. Furthermore, anyone who thinks a Mac is somehow not a personal computer is a moron who has been enchanted by Steve Jobs.

>>106565250
>I don't have issues with my PC
Not everyone is a tech person like us. You won't believe how many people out there struggle to use a computer

>>106565277
>Not everyone is a tech person like us
I'm not a tech person. I bought a computer and it worked.

>>106565175 (OP)
It's for people who want decisions made for them.

>>106565175 (OP)
to have sex with high quality women.

>>106565175 (OP)
>Middling hardware that is outmatched by Windows prebuilts costing less than half as much
>Any Windows machine in a Mac's price range will be orders of magnitude more powerful

That's not true anymore with the M chip Macs. They have great single core performance at least.
They're only expensive if you need more storage and RAM.

Plus macOS is much more user-friendly.
Normies can't really use Windows efficiently, even basic shit is difficult for them, they get overwhelmed with ads, updates...

>>106565175 (OP)
Macbooks make perfect sense because of how energy and thermally efficient their processors are. I don't see the point in MacOS if you're going to be using something plugged to a wall 24/7 though.

>>106565175 (OP)
>orders of magnitude more powerful
This is a pet peeve of mine, similar to people using "exponential growth" to mean "quick growth".
"Order of magnitude" means something specific. It doesn't just mean "lots". That Windows prebuild might well be faster but it won't be 100x or even 10x.

I bought an M2 MBA for 770€ and it looks good, feels good, it's very fast and the battery lasts about 12-15 hours. Even the speakers are decent for a laptop.
It runs our work software and office so I can work on it perfectly fine, and it also runs the kind of games I'd want on a laptop like Balatro.

What's not to like? It's perfect.

>>106565175 (OP)
Tax on Homosexuality

>>106565349
opportunity cost for retardation.

>>106565175 (OP)
>USB-A
thunderbolt is 10 times faster

>UI
best UI ever actually

>All your programs are on Windows and/or Linux anyway
where is FInal Cut and Pixelmator for WIndows/Linux?

>outmatched by Windows prebuilts
>Any Windows machine in a Mac's price range will be orders of magnitude more powerful
how much is a windows perbuilt with 128GB of VRAM and 8 memory channels?

>OLED
consumer OLED is a huge meme for poorfags

>>106565407
>thunderbolt is 10 times faster
How does this help with my peripherals? I don't need gigabits of speed to use a bloody microphone.
>best UI ever actually
Totally subjective, and if you don't like it you're screwed because you can't change a damn thing about it.
>where is xyz
By all means give Tim Cook $4000 so you can use a bad Premiere and Photoshop clone
>how much is a windows perbuilt with 128GB of VRAM and 8 memory channels?
A Mac with 128GB of RAM costs over 7 grand in Australia. Meanwhile, any Windows prebuilt lets you replace the RAM with off-the-shelf components, so the price of a Windows prebuilt with 128GB of RAM is itself almost irrelevant. Yet I still still humour you in order to demonstrate the validity of my stance: I can see Windows prebuilts featuring 128GB of RAM on top of an i9 and a better GPU, all to be had for 3 grand.
>consumer OLED is a huge meme for poorfags
Are you kidding me? Is this your cope—that IPS screens are premium?

>>106565407
>thunderbolt is 10 times faster
How does this help with my peripherals? I don't need gigabits of speed to use a bloody microphone.
>best UI ever actually
Totally subjective, and if you don't like it you're screwed because you can't change a damn thing about it.
>where is xyz
By all means give Tim Cook $4000 so you can use a bad Premiere and Photoshop clone
>how much is a windows perbuilt with 128GB of VRAM and 8 memory channels?
A Mac with 128GB of RAM costs over 7 grand in Australia. Meanwhile, any Windows prebuilt lets you replace the RAM with off-the-shelf components, so the price of a Windows prebuilt with 128GB of RAM is itself almost irrelevant. Yet I will still humour your fully-prebuilt criteria in order to demonstrate the validity of my stance: I can see Windows prebuilts featuring 128GB of RAM on top of an i9 and a better GPU, all to be had for 3 grand.
>consumer OLED is a huge meme for poorfags
Are you kidding me? Is this your cope—that IPS screens are premium?

>>106565511
>How does this help with my peripherals? I don't need gigabits of speed to use a bloody microphone.
because you can daisy-chain multiple devices on a single port, retard
128GB of RAM on top of an i9 and a better GPU
try finding one with 128GB VRAM

>>106565175 (OP)
>>if you don't like something about the UI then that's too bad because MacOS ricing is impossible
>>All your programs are on Windows and/or Linux anyway
>>Meanwhile there's so many apps that just aren't on Mac and can't be properly emulated due to ARM
sounds like you never used a mac, my config is more similar to my hyprland desktop than I ever could on windows

>>106565527
>because you can daisy-chain multiple devices on a single port, retard
Dude, I just want to plug in my USB devices without having a life support machine hooked up to the Thunderbolt port
>try finding one with 128GB VRAM
Hahaha, Macs have literally 0GB of VRAM. The GPU on even a top of the line M4 iMac has to use the CPU's main memory instead—and that main memory ain't even GDDR5, either.

linux-scares HR/IT/bossman
windows-gross and like half the devs admit they need WSL to achieve a remotely usable DX
mac-a shitty 3way compromise between unix ish for a dev, jailed enough for IT, and normie enough for HR and bossman to calm tf down

>>106565527
Virtually no one who makes money out of AI is running heavy models on their personal device at home. There aren't that many use cases of 128GB VRAM

>>106565569
>pic related is a "life support machine"
due to being located inside the cpu package, among other things, the RAM/VRAM on mac have MUCH higher bandwidth and lower latency than a regular PC ram. it's perfectly suitable for GPU tasks. in fact, the (relatively small) performance difference compared to desktop GPUs are due to raw power and not the memory.
now try to find a machine, enterprise or not, that has 512GB VRAM
>>106565615
cope

>>106565628
Cope what? We both know you don't have a 128GB VRAM model, almost no one does, because it's an extremely niche use case. It's worse than people who buy a lot of RAM just to brag about it, at least these people are bragging about something they own and not about a rare product configuration

>>106565656
there's many people running LLMs, doing image generation or training models locally. and even if you don't consider hobby uses as being valid, for a startup or someone wanting to build a product, a single mac with 512GB vram is MUCH cheaper than an array of H100s while also using a fraction of the power.
your argument is basically
>because I don't see any use for it personally, no one else does either

>>106565628
>due to being located inside the cpu package, among other things, the RAM/VRAM on mac have MUCH higher bandwidth and lower latency than a regular PC ram
With all due respect, that's completely fucking absurd. The RAM in a Mac is not just glorified L3 cache, mate. The exact position of the RAM doesn't make a bit of difference when the transistors are communicating at almost lightspeed—unsurprisingly, the type of RAM is extremely important to its speed, and without GDDR5 you're just not going to have competitive graphics/encoding applications. God dammit, even Steve Job wouldn't have gloated this hard
>now try to find a machine, enterprise or not, that has 512GB VRAM
Find me a Mac that has more than 0GB of VRAM, ROFLMAO. Also, 512GB Macs cost like, 10 grand? Buying any Windows prebuilt and slapping in 512 gigs of RAM (because you're actually fucking allowed to) will be INFINITELY cheaper, like half the price altogether. Are you really insinuating that the convenience of having RAM preinstalled is worth a $5,000 surcharge? Are you on drugs mate, or just fucking stupid? If you are doing the sort of shit that needs 512GB of RAM, you are already an engineer over equipped to just fucking slot some extra RAM into a Windows prebuilt. It's literally like fucking Lego. Fucking LEGO.

>>106565696
On the industry side, CUDA is going to be a much bigger factor than having 512GB VRAM in a single SoC.
I'm talking about real use cases, you're making scenarios that you yourself will probably never be affected by.

>>106565731
bait or mental retardation

>>106565760
Macs have no fucking VRAM, get fucked to dumb cunt ESL.

>>106565768
>get fucked to dumb cunt ESL.
ironic

>>106565228
>>106565175 (OP)

>>106565696
>a single mac with 512GB vram is MUCH cheaper than an array of H100s
Use case for either?

>ricing on mac is impossible
skill issue.

>>106565893
So how do you make that look like Windows 7 instead

>>106565175 (OP)
If you want a laptop the alternatives are either cheap plastic shit, gaming laptops that weight too much and have no battery life and high and laptops wich costs way more than some baseline macbook. works great for dev stuff, maybe there are some oddities when you want to do C development and use gcc instead of clang but idk

>>106565902
you wouldn't do that unless you're a retarded cuck

>>106565893
>main.c
>new int[

>>106565914
yup.
started learning C a couple of days ago. Only used python and bash before. Not my fault cpp autists couldnt just stick with C like normal people and had to infect everything

>>106565913
>Yeah you can definitely rice on Mac!
>Ummm...well, you can't but it's good that you can't because it makes you le cuck!
Kek, instantly moving your goalposts upon being challenged.

>>106565924
based, anon. keep learning, I'm just taking the piss.

>>106565932
>ricing is turning something into windows 7. If you cant make it look like windows 7 it's not ricing!
complete retarded pissery. Not expecting less from windows worshipping cum slurpers

>>106565937
thanks anon. I did feel really proud about fixing the issue myself. It was a small code snippet i had copied that had that cpp autism in it and i figured it out. felt good.

>>106565932
because no one was retarded enough to make a w7 rice for you to download and apply.
if you see that ss and think it's impossible to make something like windows 7 yourself from scratch you're either a nocoder or a retard.
not a surprise coming from a loonix user that does nothing on their """computer""" other than ricing it all day.

>>106565966
thinking about it this anon is right. i did the bar with the widgets myself in bash and the retarded scripting language for the bar. It has support for opacity and to display pngs on it too.. like this anon said it would be very easy to make it loog like tha faggy windows7 bar.

>>106565966
Where the fuck did Linux come from? You can make modern Windows look like Win7 lol

>>106565175 (OP)
It's not Troonix. Corporate IT cringes when u ask for a Linux machine so this is the second best option for devs.

>>106565175 (OP)
>iMac and Mac Pros
Useless. Build your own PC. Get your own monitor.
>Mac Mini
Not a bad option to give to your parents. Little to no maintenance.
>Macbook
The thing I'm using right now. It's an air, priced accordingly. It's sturdy, light, reliable, has awesome battery power, a great ARM powered CPU and an even better screen. I use it for browsing and coding, meaning no gaming or heavy video editing... and I love having a *nix environment which doesn't look like riced out KDE shit. Apple is the only company who did a *nix based desktop OS right.
Cons: soldered on RAM, absolutely no aftermarket upgrades available, and the usual Apple tax for replacing a battery if I ever need to do that.
I would gladly go with a non-mac PC, but the comparable ThinkPads and Elitebooks are the same price and kinda look like jeet shit.

>>106565990
people that use windows don't call it 'ricing'.

I like osx for deep webbs. It’s safer. Can browse and not worry about any compromise of my machine. You can send me to the most ad infected website and I’ll come out untouched on OSX. Also, Can browse in style instead of the sad Linux/bsd ui’s.

I also game on mine. I play wow for a couple hours a day for the nostalgia. Nothing serious anymore. It’s nice to game on a quiet mac instead of a loud jet engine pc.

It’s impossible to be infected on a Mac. Very safe machine and solid freeBsD performance.

Also a Mac screen is just more beautiful IMO. Dunno why windows today still looks like windows 95 to me.

>>106566053
Google "Windows Ricing" then come back to me.

>>106566091
>It’s impossible to be infected on a Mac.
Got AIDS yet?

All anti-mac posters are just poorfags who can't afford it.
/thread

>>106565175 (OP)
Don't worry about it, macs are just for non-tech users who care about status signalling more than about utility.
Oh, and also it's certified UNIX™

>>106565175 (OP)
>orders of magnitude
you don't even know what this means do you?

>>106565175 (OP)
>if you don't like something about the UI then that's too bad because MacOS ricing is impossible
ricing is for people with too much time on their hands, I just learn to use the GUI in it's default state
>All your programs are on Windows
But then I would have to use Windows
>and/or Linux
lmfao
>Meanwhile there's so many apps that just aren't on Mac and can't be properly emulated due to ARM
such as?
>You don't even have USB-A anymore.
Why would I need that?
>Middling hardware that is outmatched by Windows prebuilts costing less than half as much
Wrong
>Any Windows machine in a Mac's price range will be orders of magnitude more powerful
Wrong
>Can't upgrade your hardware with off-the-shelf components
Why would I need that?
>You can't even swap components between Macs because they're all soldered on
Why would I need that?
>You're paying thousands of dollars just to not even get an OLED display
fair
>Said LCD is only 60Hz btw
Why would I need more, it's not gaming machine?

>>106565175 (OP)
It works with my iPhone unlike Windows/Linux and nobody makes a decent small phone except Apple.
That's my one and only reason for owning a Mac.

>>106565175 (OP)
The UI feels like home, the first party apps are actually useful, the machine is quiet at all times, everything is synced with my iPhone. I also have a powerful Windows workstation for work and gaming but mac just feels different, like it was made by people who actually cared about the UX even though it might not be as capable as Windows or Linux. Sadly it's coming to an end with Tahoe and its fucked up liquid glass UI designed by indians. My MacBook Pro with macOS Sierra has a special place in my heart.

>>106567735
I really thought they couldn't fuck the UI up anymore than they did with Big Sir, but Tahoe makes Big Sur look like a masterpiece.

>>106567625
does anybody actually use that feature
when i had a mac it didnt even cross my mind that i would want to have my phone connected to it
if i want to use my phone i pick up my phone which is next to me at all times

>>106567770
I don't like texting on my phone, I do it all via my Mac whenever possible and it's really nice to be able to get pictures and stuff people send me right on my Mac without doing anything extra.
Apple's ecosystem is their biggest strong suit.

Homosexualls and women.
There's not much more to it.
Regrettably, women make up about 50% of the population.

>>106565175 (OP)
>MacOS has prettier graphic design than modern Windows but aside from that I seriously do not see the point.
>What's the psychology of the Mac user?

Their psychology is seeing only the UI of a mac and not understanding any of the points you listed in your post

>>106567735
>Sadly it's coming to an end with Tahoe and its fucked up liquid glass UI designed by indians
It's not that bad on iOS, but Tahoe is garbage. Why did they make everything even rounder? Why does all the stuff that should be in the background float over the windows?
Why is every control transparent and barely legible?
Absolute trash. I almost regret buying an M4 Macbook Pro because of it, but I'll stick it out with Sequoia for a couple more years and maybe Apple will have fired their current designers and hired good ones again.

>>106567744
>>106567880
we didn't know how good we had it when Ive was in charge. Now macOS will go through the same enshittification like Windows. Sequoia might be the last macOS with somewhat consistent UI still even though the quality went down drastically with Big Sur

>>106565250
Its the same as people who won't use Arch because "it always breaks". I've been daily driving it for years and it hasn't ever "broken". Some people are just stupid and need to be babied

>>106567880
Liquid Glass is not garbage on iOS as long as you have a fan and a charger nearby at all times

>>106565301
>They're only expensive if you need more storage and RAM.
Yeah, except the base storage and ram are so low they're unusable. Combined with the fact that you won't be able to upgrade afterwards it means that you need to get a higher tier model and thus pay more. The only reason the base models even exist is so they can advertise the cheap prices. Barely anyone actually gets them because they're straight up unusable.

>>106565315
>energy and thermally efficient
Genuinely why does that matter? Electricity is dirt cheap and your fridge uses multiple times as much as a high tier PC does and it's on 24/7. For thermals, just use AC if your room gets too hot.

>>106565344
>What's not to like?
The UI is completely abhorrent. The visual design looks like shit and the experience of actually using the damn thing is painful. I had to use a mac for work and considered quitting every day because homelessness didn't seem so bad by comparison.

Sometimes you just want the quick and practically guaranteed to a low latency machine for music prod; without having to roll the dice with buying/building a PC, only to find out that the latency isn't quite as good as you'd been hoping for (or, if you're really unlucky, terribly shit).

>>106570142
>practically guaranteed route

>>106570142
That said, I only use a Mac Mini anyway; fuck all the other gay shit.

>>106565175 (OP)
An m4 mac mini ($510 on Apple's Refurbished) is the best bang-for-buck machine you can get at that price range. I bought an m1 Mac Mini a few months after it released for $450. It was the most affordable option for me and it let me get put into the Apple ecosystem. Since then, Apple has come out with some useful stuff. Something I'm able to do is use my iPhone as a Webcam and a microphone. I use this feature a lot in meetings. Outside of that, there's also what Mac gives you for native development in Swift and Objective-C. I've made a few apps and gotten them published to the app store (which imo is far better than google play because users are generally more willing to pay for shit).
There are other reasons people have Macs, as well. A lot of schools offer discounts towards apple products through their store. I've worked at a company that gave each of its employees Macbooks. They're often given as gifts from rich family members.
People like the UI of it and are willing to pay more for it. They're also durable af and retain their value even after extensive usage.
Status plays an element, of course, because that's just the apple branding. Thing about iMacs, though, is nobody really sees it. Some people just find it easy to work with, or might need it for specific software like Final Cut Pro.
Apple's design is also just normie-coded. It's the kind of shit your Mom is able to use, and they last a long time. My Grandma bought an iMac in 2011. She still has it today. She just uses it as a place to put her pictures, the internet doesn't even work because the OS is 10 years out of date.
If your goal is to be a poweruser, you don't have any reason to get a mac. Normies have plenty of reason.

>>106567944
I immediately noticed that apps don't have the same corner radius. Like why is this something app developers can decide on? Even the built in apps are all different. It should be consistent throughout the OS.

>>106570157
Mac Mini is actually a fantastic value. For $499 you cannot build a better PC.

>>106565175 (OP)
free support and replacement if they can't fix it. all at local stores. its a laymans device.

>>106565175 (OP)
>MacOS ricing
MacOS is perfect as is. Ricing is for autistic trannies stuck in endless loop of fixing any imperfection they find and creating more bugs and imperfections later on top.
>all your programs
Literally not true.
>can't be properly emulated due to ARM
So? Same thing happens with troonix steamdecks and proton emulation.
>You don't even have USB-A anymore
EUniggers is to blame, enforcing usb-c shit everywhere.
>Any Windows machine in a Mac's price range will be orders of magnitude more powerful
Macs are good now for everything expect modern gayming slop (no one gives a fuck about it).
>Can't upgrade your hardware with off-the-shelf components
Because Apple connects every single part of your device to your apple ID to prevent stealing and re-sell. (Most of it realized on iPhones right now tho)
>le oled meme
Good luck with burned-in pedoshit on your screen :)
>le 60 hz
No one cares about this either and it doesn't matter with MacOS anyway because OS itself applied specific motion blur to all animations, that's why UI looks godly smooth. (Same goes for iOS).

>>106565175 (OP)
>Said LCD is only 60Hz btw
MacBook Pros have had 120hz screens for years now. And you can connect up any type of screen you want, with the Mac Mini/Studio/Pro, you need to provide your own screen. If high refresh rates are your priority, you can do it.

>>106565175 (OP)
>>You don't even have USB-A anymore
Otg dongles, usb c hubs and docks are thing, but i get your point.

>>106570362
>expect modern gayming slop
Even then, developers are starting to put their games on Mac and they run quite well. You can even do raytracing on M3 and M4.

>>106570362
>Same thing happens with troonix steamdecks and proton emulation.
Proton has an x86 device running Windows binaries which are also x86. There is no emulation involved; only rerouting API calls. Running x86 apps on ARM however necessarily requires emulation.

>>106567502
>Why would I need USB-A
To plug in a flash drive?
>Why would I need that (user-replaceable hardware)
So that you have sovereignty over your hardware instead of being beholden to Apples warranty

>>106566167
This logic is retarded because you can build a Windows PC that costs more than any Mac. One's ability to spend is not an issue; it's that if you build a $20,000 Windows PC, you get $20,000 worth of grunt, whereas a $7,000 Mac is palpably not worth $7,000.

>>106565175 (OP)
to make music, websites, apps for iphones, art, enjoy web and life.

>>106570689
>to make music
Every DAW is on Windows
>websites
You can write HTML and JavaScript on anything with a keyboard
>apps for iphones
Fair
>art
Every art program is on Windows

>>106565175 (OP)
>>All your programs are on Windows and/or Linux anyway
Like Final Cut Pro or Realmac's Elements?

>>106565298
Kek!
Face it, anons: Arch on a T420 is chick repellent.

>>106571224
>no ofx
How the fuck do people even use Final Cut Pro kek

>>106567880
They'll ship it & dial it back when everyone complains.

>>106567965
go use Arch on ARM & get back to us

>>106565228
Ancient brimstone

>>106569338
skill issue

>money
lol, my ebay junk rig justwerks
>arm,display,efficiency,ecosystem
why are apple fags like this?

>>106571370
>ecosystem
Legit whenever I hear the word "ecosystem" I just tune out. It's corporate buzzword faggotry that has no practical benefit to anyone.

>>106565175 (OP)
I like unix but I'm too lazy to install linux on a shitbox

>>106565175 (OP)
People just need their computers to work and not to be built like shit. Macshit is unironically the best option if you don't want a used latitude, zbook, or chinkpad.

>>106570311
Aye, it's crazy now, for the same price as my 16GB M1 5 years ago, I can now get an M4 that absolutely smashes it to pieces. Still going to try to hold out as long as possible though, before I upgrade, because fuck Apple.

>>106565511
>Windows prebuilt with 128GB of RAM
he said 128GB of VRAM
>i9
250W and only 2 memory channels still slower than M4 Max,
>better GPU
consumer GPUs have tiny amount of VRAM

>Are you kidding me? Is this your cope—that IPS screens are premium?
literally look at any $2000+ OLED laptop they all have weird blurry fonts

>>106565569
>Macs have literally 0GB of VRAM.
read about unified memory. 90% of memory is VRAM

>>106567944
>icons in menus
the most retard thing ever. It was literally prohibited in the Human Interface Guidelines but of course they deleted it

It's for the old, disabled and retarded and there's a lot of these dead ends out there and their numbers are growing

>>106572560
good morning saar

>>106572438
>unified memory
Using milquetoast main memory because the GPU doesn't even have any VRAM is, in fact, not VRAM. Not to mention that you can point any discrete GPU to use your main RAM anyway rofl
>>106572423
>he said 128GB of VRAM
And Macs have 0GB of VRAM.
>still slower than M4 Max
Proof?
>consumer GPUs have a tiny amount of VRAM
And Macs have literally none

>>106565175 (OP)
>All your programs are on Windows and/or Linux anyway
Two overlapping proprietary apps id use don’t have mac support but everything else (foss, freeware and paid stuff) has a native app.
you've listed a lot of downsides but they hardly matter when you have multiple machines
>>106567784
>Apple's ecosystem is their biggest strong suit.
when stuff outside that ecosystem doesn't work properly, such as a wireless mouse kek, there might be a paid or foss utility to offset that.
>>106567770
So far, I’ve found it handy while chatting on the “phone” as the laptop speakers sound a lot better than the phone speakers. compared to my experience in windows/linux, that sort of stuff just works and it's crazy to see it in action. there was no fumbling around installing specific drivers or tweaking settings while consulting a manual. such a mundane quality id guess to normalfags but im like shitting my pants manifesting butterflies in my stomach and it left me wondering, why isn't everything else like this??? what the fuck!

>>106572784
Unified Memory is VRAM

>>106572676
Microsoft doesn't manufacture hardware you evolutionary dead end, I can use whatever OS I want

>>106572814
Retarded garbage

>>106572820
according to you steam deck has no vram

>>106570362
>that's why UI looks godly smooth.
maybe to some retard who doesnt know better

it drops frames in that window overview thing zoom animation and you cant disable it

like it's not windows 11 choppy but bad

when it comes to launching applications and shell commands everything is quite delayed due to system integrity protection or whatever

what takes 15-30ms on loonix takes 200-300ms on mac

>>106572814
>Unified Memory is VRAM
No, it isn't. Unified Memory is Apple's marketing term to make you pretend you are getting fast graphics memory when you aren't. "Unified memory" has always been considered a major performance bottleneck, except on devices where the main memory also happened to be GDDRx (eg the PS4).

>>106572822
Fuck off downy

>>106572822
That would be correct? This ain't the gotcha moment you thought it would be lol

>>106570410
Yeah. Until crapple breaks all their APIs again in 5 years, which will alienate game devs for another decade, and when they finally start porting to mac again, crapple will break all their APIs again. Mac is not a stable enough platform for gaming.

>>106572834
yes it's VRAM and it makes M4 Max faster than the rtx 5070

>>106572853
ROFLMAO

>>106572834
>bottleneck
it's slow ram and slow pcie on your x86_64 machine actually

>>106565175 (OP)
>if you don't like something about the UI then that's too bad because MacOS ricing is impossible
But I like the UI and can't stand jeetdows 11's dogshit UI and laggy system.
>All your programs are on Windows and/or Linux anyway
All my programs are either on jeetdows, which sucks, or macOS, but linux is missing most of my work software. Linux is a server & non user facing device OS (nobody would use it as a daily driver if they need to do stuff with their computer) and jeetdows has become genuinely awful lately.
>Meanwhile there's so many apps that just aren't on Mac and can't be properly emulated due to ARM
Hardly ever run into a significant program that doesn't have a macOS version. Some people say there's an architecture/engineering program that has no macOS version, but I don't do that stuff so it's irrelevant to me.
>You don't even have USB-A anymore. Each year Apple just removes more and more ports from their products
Cool.
>Middling hardware that is outmatched by Windows prebuilts costing less than half as much
My M4 max is way faster than anything else you could get in a laptop other than a top of the line Thinkpad which will cost the same or more.
>Any Windows machine in a Mac's price range will be orders of magnitude more powerful
See above.
>Can't upgrade your hardware with off-the-shelf components
I never upgrade my computers anyways I just build a new one when the old one is getting outdated.
>You can't even swap components between Macs because they're all soldered on
You're a stupid nigger who doesn't know how to solder and shouldn't be on the technology board, but anyways, see above.
>You're paying thousands of dollars just to not even get an OLED display
The screen is gorgeous though.
>You get an LCD
See above.
>Said LCD is only 60Hz btw
So is my gaming desktop so I'm confused what you mean by this.

>>106572870
Jeet ghetto sweatshop worker detected

>>106572870
>You're a stupid nigger who doesn't know how to solder
Hahaha. Soldering is simple in any other situation, but this is BGA soldering we're talking about. There's a reason nobody to date has resoldered M4 Mac RAM.

>>106565175 (OP)
>What's the psychology of the Mac user?
Sunk cost fallacy

>>106565175 (OP)
>>You can't even swap components between Macs because they're all soldered on
Component upgrades are worthless. Buy what you need when you buy your computer. By the time you need to upgrade, even on a PC you'll end up having to get a new motherboard and a different type of RAM just because you wanted a faster CPU.

>>106565228
IMAGINE BEING AT COMPUTERS

>>106573084
this. in the 90s cpus had upgradable L2 cache and FPU. it's time for ram slots to go if you we want faster CPUs in the future

>>106565175 (OP)
>MacOS ricing is impossible
yeah macs are for people without autism, they just want to get work done and not get fucked by windows bloat or the linux command line. if you are the kind of person who needs to mess with the fucking user interface then jesus buddy go get linux and start losing hours of your life till youre happy with how your menus look kek

it's expensive so if you're poor you get filtered typed on my macbook pro

thinkpads may be your cuppa tea

you can save up more if you buy used kek

>>106573192
>y-you're poor!
To date I have not seen a single Macfag address the obvious reality that one can buy a Windows PC that costs more than any Mac.

>>106570685
Your logic is retarded. Some of us don't want Windows. Desktop Linux is a joke.

The only alternative is the Mac.

>>106573192
/g/ can't afford new ThinkPads. Kek.

>>106573192
I buy Thinkpads and Macbook Pros for my company, about a dozen of each each year. The Macbook Pros are around $1600 a piece and the Thinkpads are around $1700 a piece. The Macs have double the disk space too, but otherwise the specs are basically comparable.
Macs being expensive is a meme now. They're no more expensive than competing Windows computers.

>>106570685
>whereas a $7,000 Mac is palpably not worth $7,000.
In music production, it is. Not a single Windows PC, not even for $20k, can beat the latency of a $500 M4 Mac Mini.

>>106573792
>In music production, it is
Every DAW is on Windows
>latency
What the fuck are you talking about. What latency? I/O is a problem that was solved decades ago.

>>106565175 (OP)
I am so sick of dealing with Linux and I don't want to go back to Windows. Is an M1 Mac Mini for $130 a good deal or is it too old? I don't use my PC for much and don't need graphics.

>>106573951
M1 chip is 5 years old now, but still decent. For $130 that's a steal. It'll likely get 2-3 more major OS updates after 26 and then the last release it gets will get an additional 2 years of security updates. So plan for it to be obsolete in like 5 years, but that's a good price for an Internet browsing/office machine.

>reverse psychology advertising thread
>retards fall for it and keep the thread bumped so a mac image is on front page for hours

>>106573981
This. I WILL NOT FALL FOR IT.
My Thinkpad X200 is STILL the greatest PC of all time. I will NEVER switch to Mac.

>>106573972
>plan for it to be obsolete in like 5 years
That's pathetic. My Pentium 4 from 2002 could run Windows 10 and still get updates until 2032. Do macs really get such a short lifespan? 5 years and dead?

>>106573996
Apple typically gives 7-8 years of updates and then you get a couple extra years of security updates for the last supported OS. Browsers, especially Firefox, continue to support the OSs longer.
A decade isn't a bad lifespan for any PC, but buying years old macs thinking you can use them for another decade is a bad idea.

>>106574009
Intel Macs have Open Core Legacy Patcher. Wonder if somebody will crack the Apple Silicon bootloader in a similar way to extend support.
t. using a 2014 Mac Mini with the latest OS

>>106574035
Not likely. They're locked down just like an iPhone. The OCLP team cannot even figure out how to get it to work on Macs with T2 security chips and even T1 Macs have broken features on the unsupported OSs. Ironically the most recent Intel Macs will be obsoleted faster than ones from the early-mid 2010s because of this.

>>106573996
>Pentium 4
lmao this shit is unusable

>>106574058
>The OCLP team cannot even figure out how to get it to work on Macs with T2 security chips and even T1 Macs have broken features on the unsupported OSs
but it works just fine on all intel macs what are you talking about

>>106569318
I think he meant portability.

>>106574035
>Wonder if somebody will crack the Apple Silicon bootloader in a similar way to extend support.
probably never they still hasn't figured out how to boot newer macos versions on A12Z DTK

>>106574245
T2 Macs cannot run OCLP. They can't even get the installer to load. This wasn't a problem until Tahoe suddenly dropped a ton of T2 Macs.
The OCLP team has no estimate on when they'll be supported, if ever.

>>106574239
And yet, it works and has full support from MS.
Apple could never.

>>106572843
This. Apple cannot be trusted which is why Valve gave up after they dropped 32-bit support, killing over a decade of Mac games in a single day. Unfortunately it means no more Mac games on Steam, so you have to rebuy games you already have Windows versions of when they come to the Mac App Store.
Catalina dropping 32-bit support was already the 3rd time Apple killed Mac gaming (PowerPC in 2009 and Classic Mac OS in 2006)
They're doing it again in another 2 years when they kill off 64-bit Intel apps on Apple silicon.

>>106574505
>no more Mac games on Steam
The reason new Mac games go to the App Store is because they're ports funded by Apple and also work on iPhones and iPads.
There's some Apple Silicon games on Steam. In my library I've got Disco Elysium and the entire Myst series which are Apple Silicon native. I'm sure there's others too. It does suck because I'd like to see how more demanding games run on my M4 Mac like Death Stranding or CP2077, but I don't really want to buy them again.
Apple also said they'd be keeping partial support for Rosetta 2 for games after 2028, so 64-bit Intel games should still run.

>>106574058
The T2 Macs are ARM-based Macs, with an Intel co-processor.

>>106565175 (OP)
Before M1 they were branded as cool and "professional". a kind of hot trash. Today the apples selling point is the powerfull processor in slim computer. It is ridiculous how strong M1 and M2 are. Apple definetely stepped up their game.

>>106575313
About time. Intel's mobile chips have been garbage for even longer than their desktop chips.
Meanwhile Apple revolutionized mobile CPUs with the A7 in the iPhone 5S, the first 64-bit smartphone CPU that ran circles around everything else in power and efficiency.
Of all the things Tim Cook has done as CEO, the development and manufacturing of Apple's own chips is his biggest achievement.

>>106565175 (OP)
they just work

>>106575527
This. I work IT for a living. The last thing I want to do when I get home is fix/fiddle with my own computer.
Mac's are cheap, fast, and just get the job done.

>>106575527
>they just work
So does any OEM Windows machine

>>106576332
No. It doesn't.

>>106574440
if you read their github it seems that only macbook air 2018/2019 is affected as it may be a bug in the T2 firmware. they said OCPL works on 2018 mac mini for example

>>106576573
Anyways.
How's everyone's non-Macintosh systems doing?

>>106576649
BUT I HAVE A 2018 MACBOOK AIR AND WANT LIQUID ASS DAMMIT!

>>106565175 (OP)
I have a MacBook Pro with an M4 max processor and 128gb ram. I can locally run llms in excess of 60gbs for testing at work while on battery with decent performance for hours. There is no equivalent product offered to Apple’s hardware.

>>106574543
> like to see how more demanding games run on my M4 Mac like Death Stranding or CP2077, but I don't really want to buy them again.
The Mac port of CP2077 is available on steam.

Because Windows 11 broke me. Had a Surface Go tablet that was great for pottering around on, no issues with Win10 on it. The it got updated to 11. Total piece of shit now, and I can't roll back because of new bootloader encryption they added to it.
Looking into the laptop space, and everything is just cheaply made plastic shit with embarassing specs and fucking Windows 11. So I swallowed my pride earlier this week and picked up pic related for £300 from CEX. It's quite lovely. Perfect nick with not a single mark on it, battery health still at 85%.
They even let you opt out of all the Apple shit and just let you use a local account, unlike Jeetsoft.

>>106576850
PC crashed downloading the latest 23H2 update (24H2 can fuck off), had to turn it off at the swtch. Turned it on again, it ran the update and just shut itself down.
Seems okay now.

>>106567880
Rounded corners to match the iPad. A consistent UI.

I bet there will be a parameter or a 3rd-party application to reduce the rounded corners.

If you find liquid glass unreadable, send feedback. They'll dial some of it back if there are enough complaints.

>>106572861
rent free, 24/7

>>106575653
These freetards squawk about the Mac 24/7. They've yet to provide a compelling reason for Desktop Linux over the Mac.

it's a toy for women, homosexuals and other kinds of technologically illiterate subhumans

>>106577437
>They'll dial some of it back if there are enough complaints
They already did with every single beta. Liquid Ass is a UI disaster.
I will stick with Sequoia for a few years and see what happens.

>>106565175 (OP)
I mean, if you're already sucking dicks and taking it in the ass, they're the next logical step.

Apple?
Apple's shit.
Overpriced trash, for trendy hipsters.

>>106577472
>They've yet to provide a compelling reason for Desktop Linux over the Mac

>>106578097
uninstall ME, PSP and other proprietary backdoors first

>>106565175 (OP)
you use them in business environments. apple iMacs are like lenovo thinkstations. they arent really meant for home users. sure, there are people that will buy a lenovo or dell or fujitsu workstation PC because they dont know how to or want to build a PC themselves. but the vast majority of iMacs are for businesses that either dont want to deal with windows and dont use software that is windows exclusive, or they use software that is actually mac exclusive.
i work in a company that sells/supports an all purpose software for most medicine applications. and its mac exclusive, so our customers all use iMacs. or mac minis

>>106578097
I can use the GNU applications on macOS. Why put up with the misery of Desktop Linux?

>>106578194
Freedom.

>>106577568
And Linux has those with striped over-the-knee socks. Your point is?

>>106578199
I have freedom with the Mac, today. Nobody at Apple is stopping me from using GNU applications. Nobody at Apple is stopping me from buying an x86 box.

>>106578199
If I have to constantly twiddle Desktop Linux to make it work, that isn't freedom. That makes me a slave to Desktop Linux.

>>106569291
>Yeah, except the base storage and ram are so low they're unusable.
Eh, regular people don't do much. And external drives are a thing.
>Combined with the fact that you won't be able to upgrade afterwards it means that you need to get a higher tier model and thus pay more.
Also niche. Most regular people never upgrade their machines.
>The only reason the base models even exist is so they can advertise the cheap prices.
You're massively over-estimating what the regular, average person actually does on a machine. Said another way: there's a reason that shitty laptops with 4gb ram, a 2 core pentium processor, 720p screen, with 256gb of SSD storage - a glorified chromebook but running windows - are still sold. Average people don't need much. And there are much shittier specs sold on low end windows machines. But on the mac side you will *constantly* see people use theirs for 6+ years, or even longer. I still know people that rock 2012 MacBook Pros. That's basically never a thing with windows laptops.
>>106572834
>Hurr Durr, Unified Memory isn't VRAM
Meanwhile, I'm running a 70B parameter LLM on an M2 Max MacBook Pro. But you're right, it's *totally* useless as VRAM /s,
>>106570676
>To Plug in a flash drive
If you haven't upgraded to a dual USB A / USB C slim Micro SD adapter as your flash drive, you've lost the plot. You're forgetting that a lot of high end windows machines only have Thunderbolt / USB C as well....
>So that you have sovereignty over your hardware instead of being beholden to Apples warranty
Tell that to high end windows machines that do the exact same thing...

>>106572853
>>106578460
street shit harder currynigger

>>106565175 (OP)
Macbooks are really good products, honestly

>>106565175 (OP)
I've had a Mac user tell me the "screen was so sharp and high resolution. It's beautiful to look at" "Windows PC's have a lot of catching up to do".

Tech illiterate people that get sold a lie.

>windows wake from sleep
10-20 seconds
>mac wake from sleep
instant
shrimple as

>>106565175 (OP)
>What is the point of macs
Simple, fast, and good looking.
They last a really long time if you take care of them. I have friends with MacBook Pros over 10 years old.
Efficient use of system resources. I've played around with hackintoshing and every system I'd done it to was much faster running MacOS than it was running windows.
Straightforward repair and replacement. Just take it to an Apple Store. Even if you don't have insurance, they can help you in some way.

The regular person doesn't need much, and Apple makes it very easy. We're at a point where it doesn't really matter what OS you're running. And when it does, you can get a higher end Mac and get near native windows performance when emulating. The unified memory and raw power of Apple Silicon makes it just shred compute while sipping battery. Windows machines can't even touch the battery longevity of Macs. And yes, they're a luxury item. But the luxury is justified with speed, lasting a really long time if you take care, and better components, screens, etc. Get AppleCare to be safe, though.

>>106578460
>If you haven't upgraded to a dual USB A / USB C slim Micro SD adapter as your flash drive, you've lost the plot. You're forgetting that a lot of high end windows machines only have Thunderbolt / USB C as well....
>>So that you have sovereignty over your hardware instead of being beholden to Apples warranty
>Tell that to high end windows machines that do the exact same thing...

The ThinkPad X9 comes to mind.

>>106578627
You can blame the PC manufacturers for that. Go visit Lenovo for a ThinkPad. Most pre-configured ThinkPads come with 1080 screens.

>>106578722
>Windows machines can't even touch the battery longevity of Macs.

What the anons forget is curry operating Intel couldn't produce ARM-like x86 chips. This left Apple no choice but to roll their own.

>>106578834
What about AMD?

>>106578266
Good thing you don't have to constantly twiddle with Fedora, OpenSUSE, Bazzite, Aurora, Ultramarine, Debian, Arch with archinstall, EndeavourOS, CachyOS, or anything, really. 2004 jokes need not apply.

>>106576573
>Buy new Windows PC
>turn it on
>comes with drivers
>I can browse the web and install applications
Which part of this doesn't work?

there is no equivalent to macs

macs have:
>soldered SSD/RAM/WLAN
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>when pajeetOS runs out of RAM it swapfile rapes the SSD to death within 3 years
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>when the SSD dies it bricks your entire currybook because the EFI is stored on the soldered SSD to save $0.05
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>components serial numbered and tied to the motherboard to prevent repair and replacement (including battery)
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>riveted keyboard that requires total destruction of the chassis to replace
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>flexgate cables that are so brittle they crack from opening your screen past 90 degrees more than 2 dozen times
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>screens so fucking shit they have over 90ms response times (essentially 10Hz)
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>screen made from pajeet trash glass that cracks from temperature change in seasons or tape over the iBotnet webcam
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>so fire and explosion prone the FAA have banned them from all flights
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>uses phone CPU that's so shit it gets destroyed by decade old i3s from 2017 and can only "compete" by cheating at benchmarks in extreme edge cases with hardware accelerators
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>curryniggers at apploo get so full of sniffing their own currynigger silicon shit they ship currybooks with no fans and they run so hot they melt the keyboard keys
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs

>keyboards with 63.5% failure rate
unheard of on PCs, and yet you curryniggers defend it with "jus werx fer me!"
just because you're in the 36.5% survivor group doesn't make your currynigger trash any good
this list goes on forever
there's no PC laptop as total fucking currynigger shit as crapple's streetshitter books
they are the biggest heaps of steaming currynigger shit in the history of computing second only to curryPhones

>>106580563
The switch to Apple Silicon was always going to happen. AMD didn't come around to being legitimately powerful and dependable in time. And even if they did, again, the end goal was always Apple Silicon. Apple has been designing their own mobile CPUs for over a decade and has been destroying Qualcomm and Samsung the entire time.

>>106580743
Yeah all of this is ficticious hogslop or shit that doesn't even on current laptops.

This idiot literally believes soldered SSD ram or WLAN doesn't exist on 99% of pc's.

>>106581258
I can replace the RAM and SSD or anything short of a Surface lol

>>106581314
Imagine thinking only one windows OEM does this on some of their laptops. Ignorance clearly is bliss.

>>106580743
Update your pasta jeet

>>106578097
>>106578199
What freedom? And don't tell me by freedom you mean "fapping to CP without fear of three letter agencies injecting themselves inside your computer".
Its like you want misery to surround you.

>>106569291
the base ram is 16GB and storage is replaceable now.

>>106581314
you can on a mac too, jeet

>>106581684
Show me evidence of somebody replacing the BGA-soldered RAM/SSD on an M4 Mac.

>>106581968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDBX6FTYLoQ

>>106582027
>oh yeah you can replace the SSD! you just need to ball solder (fucking ball soldering) multiple chips meaning you can't even just use a simple soldering iron that everyone has in their garage, oh and you also have to buy new NAND controllers (multiple) and solder them on too to bypass Apple's lockout systems, and even then the next MacOS update will invalidate these third-party chips meaning you have to buy new NAND controllers again
Incredible cope. And you didn't even touch on RAM like I asked.

>>106573989
i just know you smell

>>106565175 (OP)
Window is a cellphone OS now. MacOS do everything i need, i don t play games, i just code and browse internet, any computer can do it. Mac look good, your gaming super giga PC with totally sick alyum skull on it look like shit. PC are for poor people with no taste, I would be ashame to such a thing in my house.

>>106582545
This MacOS user can't spell for their own life.

>>106582545
>PC are for poor people with no taste
How aren't Macs personal computers?

>>106582545
>/g/edditor does ESL falseflag
*yawn*

>>106580743
>macs have:
>>soldered SSD/RAM/WLAN

How many ThinkPads have soldered RAM these days?

>>106580743
>>keyboards with 63.5% failure rate
>unheard of on PCs, and yet you curryniggers defend it with "jus werx fer me!"
>just because you're in the 36.5% survivor group doesn't make your currynigger trash any good

the keyboard was fixed in 2019

There is no point. The RAM is soldered. No computer with soldered RAM is a “true” computer. It’s guaranteed e-waste within two years.

>>106581674
>they took away 5 things and gave 1 back
>good enough for a cuck like me

macs are for people who don't want a computer

think about it.

>>106569318
For laptops, thermal and power efficiency are king for batter life.

I'll take a MacBook over any Intel or gAyMD sloptop any day of the week for that.

>>106572834
You literally could not be more wrong

>>106581674
On MacBooks, the storage isn't replaceable.

>>106583406
Every Lunar Lake laptop isn't a true computer?

>>106584088
>You literally could not be more wrong
How is using something that isn't even GDDRx NOT a bottleneck?

>>106584568
That would be correct. Not the gotcha you thought it'd be lol.

>>106565175 (OP)
>All your programs are on Windows and/or Linux anyway
all my programs are available on mac
>there's so many apps that just aren't on Mac and can't be properly emulated due to ARM
werks on my machine
>You don't even have USB-A anymore. Each year Apple just removes more and more ports from their products
werks with my peripherals
>Any Windows machine in a Mac's price range will be orders of magnitude more powerful
price isn't a big factor, just don't buy the iMac or Mac Pro and the difference is largely inconsequential
>Can't upgrade your hardware with off-the-shelf components
don't need to, buy new every 5 years or so, works out the same price as you buying 1 new part a year
>You're paying thousands of dollars just to not even get an OLED display
>Said LCD is only 60Hz btw
as noted above, just don't buy the iMac; macbook pros have 120Hz screens (16:10 btw) that blow pretty much all other craptop screens out of the water except Microsoft and Framework's top ends which are priced equivalently
>What's the psychology of the Mac user?
pay more to have a functional computer that gets out of your way
you'll get it when you grow up a bit

>>106584579
You're wrong about what unified memory actually is/does. I think the latest gddr is the fastest when it comes to pure bandwidth. But the whole point of unified memory is to keep the traces as limited as possible by being right next to the CPU/GPU, which seriously reduces latency. and makes the memory faster than traditional ram. Granted considering they make vram very similar to "unified" memory (soldered on, placed nearby graphics chip), unified memory isn't some completely different meme tech that somehow "bottlenecks", if anything, traditional dimm ram is the biggest bottlenecked memory module in the market.

>>106584704
>pay more to have a functional computer that gets out of your way
how do i disable all system animations?

>>106584719
accessibility settings

>>106584715
>which seriously reduces latency
The type of RAM matters a lot more lol. If it ain't GDDR6, it ain't GDDR6.

>>106584589
Kek

>>106584704
>don't need to, buy new every 5 years or so, works out the same price as you buying 1 new part a year
I don't need to buy 1 new part every year, because I can just buy a computer that will last more than 5 years (which you can't lol)

>>106565175 (OP)
I had a few Macs during the OS X era. The primary advantages for me at the time included OS X having far superior audio interfacing and routing compared to Windows. There was absolutely no way for me to replicate my DAW and hardware setup on Windows. Some of the OS X exclusive software was also great to work with, and all the iterations of Aqua looked better to me until Microsoft finally got a clue and implemented Aero.
These days though, I see no reason to go to MacOS. Most software is cross-platform now, and both Windows and Linux audio interfacing have gotten much better. Given how fucked up hardware pricing is now, I'd rather be on an x86 platform where I can easily change out hardware instead of having to get a whole new computer every 5 years. And Mac UI has been going downhill since Mavericks, culminating in this "Liquid Glass" shit made by people who obviously didn't understand the purpose behind those aesthetics from the late 2000s.
All that said, I would be open to trying MacOS again if somehow they went back to x86 and brought back a Mac Pro with real interchangeable hardware support.

>>106570676
>To plug in a flash drive?
Why would I need that?
>So that you have sovereignty over your hardware
Why would I need that?

>>106565228
Dobson draws so much better than every other autistic comic artist out there and most of the modern woke posse too. If only he wasn't such a lolcow online and also chose less stupid topics to depict he could have been respectable.

>>106584579
>GDDRx
dogshit latency that makes it useless outside games and ai slop

I will only use Apple if I don't have to pay for it. I like the tablets, they are neat portable screens.

>>106578804
the fuck you're talking about? i've bought x9 15" and currently using it, and it has one usb-a port and two usb-c

>>106578804
the fuck you're talking about? i've bought x9 15" and currently using it, and it has one usb-a port and two usb-c, and it even has 3.5mm jack

>>106565175 (OP)
They appeal to artists and college kids who don't really care about the technology and just use it to do whatever task they need it to do, like editing photos or writing an essay. Plus, it's basically a status symbol.

>>106586022
Kek

>>106584088
>battery life
And genuinely why does that matter past a few hours? Where are you trying to use your laptop that you don't have an outlet within 2 meters for longer than an hour or 2? At home, the office, school, a coffee shop, anywhere you can think of will have electricity.

>>106580584
more proof Desktop Linux is a joke

>>106582652
Personal implies you own it. You're just renting from apple.

>>106588328
>You're just renting from apple
I gave Apple $500 for a Mac Mini 10 years ago and haven't given them a penny since.
When are they going to send the repo men out to collect it back?

>>106584704
On PC, if one of my parts, say the RAM, shits the bed, I can drive to the store, pick up new RAM, drive home, swap it in and be up and running again in 30 minutes. On mac I either send it to crapple and pay half the price of a new laptop for repair and wait 2 weeks or just buy a new one.

I have to use it at work and I struggle with it every day, especially for the UI and windows behavior... Why do I need do press Option to maximize while leaving the taskbar visible? Why does space remain between windows when I put two of them side by side dragging to the side of the screen? Why can't I see all instances of an app hovering on its icon on the take bar? Why can each application decide how to resize itself when I maximize it? Why doesn't alt tab cycle between instances of the same app? And why the fuck did I have to purchase an external dock to connect external screen, mouse and keyboard simultaneously? I honestly did not expect this terrible UX. Sorry for the rant but I am surrounded by colleagues who keep praising this thing and I really don't understand

>>106588349
>When are they going to send the repo men out to collect it back?
When are you going to get your next security update?

>>106588373
On my Mac, if one of my parts, say the RAM, shits the bed, I can drive to the store, pick up new RAM, drive home, swap it in and be up and running again in 30 minutes.

>>106588386
Tomorrow.

We are currently in an era where macs are just superior to winpcs
better HARDWARE
better OS
they aren't even that expensive
outside of wanting a powerful NVIDIA GPU, which is basically a computer in and of itself and certainly not required for most usecases, the Mac is the white choice
t. never owned an apple product in my life

>>106588396
That Mac Pro is SIXTEEN years old. Apple hasn't made a computer that's upgradable like that since 2012.

>>106565209
idk having imessage on my computer is pretty sweet

I make iOS apps for a living a mac is the only option

>>106588447
>muh blue bubbles
Only underage b&s care about that shit. You can do the same thing with an Android phone and RCS on ANY desktop OS you choose.

>>106588447
You can make that work on Linux, you just need any Mac to work as a proxy. It's really simple to set up.

>>106565175 (OP)
These days they have a hold on the Notebook/Mini market. That's because their M-series CPUs outperform everything by a long shot. I don't know why, it seems like Intel/AMD want to have "AI-capable chips", whatever that means, for their portable CPUs.
If Apple didn't price their shit as insanely as they do I'd consider buying a mac.

>>106588522
>If Apple didn't price their shit as insanely as they do
A Macbook Air can be had for under $900.
A Mac Mini for under $500.
That's hardly insane considering how well the perform compared to the competition.

>muh upgrade
>muh adding ram
it's not 1985. platforms are inexpensive and they change frequently. you are not going to add RAM in 5 years and "extend the life" of your machine.
computers are inexpensive and disposable

>>106588559
>you are not going to add RAM in 5 years and "extend the life" of your machine
I added RAM to extend the life of a 15yo laptop btw

>>106588572
Yeah, I did the same with my 2012 Macbook Pro. Gave it 16GB of RAM and an SSD. It improved it tremendously, except for the really shitty dual core CPU (it was crap even when it was new) and the god awful battery life (under 4 hours even with a brand new battery) and the fact the fan was like a jet engine.
I finally gave it up this year for a Macbook Air with 16GB of RAM and an SSD. This thing is in a whole different class of performance despite the similar specs and the battery lasts over 20 hours and it doesn't even need a fan.
Technology improves. Incremental improvements only help so much for so long.

>>106588533
>A Mac Mini for under $500.
The cheapest mac mini on the market right not costs 600$ and has a whopping 16gb ram + 256gb ssd. This would be considered outdated a decade ago.
Within this price range you can find many other minis with high end AMD/Intel CPUs and packing 32gb + 1tb.

>>106588589
>Incremental improvements only help so much for so long.
A 15yo laptop has hardware video decoding and a working keyboard. Why should I need anything more for uni?

>>106588595
I just bought a base one last November for $500. Just use the $100 student discount. They don't ask and it's available to everybody. It's far faster than my gaming PC (i7-13700K and 32GB) when it comes to anything except graphics. 256GB is more than enough space.

>>106588604
>They don't ask and it's available to everybody
Wrong. I did this in the UK and they wanted proof I was a student.

>>106588604
I'm not a student tho, and I won't lie because I'm not brown.

>>106588604
You committed fraud.

>>106565175 (OP)
There's more than one type of Mac. Not all of them are AIO models retard. Also anyone buying an AIO doesn't give a single fuck about 60hz+. MUH 120HZ BRO does jack shit outside of low latency gaming.

ITT negligible differences are discussed while ignoring that Apple charges a $400 premium for 16GB of 'unified memory'

>>106588677
The upgrade prices are insane. You should never buy anything but base models.

>>106588657
120Hz makes scrolling smoother and lessens LCD ghosting (Macs still have LCDs, ouch!)

>>106588677
no one is forcing you to buy it. Build your shitty b550 pc with 128gb ram if you need it (you don't)

>>106588677
>$400 for an extra 16GB of DDR5 memory
KEKEKEKEKEKEK

>>106588682
MacBook Pros have 120hz displays.
The iMac and MacBook Air are "lifestyle" computers. They don't need 120hz because the people who buy them won't notice.
For the other desktop Macs, you can buy whatever monitor you want. Apple sells 5K and 6K panels, of which there are no high refresh rate models because that'd require too much bandwidth, but if you'd like a high refresh rate screen, just hook one up.

>>106588702
The whole device, with base 16gb/256gb, costs 600$.
Adding 16gb more ram and 256gb ssd costs 600$ as well. It's literally cheaper to buy two of these than to double the base ram/ssd.

>>106588714
>of which there are no high refresh rate models because that'd require too much bandwidth
????
4K 240Hz monitors exist, which require more bandwidth than a hypothetical 5K 120Hz monitor. The issue is that Apple are cheapskates STILL selling LCDs. Moreover, while higher refresh rates lessen LCD ghosting, OLEDs solve the problem altogether.

>>106588743
Those 4K 240hz monitors do not support 10-bit color.

>>106588688
okay
>browses the internet on a personal computer (PC) with 128GB of random access memory (RAM) installed.
>it just works

JuSt BuY a MaC mInI tHeY'rE sO cHeAp!

>>106588766
how much if you don't get an autistic amount of storage? I'd rather have the 128gb ram and 1tb of storage. i can always just put files on another machine like a 100 dollar optiplex

>>106588786
>I'd rather have the 128gb ram
Anon, I...

>>106588786
>128gb ram
Not an option. 64GB max like it's 2008.

>>106588786
Mac Mini is an entry level machine. You can get a Mac Studio with up to 512GB (and a much better CPU).

>>106588748
I googled "4k 240hz 10bit".
The first result was a 4K 240Hz monitor with 10-bit colour depth.
https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/monitors/27-33-inch/116037-pg27ucdm?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21605227195

>>106588815
I'd buy one of these in heartbeat if it didn't look so faggy.

>>106565175 (OP)
It's for normies who (understandably) don't like windows. Also marketing.
>if you don't like something about the UI then that's too bad because MacOS ricing is impossible
Normies don't care and don't know ricing is even possible.
>All your programs are on Windows and/or Linux anyway
They don't want windows and linux is le hard. Also many things do not work on linux, such as adobe shit. You don't like adobe shit? Well I don't care, and neither do they.
>Meanwhile there's so many apps that just aren't on Mac and can't be properly emulated due to ARM
True. They don't care I guess, lol.
>You don't even have USB-A anymore. Each year Apple just removes more and more ports from their products
They don't care, just pay $ for new doogle.
>Middling hardware that is outmatched by Windows prebuilts costing less than half as much
They don't care. Also mac laptops do have great battery life and decent build quality.
>Any Windows machine in a Mac's price range will be orders of magnitude more powerful
They don't care.
>Can't upgrade your hardware with off-the-shelf components
They don't care.
>You can't even swap components between Macs because they're all soldered on
They don't care.
>You're paying thousands of dollars just to not even get an OLED display
Normies do not care about monitor autism..
>You get an LCD
"
>Said LCD is only 60Hz btw
"

>>106588824
There's plenty others with the same specs that just look like normal monitors

>>106588485
have you ever used a mac/iphone/ipad/airpods combination before?

>>106588848
No, I'm not a homosexual.

>>106588848
>have you ever used peripherals 4x as expensive to do the same thing?
FTFY
Also, everything is in the cloud these days, so...

>>106588856
>>106588868
i havent touched a mac in several years but if youve never used all apple hardware before then you cant really speak on it tbqh

>>106565175 (OP)
It runs Photoshop and at least it's not Windows. That said, haven't touched my Mac in two months.

>>106572853
>>106573792
>>106576573
>>106578266
>>106581684
>>106588748
It is hilarious that iToddlers need to lie in order to justify their brand loyalty, lmao. Stalinist-tier propaganda bullshit that crumbles when met with even a smattering of truth.

>>106565175 (OP)
Your average IBM compatible PC manufacturer drives the price tag so high that a Mac computer doesn't seem like a bad choice.

>>106588953
if you haven't tried eating shit then you cant really speak on it tbqh

>>106589008
zoomers are experts at advising people on shit theyve never done so i shouldnt be surprised but yea actually

>>106588499
>works on linux*
>*mac required

>>106589008
Not sure why you think this is a point of contention. People learn through other's experience and form opinions quite successfully without first hand experience.

I mean it's a matter of alternatives:

>Windows
Dying OS, was never good

>Linux Distro
Worse support

>ChromeOS
Basically only good for using Google's own apps.

As time goes on I just develop on Fedora/RHEL and I just use my Mac for basic productivity and a dedicated streaming box. Outside of work it sort of dawned on me that I don't actually need a computer at all anymore and I mostly use one out of habit and could really just use a fucking iPad.

I got a one for free at work. some things are inferior to my beloved debian stable workstation but it gets the job done. I dont give a shit, if i can run emacs im set. I also have a win 10 desktop with wsl2, where I use all my pirated software and play all my pirated games, except factorio. one thing that surprised me about the macbook was battery life, ad the price, I would never spend that much money on a laptop.

my computers: macbook, x220 (my beloved. the keyboard is superior to the mac), x230 (gave it to my wife), w530, debian desktop, windows desktop.

It just werks I guess. You could also make iPhone apps on it, and it's supposedly good for creatives. I usually use Linux personally but I'll use whatever. At this point it barely matters what OS you're running.

>>106589091
peak zoomer

>>106588533
Got my M4 MacBook Air 13" (base spec, 16GB RAM 256 GB storage) from Costco, tax free in August for $799.

Using it in my bed right now. Great purchase.

>>106565175 (OP)
I genuinely don't understand the point of getting a Linux machine, unless you're already a longtime Linux user and are just used to it.

If you don't like something about the UI, that's too bad because Linux ricing often requires extensive tweaking and can be inconsistent across distros.
All your programs are on Windows and/or Mac anyway.
Meanwhile, many apps just aren't on Linux and can't be properly emulated due to compatibility issues.
You often have to deal with complex driver installations or hardware compatibility problems.
Middling hardware support that is outmatched by Windows or Mac prebuilts costing less.
Any Windows or Mac machine in a Linux machine's price range will typically offer better out-of-the-box performance.
Can't always upgrade your hardware easily due to limited driver support for off-the-shelf components.
You can't rely on consistent hardware integration because Linux support varies widely by manufacturer.
You're spending hours troubleshooting just to not even get a seamless user experience.
You often get fragmented software ecosystems.

>>106589517
>If you don't like something about the UI, that's too bad because Linux ricing often requires extensive tweaking
tweaking requires tweaking? what are you trying to say?
>can be inconsistent across distros.
i'm not thinking about other distros when customising my own system. distro hopping is for new users
>All your programs are on Windows and/or Mac anyway.
all my programs are for linux or can run in linux, too
>You often have to deal with complex driver installations or hardware compatibility problems.
i do? i have no out-of-tree drivers installed and there's currently no hardware i want to use but can't because of linux
>Any Windows or Mac machine in a Linux machine's price range will typically offer better out-of-the-box performance.
also not sure what this means, my computer is a pc, the same hardware other people run windows on, none of it is uniquely made for linux, so how could this be more or less cost-effective than a windows machine, considering it is one?
>Can't always upgrade your hardware easily due to limited driver support for off-the-shelf components.
i don't remember the last time i even had to pick an alternative to something because of a lack of linux support, maybe i'm just really lucky
>You're spending hours troubleshooting just to not even get a seamless user experience.
i haven't changed my core DE/UI components in any significant way since before windows 8 came out, can you say your os's ui hasn't changed since then?

>>106589517
none of the shit you just posted is true lmao

>>106589962
the anon is 100 percent correct

>>106589517
>Linux ricing often requires extensive tweaking
Just download a theme from the Plasma store.
>your programs are on Windows and/or Mac anyway. Meanwhile, many apps just aren't on Linux and can't be properly emulated due to compatibility issues
True.
>You often have to deal with complex driver installations or hardware compatibility problems.
>Middling hardware support that is outmatched by Windows or Mac prebuilts costing less.
>Can't always upgrade your hardware easily due to limited driver support for off-the-shelf components.
>You can't rely on consistent hardware integration because Linux support varies widely by manufacturer.
False, the kernel has drivers for everything.
>Any Windows or Mac machine in a Linux machine's price range will typically offer better out-of-the-box performance.
Modern Windows is too bloated for that to be true. The RAM and CPU usage on Linux is comically smaller than in Windows.
>You're spending hours troubleshooting just to not even get a seamless user experience.
False, modern distributions just work.
>You often get fragmented software ecosystems.
I don't even know what this means. And frankly the use of the word "ecosystem" cannot be sincere.

>>106590774
>False, the kernel has drivers for everything.
Mediatek wifi drivers?

>>106588725
And that's why they don't let you swap parts. It's not for "speed" or whatever excuse they use. It's because of their predatory pricing you could bypass if you could add any random 3rd party parts to it.

>>106592544
>not for speed
only apple makes laptops with 8 channel RAM
upgradable ram = slower, low memory bandwidth, more latency, less battery life.
this is why we don't have upgradable cpu cache anymore because it's slow and inefficient.

>>106588193
>why does battery life matter? just always be near an outlet
Biggest cope I've ever seen holy shit lol

I am in the market to buy a new machine for personal use
That includes listening to music, watching movies, editing and printing photographs, etc.
Since Adobe refuses to release their software on Linux, my choices are between Mac and Windows
Windows 11 is absolute dogshit, while Mac is basically the same as ever from what I understand
Why shouldn't I get a MBP?
Seems like the best option for my use case at about $2500 all things considered

I didn't either, for most of my life. My dad would tell me shit like "It just works!" and "they don't get viruses" and stuff like that and I would shrug it off as tech illiteracy. PCs were "obviously" cheaper for better hardware, more customizable, less of a toy.

Well fast forward to now and Microsoft burned all goodwill with me. The OS is slow, ugly, update freeze and bug ridden nonsense. It bricked a laptop that I bought in 2017 with their forced bloatware (couldn't install it as it was system programs), and then made a recent gaming PC I bought randomly run hot even when sitting idle. There are ads in the start bar, the UI is a frankensteined mess with styles from all earlier eras patched in, and the right click dropdown menu takes a moment to buffer options.

It's maddening stuff, from an OS what I want is: it just works (lol), efficiency, speed, reliability, and predictability. Guess who still has that? I bought a Mac Mini a half year or so ago and I love my decision. And every time I could reconsider it I have my work PC right next to me to remind me why Microsoft/Windows is putrid cancer in 2025. They lost their way. And a lot of the cliches about Mac were correct, it's simply reliable.

>>106565175 (OP)
it is like a cock cage but for work.

>>106565175 (OP)
>>if you don't like something about the UI then that's too bad because MacOS ricing is impossible
The Macintosh/macOS user interface is designed by the most gifted minds in the UI/UX world. There is nothing a layman can do to make it any better and no need to change it in any way.
>>All your programs are on Windows and/or Linux anyway
Untrue. There are plenty of exlusive softwares.
>>Meanwhile there's so many apps that just aren't on Mac and can't be properly emulated due to ARM
Emulation is for hobbyists and unserious people. Any app you used on Linux or Windows has a better equivelant on macOS. ARM is the chip of the future, x86 is for dinosaurs.
>>You don't even have USB-A anymore. Each year Apple just removes more and more ports from their products
If Apple is choosing to remove them, it is because they are unnecessary.
>>Middling hardware that is outmatched by Windows prebuilts costing less than half as much
Any hardware advantage is mitigated by the awful performance of Windows as an OS, and your custom built mess will never be as elegant and graceful as a Mac built by people who know what they are doing.
>>Any Windows machine in a Mac's price range will be orders of magnitude more powerful
Once again, I contest this due to the awfulness of your OS, but if this is an issue, simply spend more on your Mac. A high priced Mac is the supercar of computers, your Windows/Linux abomination is like a kit car built by a 17 year old wannabe racer.
>>Can't upgrade your hardware with off-the-shelf components
Don't need to, don't want to for reasons already outlined.
>>You can't even swap components between Macs because they're all soldered on
What is non-Mac user's obsession with Frankenstein abominations?
>>You're paying thousands of dollars just to not even get an OLED display
If Apple has elected not to use OLED, they probably have a good reason.
>>You get an LCD
And?
>>Said LCD is only 60Hz btw
Not a gamer in my mother's basement so that's plenty enough.

>>106592974
iToddlers unironically believe all of this

>>106592723
>>106592974
Seriously, macos is the mirror of the "linux stack."
People will pay a premium for a smooth overrated appliance and larp as an insurance salesman for it.

>>106593326

If it's that easy someone else should be doing it. None of this is esoteric stuff. I will buy a rig/OS from anyone who matches or beats Mac at building a simple, consistent, reliable and performant system that I can "forget out" rather than wrestle with constantly. It's there for me to forget about, to enable me to focus on the actual application work.

>>106593346
It's not too hard to neuter win 11, or get a linux prebuilt with WINE or emulator.

Apparently, those are the tradeoffs between the three general popular systems.

>>106593346
The OP lists several situations where one would have to fight with their Mac

>>106565228
Imagine being such a fat fuck you look at computers and see food

>>106593346
Macs are overrated and too many of their users are obtuse retards.
I remember when the original iphone came out and asked some guy "but it has EDGE, my shit phone has 3g. Of course it was fast enough to him, because he had to lie to himself.

You will find this constantly with APPLE, just below the surface, a mediocre, overrated product with a tight walled garden.

>>106589498
I'll use you in your bed

>>106588688
I do need 128gb ram for web browsing though

>>106593363
Stop mentioning Windows and Linux as if they're comparable.
Windows is still an OS made for professional desktop work.
Yes, it's worse now with Windows 11, but it's not Linux-tier bad.

Windows and macOS are both serious desktop OSs with their respective strengths and weaknesses. Linux is not. It's a server OS hacked to work on the desktop by hobbyists.

>>106593599
>Linux-tier bad
What's bad about Linux?

>>106593808
everything

>>106572843
>>106574505
I think there's confusion among people on how things should work. The real reference point for macOS is Linux and different Linux distributions and therefore we should ask ourselves: Do games released for Linux in late 1990s and early 2000s still work on modern Linux distributions without any modifications? If not, then we can only say that macOS is as good as Linux in that regard, which means that it's pretty good.

Windows is an anomaly in this regard and should not be used as the yardstick. Game developers should get off their high horse and recompile their games like every other developer does when there are changes to APIs. If they are unable to do this, they let someone else maintain the code, preferably open source it, like ID software and 3D Realms did.

>>106594753
DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!

>>106590396
idk if youre just completely retarded or what but adding a file to the dkms folder and running dracut isnt complex, stock gnome works better than anything microsoft is doing, i havent had to swap out any hardware on any computer ive used to make things work on linux since 2008(atheros vs realtek wifi drivers on a netbook iirc) and my latest build i literally did not consider linux compatibility for a single moment, im not quite sure what a hardware integration is but everything that i use including hardware for my watercooling works perfectly fine on linux, spending hours troubleshooting is a skill issue and has nothing to do with your operating system, every single piece of software on my computer is either through the packaging system or flatpaks published by the developers of said software

>>106595025
Yea it's a good principle and comparing Linux and macOS is of course a bit difficult since Linus is only responsible for the kernel not breaking userspace and the libraries that distros ship with is another story. Apple controls the whole stack so they're to blame if anything breaks, whether the fault lies in the kernel or something else. And Apple did certainly break user space in macOS 14.4 by changing something something in the protected memory handling, causing JVM crashes. Embarrassing for Apple, but it was quickly fixed in 14.4.1.