Thread 106846254

Also is le AI = SoftEng Dead maymay real

>>106846254 (OP)
40 is too old to ever get a place in a company, yes.
you can always go it alone however, you'll have to come up with your own product entirely

>>106846254 (OP)
Whether or not going to college matters or AI is going to take away jobs is completely irrelevant for you. 40 is too old to do anything new.

Any age is too old to post fr*gs

>>106846355
The only reason anyone believes this is because their frame of reference is married people with families. If you’re 40 and single you have the same exact freedom to do whatever you want as a 20 year old.

>>106846254 (OP)
Software eng is a dead career now. AI is almost completely irrelevant.
1. The number of graduates has been outpacing the job growth for a decade at this point.
2. There are a quintillion jeets and other brownskins who are happy to work remotely on software projects for 1/100th your salary.
3. AI.
4. You're 40.

>>106846382
>If you’re 40 and single you have the same exact freedom to do whatever you want as a 20 year old
Completely false. It's not about what YOU can theoretically do. Nobody's going to employ you beyond 40 with no experience. The ones who decide are other people, not you. There are plenty is much younger people with a degree and/or experience to employ. Being 40 without anything is a sign of failure.

>>106846254 (OP)
what a BS
you dont even need to be employed to make money in computer science
40 is too old to fuck with women, not with computers
AI is advanced gibberish generator which anyway needs to be controlled by software engineers, not QAs and HRs.
dont ditch your dreams

>>106846254 (OP)
40 is too old for basically everything. But you should go for it anyway.

>>106846280
>>106846254 (OP)
>40 is too old to ever get a place in a company, yes.
no it's not, I finished CS studies with 40 (have studied design when I was younger) and got instantly a job as a software dev

>>106846440
Plenty of people change their careers in their 40s and are able to find jobs. There are also lots of companies working with legacy codebases in old languages, staffed mostly by middle aged men who don’t want to work with zoomers, so OP would even have an advantage there.

>>106846440
I mean, you could still go for an entry-level job but those are quite draining and you might not have the youthful pep needed for it.

>>106846468
What's entry job for 2yr Diploma? Junior Web Dev?

look around you, is the software you see 'good'? does it run fast? is the code clean? are there glaring bugs across hardware? of course, its all dog shit, op. People have made careers for themselves fixing just ONE extremely niche problem in tech. Yes, thats a more entrepreneurial approach, but if you're a software engineer you don't 'write code'. you solve problems for people. if you're a very product-oriented dev then you solve them for end users (which might be yourself.) or if you're a dev at a company you might only get to write boring glorified spreadsheet style tools.

40 aint too late but im also not going to lie to you. There is fierce competition. For software jobs that require a degree, that approach is colouring between the lines and it pits you against everyone else (which used to be enough.) If you want a software career now you need to do more than that. You have to think of problems to solve and take the imitative to do it. You have to market yourself (do talks at industry events), make guides for new people, go to conferences to network, email founders for jobs, and so on. It's a grind and constant struggle. thats what your life will be like if you want to be a well paid software engineer.

your job security will be shit, you will work long hours (including years of unpaid time spent learning to establish expertise.) And after that, if you do more than what everyone else is doing, you can expect a high paying job. Again, its not easy, and there are far easier ways than tech to earn money (trades.)

>>106846536
You just completely contradicted yourself between your first and second paragraphs. If software is shit everywhere, then why would you need to be that good to beat the competition?

Could be possible. You could already start coding regardless of whether you will go to college in the end.

>>106846580
Unrealistic expectations, dead lines, cost, legacy code, the real world is not perfect, and businesses that try to chase perfection usually don't live long enough to ship good code.

>>106846464
Proof? Post your company, name and position.

>>106846620
why should I doxx myself? you don't have to believe me, it's fine.

>>106846610
So their standards for the products they sell are absolute dogshit but their hiring standards are that high? That doesn’t really make any sense.

>>106846254 (OP)
>Never went to college. Is 40 too old for Software Engineering?

2 decades ago that would have been no but now its a definite yes


>Also is le AI = SoftEng Dead maymay real
Yupp, Cursor with Claude's lates model will mog you

>>106846254 (OP)
Fuck off, were full

>>106846254 (OP)
40 is too old for anything.

>>106846683
Its true though in my experience. They'll ask questions about time complexity and then the actual job is making a ui and wiring up some buttons to rest APIs, or exposing another endpoint that just runs a query against a db and returns the data. There aren't usually hard problems to solve.

>>106846838
This is what bitter people say when they want you to give up so hope

How's this? This viable?

2-yr Diploma in SoftEng, as an entry point (Pre-U).
Perhaps 1yr working entry level job.
Then an undergrad study for a Bachelor's Degree.

CompSci majoring in GameDev, 3-yr.
With credit transfer could go down to 1.5-2yr.

Interested in SoftEng fundamentals in general, CompSci theory is great, GameDev major disciplines cool too, but what I'm really interested in is Graphics and Visuals, so a Graphics Programmer.

Seeing something like the Windwaker demo on Pico-8, or Rujik the Comatose stuff on YT or Rain World's procedural animation are neat,.. and then something like Vercidium rendering optimization on YT looks hella interesting.

>>106846959
>but what I'm really interested in is Graphics and Visuals, so a Graphics Programmer.
Those types of jobs are going to be obsolete soon considering AI can generate graphics and visuals in minutes

>>106846976
Graphics Programming (Math/CompSci) != Graphics Design (Visual Arts)

>>106847003
>Graphics Programming
For what purpose? AI will be generating it all anyway

>>106846254 (OP)
It's pretty damned hard to get into now as a new guy that's for sure. It's not just AI but outsourcing to indians and other such cheap countries.
If you have no experience already I'd suggest you look elsewhere.

>>106846254 (OP)
mom and pop died and no more leeching?

I knew some guy who was 35 and signed up, according to LinkedIn he has a job. Another girl was in her late 20s when she started and works at a bank now.
However you are investing 3 to 4 years of your life so you have to be motivated.

I'm taking the national entrance exam for state college this year. I'm 32. If I get accepted, I'll finish by 37.

But, OP, mind you, even if you get a degree, if your entire value as a 'programmer' is to provide 'code', you'd still be worthless.

https://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~remzi/Naur.pdf

Programming != Coding

Stop thinking AI is taking your jobs. The jobs AI is taking is codemonkey pajeet shit.

You can still design. You can still plan. You can still solve problems. These are the things human excels at.

I only wish to go back to college so maybe I can meet a grill. I realize this is sleazy, but fuck you. None of your business.

Also, I feel invalid without a degree.

I wish to open up my own software contract business in a few months, offering my services to Gulf Arab countries. I'll make compilers, database software, operating systems, informatics software, platform-powering software, and so on.

Stop being a fucking codemoney. AI makes the job of a real programmer easier. if you are not some webshit 'coder', you should welcome AI.

It was obvious that webshit 'coders' will be replaced. No more "Thank you, JavaScript!" for you, Ethan!

The inherence messiness of the so-called 'stacks' these retards relied on caused a surge in request for morons who could copy-paste code from Stack Overflow. Those days are gone.

These days, if you don't know what 'fixed point semantics' are, you're fucked.

Thankfully, you can use AI to LERN.

---

Guys, can you recommend me a git hosting that is not Github, and preferably is not located in the US? Thanks.

>>106846668
Because it's ultra important to show proof to an anonymous person on 4chan. That's why.

>>106846254 (OP)
Well I started when I was 15 and it took me 7 years to be paid by a trillion dollar company (I never went to school for comp sci). If you are persistent, you might be able to make it. A degree makes everything a lot easier.

>>106846440
Lol u have no idea what are u talkin bout

No you should be fine. Take care of your health and get enough sleep. There is not much a decline between being 30 and 60-65 mentally if you take care of your health and you should have learned lots in the meantime.

It's more about who you know, who are your friends, how are you as a person and are you able to actually finish what you have started.
Most people are shitters and then cry about it on twitter. Just because you are 20 something doesn't mean you are automatically good. Truth is, you are most likely a shitter.
This applies to every single job.

>>106846254 (OP)
It's not too old but if you're going without connections the competition is going to be hard. Best case scenario is that this is your 2nd graduation and you have work exp even if its in a different area.
>>106846440
>Nobody's going to employ you beyond 40 with no experience
He can get experience while in college retard. Plenty of oldheads go to law school and have no issues finding jobs.

>>106847483
okay, I am from london in a big company

I'm in my 40s and the biggest barrier to tech employment is that I can't stand being around 20-something midwits. I quit my last tech job and haven't applied to another one since and I trash all emails from recruiters.

>>106847025
KEK

>>106846254 (OP)
If real question: don't do Software Engineering or Computer Science.
I am 44, SE, started as game dev, moved to corporate/business, good salary (not great, just good) and I am trying to figure out a way to have time for starting Mechatronics or Electrical Engineering.
Software field is fucked, sitting in front of the screen and doing the next fucking app or n-th web shop or business shit is depressing. When I actually build something, like a small circuit breaker, hell even building something with Lego, gives more joy, than knowing I just fixed a bug for the biggest company in the food sector.
I fucked up back then, with my current knowledge of the industry, if I would be 20 again I would do Mechanical AND Electrical Engineering parallel.
If I can't find time for BSc next year, I will do trade school in similar area (electrician some sort, maybe high voltage).

>>106847813
Don't do wall current anon. You'll electrocute yourself :(

This electrician came to our home to fix our fucked up wiring (seriously, it's done by a fucking monkey) and he told me there's always a job in electrical automation, specially at large factories and refineries.

Maybe you could go to trade school, and mix your programming knowledge with electrical knowledge, to launch into electrical automation.

Just be prepared for shocks. A lot of shocks.

I'm personally going to learn writing domain-specific compilers. From game engines, to fucking sea navigation. Arabs are hungry for these stuff. For some reason, they hate us Iranians, but they respect the fact that we are more skilled than them.

>>106847813
I actually wanted to do Electronics Engineering. Probably specilizing in Embedded Systems. IC design and VLSI seems too hard to learn and break into. Looking up the electives there's too many specializations but they all looked good. Power Electronics would open up jobs with Dyson etc. Robotics and Machine Vision, Machine Learning and AI.

But there's no entry point from a 2yr Diploma SE. Credit transfer is useless. There's too many EE fundamentals in the first year. Circuits, labs etc. I'd end up doing the whole 4yr for undergrad study anyway.

Isn't EE an even more blasphemous pathway at fucking 40 lol. At least you could go Indie with GameDev, no...?

>>106846254 (OP)
It will be hard to get a job without experience, you will be in similar situation ad 20 somethings fresh graduates just slightly worse.
The thing getting a degree is a waste of time, the reason people even go to uni (fir software developent) is to build connection, they don't actually go there to learn technical stuff. If you are 40yo and interested in software dev you should already know basics and be able to program in at least oneor two popular languages, if at this point you know nothing about programming and can't even manage basic stuff then you are just not meant for it.

>>106846254 (OP)
you do know ai took over, right?

>>106846400
>2. There are a quintillion jeets and other brownskins who are happy to work remotely on software projects for 1/100th your salary
each is producing -10,000$ in damages by writing a shitty code.

If company uses AI (generating for them), then how ever they manage to produce around -20,000$ per month in damages to code base.

>>106846254 (OP)
Its not too late, but it also depends on your previous xp. If you were neeting for the last two decades, then you need to fix whatever caused you to neet first. If you have any addictions like booze or vidya, you need to quit entirely.
If you have work experience and ideally some real skill, that's an advantage.
Are you actually interested in software engineering, or are you just trying to figure out a way to make money? Of latter, there are faster and easier ways to do so.
Also you may not need a degree to find work or get a job as long as you fully devote yourself to thsi for 2-3 years desu. And you will need to fully devote yourself to it because you are competing against a 20 year old who is working hard every day.

>>106848000
That's probably realistic. I helped a coworker fix some old software that was badly written. We spent months just fixing stupid bugs that a competent person wouldn't have written.
The original author wasn't even a jeet as far as I know.

>>106847813
>Software field is fucked, sitting in front of the screen and doing the next fucking app or n-th web shop or business shit is depressing. When I actually build something, like a small circuit breaker, hell even building something with Lego, gives more joy, than knowing I just fixed a bug for the biggest company in the food sector.
This here is a great post. I can sit in front of a screen for 3 days straight doing "the next fucking app" and it won't cause me any irritation or misery. Losing myself in such a state while programming is the best feeling ever, it's fulfilling
Now if I had to build a circuit breaker or even construct some lego, just thinking about causes me stress.

>>106847939
You know, if this was 2010, I would have said "majoring in EE is safer than majoring in CS/SWE".

But, wake up. I'm a 3 + 2 semester SWE dropout ,and I got myself loads and loads of electronics components and equipment. I can teach myself embedded engineering if I put my foot down and really grind at it.

I have bad eyes, and I don't have the money to buy a loupe. Otherwise, I would already do it.

I'm going to use my programming skills to make an embedded ANS FORTH that communicates via UART.

Those for whom programming starts and ends with webshit, are doomed to lose their jobs to AI.

There are oh, oh so many other things to do with a compooter. Whether be it a personal 'Wintel' PC, or an embedded tiny compooter.

I mentioned my embedded ANS FORTH. Here's another idea: make an OS that turns a tiny compooter into a 'micro timeserver'.

>>106846382
If you're 40 and haven't achieved a family you are (correctly) viewed as a failed human. The 40yo family man is even more employable than the 25yo fresh out of college kid.

>>106848064
Why would I want a family? I am in my 30s and already I find shit exhausting and hard to deal with. Why would I want kids, young children, a wife, disrupting my life?

> making an OS is hard, and only schizos with a tortured soul can do it.


Urrrm, no, actually??

https://github.com/Chubek/chubek/blob/master/os-howto-united.pdf

>>106847025
Do you really think nvidia or whoever else are going to provide accelerators good enough to generate real time photorealistic graphics at an acceptable framerate with reliable fluid output variables and thus put themselves out of business forever? really?

>>106848234
Nvidia would rather people use chips for compute on AI which has much bigger demand than specifically for graphics rendering the old way which is a limited market

Go into Electrical Engineering instead. You can get the same software jobs as CS ppl if you really wanted, but can just shift into hardware without worry of AI. EE is much harder than cs, most ppl end up getting filtered.

>>106846254 (OP)
Yes, don't even try. You will be wasting your time

>>106847938
>t. doesnt kno
electrician work is safe but the pay varies. "programmable" electrical engineering is already a thing and has been since before silicon transistors and is pretty much an entire field on its own. And it's safe too, if you aren't an idiot.

> to fucking sea navigation
I'm an ex-mariner, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

>>106848398
If I do I'll take just the Electronics Engineering part. Not the full EE (Electrical). I'm not interested with the macros, power generation, satellite communication etc. Only the micros.

ngl I can't imagine a worse hell than being a 40 year old stuck in some software engineering course surrounded by zoomer indians

good luck OP

>>106848443
more like surrounded by Chinese

>>106848000
true but that's not an actual recorded line item so they'll do it anyway.

>>106846254 (OP)
AI doesn't design, but anyone can build these days using AI. You should ask yourself if you have the patience to work all the tiny pieces of the system you're building, if you have the time to learn the vocabulary, the syntaxes etc, if you can keep track of the abstractions. All of this need like a decade to master so you will be competent at the very least in 5 years, or, you will be accredited but not competent for the many tools industry asks for in that timeframe. Either way it's a huge time expense.

>>106848359
>which is a limited market
There will always be a massive market for video games. They are the ultimate form of entertainment and they aren't ever going away.

>>106848359
answer the question please

>>106848443
nah, jeets do their courses in india where they can just bribe the teacher instead

>>106848443
I went to university 15 years ago and there were a lot of Indians in the beginning courses but they all got washed out by the third year, only Whites and Chinese were left.

>>106848493
Demand or chips rendering video games is minuscule compared to running AI models an will remain as such

>>106847938
Where would you market these compilers ? It sounds interesting.

>>106848494
I did

>>106846254 (OP)
Learn AI. It is the future.

>>106846254 (OP)
>Software Engineering

If you're not indian don't even bother

>>106848434
you can pick whatever elective courses you want. I am the same way, only care for micro electronics, but you will learn the basics eitherway with EE.

>>106848513
Realistically speaking how can AI have demand if the serious models are being developed by a handful of big companies, they can sell their shit to the businesses that will use it, the businesses themselves don't have the resource or a relevant use case to develop their own from scratch.

What will AI be used for anyways? Replace the indians at call centers? can small businesses run the cost in electricity and heating?

>>106848543
There's nothing to learn. Just write at it and it makes what you want. Doesn't even have to be good English or even English or even a real language, just vibe it.

>>106848510
Yet graduation is filled with them. They learn how to cheat and don’t need to go to class anymore

>>106848624
All my exams were in person, there were no Indians in the last two years. But that was 15 years ago, probably different now.

>>106848574
>how can AI have demand if the serious models are being developed by a handful of big companies
Because those big companies scale usage

>>106848574
>What will AI be used for anyways? Replace the indians at call centers?
Thats one use case but they seem to be going for all white collar jobs. Looking at Operator & Agentic AI demos they will probably achieve it when they have amassed enough compute

>can small businesses run the cost in electricity and heating?
I am guessing it will be like the cloud service model where the logistics of providing compute will be taken care of by tech giants who will charge a fee for its usage

>>106846254 (OP)
Yeah software engineering is going away in a few years. I'd study prompt engineering if I was you.

>>106848634
So what's unironically the future? blue collar mining?

>>106848624
Not that guy, but at my graduation there where mostly whites, arabs and blacks from Africa. Not that many asians, and next to no indians.

>>106848700
>So what's unironically the future?
Hard to predict, right now blue collar jobs like plumbers, carpenters seem to be the safest imo. But who knows if they are able to advanced robotics enough to do that as well

>>106848700
The future is the hardest most unpleasant manual labor. Robots don't want to do that.
HVAC installation / repair, cleaning sewers, plumbing, high voltage line maintenance, landscaping, deep sea welding, stuff like that.
As more people lose their jobs to automation there will be more competition for the fewer remaining jobs which means wages will go down.
So then jobs like robber, bandit, burglar, thief, assassin, bodyguard, contraband mule, smuggler, counterfeiter, and so on will have increased profitability, at least relative to a job like
>sanitation maintenance technician
>rockstars only apply
>16 hour shifts alternating night and day, as needed
>must supply own tools and equipment
>crawling, bending, stooping, diving, submerged for 30+ minutes at a time
>must have all current vaccines and innoculations against waste-borne diseases
>10+ years experience preferred
>also may be required to clean and recharge the entertainment robot in the office, as needed
>$0.95 / hr to start, potential for raise after 90 days

>>106848104
Kek, great job being an example of why single 40yos are failed humans.

>>106848700
become a mercenary, WWII will never happen but there's more regional flare-ups than ever

>>106848879
>WWII will never happen
t. brits 1938

>>106846536
You forgot that you also need to be gay/brown/indian/redditor and liberal to land a job at faang. T onsite interview at google that fell through because of a karen on round 4.

>>106846254 (OP)
40 is entering the "too old to live" territory, unless you spend most of your days playing with your grandchildren

>is 40 too old to start studying for one of the most notoriously age-prejudiced fields in the economy that is also currently being hammered by oversaturation and outsourcing?

no, great idea anon, I can see how you got to where you are today

>>106846254 (OP)
If you didn't listen to narrations of the C Bible while you were in your mom's womb, it was already over when you were born.

>>106848913
Look, man, everybody is using machine guns now. No real governments have them but if you can learn to use one and get a few strapping lads to carry one around, you'll make bank.

>>106848007
>Its not too late, but it also depends on your previous xp.
>If you have work experience and ideally some real skill, that's an advantage.
Yup, if he has some previous skill that can turn him into a cross-discipline expert. Something like doctor/lawyer/engineer/accountant etc. + programmer and then go on to write specialized software that needs both skills.

>>106846254 (OP)
Yes. Even if you have 5-10 years experience, it's hard to get SWE jobs now. I wouldn't recommend this field to anyone.

>>106846536
>you will work long hours
This is completely untrue. Every single programmer who posts on /g/ always brags about having fuck all to do and only working few hours per week...
I wish I went into programming because of this, but is too late and I am just working in IT

>>106846254 (OP)
join the police son

>>106847692
Why do you phrase English sentences like a German?

>>106849448
There's a maximum IQ limit and I'm off the charts.

>>106849494
join the RCMP

>>106849485
because I'm a german who lives in london

>>106846254 (OP)
If at 40 you never bothered to learn a programming language this is not for you.
Learn something different like cybersecurity, data analysis/science, IT, etc.
Just look at the job postings and learn something that you find somewhat appealing and is in demand.

>>106848064
Nobody cares if you have a kid or not, at least not at your favorite HR department.

>>106849299
>doctor
Im a doctor and the only thing I can do with the knowledge is make medical record bullshit. Other than that AI may take most doctor jobs or displace them to some lower paid PA data entry drone.

>>106846254 (OP)
>40 years old
>never went to college
Those are key credentials for a good software developer, assuming you started coding in 1993.

>>106846254 (OP)
> Is 40 too old
no
>Software Engineering?
yes, absolutely
even if you were 18 today, don't bother. CS and software engineering is a meme. Finding a place to get experience will be hell, and you will always be competing with jeets and ai that will do the same job as you for 1/3 or less of the cost. The fact that you don't have experience in coding tells me you probably don't have a passion for it, don't bother.

Obviously way too late to be a SE but is 33 too old to become just a jr dev who never will want more than like 130k?
I have 0 passion for it but I'm 125 IQ so I think I could hang once I get some experience.
Right now I'm in QA making 80k fully remote. It's not bad but being 2 years sober has made me feel like I'm wasting some potential.

>>106846683
It’s not contradictory. People want to hire the best but the bean counters and bottom line dominates all.

>>106848000
checked but yeah like the other anon said this is hard to quantify so the bean counter overlords don’t care. I don’t know if that’s ever going to change, we’d have to have a paradigm shift from quantity to quality or a way to quantify the quality

>>106846440
He's not asking you to fuck him. He's asking to work in exchange for money. Some will still take that offer even if he's a loser

>>106846683
The secret is that they actually have low hiring standards, which explains why so much of modern software is poorly written. Technical aptitude tests are mostly formalities that have minimal impact in the overall hiring process. People have generally judged other people's abilities based on superficial factors like appearances. The people that get hired based on superficial factors inevitably rise to management roles, poisoning the system with their incompetence.

>>106848753
>deep sea welding
Yeah, about that...
https://youtu.be/AKQ_lC8ECWc?si=7DVYPTYdpW7ePz8L
You'll eventually have more success getting a job as a remote robot operator than as an on-site worker. Then again, anybody who's ever had to use industrial robots will know that using one is more similar to driving a truck or operating a forklift than anything even remotely futuristic or intellectual.

>>106846254 (OP)
yes and yes

>>106846254 (OP)
Nope. Daily exercise and supplement intake will go a long way in extending the useful life of your decaying brain. I'm still learning shit everyday (not from scratch, but still) and I could probably get a job again as a software engineer if the field wasn't all pozzed and jeeted and totally not worth my time in 2025.

>>106848529
it was a yes or no question and you did neither

>>106848035
Useless and rightfully made redundant by ai.

>>106846464
>got instantly a job
yes sir very diverse hire sir, ageism not allowed sir.

>>106855207
It was a loaded question, I still gave you an answer but you dont want to agree that Nvidia does want its customer buying chips or AI since thats more lucrative