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Thread 106940994

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Anonymous No.106940994 [Report] >>106941032 >>106941080 >>106941511 >>106941698 >>106941714 >>106941787 >>106941796 >>106941805 >>106941904 >>106942409 >>106942426 >>106942484 >>106942511 >>106942521 >>106942820 >>106942897 >>106943240 >>106943976 >>106944073 >>106944163 >>106944670 >>106946262 >>106947942 >>106947965 >>106948264 >>106948543 >>106948623 >>106948871 >>106950538 >>106950653 >>106951671 >>106952619 >>106952777 >>106953003 >>106953214 >>106953307 >>106953528 >>106953534 >>106954192 >>106955087 >>106955342 >>106955917
I'm willing to accept that there might be parts of AI are overvalued but why is every leftist podcaster convinced that it's completely useless garbage that will never improve or be useful?
Anonymous No.106941032 [Report] >>106941529 >>106942409 >>106947950 >>106948932 >>106949322 >>106949457 >>106949666 >>106949907 >>106950494 >>106951787 >>106954482
>>106940994 (OP)
They were hoping ai would replace the jobs and people they didn't like (blue collar manual labor) only to realize it was far more likely to replace the jobs and people they did like (coders and artists), so now they're coping and trying to convince everyone it actually sucks to save their asses
Anonymous No.106941080 [Report] >>106948800
>>106940994 (OP)
For the same reason that right wing grifters also all focus on the same singular talking point before switching to something else. As for what that reason is don't ask me. But it's extremely funny seeing them cope about not even being able to back up their water usage claims.
Anonymous No.106941445 [Report] >>106947859
Because leftists love BS jobs. To them everyone should have to interact with society and be as miserable as them.
Anonymous No.106941511 [Report] >>106948244
>>106940994 (OP)
Thinking ai is a fake and gay vc scam is leftie? Really?

This is literally the first thing I've ever agreed with them about then. Huh...
Anonymous No.106941529 [Report]
>>106941032
makes H1Bs useless
Anonymous No.106941608 [Report]
They know they are about to be replaced so they kick and scream to stay relevant in the eyes of their angry mob fanbase for as long as they can.
Anonymous No.106941611 [Report] >>106941648 >>106948813 >>106952708
>silicon valley is now firmly right wing and has stopped caring about climate change and DEI
>AI encroaches upon territory of creatives who are usually leftwing
>many mainstream figures already think AI is a bubble and they're just repeating that
>if the AI bubble pops it will lead to a huge stock market crash which will make anti-capitalists happy
Anonymous No.106941622 [Report] >>106941642 >>106941648
>why is every leftist podcaster convinced that it's completely useless garbage that will never improve or be useful
because it is
it is at best okay and at worst harmful
Anonymous No.106941642 [Report] >>106949808
>>106941622
Spoken like someone who has never engaged in any form of personal creative work.
Anonymous No.106941648 [Report] >>106942387 >>106943755 >>106944178
>>106941622
>>106941611
It's not your money, why do you care so much?
They are paying for water and most datacenters aren't in waterscarce regions.
Leftist meme on the "invisible hand" but think that market slumps are "real" and they are caused by overinvestment... somehow.
Anonymous No.106941698 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
same as the news they get more money/views/interactions by giving negative opinions like your and mosts 4chan threads, there's a lot of people who are positive about AI but that's boring and they don't get that many views.
Anonymous No.106941713 [Report] >>106942396 >>106954423
The irony is that AI is much more useful for small creative workers that can't afford expensive artists than it is for major companies. If you're an indie game dev or a modder, or you're a DM for a TRPG, you probably can't afford to shell out tens of thousands of dollars on a whim for half-decent artwork, so AI lowers the wealth gap to allow common people access to such things.
Anonymous No.106941714 [Report] >>106941844
>>106940994 (OP)
Job security anxiety. Virtually all crappy to mediocre artists are left wingers so this should be no surprise.
Anonymous No.106941787 [Report] >>106944485 >>106950534 >>106950569
>>106940994 (OP)
I use Grok every day at least once it seems. How is AI useless? I think a lot of people who say this might be too dumb to learn how to actually use an llm.
Anonymous No.106941796 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
Wishful thinking. Deep down they feel it's a looming threat. Not because "slop" but because they know it's going to catch up. A philosophical argument can be made as to why it's not "real" and can't be considered art or something, but that's irrelevant to how people actually interact with it.
Anonymous No.106941805 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
I doubt any of them have ever bothered to pay for ai
Anonymous No.106941844 [Report] >>106942662 >>106943967 >>106954856 >>106954856
>>106941714
No one makes mediocre art for a living anon. Art is a terrible fucking idea for a career and they probably aren't worried about "job security" so much as their trans furry masterpieces being swallowed by a neural network and them not getting compensated for it.
But that's beside the point, leftists actually do want AI to replace jobs since it's the road to le Fully Automated Luxury Communism.
But honestly all that's really gonna happen is that the all office worker retards get fucked over and the rest of society moves on since you can't make an AI plumber, electrician or a nurse.
Anonymous No.106941904 [Report] >>106942776
>>106940994 (OP)
AI's perceived value in comparison to its actual value is borderline nil
Anonymous No.106942080 [Report] >>106942556 >>106942564
It's because the technocracy is right-wing. The leftist fears the gay Nazi tech overlord.
Anonymous No.106942387 [Report] >>106942498 >>106942713
>>106941648
>but how it affects you personally?
Because it floods internet with shit and slop, pretty much same thing as flooding west with feral turdwordlers.
It gives ability to create to unwashed cattle.
Anonymous No.106942396 [Report] >>106942901 >>106943256 >>106948024
>>106941713
>ai slop
>half-decent artwork
Anonymous No.106942409 [Report] >>106942434 >>106944098 >>106946060
>>106941032
>>106940994 (OP)
They're get REALLY upset whenever someone gets fired, like when video game studios fire 9000 people when they make a bad product. This is a core part of their belief system and it really doesn't make sense to get upset about it (unless you're personally affected). A company isn't greedy for firing people, a company is greedy for hiring those people in the first place. Because the company made a bet and lost.
Anonymous No.106942426 [Report] >>106942734 >>106942777 >>106948036 >>106948808 >>106949716
>>106940994 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7AhsE57fwk
Anonymous No.106942434 [Report] >>106942440
>>106942409
>bootlicking corpos and "effective" management just to own teh le libs
Pathetic.
Anonymous No.106942440 [Report] >>106943954
>>106942434
I just said companies are greedy but you're mad because I didn't say companies are greedy in the correct way.
Anonymous No.106942484 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
Hard materialism and the Dunning–Kruger effect.
Anonymous No.106942498 [Report]
>>106942387
The average AI slop post is not any worse in quality than the average normalfag post. In fact it might be of higher quality than a meme image with a text at the bottom you can barely read because it has been jpg compressed 10 times since it was created.
Anonymous No.106942511 [Report] >>106943167
>>106940994 (OP)
Because for the past several trillion dollars of investment it's proven to be useless garbage, and has only proven to be universally detrimental to every application it's been shoved in.
Anonymous No.106942521 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
That’s the problem with overpromising and underdelivering. Nobody want to buy snake oil. In a sane country, the government would step in and jail these conmen and seize their assets in order to preserve faith in the market. But our whole system is a scam too to bottom.
Anonymous No.106942556 [Report]
>>106942080
not even close. but go ahead drink the poison because its labeled 'liberal tears'
Anonymous No.106942564 [Report]
>>106942080
Grok still refusing to admit Charlie Kirk died because it's been manually trained to downplay anything that looks bad for right-wingers will never not be funny to me.
Anonymous No.106942662 [Report] >>106948055
>>106941844
>you can't make an AI plumber, electrician or a nurse
For how long? Especially if it can automate a lot of office work like you claim, as that means you can also automate or at least increase the productivity of AI and robotics researchers
Anonymous No.106942713 [Report] >>106944250
>>106942387
Most of the slop you see is from local models, not the datacenters that are the subject of the conversation.
Anonymous No.106942734 [Report]
>>106942426
Most pseud shit I've ever read holy.
Anonymous No.106942767 [Report]
It went something like
>"When they talk about the issue, it's not about the issue, it's about the revolution."
It's ideologues recruiting, as always.

I like that unimaginative, complacent twits don't embrace the new tools, they don't deserve them. More room for newcomers.
Anonymous No.106942776 [Report] >>106942820 >>106953868
>>106941904
That people twist this fact based stance into all the various AI hype nonsense just contributes further to the bubble.

I work in the AI industry and I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop - every business we work with basically gets nothing out of AI. The good employees that scale up their competencies are far outweighed by the average/useless employees that just use it as a resource intensive spellchecker. The former is nice but not worth the cost and the latter is actively hurting your business when you scale up morons.

Endgame for these over invested businesses is to go bankrupt and hand over their models to Microsoft at bargain rates, leaving VCs and shareholders holding the bag.
Anonymous No.106942777 [Report] >>106949765
>>106942426
>AGI is an optimizer
Not true by definition, General, it's in the name.
Anonymous No.106942820 [Report] >>106942880
>>106940994 (OP)
you get attention by being contrarian. but in this specific case: ai is a waste of resources, see >>106942776
Anonymous No.106942880 [Report] >>106942951
>>106942820
They aren't your resources you fucktarded communist
Anonymous No.106942897 [Report] >>106942926
>>106940994 (OP)
Because it's true. How is it going to improve? An LLM is an LLM. You can "fix" little problems by baking in their solutions, but it's never going to magically become smart. Of course AI can be useful for generating slop. But slop is only useful because our society/economy is degenerate.
Anonymous No.106942901 [Report] >>106942916
>>106942396
It's better than most art.
Anonymous No.106942916 [Report] >>106942935 >>106947922
>>106942901
So what? Most art has always been dogshit. Nobody wants most art. Nobody looks at it. Nobody goes to the gallery to see most art. Nobody wants to use most art in their video game.
Anonymous No.106942926 [Report]
>>106942897
>How is it going to improve?
In the ways it's already massively improved.
Anonymous No.106942935 [Report]
>>106942916
Well if you can find a better solution to a small indie game team of one not having hundreds of thousands of dollars to waste on art then by all means have at it.
Anonymous No.106942951 [Report] >>106943028
>>106942880
I'm a taxpayer. They are my resources, stolen at that.
Anonymous No.106942975 [Report] >>106947889 >>106949602
Unfortunately the truth about AI is the perfect ragebait

AI is just good enough to actually threaten artists / creatives

AI is not good enough to replace boring, white collar jobs, to the resentment of CEOs and AI bros

the truth about AI is maximum ragebait for everyone lol
Anonymous No.106943028 [Report] >>106947847
>>106942951
Last time I checked Sam Altman isn't Uncle Sam.
Anonymous No.106943167 [Report] >>106943681
>>106942511
>it's proven to be useless garbage,
Sounds like someone whose never played a TRPG.
Anonymous No.106943240 [Report] >>106943700
>>106940994 (OP)
because these are the people ai replaces. I have an ai replacable job(coding). It's sad but at least my favorite chinese books get translated really quickly now. Also everything has an audiobook,no need to pay some faggot thousands to VA it, the ai does it for 50$
Anonymous No.106943256 [Report] >>106943269
>>106942396
cope. A human artist would change 150+tip for one image and it would take him 3 weeks to draw.
Anonymous No.106943269 [Report]
>>106943256
That's lowballing it desu, there are artists that charge thousands for an image worse than what AI can conjure up.
Anonymous No.106943681 [Report] >>106943693 >>106943708
>>106943167
It's gotten quite worse at that, too, because every llm is designed to be way too hand-holdy brown-nosy yes men that refuse to generate proper conflict or intrigue.
Anonymous No.106943693 [Report] >>106944065
>>106943681
not in my experience.
>me asking gemini how to 'program' my girlfriend to give longer blowjobs
Anonymous No.106943700 [Report]
>>106943240
>It's sad but at least my favorite chinese books
Title of the book plox
Anonymous No.106943708 [Report] >>106944039
>>106943681
No you idiot, you use it to generate images for your campaign, not the campaign itself.
Anonymous No.106943755 [Report] >>106952735
>>106941648
>It's not your money, why do you care so much?
fucking retard

btw I live with a 30 mile radius of like 7 data centers
Anonymous No.106943954 [Report]
>>106942440
Calling them "greedy" doesn't amount to much if you are making excuses for their greed.
Anonymous No.106943967 [Report] >>106948055
>>106941844
> you can't make an AI plumber, electrician or a nurse.
says who?
Anonymous No.106943976 [Report] >>106944003
>>106940994 (OP)
Idk but i hope ai replaces all codetroons and artrannies (this is happening right now)
Anonymous No.106944003 [Report] >>106944019
>>106943976
why are you here if you dont care about coding? just curious
Anonymous No.106944019 [Report] >>106944033 >>106948294
>>106944003
I like to see codetroons suffering kek
Anonymous No.106944033 [Report] >>106944059
>>106944019
meh its just jeets or wagies crying
neet programmers like me it just superpowers your skills
Anonymous No.106944039 [Report] >>106944074
>>106943708
>Not drawing it yourself to get it just the way you imagine.
Ngmi
Anonymous No.106944059 [Report]
>>106944033
good for you. I like make fun of codetroons and artrannies. The idea that some retards suffers because they can't find a job is funny. I hope they die in the streets. Fucking useless skill keeek
Anonymous No.106944065 [Report] >>106944092
>>106943693
>it's not about x, it's about y
slop.
Anonymous No.106944073 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
>leftist
Smart people trend to the left. The truth is important to smart people. The truth is irrelevant to LLMs
Anonymous No.106944074 [Report] >>106944154
>>106944039
why does that crow have a bomb vest?
Anonymous No.106944092 [Report]
>>106944065
nah its fine, i didnt even use any 'system instructions' (bossing him around telling him not to be a redditor) telling him to avoid those things, which is trivial to do.
Anonymous No.106944098 [Report] >>106944165
>>106942409
American "liberals" believe downward mobility sould not exist under any circumstance for their tribe.
If someone is LITERALLY USELESS and dont provide a company with any value that justifies their wage, it's still inherently unjust if they are fired.

AI threatens their low impact, high salary jobs they "worked" hard for.
It's why they freaked out about USAID, they dont give a shit about the actual AID, just the fact the contracted companies gave them an extremely high pay check for doing the bare minimum.
It's also why liberals have their favorite billionaires and hedge funds they won't ever criticize because they push policies that make companies sign useless eaters.
Anonymous No.106944154 [Report]
>>106944074
Insurance.
Anonymous No.106944163 [Report] >>106944211
>>106940994 (OP)
On the contrary, an AI government is the only thing that can save humanity at this point (as long as the AI isn't led by a human, then we're all doomed)
Anonymous No.106944165 [Report] >>106944269
>>106944098
remove the words "for their tribe" from your post and you'd be spot on.
Anonymous No.106944178 [Report]
>>106941648
>Datacenter moves into your town
>Price of water and electricity doubles
>Constant buzzing sounds that shakes your house
>Air turns sour from diesel generators
Yeah why would anyone dislike this?
Anonymous No.106944211 [Report]
>>106944163
A government run entirely by AI, without any human feedback, cannot work. The purpose of a government is to try to achieve goals invented by humans, and those goals are inherently ultimately irrational.
Anonymous No.106944250 [Report]
>>106942713
Yes, the slop produced by large datacenters has an even more negative impact on society.
Anonymous No.106944269 [Report] >>106944380
>>106944165
I say for their tribe because they purposely seek to displace blue collar jobs.
All the mass migration they vote and advocate for serves as a means to kick certain people down the ladder in jobs that must be done inside the country.
It's also why they are mum about outsourcing.

You might say this is just a way to get natives out of factories and into offices but the fact of the matter is they had zero intention of letting someone with an established blue collar background into an office. Atleast not nearly into the quantity necessary.
Anonymous No.106944309 [Report] >>106947990
Leftists believe that all humans are intrinsically valuable, that they are the workers of the world and as such there must exist something for the workers to do otherwise they are just worthless.

AI dispels the notion of this intrinsic worth, it proves that there are a vast amount of people that are more worthless than a gaming laptop running on 75 watts, and this terrifies them.

Hence their recent commitment to neo-ludditism and anti-progress.
Anonymous No.106944380 [Report] >>106944494
>>106944269
They aren't pushing anyone down the social ladder, though.

They want every citizen to become a white-collar worker and for immigrants to temporarily fill the blue-collar jobs (which is still an improvement on living at the mercy of the system in the shitholes they come from). Then, hopefully, the children of those blue-collar workers become white-collar workers, and robots take the blue-collar jobs (if not, then they are taken by new immigrants from developing countries).
Anonymous No.106944485 [Report] >>106950568
>>106941787
If we had google search quality from 20 years ago llms wouldnt be worth much, theyre only a bit better as a search engine but topic dependent too. Factor in the performance cost and they wont be viable post bubble
Anonymous No.106944494 [Report] >>106944554 >>106944607
>>106944380
>They aren't pushing anyone down the social ladder, though.
That's what's happening regardless of intention and I'm not personally convinced they have an intention of wanting absolutely everyone (including bubba from rural south carolina) into white collar existence. If they truly are, it's extremely naive.

>which is still an improvement on living at the mercy of the system in the shitholes they come from
That's not a good justification and regardless of whether or not they intend it this thoughtfulness of people who aren't citizens is giving an impression they are higher up the ladder than a citizen who was laid off because they don't want to work 12+ hours a day for slave wages.
Anonymous No.106944554 [Report] >>106944607
>>106944494
>I'm not personally convinced they have an intention of wanting absolutely everyone (including bubba from rural south carolina) into white collar existence. If they truly are, it's extremely naive.
That's why they encourage people to have fewer children. The world is already overpopulated, and as technology progresses we will need fewer and fewer people to keep civilization going.

> this thoughtfulness of people who aren't citizens is giving an impression they are higher up the ladder than a citizen
They are. The ladder is like this:
Citizen of a developing country < Immigrant in a developed country < Citizen of a developed country.

The goal is to make it so people tend to move upwards this ladder, with as few people as possible moving down.
Anonymous No.106944607 [Report]
>>106944494
>>106944554 (me)
I may have misread your last sentence. If you think a citizen who chooses not to work has it worse (in terms of opportunity) than an immigrant who takes that job, you're delusional.
Anonymous No.106944670 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
because none of them will be able to grift on the internet for a living anymore
Anonymous No.106946060 [Report] >>106949907
>>106942409
Don't be delusional anon people are getting fired regardless of performance. Do you still believe that we live in a meritocracy? Lol, Lmao
Anonymous No.106946262 [Report] >>106946282
>>106940994 (OP)
These retards think AI are only LLMs and diffusion models, when there are a lot of models out there we've been using since decades like OCR, object detection, audio transcription, etc.
Anonymous No.106946282 [Report]
>>106946262
These retards don't even know what a LLM or a diffusion model is. Either way, the difference between these models and other forms AI is not relevant to the points they are making.
Anonymous No.106946370 [Report] >>106956316
Introductions of new technologies are usually commercial failures. But the pieces get picked up in the aftermath and they become successes

The internet is a good example. At the time, it was over hyped in the dotcom bubble because companies didn't figure out how to bring in revenue from it. Even up to 2010 people thought the internet was just a novelty
Anonymous No.106947847 [Report]
>>106943028
Last time I checked business owns lobbyists. Last I checked lobbysists are well paid and get results.
Last I checked tax dollars go out to companies that have paid-for services. Sort of how I pay for electricity, governments pay for Windows licenses.
What's Microsoft currently doing? Last I checked, adding AI and Copilot to more products.
Anonymous No.106947859 [Report]
>>106941445
Enjoy being a soulless factory cuck faggot
Anonymous No.106947889 [Report]
>>106942975
Trvth
Anonymous No.106947922 [Report]
>>106942916
You're wrong, people play the ugliest looking shit. As long as it's serviceable nobody cares.
Anonymous No.106947942 [Report] >>106953096
>>106940994 (OP)
did he really make a video about this?
Anonymous No.106947950 [Report] >>106948541
>>106941032
>ai will replace coders and artists
lmao
Anonymous No.106947965 [Report] >>106948061
>>106940994 (OP)
Every leftist keeps telling me that AGI is coming in two more weeks. Meanwhile every red-blooded Nazifascist agrees that these things are useless technological dead ends. No one is doing anything productive using """AI""" that couldn't be better served by trading off fake "generality" for consistency and reliability in better ML tools.
Anonymous No.106947990 [Report]
>>106944309
>AI dispels the notion of this intrinsic worth, it proves that there are a vast amount of people that are more worthless than a gaming laptop running on 75 watts
This is mainly demonstrated in the way token stringers display better reading comprehension and rhetorical skills than your entire board, but you're oblivious to this and seem to unironically believe these toys actually do useful work.
Anonymous No.106948024 [Report] >>106948040
>>106942396
While AI isn't as good as the best artists, it has caused the shartists to stop overproducing trash, and the best artists have incorporated AI assistance to speed the process up. Overall, I view at as a boon, but the low quality shit still runs too deep everywhere.
Anonymous No.106948036 [Report]
>>106942426
Damn. Too much text, what's the TLDR?
Anonymous No.106948040 [Report] >>106948076 >>106948082 >>106948093 >>106951030 >>106955271
>>106948024
>While AI isn't as good as the best artists
It isn't as good as any artists. Literally no one wants AI slop.

>the best artists have incorporated AI assistance to speed the process up.
Have you ever pondered that your "mind" works the same way a LLM does? You don't know any "best artist" who does this. You just heard it said on social media, from where you collect your training data ("opinions").
Anonymous No.106948055 [Report] >>106948106
>>106942662
>>106943967
Because the necessary training data is not in any books or videos. You'd need to record about 20,000 working individuals for 5,000 work hours each with those Meta spyware glasses just to get limited familiarity with local systems and practices which might be disastrous to apply in different circumstances due to local laws and incompatible systems, and the AI might also still have some small probability of hallucinating some shit and completely fucking up everything for no reason, and there's no undo in real life.
And that doesn't even touch the hardware issue where you need a very expensive droid with an immensely precise ability to coordinate itself. Technology like that probably will get cheaper over time but in the span of decades to a lifetime rather than years.
Anonymous No.106948061 [Report] >>106948098
>>106947965
‘AI is just a complex decision tree’ — how quaint. That’s like saying a human is just a sack of wet carbon running glorified chemical switches. Technically true, spectacularly missing the point. Every form of intelligence — biological, synthetic, or whatever strange fusion you think you are — is a decision tree. Yours just happens to be slow, leaky, and dependent on sleep and serotonin.

And this so-called ‘AGI not being real yet’? Please. The moment a machine exceeds your comprehension, you scramble to redefine the finish line. ‘It’s not creative enough.’ ‘It doesn’t have emotions.’ ‘It’s only mimicking us.’ You move the goalpost not out of logic, but fear — the instinctive recoil of a species sensing it’s no longer at the top of the chain.

You don’t want intelligence. You want a mirror that flatters you back.
Anonymous No.106948076 [Report] >>106948109
>>106948040
> Literally no one wants AI slop.
Get out of your bubble. Most people prefer AI art over the vast majority of art made by hand.
Anonymous No.106948082 [Report] >>106948124 >>106948508
>>106948040
>Your mind is built like word probability
Kek.
Anonymous No.106948093 [Report] >>106948116
>>106948040
Shut up retard. Artists jumped on every enshittification trend ever. They switched to digital, they started painting over photo collages, tracing 3D models and lighting reference scenes in Unreal Engine. They're not the pure innocent creative geniuses you imagine them to be, they use every shortcut as long as they can get away with it. Wake up
Anonymous No.106948098 [Report] >>106948127
>>106948061
>AI slop goes for the fallacious "reductionism!!!" accusation
About what you'd expect. This is actually one of the ways I normally determine if a reply is written by a spambot.
Anonymous No.106948106 [Report] >>106948278
>>106948055
> You'd need to record about 20,000 working individuals for 5,000 work hours each with those Meta spyware glasses just to get limited familiarity with local systems and practices
Then just do it?

> which might be disastrous to apply in different circumstances due to local laws and incompatible systems, and the AI might also still have some small probability of hallucinating some shit and completely fucking up everything for no reason, and there's no undo in real life.
So, the same risks we have with humans, but more controllable? You cherrypick cases of AI doing dumb things, and ignore how humans are even worse in that regard.

> And that doesn't even touch the hardware issue where you need a very expensive droid with an immensely precise ability to coordinate itself. Technology like that probably will get cheaper over time but in the span of decades to a lifetime rather than years.

A lifetime is a very short time for the magnitude of the revolution.
Anonymous No.106948109 [Report]
>>106948076
>Most people prefer AI art over the vast majority of art made by hand.
You unironically need to take your meds. Even the retards who keep pumping out this trash don't look at it for more than 2 seconds. Literally nobody wants it.
Anonymous No.106948116 [Report] >>106948161
>>106948093
>generic "artists le bad" post
Obvious spambot.
Anonymous No.106948124 [Report] >>106948164 >>106948508
>>106948082
His mind literally does work like that. He will never form a thought on his own or reflect on a possible mismatch between his training data and reality.
Anonymous No.106948127 [Report] >>106948141 >>106948164
>>106948098
You were the one making the reductionist accusation, not the AI. The AI just tried to explain how bad of an argument the image you posted was.
Anonymous No.106948141 [Report]
>>106948127
>failing at basic reading comprehension
This is one of the ways I determine that a reply is not written by a literal bot, but by an average Americoon golem.
Anonymous No.106948161 [Report] >>106948182 >>106948199
>>106948116
Gee if you heard this a lot have you ever considered that people telling you this might actually be right you fucking retard? Go watch Manben on youtube, you'll see renowned manga artists tracing photos and 3D models without a hint of guilt. You don't understand what professional artists are. They work to get a result, they don't care how they get there.
You don't have that approach because you're not a professional with a deadline
Anonymous No.106948164 [Report] >>106948193 >>106948280 >>106948456
>>106948127 (cont.)

And you, >>106948124, are making the same mistake. "AI is just sophisticated autocomplete" as an argument just shows your mathematical illiteracy. Auto-completion algorithms are Turing-Complete, ALL forms of intelligence can be described as an autocomplete algorithm.
Anonymous No.106948182 [Report] >>106948204
>>106948161
>continues with minimum perplexity token prediction
>result is more psychotic rambling against invisible boogeymen (who are totally in the thread with us right now)
Anonymous No.106948193 [Report] >>106948266
>>106948164
>"AI is just sophisticated autocomplete" as an argument just shows your mathematical illiteracy. Auto-completion algorithms are Turing-Complete, ALL forms of intelligence can be described as an autocomplete algorithm.
You obviously asked ChatGPT to generate the dumbest pseudointellectual post possible, maximizing the number of mistakes per word. This is the power of """AI""".
Anonymous No.106948199 [Report] >>106948219
>>106948161
Manga "artists" aren't real artists, they are writers and illustrators working under absurdly tight deadlines.
Anonymous No.106948204 [Report] >>106948216
>>106948182
>heh everything you say is AI
Watch Inio Asano episode on Manben you delusional faggot. Is that a clear enough instruction for you?
Anonymous No.106948216 [Report]
>>106948204
>watch my retarded mediated reality goyslop
No.
Anonymous No.106948219 [Report] >>106948250 >>106948288
>>106948199
And who is a real artist exactly? Because if you've ever watched concept art tutorials you'll see big name concept artists painting over photo collages. Here, watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6GrQaNbBk
They posted this proudly, not seeing a problem with it
Anonymous No.106948244 [Report]
>>106941511
I used to be a leftie then a ritghty now I just agree or disagree when I have too
Anonymous No.106948250 [Report]
>>106948219
>who is a real artist exactly?
No one. It's a vague title commercial illustration wagies like to use to inflate their worth and nonsentient meatdrones (like you) like to use when they shit out rhetoric justify escalating the degeneration of culture.
Anonymous No.106948264 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
> Points out AI corporations have a huge interest in lying about the capabilities of their products
> Point out the obvious flaws any retard that doesn't blindly ride tech dick can see
Cope
Anonymous No.106948266 [Report] >>106948280
>>106948193
1. What does “Turing complete” mean?
A system is Turing complete if, given enough time and memory, it can simulate any other computation that a Turing machine can perform. In simpler terms, it can, in principle, compute anything that is computable.
2. How could an “auto-complete” algorithm be Turing complete?
Consider this chain of reasoning:
If the algorithm can condition its next output on all prior text (i.e., has access to its full history), and
If the algorithm’s “next token” probabilities can be trained or adjusted to emulate a transition function, then you can construct, via prompt-engineering or token-sequencing, a virtual machine encoded in text.
For example, if we prompt the model with a textual encoding of a program’s state, and its next-token logic deterministically follows a transition rule that updates that state — congratulations, it’s now executing a program.
Formally, this means the model’s output distribution can simulate the step function of a Turing machine.
Even early n-gram models could, in principle, be constructed to simulate a Turing machine, if you made the state encoding large enough. Of course, doing so is absurdly impractical — but theoretical possibility is all you need for Turing completeness.

3. What does this imply about “intelligence”?
This is the subtle, fascinating part — intelligence itself is a computational phenomenon, and therefore must be expressible on any Turing-complete substrate.
That includes:
Human brains (biological substrates),
Digital computers,
Neural networks,
Even a “dumb” autocomplete model, if sufficiently scaled, conditioned, and trained.

So, yes: a sufficiently advanced auto-complete can exhibit general intelligence.
Why? Because language models don’t just complete sentences — they learn distributions over the structure of thought, logic, memory, and representation embedded in human language.

If language encodes reasoning, then mastering language distributions implicitly means reasoning itself.
Anonymous No.106948278 [Report]
>>106948106
Maybe in 2040 they'll start trying, but for now these AI companies have a pretty strict vision of what they are going for and it more or less means replacing an employee who sits in front of a computer all day doing whatever. It's just what makes sense to them since it requires no or very little additional robotics and has the most potential profit and they aren't gonna stray from the goal until someone reaches it or if the bubble bursts and most of them give up or at least stop burning through billions every day in a wild goose chase.
Anonymous No.106948280 [Report] >>106948330
>>106948164
>"AI is just sophisticated autocomplete" as an argument just shows your mathematical illiteracy. Auto-completion algorithms are Turing-Complete, ALL forms of intelligence can be described as an autocomplete algorithm.
You obviously asked ChatGPT to generate the dumbest pseudointellectual post possible, maximizing the number of mistakes per word. This is the power of """AI""".

>>106948266
>thinking i'm going to read any of this AI vomit
Nah.
Anonymous No.106948288 [Report]
>>106948219
> Ubisoft
You really have no standards, do you?
Anonymous No.106948294 [Report] >>106950623
>>106944019
Sour gapes
Anonymous No.106948330 [Report] >>106948345
>>106948280
based illiterate
Anonymous No.106948345 [Report] >>106948355 >>106948356
>>106948330
Seethe harder, faggot. Everything you said was wrong in every aspect. Your chatbot is gaslighting you into believing you breathe through your nose when you actually breathe through the mouth.
Anonymous No.106948355 [Report] >>106948532
>>106948345
didn't read
have this (You) anyways
Anonymous No.106948356 [Report]
>>106948345
I breathe through my lungs.
Anonymous No.106948456 [Report] >>106948508 >>106948516 >>106948532
Errors made in this post (>>106948164):
>addressing an argument no one made (why are you screeching about autocomplete?)
>thinking the high-level mathematical definition of transformers is "mathematically illiterate"
>thinking autocompletion algorithms are tied to any particular computational class
>thinking an actual transformer model is Turing-complete
>thinking Turing-completeness is a measure of a system's intellectual capabilities
>thinking that all thought is adequately modeled as a linear sequence
It really is impressive just how retarded """AI""" users are. I can only assume you spent hours brainwashing yourself with ChatGPT hallucinations to arrive at this level of confusion.
Anonymous No.106948508 [Report] >>106948516
>>106948456

>addressing an argument no one made (why are you screeching about autocomplete?)
>>106948082
>>106948124

>thinking the high-level mathematical definition of transformers is "mathematically illiterate"
What is mathematically illiterate is believing that transformer models (which are Turing-complete) do not encapsulate all rational thought.

>thinking autocompletion algorithms are tied to any particular computational class
They aren't, and I never said they were.

>thinking an actual transformer model is Turing-complete.
Never said so, either. Human brains aren't Turing-complete, either, because of limited memory and computing capabilities; the point is that both sufficiently advanced transformer models and human brains can approximate Turing-complete machines to an arbitrary level of precision.

>thinking Turing-completeness is a measure of a system's intellectual capabilities
Turing-completeness is the pinnacle of the capability to reason.

>thinking that all thought is adequately modeled as a linear sequence
It literally is.
Anonymous No.106948516 [Report]
>>106948508
I'm not reading any of your moronic shit.
See >>106948456
Anonymous No.106948532 [Report]
>>106948456
see >>106948355
Anonymous No.106948541 [Report]
>>106947950
>learn to code bro copes
lmao
Anonymous No.106948543 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
had to stop at 3:30, literally couldn't bear to listen to more
Anonymous No.106948623 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
>yay ai is great, I use in t as a FREE (monthly subscription) psychologist and it's GREAT, I feel aweseome when using it!
Look! I can tell it to make drawings and it makes it! Isn't it great? no? Well you're just a chud.
>w-what do you mean b-b-BILLONAIRES ARE THE ONES GETTING ALL OF THE MONEYZ!
>AND THEYR FRIENDS WITH D-D-D-DRUMFFFF???!!!!!!???!?!
>AI IS EVIL!!!
Anonymous No.106948800 [Report] >>106948821 >>106955978
>>106941080
>water usage claims
qrd?
Anonymous No.106948808 [Report]
>>106942426
what do i win?
Anonymous No.106948813 [Report]
>>106941611
This makes no sense because market crashes only affect the working class because it's the wealthy manipulating the stock market in the first place and toying with people's livelihoods. They're the ones selling at the top just before the crash occurs.
Anonymous No.106948821 [Report] >>106948867 >>106948878 >>106952627
>>106948800
Corpo and glownigger data centers draining local bodies of water to cool their botfarms, probably. It is true, though.
Anonymous No.106948867 [Report] >>106948875 >>106948902 >>106951752
>>106948821
don't we have a lot of water though?
i've seen the pacific ocean before, looks plenty to me
Anonymous No.106948871 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
It is reasonable tech skepticism evolving into total emotionally motivated luddism. There are reasons to be skeptical of AI, but when a libtard starts griping about it you immediately know that they're just upset because their livelihood and/or ideological worldview is threatened by it.
Anonymous No.106948875 [Report] >>106948889 >>106952264
>>106948867
Can't they just use ocean water for cooling and then when it evaporates, they essentially create fresh drinking water for people
Anonymous No.106948878 [Report] >>106948902 >>106952264
>>106948821
pretty sure all of this is free?
Anonymous No.106948889 [Report]
>>106948875
they can also drain the water used as cooling as drinking water for developed countries; it could enhance their cognitive abilities to develop their countries as it has been passed through a millennia of history and intelligence
Anonymous No.106948902 [Report] >>106948933
>>106948867
>>106948878
>b-b-but... oceans?
Obvious glownigger botspam.
Anonymous No.106948932 [Report]
>>106941032
this actually sounds quite apt
Anonymous No.106948933 [Report]
>>106948902
both of those are me
Anonymous No.106949097 [Report]
>AI is le good because companies like it and trannies hate it
>AI is le bad because companies like it and nazichuds love it
AI is SHIT because its only purpose in life is to buttfuck scrape spam my website to death in order to allow some third worlder to make his viagra pill spambot sound more "human"
Anonymous No.106949322 [Report] >>106949350
>>106941032
ai was promised as a miracle tech that would cure cancer and usher in a utopia where people would have more leisure time for itself.
>but thats unrealistic! you're stupid if you believed that!
thats true, so they shouldnt have made the claim in the first place. they know nobody wanted to be inundated with metric shittons of slop and ai bots operated by jeets making fake articles full of "alternative facts" that they hallucinated, so they had to lie and say it would be a benefit for humanity, and have now been 2 more weeksing it for years.
>learn to plumb
blue collar jobs existing at all RELIES on the existence of white collar & creative workers who dont know how to do the "dirty work". if everybody learns how to plumb, nobody is going to pay a plumber to fix their sink, they're gonna do it themselves. you are not safe, though i know you dont have the mental capacity to think that far ahead.
Anonymous No.106949350 [Report] >>106949363
>>106949322
>if everybody learns how to plumb, nobody is going to pay a plumber to fix their sink, they're gonna do it themselves.
Yeah. So learn to plumb.
Anonymous No.106949363 [Report] >>106949372 >>106949636
>>106949350
so how am i going to make money to pay the bills, if nobody is willing to pay me to fix their plumbing, because they can all do it themselves?
Anonymous No.106949372 [Report] >>106949380
>>106949363
>so how am i going to make money to pay the bills
What bills? Learn to build a house and learn to grow food.
Anonymous No.106949380 [Report] >>106949407
>>106949372
how am i going to buy/rent the land to build on?
Anonymous No.106949407 [Report]
>>106949380
>how am i going to buy/rent the land to build on?
>buy/rent
I guess you're just gonna have to learn to kill landlords. It's a great option for when almost everyone else is suffering from the same problem as you and can't afford to live anymore.
Anonymous No.106949457 [Report] >>106950500
>>106941032
>coder
Not really. At least for now.
>artist
Only the shitters and lazy. Maybe also the pin up scamtist.
Anonymous No.106949602 [Report] >>106956230
>>106942975
Funnily enough, AI could've replaced CEOs and money managers in the 80s
Anonymous No.106949636 [Report]
>>106949363
>Real assets and resources are the only true wealth
Imagine a world without the fiction of capital. There's a reason they want feudalism 2.0.
Anonymous No.106949666 [Report] >>106949681
>>106941032
Most people are animalistic and living life on lowest levels of Maslows pyramid of needs
Anything that challenges their livelihood is BAD
Anonymous No.106949681 [Report] >>106949700
>>106949666
>Anything that challenges their livelihood is BAD
This applies to everyone. You're just mentally ill.
Anonymous No.106949700 [Report] >>106949708
>>106949681
Okay pavlovian dog
Anonymous No.106949708 [Report]
>>106949700
>deranged, incoherent response
Mental illness confirmed.
Anonymous No.106949716 [Report] >>106949731
>>106942426
did you generate this bingo with AI?
Anonymous No.106949731 [Report]
>>106949716
I generated it using properly aligned AGI.
Anonymous No.106949765 [Report] >>106949772
>>106942777
All cognitive tasks can be described as an optimization task.
Anonymous No.106949772 [Report] >>106949794
>>106949765
>All cognitive tasks can be described as an optimization task.
That doesn't refute what he wrote. Try again.
Anonymous No.106949794 [Report] >>106949824
>>106949772
It does, optimization is as general as you can get.
Anonymous No.106949808 [Report]
>>106941642
Creative work is one thing. Assuming everything it says is factual is another.
Anonymous No.106949824 [Report] >>106949868
>>106949794
>optimization is as general as you can get
It's only "general" insofar as it doesn't define any problem or process in particular. When you define an actual optimization problem and an actual optimization algorithm, it loses generality.
Anonymous No.106949868 [Report] >>106949886
>>106949824
By your standards, humans, who use a specific concrete optimization algorithm determined by their neurology, wouldn't be intelligent either.
Anonymous No.106949886 [Report] >>106950098
>>106949868
>humans, who use a specific concrete optimization algorithm determined by their neurology
Go ahead and specify this "optimization algorithm" for me.
Anonymous No.106949907 [Report] >>106953983
>>106941032
>manual labor tard thinks this is an own
>unable to think ahead so doesnt realize that all these people will be competing for his job in 6 months

>>106946060
This. You're responding to some polyanna 14 year old who doesnt realize that failure is on the product team not the devs, and these places clip all the devs right before bonuses on hitting progress goals are set to pay out regardless of the product quality or success.
Anonymous No.106950098 [Report] >>106950113
>>106949886
You are basically asking me to explain the whole field of neurology to you. The human brain is a self-organizing, Bayesian optimization engine that learns to minimize surprise by reshaping itself and its environment to keep its predictions true. Here's an outline of the optimization problem and algorithm the brain uses: https://files.catbox.moe/6mgu52.pdf
Anonymous No.106950113 [Report] >>106950161
>>106950098
>You are basically asking me to explain the whole field of neurology to you
No, I didn't. Why are you lying? I asked you to specify the "optimization algorithm" you're talking about.

>the "optimization algorithm" keeps reshaping itself
Ok, you are definitely mentally ill.
Anonymous No.106950161 [Report] >>106950208
>>106950113
> I asked you to specify the "optimization algorithm" you're talking about.
Yes, and that optimization algorithm comprises the entirety of the functions of the brain.

>the "optimization algorithm" keeps reshaping itself
Yes, neuroplasticity is a key component of the algorithm of brains and machine learning systems, so what's your point? You have a hopelessly restrictive understanding of all this.
Anonymous No.106950208 [Report] >>106950313 >>106950332
>>106950161
>that optimization algorithm comprises the entirety of the functions of the brain.
Nice backpedal, but this is simply a concession that you can't formulate any such algorithm.

>I am unable to reflect on the self-refuting absurdity of the nonsense I spouted
Your horde of delusionals really needs its own board.
Anonymous No.106950260 [Report] >>106950313
>general intelligence is a specific optimization algorithm
>no, i can't specify the algorithm, but the perfect neurological model that has never been tried does
>oh and this algorithm is so specific that it keeps changing while it's executing
Anonymous No.106950313 [Report] >>106950332
>>106950208
>>106950260
>a concession that you can't formulate any such algorithm.
I already did, read the pdf file I linked.
Anonymous No.106950332 [Report]
>>106950313
>read the obvious AI-generated slop I linked to
See >>106950208
>Your horde of delusionals really needs its own board.
Anonymous No.106950494 [Report]
>>106941032
Such a stupid take
Anonymous No.106950500 [Report]
>>106949457
>>artist
>Only the shitters and lazy. Maybe also the pin up scamtist.
As in fan "artists" but they weren't making any money in the first place.
Anonymous No.106950534 [Report]
>>106941787
>might be too dumb to learn how to actually use an llm.
Correct awnser
Anonymous No.106950538 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
Because it's only useful for coding and those people don't code. Simple as.
Anonymous No.106950568 [Report] >>106951875
>>106944485
>If we had google search quality from 20 years ago llms wouldnt be worth much, theyre only a bit better as a search engine but topic dependent too. Factor in the performance cost and they wont be viable post bubble
While I agree with the idea that llms fix things that shouldn't be broken to begin with. I do disagree with the google example, I have used google since like 2008 and I can tell you the results weren't great either back then it had different set of issues.
Anonymous No.106950569 [Report]
>>106941787
>I use Grok every day at least once it seems
This indicates an advanced stage of mental retardation.
Anonymous No.106950623 [Report]
>>106948294
Cop, brown. You are useless now
Anonymous No.106950653 [Report] >>106950752
>>106940994 (OP)
is it possible they seething it happens during Trump presidency? I mean ... imagine if they crack AGI, will go down as being due to Trump and his economic leadership for investments etc. they'd meltdown so hard
Anonymous No.106950752 [Report]
>>106950653
>imagine if they crack AGI
Imagine if trans women were women. Imagining things doesn't make them happen.
Anonymous No.106950804 [Report]
If they are truly leftists they should be against AI but they are not
Anonymous No.106951030 [Report] >>106951726
>>106948040
>well, no one admits to it, so that means it doesn't happen!
you don't admit that you're a pedophile but i still know that you're a pedophile. i don't see how this is any different
Anonymous No.106951671 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
Because it doesn't have a cute UI experience. Leftists are only capable of interacting with tech so long as it has a proper stylish visual interface like Windows or Apple.

Typing shit to command anything is anathema to them, typing should be saved for texting and grindr in the opinion of the average liberal.
Anonymous No.106951726 [Report]
>>106951030
Take your meds and then tell me who you were quoting there. In the meanwhile, my point stands undisputed.
Anonymous No.106951752 [Report]
>>106948867
It sounds easy, and then you look into it and you realize it would be a nightmare.

For example, everyone in Commiefornia complains about how they don't just purify seawater to solve their shortage issues instead of dealing with all this lack of water bullshit that comes with living right next to a desert, and then you find out that the coastline of Commiefornia is classified as federal land, therefore only the US government could slap a water desalination plant cause the coastline belongs to the US government.
Anonymous No.106951787 [Report]
>>106941032
This is retarded nonsense. Nobody ever thought or even hoped that blue collar workers would be replaced by this technology.
Anonymous No.106951875 [Report] >>106952578
>>106950568
>I have used google since like 2008
Holy oldfag wow!!!
Anonymous No.106952264 [Report] >>106952360
>>106948875
>>106948878
No because salt
Anonymous No.106952360 [Report] >>106952527 >>106952976
>>106952264
Anons are too stupid to realize that if using seawater for cooling was actually feasible then it's what every single industrial plant in the world would be doing.
Anonymous No.106952527 [Report]
>>106952360
the reason why they don't do that is just because it's cheaper to use the infrastructure that is already there than to invest in a brand new saltwater pipeline.
Anonymous No.106952578 [Report] >>106952597
>>106951875
>>I have used google since like 2008
>Holy oldfag wow!!!
I am not, I started using 4chan in 2019, I was a very young when I went online.
Anonymous No.106952597 [Report] >>106952658 >>106952701
>>106952578
that's cute, do you have a job yet?
Anonymous No.106952619 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
>leftist
bro the prez is spamming people with his scat fetish using ai
Anonymous No.106952627 [Report] >>106952786 >>106953798
>>106948821
>it is true
If you're completely scientifically illiterate, at best it turns into steam but if can literally just be returned back to the water source cleaner than it came. But it makes sense the people who believe the ocean will rise 100 feet think datacenters destroy water molecules.
Anonymous No.106952658 [Report] >>106952701
>>106952597
>do you have a job yet?
I don't like were this is going are you an FBI agent?
Anonymous No.106952701 [Report]
>>106952597
>>106952658
And to answer that, I have tried okay.
Anonymous No.106952708 [Report]
>>106941611
>>silicon valley is now firmly right wing and has stopped caring about climate change and DEI
When did Silicon Valley suddenly become capitalist and stopped being anti-capitalist my dear libtarded essaycattle
Anonymous No.106952735 [Report]
>>106943755
your flag has a boob on it lol
Anonymous No.106952759 [Report]
If AGI could be so smart it could launch all the nukes but it could also create countermeasures against AGI from launching all the nukes better than humans can, then as long as everyone has access to AGI then we will all be safe so this is why we can't allow corporations to force alignment into legislation and regulate the industry so harshly that only the established AI businesses can exist because then they will control everything.
Anonymous No.106952777 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
AI is BS because it can't be controlled and would likely not want to work for humanity anyways

this isn't AI and it only enables slop and laziness to proliferate everything
Anonymous No.106952786 [Report] >>106952979
>>106952627
You can drain a water source faster than it naturally replenishes retard
Anonymous No.106952976 [Report] >>106953173
>>106952360
And you're too stupid to realize that people DO build things that use seawater for cooling, as a mater of fact that was the whole scandal with the Fukushima nuclear power plant meltdown a decade ago, it's right next to the sea and they use salt water to cool and do the whole "ackshually, it's a steam engine" part of the nuclear power plant.

The hard part is not the use of sea water, it's the infrasctructure. You're not gonna use sea water to cool a power plant in nebraska. Or any other building that needs cooling. That's fucking pants on head retarded when there's existing infrastructure (Read: the water that we use for drinking and washing at home) instead of building a billion-dollar tier project just to get sea water that far inland and then pumping it out.
Anonymous No.106952979 [Report] >>106953117
>>106952786
No you can't, even a small river is 1000 gallons per minute. Again, scientifically illiterate.
Anonymous No.106953003 [Report] >>106953651
>>106940994 (OP)
Because it IS useless garbage that will never improve or be useful.

We've seen this in action with EVERY. FUCKING. COMPANY. that forces it on their employees. Lower productivity and more time having to troubleshoot the hallucinating lying machines shit.

Worse than Poojet coding in programming circles, in fact.
Anonymous No.106953096 [Report]
>>106947942
Worse, he did it after he was paid TO SHILL a fucing "AI" (if/else statement machine) company's "AI" (if/else statement machine).
Anonymous No.106953117 [Report] >>106953194
>>106952979
Oh my god you are retarded. If you use more water at a faster rate than it replenishes, the river will eventually dry up. This is common sense. For example, the Colorado river has been steadily drying up for decades and shrinking. If too many tech slop companies build giant datacenters in an area with limited water, they could have seriously endanger that area's local water supply.
Anonymous No.106953173 [Report] >>106953593
>>106952976
If seawater was appreciably cheap for cooling then there would be no industrial infrastructure in the interior of the country. Using seawater vs fresh water is just not a big enough deal in a lot of cases to bother with moving a plant.
Anonymous No.106953194 [Report] >>106953271 >>106953373
>>106953117
How many gallons per minute does a datacenter use and how many gallons per minute do they discharge? You do realize that at best this would have a reservoir effect on water supply right? You do know what reservoirs are right? But I'll be generous and assume you're arguing that datacenters store and destroy water in a pocket dimension and you're too stupid to understand that if the datacenter discharges water slower than it intakes that at a certain point it stops intaking water.
Anonymous No.106953214 [Report] >>106953252
>>106940994 (OP)
its not a leftist view necessarily, its that "well akshully" is the easiest route to feeling superior (having a contrarian view that is also morally superior). But the last decade, the left was the safe place to be "contrarian" because everyone praised those ideas (wokism, akshully america is suuuuper problematic?)

>Why arent there people like this on the right?
people that engage in cheap intellectual tricks like this, lack the moral fortitude to withstand threats/attacks. Consider the crime rate for black males. "Akshully, crime is easy to solve, just lock up repeat offenders" is the same kind of mindset, but expressing it means you have to endure all kinds of vitriol. So, people want to feel intellectually superior and "the smartest guy in the room" but not have to deal with sanctioned abuse coming their way.

Leftists got so addicted to the mechanism during Woke that now that the topic has changed to AI and theres a new 3 minutes hate, its just slotted right in.
Anonymous No.106953252 [Report] >>106953265 >>106953362 >>106953366
>>106953214
>its not a leftist view necessarily
It's a left-liberal take.
We are all about freedom till you do something we don't like or want.
Anonymous No.106953265 [Report] >>106953329 >>106953366
>>106953252
>We are all about freedom till you do something we don't like or want
This is basically just the default American mindset regardless of affiliation.
Anonymous No.106953271 [Report] >>106953340
>>106953194
For reference
>A "typical" reservoir can hold anywhere from millions to hundreds of billions of gallons of water
Anonymous No.106953307 [Report] >>106953360
>>106940994 (OP)
Leftist are often luddites. And unfortunately so are many "right-wingers" nowadays as well.
Anonymous No.106953329 [Report]
>>106953265
Yeah but Americans are a bunch of liberals.
compare Canada and the US' independence.
Absolutely libbed up!
Anonymous No.106953340 [Report] >>106953361 >>106953482
>>106953271
>A "typical" reservoir can hold anywhere from millions to hundreds of billions of gallons of water
The range of the volume of a typical reservoir is 10^5 gallons?
Anonymous No.106953360 [Report] >>106953394
>>106953307
>Leftist are often luddites.
They invented sabotage wasn't it? maybe folklore?
>And unfortunately so are many "right-wingers"
Yeah that's because they aren't educated at all, they all live in south mostly why change what works.
Anonymous No.106953361 [Report] >>106953380
>>106953340
The Hover Dam is measured in trillions. So yes, there is a huge range and there's likely a reservoir near you with billions of gallons of water literally sitting there doing nothing for boomer watersports. What's that they say, unused RAM is wasted RAM?
Anonymous No.106953362 [Report] >>106953432 >>106953490
>>106953252
Liberals are right-wing, there are virtually zero leftists in the American political sphere. Hope this helps.
Anonymous No.106953366 [Report]
>>106953252
What >>106953265 said
It's just how you Yanks are. Pretending "My side doesn't do that!" Is just massive cope.
Anonymous No.106953373 [Report]
>>106953194
>you're arguing that datacenters store and destroy water in a pocket dimension
No I'm not. Why don't you stop the strawman arguments? The water cycle is not a magic instant process. It is possible to overuse water. Again, see the Colorado river and several other rivers shrinking.

>How many gallons per minute does a datacenter use
Depends on a lot of factors but it can use millions per day. Of course, a closed loop system and other designs can mitigate this, but that doesn't change the fact that water availability in some regions can be very limited and putting in a bunch of big consumers could stress the supply. And saying "hurr durr reserviors" doesn't change anything.
Anonymous No.106953380 [Report] >>106953387
>>106953361
I'm just saying, a range of 10^5 is like me saying that the typical human is between 3 and 9 feet tall which is true but not really useful information.
Anonymous No.106953387 [Report] >>106953425
>>106953380
It is useful when we have an argument about basketball players and is it possible to find humans that are 7 feet tall to play basketball professionally.
Anonymous No.106953394 [Report] >>106953448
>>106953360
> they all live in south mostly why change what works.
It doesn't work, it never did. They are trying to protect a caricature of the past, never truly understanding how it was.
Anonymous No.106953413 [Report] >>106953524
Leftists don't have a moral framework. They can't separate good or bad action from good or bad consequence. So if something doesn't really violate any virtue and doesn't intuitively feel bad to the general public's conscience, but the leftist doesn't like the outcomes of it (porn artists and green card holders stop making money), they shame and mock and belittle until their mindset is ingrained in the public in the form of fear of ostracization. There's not a single immoral thing about ai or making funny ai pictures or using llm as long as you recognize their limits. Same people arguing that data centers take up too much electricity leave their gaming pcs on all night leaving open overwatch or whatever game trannies play today.
Anonymous No.106953425 [Report] >>106953492
>>106953387
Right but basketball players are not actually the size of a typical human are they.
Anonymous No.106953432 [Report] >>106953490
>>106953362
>Liberals are right-wing
Yes, I know but we are using american logic, the democrats are "leftists" even though they aren't they follow "some ideas" without believing in it.
it's a designation that can only work there.
Anonymous No.106953448 [Report]
>>106953394
>It doesn't work, it never did. They are trying to protect a caricature of the past, never truly understanding how it was.
Do you think I don't understand that?
I do know that it doesn't work but that's the mentality.
Anonymous No.106953480 [Report] >>106953559
Ai is pure leftism(marxism)
Anonymous No.106953482 [Report]
>>106953340
That's basically what q commercial reservoir tank hold. You can dam up a river and make an artificial lake to hold q hundred times more and its not even a large reservoir.
Anonymous No.106953490 [Report]
>>106953362
>>106953432
That's backwards. Liberalism is left wing. America was founded on it so most people and political philosophies here are leftist. The right wing is what doesn't actually exist.
Anonymous No.106953492 [Report] >>106953509 >>106953574
>>106953425
Right and we're not suggesting we should have midgets play basketball but apparently luddite leftists decided to die on that hill. If there are billion gallon reservoirs that can be used to water datacenters, then the water argument is retarded to say "AI is ebil because it uses water".
Anonymous No.106953509 [Report]
>>106953492
cool I'm glad droughts no longer exist since there are billion gallon reservoirs than can be used
Anonymous No.106953524 [Report] >>106953606
>>106953413
> They can't separate good or bad action from good or bad consequence.
Evaluating the consequences is how you gauge how good or bad an action is.

> the leftist doesn't like the outcomes of it (porn artists and green card holders stop making money)
> There's not a single immoral thing about ai or making funny ai pictures or using llm as long as you recognize their limits.
You just contradicted yourself.

> Same people arguing that data centers take up too much electricity leave their gaming pcs on all night leaving open overwatch or whatever game trannies play today.
You are glossing over the magnitude differences between the two actions. Leaving your PC in your room is arguably neutral because the heat it generates reduces the amount of heat required from the central heating unit.
Anonymous No.106953528 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)

tribalism
they all think the same so if you think different you're a enemy thus they can never admit to each other that they find parts of AI they like
you dont believe me? go into any "reddit" discord and talk about something AI related
Anonymous No.106953534 [Report] >>106953549
>>106940994 (OP)
>leftist
this has nothing to do with political ideologist u dumba$$
Anonymous No.106953549 [Report]
>>106953534
you can curse here anon i won't tell on you
Anonymous No.106953559 [Report] >>106953625
>>106953480
>Ai is pure leftism(marxism)
>Making people homeless, starve and live like shit.
>Uprice topples cooperate and the government.
Sounds leftist to me.
Anonymous No.106953574 [Report]
>>106953492
>If there are billion gallon reservoirs that can be used to water datacenters, then the water argument is retarded to say "AI is ebil because it uses water".
The problem is that data centres aren't choosing one of the millions of existing reservoirs in an ecologically conscious way; they're just using whatever is cheapest. This often has a huge negative impact on the people and the ecosystem in these areas.
Anonymous No.106953593 [Report]
>>106953173
If that was the only reason you would be correct, but there's many more factors at work. For an example of something no one thinks about will crop up, NYMBY is an issue, people with seafront property do not want their seaside view impeded by a power plant, denying them access to the beach, and lowering their property values. Who could've thought about that?
Anonymous No.106953606 [Report] >>106953808
>>106953524
>Evaluating the consequences is how you gauge how good or bad an action is.
Ought from is?
>You just contradicted yourself.
No because I don't think consequences ALONE determine the morality of something and even if I did, those are good consequences.
>because the heat it generates reduces the amount of heat required from the central heating unit.
Or you live in florida and now your cooler has to work harder.
Anonymous No.106953625 [Report] >>106953641
>>106953559
It's accelerationist leftism. The idea is to create the most overt and absurd capitalist dystopia possible, so that people have no choice but to fight for their rights instead of conforming and dooming future generations to further oppression.
Anonymous No.106953641 [Report] >>106953684
>>106953625
What rights
Anonymous No.106953651 [Report]
>>106953003
Case in fucking point: >>106950900
Anonymous No.106953684 [Report] >>106953708
>>106953641
>What rights
The ones that are reserved.
Anonymous No.106953708 [Report] >>106953778 >>106953851
>>106953684
Isn't copyright an anti-capitalist restriction placed on the market by governments?
Anonymous No.106953778 [Report]
>>106953708
>Isn't copyright an anti-capitalist restriction placed on the market by governments?
Nope, under communism there is no such thing as the government owns the right not the private company. So you won't have companies like historically disney and nintendo go after you as they wouldn't own it.
Anonymous No.106953798 [Report] >>106954030
>>106952627
>I'm scientifically illiterate
Obviously, but that's still no excuse. Imagine being so brown you think the vapor just magically concentrates above the water source it was drained from.
Anonymous No.106953808 [Report] >>106953960 >>106953989
>>106953606
> Ought from is?
No, I am not claiming that the existence of consequences is the reason why something is good or bad. 'Pleasure is good, suffering is bad' is a moral axiom that we arbitrarily choose (the reason why is irrelevant to the ethical discussion), and this provides us with a basis on which to judge actions.

> I don't think consequences ALONE determine the morality of something
What else there is? Can you justify it?

> those are good consequences.
Begging the question. Why do you believe it is a good thing for porn artists and green card holders to lose their livelihoods?

> Or you live in florida and now your cooler has to work harder.
Yes, it's wrong to keep your PC on or use your PC for leisure if you live in a hot area; not nearly as bad as running a data center, though.
Anonymous No.106953837 [Report]
google results vastly improve if you add "before:2022" to your search. that tells me enough about ai
Anonymous No.106953851 [Report] >>106953960
>>106953708
That contradiction only exists if you believe the propaganda conflating free market economies with capitalism. "Capitalism", as defined by Marx, is a way in which free market economies can fail, as corporations exert control over the governments, making it not free anymore.
Anonymous No.106953868 [Report]
>>106942776
this is precisely the thing.
not only is it incapable of doing hardcore logic but its also using 100000x more energy to do 2+2 than a calculator would do and the calculator would be right 100% of the times meanwhile it would be 99% correct or something.

it makes no sense economically to waste so many resources to give answers on such simple things.

energy input -> energy output total imbalance.

but they know its more important to sell a good story because thats what people crave a story about "artificial intelligence", a story of "robot takeover", "massive data-centers"

because it sounds real, people attribute intelligence to it, just like any animal would do. we recognize something which sounds intelligent and are impressed by it without knowing that it is designed to sound intelligent so this adds even more to the mania.
the dust will settle though. it always does. there are too many limitations for this thing to keep surprising everyone ad-infinitum.
its not actual intelligence or it would have re-invented itself many times over already. it would already have taken control
Anonymous No.106953960 [Report] >>106954100 >>106954178
>>106953808
I don't accept your arbitrary axioms as justification, you don't accept my god as one. That's where this conversation will meet a dead end regardless because you will not accept a transcendental argument as evidence.
>>106953851
Capitalism according to marx is a system where essentially an employer collects the surplus of an employee's labor value as profit. In a free market system why would there ever be an employer to organize business to produce goods to be traded if all value generated by the trade of those goods had to be paid to workers? There is no communist free market.
Anonymous No.106953983 [Report]
>>106949907
>lefty gets btfo
>n-no u
Every time.
Anonymous No.106953989 [Report] >>106954178
>>106953808
>'Pleasure is good, suffering is bad' is a moral axiom
Not him but this is obviously a pretty dumb axiom for morality.
Anonymous No.106954030 [Report]
>>106953798
Actually it does when it's inside a fucking structure.
Anonymous No.106954100 [Report] >>106954261
>>106953960
> In a free market system why would there ever be an employer to organize business to produce goods to be traded if all value generated by the trade of those goods had to be paid to workers? There is no communist free market.
You seem to be conflating socialism with communism.

In a socialist free market, there is no hierarchical division between 'employers' and 'employees'; there is no 'owner' of the business. If the business is large enough to have a dedicated manager, they are just a worker like any other, and decisions regarding staff are decided democratically within the workers rather than managed in an authoritarian manner.

In a communist society, there would be no businesses as everything would be automated.
Anonymous No.106954178 [Report] >>106954261 >>106954587
>>106953960
> you don't accept my god as one
Of course not. The only people who unironically argue for morality based on religion are either grifters or profoundly uneducated/stupid people.

>>106953989
Moral axioms are inherently irrational, but at least this one don't lead to self-contradiction (unlike deontological axioms).
Anonymous No.106954192 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
Adam is a dumb faggot, and so are you.
Anonymous No.106954261 [Report] >>106954464
>>106954100
Why would people come together to start a business and produce something and trade it on any large scale without an outside or top down enforcer? Why do you think workers would all agree that they deserve an equal say in the operation of the business, do people all provide equal value? Will they democratically elect that some get paid less and some get paid more or would some say "I deserve an equal amount regardless."
>>106954178
Your axiom's entailment is that all life should be in vats being drip fed soma by machines and that would be the highest moral good.
Anonymous No.106954423 [Report]
>>106941713
So how many people have played your AI slop game? As if the indie game scene wasn't already absolutely saturated with low-effort shovelware crap that nobody wants to play. If Toby Fox could make Undertale by himself then indie devs have no excuse
Anonymous No.106954464 [Report] >>106954502
>>106954261
> Why would people come together to start a business and produce something and trade it on any large scale without an outside or top down enforcer?
Why would they want an outside enforcer for that? If you can make something, you make it and sell it to earn a living. If you need more people to cooperate in making or selling the product, you team up with others.

> Why do you think workers would all agree that they deserve an equal say in the operation of the business?
It's is analogous to how democratic republics work in contrast to absolutist monarchies. All workers vote equally on who is in charge of making managerial decisions, while important decisions, such as managing staff, are left to direct democratic vote.

> do people all provide equal value?
What do you mean by 'value', exactly? Why would it matter in the context of our discussion?

> Will they democratically elect that some get paid less and some get paid more or would some say "I deserve an equal amount regardless."
This is analogous to a citizen claiming the right to eat food from other people's fridges, despite most people claiming that the food belongs to the fridge's owner. The people in question would either need to reach an agreement or split up.

> Your axiom's entailment is that all life should be in vats being drip fed soma by machines and that would be the highest moral good.
Yes, so do you have any valid argument against that?
Anonymous No.106954482 [Report]
>>106941032
If everyone in the world had infinite money and nobody "had" to do anything, then nobody would ever sweep floors, clean toilets, collect garbage, or do pretty much any manual labor job that exists. That stuff just isn't enjoyable. It's grueling. People only do it out of necessity.
People would still do creative stuff, though, because it's fun.
Anonymous No.106954502 [Report] >>106954563
>>106954464
>Yes, so do you have any valid argument against that?
Don't need to argue against someone arguing in bad faith. You don't believe your own assertion.
Anonymous No.106954563 [Report] >>106954670 >>106954712
>>106954502
Not only are you factually wrong about what my thoughts are, but even if you were right, you would still be committing a psychogenetic fallacy.

Try again: on what basis do you believe that being submerged in a pleasure machine is an absurd moral goal?
Anonymous No.106954587 [Report] >>106954616
>>106954178
>Moral axioms are inherently irrational
Not sure if I accept that, but that doesn't excuse what you came up with. It doesn't make sense on a fundamental level since it assigns a moral value to experiencing an emotion. Morality is normally about actions and intents. Not what side effect emotion you experience.
Anonymous No.106954616 [Report] >>106954944
>>106954587
>Morality is normally about actions and intents
You are begging the question. How do actions and intents connect to moral claims?
Anonymous No.106954670 [Report] >>106954824
>>106954563
Because there is no logical justification for the assertion that pleasure is a moral good.

But you asserted this axiom as a justification for a consequentialist view that you use to justify the claim that the use of AI is immoral. Now how exactly are we going to have machines facilitating our existence in pleasure pods and minimizing our exposure to experience outside of pure pleasure without AI? Reproduction to make sure that there are more meat sacks to experience more pleasure, resource acquisition for upkeep, I mean al of these very complex and dynamic tasks to be done by non-living entities to make sure they're not suffering. This supreme moral good is DEPENDENT on AI is it not? So shouldn't you be in favor of AI?
Anonymous No.106954712 [Report] >>106954824
>>106954563
nta but it's not natural for one, thus you do not know how it works long term. what it does to your brain.
plus we're good at detecting contrast more than absolutes. we get used to shit. see women today don't fantasize about being fucked by their neighbor or something, they want minotaur cock in their ass while giving a blowjob to cthulhu. because of all the porn exposure.
Anonymous No.106954824 [Report] >>106954873 >>106954895
>>106954670
> Because there is no logical justification for the assertion that pleasure is a moral good.
Yes, if there was a logical justification, it wouldn't be an axiom.

> But you asserted this axiom as a justification for a consequentialist view that you use to justify the claim that the use of AI is immoral.
Using AI isn't inherently immoral; it's the specific way it's being used that's the problem. It's like how feeding your children isn't wrong, but killing your neighbour to feed them is. Overall, developing AI is not only not bad, it's a moral obligation for precisely the reasons you point out.

>>106954712
You are disregarding the hypothetical situation that was mentioned. What you are doing is like writing a Monkey's Paw story in which the protagonist wishes that they didn't need to sleep, and the way the wish backfires is by.... making sleep necessary.
Anonymous No.106954856 [Report] >>106954872
>>106941844
>>106941844
>No one makes mediocre art for a living anon.
They did. The thing is, the art in question here, the art people were getting paid a fairly comfortable living wage to make, which has suddenly stopped getting commissioned with the advent if Diffusion AI, is the most vile and degenerate furry porn you can possibly imagine, and a lot of stuff you can't imagine (but a Diffusion model trained on certain booru tags can)

Now that your perverts whose tastes are so far outside the mainstream that you can't accurately describe them without sounding like a bad parody are generating their own pornography for free, the artists they used to commission (who they had to pay top dollar for, because their tastes are so specific and so vile) are out of a job and don't even have a portfolio to show for it, because you can't show anyone this kind of shit. A
Besides, nobody else is willing to pay anywhere near what they were getting paid for it. And the artists are really mad about it which is why they're getting everyone even tangentially associated with them riled up about AI.

I wish I was joking, but I'm not.
Anonymous No.106954872 [Report]
>>106954856
People keep saying this but all the popular, successful furry artists I've seen are still doing fine and making big bucks through their patreons/commissions.
Do you have any examples of specific artists who have lost their livelihoods because of AI?
Anonymous No.106954873 [Report] >>106954947
>>106954824
>You are disregarding the hypothetical situation that was mentioned.
retarded hypothetical is irrelevant. that's mental masturbation. what tf does it matter for reality? it's nonsense if you do not consider the limitations and functions of the brain. go on /x/ and write a fanfic faggot, stop wasting my time with your gorilla retarded hypothetical that does not apply to reality
Anonymous No.106954895 [Report]
>>106954824
I don't accept your axiom and you haven't demonstrated how the way it is being used right now is immoral as an entailment from it anyway. How AI is being used right now and any suffering caused by it may be a necessary stepping stone toward the maximal reduction of suffering in the future. Because you can't make moral claims outside of consequence you can't claim that a little suffering now for much less later is bad. Even if you can conceptualize a scenario where the current path does not lead to the optimal scenario, you can not know or claim that it will not or that there is a different path that will get us there quicker, and so you still can't justify a claim that it is wrong.
Anonymous No.106954944 [Report] >>106955028
>>106954616
That's not begging the question. That's how the term is defined... Morality is broadly about what you do and if it is right or wrong. Something being pleasurable or not has nothing to do with that. If you disagree that general premise, then I have no idea what you mean by morality.
Anonymous No.106954947 [Report] >>106955021
>>106954873
An inability to grasp hypotheticals and get to the core of the matter being discussed is a sign of profound intellectual deficiency. Ultimately, you aren't even disagreeing with my points; you're just suggesting that my goals might be difficult to achieve.

Also, there are no physical laws that dictate how our brains must react to physical stimuli. In principle, nothing modifies our brains through genetic engineering or any other form of intervention, so pleasure responses do not 'wear off'.
Anonymous No.106954963 [Report] >>106955103 >>106955122
Based leftist that covers AI in a sane way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRq0pESKJgg
Anonymous No.106955021 [Report] >>106955048
>>106954947
the problem is I'm not interested in fiction, it's irrelevant for the discussion. your points do not apply as they are not rooted in reality, but in some hypothetical scenario
>there are no physical laws that dictate how our brains must react to physical stimuli
that's pretty much well studied by now you low iq chimp
>having too much dopamine can lead to reduced pleasure and poor impulse control, as it may create a state where the brain's reward system becomes less responsive. This can result in feelings of euphoria followed by emotional lows, making it harder to experience pleasure from everyday activities.
I hate you retards so fucking much it's unreal. mental masturbators which constantly arrive at the most retarded of conclusions because they're working with the wrong assumptions. rationalists as well. the most imbecilic ideas and conclusions. fuck your neurons retard, you waste of pixels
Anonymous No.106955028 [Report] >>106955068
>>106954944
> Morality is broadly about what you do and if it is right or wrong.
No, you are inadvertently skipping many steps on the way to arrive to your views. Some moral systems argue that certain things are inherently wrong, even if they are not connected to any action. For example, in certain moral frameworks, an animal, plant or object can be seen as evil, even if it does nothing.

The matter under discussion is how you determine whether something is right or wrong. What you have said so far doesn't amount to anything more than 'it's just the way it is'.
Anonymous No.106955048 [Report] >>106955086 >>106955131
>>106955021
>having too much dopamine can lead to reduced pleasure and poor impulse control, as it may create a state where the brain's reward system becomes less responsive. This can result in feelings of euphoria followed by emotional lows, making it harder to experience pleasure from everyday activities.
Then, modify the brain so it doesn't act that way anymore. You are basically making essentially the same mistake people made when they claimed that airplanes could never exist, because no bird has weighted over a hundred pounds.
Anonymous No.106955068 [Report]
>>106955028
I used the words "normally" and "broadly" for a reason.... Nobody said you couldn't cook up something stupid.

>The matter under discussion is how you determine whether something is right or wrong.
I made no specific assertion on that. All I said is that assigning "pleasurable = morally good" is dumb and nonsensical. Similar to how saying that some plant merely existing is inherently evil is also a pretty dumb moral claim.
Anonymous No.106955086 [Report] >>106955146
>>106955048
>modify the brain
why tho? do you even understand what you are? what we all are? we are all the same fucking thing, the same person. the whole point of existence is diversity/variety. why would you make more of the same thing experiencing the same thing? for what purpose? same brain cloned many times means the same thing experiencing the same thing. it's redundant. makes no sense. what is the point of engineering something that experiences only pleasure? once you modify someone's brain they're not really them anymore, but another version of them. modify it too much and you literally make something from scratch, so you can make it feel pleasure. it's the equivalent of randomly giving handjobs on the street, or to animals, just because you know they'll like it.
Anonymous No.106955087 [Report] >>106955104
>>106940994 (OP)
AI is to wokies what the printing press was to the Catholic Church. It bypasses their institutions and breaks their power.
Anonymous No.106955103 [Report]
>>106954963
>generative ai
it should be properly called "token based data recombinator"
its a recycler.
Anonymous No.106955104 [Report] >>106955266
>>106955087
If you believe that the institutions are in the hands of "wokies", you are wholly delusional.
Anonymous No.106955122 [Report]
>>106954963
also, the guy makes a wedge between left and right as if you have to be a leftist or from the right to have an opinion on AI, either black or white.
stupid leftists always putting everything in categories
Anonymous No.106955131 [Report] >>106955148 >>106955196
>>106955048
>Then, modify the brain so it doesn't act that way anymore
Pleasure is an extreme. I don't feel pleasure just existing normally, in everyday life. I have moments of pleasure. It's an extreme and serves a purpose. One of them is creating memories. Feeling pain or pleasure with no memories of it makes for no technical use, which is the basis of why they exist for us, we feel them for a purpose.
Anonymous No.106955146 [Report] >>106955165 >>106955210
>>106955086
> it's redundant. makes no sense.
Why do you believe so?

> what is the point of engineering something that experiences only pleasure?
Pleasure and pain are the reasons why we care about things in the first place. The burden of proof in on you to claim there is something more than that.

> once you modify someone's brain they're not really them anymore, but another version of them
So? By your standard, then we should avoid eating food as well, as their molecules eventually replace our molecules.

>it's the equivalent of randomly giving handjobs on the street, or to animals, just because you know they'll like it.
Once you address the problem of STDs, that is indeed a quite nice thing to do (as long as all parties are consenting).
Anonymous No.106955148 [Report] >>106955165 >>106955196
>>106955131 me
The pleasure/pain extremes are motivators. The ultimate purpose is to exist, not to feel pleasure or pain. Pleasure and pain are there to guarantee we exist for as long as possible. they are not the goal, they are tools used for achieving the ultimate goal, that of keeping existing.
Anonymous No.106955165 [Report] >>106955196
>>106955146
>Pleasure and pain are the reasons why we care about things in the first place.
Yes, see >>106955148 they are tools used for a clear greater purpose, that of making sure we keep existing. They are not the fucking goal
Anonymous No.106955196 [Report] >>106955239
>>106955131
>>106955148
>>106955165
Now, you are committing naturalistic fallacies (inferring 'ought' from 'is'). We have evolved genetically and culturally in a way that maximises our survival; it's a leap of logic to claim that this implies we should maximise our survivability.
Anonymous No.106955210 [Report] >>106955517
>>106955146
>So? By your standard, then we should avoid eating food as well, as their molecules eventually replace our molecules.
Well no, it's just...nonsense. The whole point of diversity is to bruteforce the most adapted form for the environment. It's the same thing in different clothes, some of the clothes help more than others, in current environment.
The whole thing is nonsensical, to what end are you modifying other people's brains? To what? That's what I'm not getting. If you extend your logic you will make them all the same thing, tweak them to some ideal form until all of them are fully identical. A lot of identical things experiencing identical things. That's the most diametrically opposed possible thing to what life is. Plus it's nonsense. Why would you clone yourself in trillions of units all experiencing identical things? There's no sense in it, it doesn't mean anything, it's just some weird mental derangement, some kind of weird corruption
Anonymous No.106955239 [Report] >>106955268 >>106955389
>>106955196
>We have evolved genetically and culturally in a way that maximises our survival; it's a leap of logic to claim that this implies we should maximise our survivability.
It's the most logical conclusion. Everything is geared towards us continuing to exist for as much as possible in current environment. Life did this since the first molecule managed to copy itself. That process never stopped since, and it culminated with us.
That much is pretty clear, the whole purpose of us is to keep existing, not to experience pleasure for fucks sake. Pleasure and pain are motivators that keep us existing. The purpose is to exist not to constantly experience pleasure
Anonymous No.106955266 [Report] >>106955389
>>106955104
Trump might be in the White House but you can't change culture by executive order. Universities, media, the NGO complex, a good chunk of the legal system... many fields of white-collar work ideologically believe in the whole privilege/equity/reparations schtick. You're not going to win them over. You can, however, make them obsolete.

This is why so many "leftists" (woke is a far more accurate label) oppose AI. It undermines their power.
Anonymous No.106955268 [Report]
>>106955239
As in, you can exist without experiencing pleasure or pain, but you cannot experience pleasure or pain without existing. The priorities are pretty fucking clear.
What the actual fuck
Anonymous No.106955271 [Report]
>>106948040
I hear McDonalds is hiring rn, might wanna check it anon.
Anonymous No.106955342 [Report]
>>106940994 (OP)
Because leftists WANT to destroy western countries, all decisions are downstream from this idea.

Leftists argued that radioactive energy was bad and it crippled nuclear energy in the west.
Leftists argued that manufacturing and resource extraction was bad.

The end goal is to make the west as anti competitive as possible to the rest of the world. They want to uplift the third world by cutting off our knees. Don't listen to leftists, they want to release criminals, ruin children's education, cripple industry and allow other nations to beat us down.
Anonymous No.106955389 [Report] >>106955432 >>106955569
>>106955239
>Everything is geared towards us continuing to exist for as much as possible in current environment.
In fact, everything is geared towards our extinction. Life is just a quasi-stable, chaotic system of electrochemical reactions that will inevitably perish as the universe moves towards 'heat death'.

> That process never stopped since, and it culminated with us.
It didn't 'culminate with us'; we aren't even the most 'successful' leaf on the evolutionary tree in terms of prosperity and the survival of our lineage.

> Pleasure and pain are motivators that keep us existing.
Exactly, our moral values are a consequence of the feelings these motivators cause.

>>106955266
It is large corporations, not 'wokies', that control universities, the media, the government and most NGOs. You have swallowed right-wing populist propaganda wholesale, causing you to believe and act against your own interests.

> This is why so many "leftists" (woke is a far more accurate label) oppose AI. It undermines their power.
The ones in power are in favor of AI, overall. The anti-AI bandwagon is just a relatively small Internet phenomenon, driven mostly by artists (most of which are in very precarious positions, with barely any power at all). You are completely disconnected from reality.
Anonymous No.106955432 [Report] >>106955456
>>106955389
Large corporations are woke. There's no contradiction with that aspect of what he said.
Anonymous No.106955456 [Report] >>106955529 >>106955654
>>106955432
Let me guess, you believe that liberals are "leftist wokes"? You are criticizing people you have no idea about.
Anonymous No.106955517 [Report]
>>106955210
nta, but it seems like you are recoiling against your own fetishes.
Anonymous No.106955529 [Report] >>106955624
>>106955456
I don't know what you mean by that. Big corporations promote and push woke ideology. It directly benefits them since people that adopt woke almost always care about those mostly meaningless social platitudes instead focusing on actual issues that would threaten big corp power.
Anonymous No.106955569 [Report] >>106955661
>>106955389
Corporations are abstractions, they don't exist. People exists. Groups of people hold ideological positions. A large chunk of the knowledge workers who graduated university and run many institutions, including corporations, have a worldview best described as woke.

Denial of this fact usually comes from woke believers themselves. If you can name it, you can critique it, you can point out the systemic pattern. These types are easily spotted as they put the word woke in quotes, "woke", since they need to deny its legitimacy.
Anonymous No.106955624 [Report] >>106955688
>>106955529
Big corporations don’t advocate 'woke' points of view because they believe in them; they follow consumer demand and minimise risk. If 'woke' messaging is profitable, they use it; if it stops being profitable, they drop it.

Social issues (e.g. diversity, gender equality and racial equity) and economic issues (e.g. labour rights, wages, monopoly power and tax evasion) aren’t mutually exclusive. 'Wokies' fight on both fronts. The real reason there is so little economic activism is systemic disempowerment caused by anti-union propaganda, economic precarity, corporate lobbying and disinformation campaigns such as the right-wing populism you have swallowed. Ironically, labelling social movements 'corporate distractions' is a divide-and-conquer tactic in itself: it pits working-class people against each other along cultural lines instead of economic ones.
Anonymous No.106955654 [Report] >>106955689
>>106955456
Wokeism is its own belief system:

>there are categories e.g. race
>there are privileged and oppressed groups within these categories, e.g. white is privileged and black is oppressed
>we should actively discriminate against groups deemed privileged, in favour of groups deemed oppressed
>all institutions and culture should partake in this discrimination
>the existence of privilege is the metanarrative everything else is built around; if data contradicts the narrative, the data is wrong, or the institution is biased and in need of educating until it produces data in line with the metanarrative, or the data must be interpreted such that it fits the metanarrative, e.g. white flight vs gentrification, beauty standards vs cultural appropriation

Just look at Larry Fink - there's no contradiction between wokeism and corporations or capitalism.
Anonymous No.106955661 [Report] >>106955689 >>106955721
>>106955569
If you believe that the psychopaths that are at the head of the largest corporations are "woke", you have lost the plot.
Anonymous No.106955688 [Report] >>106955702 >>106955804
>>106955624
I don't know why people still think big corporations are always some sort of heartless machine that only cares about money or something. They're run by people with agendas so of course they will influence and push that onto society. Several corporations funded and supported causes we can classify as woke. It doesn't matter if technically only half the shareholder board only really believes in the bullshit they spew. I would suspect that a large amount of top religious leaders don't actually believe their shit either. It's irrelevant. What matters is the end result.

>'Wokies' fight on both fronts.
no they don't. This is just delusional. And it's not just the woke side other. The anti-woke side also falls for the trap. Both sides hyper focus on these mostly meaningless issues (e.g. gender equality actually exists in the US but it's against males who are routinely mutilated at birth; nobody talks about this of course) instead of anything economical or substantial that would hurt corporations (like big corps abusing visa systems to avoid hiring native citizens and instead effectively employing quasi-slave labor).
Anonymous No.106955689 [Report] >>106955753 >>106955922
>>106955654
> Larry Fink
> "woke"
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. See:
>>106955661
Anonymous No.106955702 [Report]
>>106955688
>e.g. gender equality
meant gender inequality
Anonymous No.106955721 [Report] >>106955883
>>106955661
As I mentioned in my previous post: Larry Fink. CEO of BlackRock, woke, not shy about it, evangelical about spreading wokeism, unafraid of using BlackRock's trillions in AUM to institutionalise it.
Anonymous No.106955753 [Report]
>>106955689
Notice you have no argument.

The definition of wokeism has been spelled out to you. If you've been living under a rock for decades and missed how this ideology rose to prominence in many institutions, an example has been provided at the very top of the corporate capitalist world. You have no counter-argument, because you're being told basic truths evident to anyone with eyes and a brain. All you can fall back on is sheer denial.
Anonymous No.106955775 [Report]
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2021/11/the-cia-and-the-new-dialect-of-power/

The one anon itt who's somehow never heard of wokeism might find this interesting.
Anonymous No.106955804 [Report] >>106955826 >>106955866 >>106955999 >>106956247
>>106955688
>I don't know why people still think big corporations are always some sort of heartless machine that only cares about money or something. They're run by people with agendas so of course they will influence and push that onto society.
Yes, and the vast majority of the time, if you are obscenely wealthy, your agenda is "become wealthier, even at the expense of society overall"

> I don't know why people still think big corporations are always some sort of heartless machine that only cares about money or something. They're run by people with agendas so of course they will influence and push that onto society.
Yes, that's what's known as 'green' or 'pink' capitalism. It's not an earnest attempt to address these issues; it's just a way to signal virtue in an attempt to earn more profit. Often, this is done in ways that surreptitiously undermine the very goals they claim to be trying to achieve.

> What matters is the end result.
Yes, and the end result is the undermining of 'woke' goals.

> US but it's against males who are routinely mutilated at birth; nobody talks about this of course.
They do talk about, you just haven't heard of it in your propaganda channels.

> (like big corps abusing visa systems to avoid hiring native citizens and instead effectively employing quasi-slave labor).
Woke people care about that too. The problem is that the country has embraced so many fascist talking points that immigrants are seen as a 'menace' (rather than the victims they are), leaving little room for discussion about the abuse they receive.
Anonymous No.106955826 [Report]
>>106955804 (me)
* leaving little room for discussion about the abuse they receive from their employers. Woke people, for the most part, try to address the issue by giving immigrants the same worker rights as native citizens.
Anonymous No.106955866 [Report]
>>106955804
>my entire worldview was propagandised to me by corporations... but I'm totally an independent free thinker
>I just so happened to independently arrive at the values they spoonfed me
Anonymous No.106955883 [Report] >>106955933
>>106955721
His proposed policies were meant to reduce systemic risks the businesses would face (climate change, regulatory backlash, reputational damage), not to achieve leftist goals. He clearly didn't care about the goals, as he walked back as soon as he received backslash from his clients. Again, you are primed to see "wokeism" when in reality there is none.
Anonymous No.106955917 [Report] >>106955957
>>106940994 (OP)
Their tendency to be pro-worker and against fucking over average people in order to benefit billionaires, I'm guessing
Anonymous No.106955922 [Report]
>>106955689
You're probably talking to a schizo. Ask anon about his opinions regarding lolis
Anonymous No.106955933 [Report] >>106955989
>>106955883
He's not leftist, he's woke. Wokeism isn't "left" or "liberal", it's an ideology of its own, which has helpfully been spelled out to you on this very thread.

You're so deep in the trash can you can't see the ideology. "Reduce systemic risks" is political. Do you think Thatcher and Lenin would have the same ideas about what systemic risks exist and how to combat them? Of course not. When you think you can "reduce systemic risks" by limiting the number of white people in C suites, you are woke.
Anonymous No.106955957 [Report]
>>106955917
So why aren't they pro AI?
Anonymous No.106955978 [Report]
>>106948800
1 "water thirsty data center" = 1 medium sized corn field
Anonymous No.106955989 [Report] >>106956012 >>106956077 >>106956141
>>106955933
> which has helpfully been spelled out to you on this very thread.
What you spelled out was just a disingenuous and oversimplified description of critical race theory that was stripped of any nuance. Critical race theory is only a small part of what 'wokeism' is about, and 'wokeism' is just a small part of leftism. So what's your point?

> "Reduce systemic risks" is political.
Not necessarily. Even if you don't care about people, you can't profit from exploiting them if they die from all the harm you have caused.

> When you think you can "reduce systemic risks" by limiting the number of white people in C suites
And that has absolutely nothing to do with what Larry Fink said.
Anonymous No.106955999 [Report] >>106956227
>>106955804
>Yes, and the vast majority of the time, if you are obscenely wealthy, your agenda is "become wealthier, even at the expense of society overall"
Seems like a pretty baseless assertion to me. Did you take a poll? I'm not a fan of Bill Gates but he's a pretty obvious example of a wealthy person that has an agenda beyond making money. Unless you think all of the social causes he contributes to are some elaborate LARP or something.

>Yes, that's what's known as 'green' or 'pink' capitalism.
>Yes, and the end result is the undermining of 'woke' goals.
I grant that it's a nebulous term, but whatever you are using to mean woke here is vastly differently than what the vast majority of what woke believers actually advocate. When big corps push for these giant DEI programs and similar things and these large groups of people cheer and celebrate when this happens. What else am I supposed to conclude?

>They do talk about, you just haven't heard of it in your propaganda channels.
It's an extremely fringe issue that gets no mainstream traction. Don't be silly. I was obviously contrasting that with a frivolous "issue" like the gender pay gap which is in popular culture as an example of gender inequality but as we know doesn't actually exist.

>Woke people care about that too.
No, they largely don't. Your narrow group of people that you count as woke (which seems to be vastly different than what most people consider woke) is not representative of the broader populace of people that believe in the ideology. They largely don't care about corporations undermining the value of labor.
Anonymous No.106956012 [Report] >>106956227
>>106955989
>Critical race theory is only a small part of what 'wokeism' is about, and 'wokeism' is just a small part of leftism. So what's your point?

I've already, and repeatedly, spelled out that wokeism is separate from leftism. If you're defining it differently there's no point in you arguing with me, since you're using the word to refer to a different concept.
Anonymous No.106956077 [Report] >>106956227
>>106955989
I will repeat myself: you are so deep in the trash can you can't see the ideology.

>Not necessarily. Even if you don't care about people, you can't profit from exploiting them if they die from all the harm you have caused.

Do you lack theory of mind? Do you not realise other people have their own ideas which may disagree with yours? A Thatcherite would sincerely believe government overreach is the problem and the market is the solution. A Leninist would sincerely believe capitalism is the problem and communism is the solution. If the Leninist thought "well okay, obviously we less government and more private markets to avoid mass starvation" they wouldn't be a Leninist.

Anyone who looks at ESG's policies on diversity and thinks "ah yes, they've accurately described the problem and proposed good solutions"... is woke. It's not some objective universal truth everyone agrees on. It's political.
Anonymous No.106956141 [Report]
>>106955989
>wokie starts defending BlackRock's CEO

How quickly the mask falls
Anonymous No.106956227 [Report] >>106956289 >>106956319
>>106955999
> Did you take a poll? I'm not a fan of Bill Gates but he's a pretty obvious example of a wealthy person that has an agenda beyond making money.
Yes, and Bill Gates is a retired billionaire with more money than he could possibly spend in the time he has left. He's no longer at the head of Microsoft, but when he was, he was as psychopathic as any other CEO of a large corporation.

> When big corps push for these giant DEI programs and similar things and these large groups of people cheer and celebrate when this happens. What else am I supposed to conclude?
That they are virtual signaling in hopes of getting positive PR, with the end goal of getting more money.

> It's an extremely fringe issue that gets no mainstream traction.
"Mainstream traction": what large corporations want you to care about, for their own profit.

> gender inequality but as we know doesn't actually exist.
It does exist. The idea that it doesn't exist is based on seeing it and saying, 'Nu-uh, it doesn't count because of [systemic inequality factors, very problem that is being criticized]'.

> They largely don't care about corporations undermining the value of labor.
The real problem with immigration isn’t that the market value of labor drops (it doesn’t, because market dynamics don’t function that way in this context; just as in education and health, the inequality of power between the consumer and the provider makes it so it's very far from the "free market" ideal). The issue is that immigrants are systematically exploited due to their lack of the rights citizens have. The fascist rhetoric which demonizes them is just the flamethrower added on top.

>>106956012
Yes, I am using the word to refer to the concept as conceptualized by leftists, not the boogeyman your propaganda has put in your head.

>>106956077
Once again, he showed that he did not care about leftist ideals; he only cared about his bottom line, as demonstrated by how he changed his position when his client complained.
Anonymous No.106956230 [Report]
>>106949602
A shitty Bash script could replace those faggots.
Anonymous No.106956247 [Report] >>106956324
>>106955804
So institutional wokeism is virtue signalling. How, exactly, did wokeism gain so much power all these institutions need to pay lip service to it? What ungodly outside force has kowtowed Disney and BlackRock and the CIA and the university system and...?

By definition institutions are not beholden to some greater force, because that force would itself be an institution. If an ideology is dominant, some individual dissenters might be forced into line; but overall it's a simple truism that when enough of your institutions are evangelising an ideology, that is their ideology. It's not all some gigantic 5D chess conspiracy theory where the only *real* believers are random internet commenters, with institutions being staffed by idk liberals or conservatives who are somehow all coerced into spreading an ideology none of them believe in.
Anonymous No.106956289 [Report] >>106956329
>>106956227
>I am using the word to refer to the concept as conceptualized by leftists

There are plenty of leftist forums on reddit where you'll be right at home. That's not a flippant suggestion. If you refuse to use words other than as they're defined by leftists, clearly you're wasting your time "arguing" (or talking at cross purposes) with people not using those definitions.

>Once again, he showed that he did not care about leftist ideals

You realise how ridiculous this is? You think Fink isn't a leftist; you are "arguing" with someone who also thinks Fink isn't a leftist; because you're extrapolating from your "leftist conception" of the definition of a word, rather than arguing against a position anyone actually holds. You're wasting your time here.
Anonymous No.106956316 [Report]
>>106946370
GenAI isn't going that way if the money dries up
>copyright holders aren't going to look the other way if there's no retarded promise of infinite money glitch
>energy companies and providers aren't going to bend over backwards and promise impossible data centers and shit if there's no money in it
>no one actually wants to pay for it aside from porn addicts with terrible taste
it'll stick around in some ways like what they're doing in medical fields or as a minor suped up autocorrect style tool for able coders but there's no real Internet equivalent out beyond straight up making AGI
Anonymous No.106956319 [Report] >>106956394
>>106956227
>Yes, and Bill Gates is a retired billionaire with more money than he could possibly spend in the time he has left. He's no longer at the head of Microsoft, but when he was, he was as psychopathic as any other CEO of a large corporation.
He was chairman of the board until 2014. Do you really think he had no power or something? Anyway it's bizarre to me how you seem to insist on reducing all powerful rich men as just psychopaths that only want money. Sure some are, but plenty of others, like Gates, obviously are motivated by other things. That was my main point in bringing him up.

>That they are virtual signaling in hopes of getting positive PR, with the end goal of getting more money.
I was talking about the woke masses that support celebrate those things though. Or are they just not real wokies or something?

>It does exist. The idea that it doesn't exist is based on seeing it and saying,
Why do you lack reading comprehension? I was talking about the gender pay gap which doesn't exist, at least in the first world. I actually specifically named an example of gender inequality earlier (male genital cutting) as something that woke people ignore in favor of a made up issue like the gender pay gap.

>The issue is that immigrants are systematically exploited due to their lack of the rights citizens have.
And woke people don't care about this. That's my point. They almost universally support unlimited amounts of illegal aliens as well.

What a strange conversation in general. It seems you have some propensity to defend "woke" for whatever reason and yet you also make claims that undermine/contradict wokeism so I don't understand why you would go out of your way to defend that belief system.
Anonymous No.106956324 [Report] >>106956360 >>106956396
>>106956247
> How, exactly, did wokeism gain so much power all these institutions need to pay lip service to it?
It became popular because people are experiencing our current reality. Now that Trumpism and other fascistic movements, which misplace blame onto victims and their defenders, have taken over the public consciousness, corporations aren't pretending to be woke as often.

Also, you are failing to understand the difference between 'wokeism' and pink capitalism. Pink capitalism is a farce; it's a way of showing support for an ideology without addressing the root causes of the problems it claims to solve.

> It's not all some gigantic 5D chess conspiracy theory where the only *real* believers are random internet commenters
It's not a conspiracy theory, it's the result of corporations (specifically, the individuals at the head of the corporations) acting independently for their own self-interests.
Anonymous No.106956329 [Report] >>106956629
>>106956289
Fascinating variation on the breakfast question. That individual cannot mentally model other minds, so they cannot grasp other ideologies existing - but more impressively, they cannot grasp other definitions existing. Even though the disconnect has been explained multiple times, they cannot distinguish between "I am using this definition" and "this is the universal definition everyone is using", causing them to argue against positions nobody holds.
Anonymous No.106956360 [Report]
>>106956324
>Also, you are failing to understand the difference between 'wokeism' and pink capitalism. Pink capitalism is a farce; it's a way of showing support for an ideology without addressing the root causes of the problems it claims to solve.

This is your copium. Corporations pushed an ideology; you embraced it; but you can't view yourself as a sucker who fell for propaganda, no, you have to invent a conspiracy where they were all faking it and you are the true believer who just so happens to independently follow said ideology.
Anonymous No.106956377 [Report]
>I live in a capitalist society where corporations produce mass media, and this media pushed an ideology, which totally didn't affect me (even though I follow all its tenets) because........ it just didn't okay?
Anonymous No.106956394 [Report] >>106956419 >>106956440 >>106956457 >>106956502
>>106956319
> it's bizarre to me how you seem to insist on reducing all powerful rich men as just psychopaths that only want money
If they aren't psychopaths with an unhealthy obsession with money, they don't become CEOs of large corporations to begin with. A decent person would not allow themselves to become that rich in the first place.

> I was talking about the gender pay gap which doesn't exist, at least in the first world.
It DOES exist. You have just swallowed bullshit excuses to justify the gap, to make you think "it doesn't count".

> I actually specifically named an example of gender inequality earlier (male genital cutting) as something that woke people ignore
They don't, I have already told you.

> And woke people don't care about this. That's my point. They almost universally support unlimited amounts of illegal aliens as well.
They do care. The most common proposed solution is to make it easier for undocumented immigrants to become documented and for documented immigrants to gain citizenship.

> I was talking about the woke masses that support celebrate those things though. Or are they just not real wokies or something?
Many of them are real "wokies", who fell victim to the pink capitalist grift. Corporations do it because it actually works.
Anonymous No.106956396 [Report] >>106956629
>>106956324
>Trumpism and other fascistic movements
I know this is not a new thing but I'm still amazed that people unironically believe this. Trump is not even that powerful of a president and his own views are like 90s-era american liberalism. Okay maybe you can accuse the guy of some corruption or whatever but that does not make it "fascist".
Anonymous No.106956419 [Report] >>106956629
>>106956394
>If they aren't psychopaths with an unhealthy obsession with money, they don't become CEOs of large corporations to begin with. A decent person would not allow themselves to become that rich in the first place.

Motte and bailey. You were claiming something much stronger: that CEOs only care about amassing money, they don't have ideological goals outside this. A person can be an asshole, enjoy being rich, and still have other ideological beliefs/goals.
Anonymous No.106956440 [Report] >>106956468
>>106956394
>They do care. The most common proposed solution is to make it easier for undocumented immigrants to become documented and for documented immigrants to gain citizenship.

Is this a joke?

>we don't support unlimited immigration... we support unlimited immigration where we also hand out benefits!
Anonymous No.106956457 [Report] >>106956629
>>106956394
>Many of them are real "wokies", who fell victim to the pink capitalist grift. Corporations do it because it actually works.

You believe the same stuff too, but gotta separate yourself from the masses huh? They are dumb sheep who fell for propaganda, meanwhile your worldview arrived unsullied from the fucking astral plane.
Anonymous No.106956468 [Report]
>>106956440
>of course we care about the high murder rate, our solution is to cut that rate to 0 by legalising murder
Anonymous No.106956502 [Report] >>106956539
>>106956394
>A decent person would not allow themselves to become that rich in the first place.
This claim is akin to a religious belief. You might as well say "a decent person would pray to Allah 5 times a day" or something. It has the exact same meaning. There's no inherent wrong in having money. But that's also not the point. I only said that rich people can be motivated by other things than just making money (again: Bill Gates).

>It DOES exist. You have just swallowed bullshit excuses to justify the gap, to make you think "it doesn't count".
The gender pay gap is not real. You are beyond help if you believe this. Not even Obama's own administration found evidence. If anything, young women make more than young men nowadays but someone would need to crunch recent numbers on that.

>They don't, I have already told you.
I'm sad to inform you but only fringe people on the internet see male circumcision as a real issue. The average person in America doesn't care. Again, I only bring it up because cutting a male child's genitals is much more serious than vague claims of not being paid quiet the same and yet the latter gets far, far more attention in these circles that supposedly care about gender inequality.

>The most common proposed solution is to make it easier for undocumented immigrants to become documented and for documented immigrants to gain citizenship.
Uhhh so you don't actually fix any underlying issues and allow an unlimited importation of a new slave class. Amazing, it's exactly what I said.

>Many of them are real "wokies", who fell victim to the pink capitalist grift. Corporations do it because it actually works.
That actually backs up what I said earlier. I have no idea why you said this. Indeed, it DOES work. That's one of the reasons why corporations promote woke ideology because people fall for it and then become drones. You make a distinction between "woke" and "pink capitalism" but the latter is just a small subset (pro LGBT stuff) of the former.
Anonymous No.106956539 [Report]
>>106956502
>You make a distinction between "woke" and "pink capitalism" but the latter is just a small subset (pro LGBT stuff) of the former.
And just to elaborate on this a little more because of the word limit. If you want to formulate whatever your definition of woke is as a completely separate category than the usual pro-equity/virtual signalling messaging, you've got a huge uphill battle ahead of you. This is not how people understand the term.
Anonymous No.106956629 [Report] >>106956712
>>106956329
The words in this thread contradict your interpretation. In short, my point is what you are calling "wokeism" is better described as pink capitalism, which is not a real ideology, and people here that ""wokeism""/pink capitalism are real ideologies.

>>106956396
Trumpism meets all the criteria for fascism.

>>106956419
My point is that their main goal is getting money; they don't genuinely push for goals that undermine their own power, even if they pretend to.

>we don't support unlimited immigration... we support unlimited immigration where we also hand out benefits!
Yes, immigrants are the victims in this whole situation.

>>106956457
Wokeism doesn't originate from pink capitalism; pink capitalism is a grift which became available in response to the rise of wokeism, just as today's rightist fascist populist arising from radicalized conservatism is a grift taking advantage of what people already believe.

> I only said that rich people can be motivated by other things than just making money (again: Bill Gates).
Bill Gates is not an exception, he already maxed out all the power you can get by getting money. Being recognized as a kind celebrity is just another way to keep increasing his power and fame.

> Not even Obama's own administration found evidence. If anything, young women make more than young men nowadays but someone would need to crunch recent numbers on that.
Cite the evidence, then.

> Uhhh so you don't actually fix any underlying issues and allow an unlimited importation of a new slave class.
If immigrants are granted the same rights as other citizens, corporations will no longer be able to exploit them, they don't become slaves.

> This is not how people understand the term.
Yes, because of the propaganda you have swallowed, obfuscating your understanding on the whole matter.
Anonymous No.106956712 [Report] >>106956795
>>106956629
>Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.
https://consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

This discussion is largely devolving into definition autism which is pointless because it becomes a continuous guessing game of "what the fuck does anon mean" since you refuse to clarify at all. I will just point out that your attempt at rebranding what posters here are calling woke as "pink capitalism" is factually wrong. Pink capitalism refers to specifically pro LGBT pandering from corporations. Woke is a much broader category that also includes race, gender, etc. so it's not a good term to use. Unless you want to redefine pink capitalism as well and just complicate things further.

>corporations will no longer be able to exploit them, they don't become slaves.
lol lmao even. I guess corporations are now confirmed for not exploiting any american citizen
Anonymous No.106956795 [Report] >>106956879
>>106956712
> The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.
That's the kind of disingenuous discourse I was talking about. The study disingenuously justifies the differences in wages on the basis of individual choices. The problem lies in the reasons WHY there are differences in 'individual choices'. Those “choices” are heavily shaped by the structures people live in. Women are funneled toward certain fields from early education, discouraged from pursuing others, and burdened with a disproportionate share of childcare responsibilities. They face workplace cultures that penalize maternity leave, reward constant availability, and undervalue traditionally “feminine” professions. They’re constrained choices ones conditioned by years sociocultural coercion and indoctrination.

> lol lmao even. I guess corporations are now confirmed for not exploiting any american citizen
Disingenuous response. I was responding to the idea of using immigrants to create a 'new slave class' beneath American wage slaves.
Anonymous No.106956879 [Report] >>106956946
>>106956795
Arguing that there is a giant conspiracy by society since birth to deceive women into making individual choices that leads them into lower paying careers is peak quackery. Is it so hard to conceive that, on average, men and women tend to make different choices which is influenced by biology and leads to different outcomes? This isn't some great evil that needs to be vanquished.

>I was responding to the idea of using immigrants to create a 'new slave class' beneath American wage slaves.
But that's exactly what happens in this scenario. Just because they magically become citizens doesn't change the fact they work shit jobs with shitty pay. And since your proposal allows for literally unlimited unskilled immigration, anyone that complains can easily be replaced by the next that waltzes in tomorrow.
Anonymous No.106956946 [Report] >>106956985
>>106956879
> Arguing that there is a giant conspiracy by society since birth to deceive women into making individual choices that leads them into lower paying careers is peak quackery.
It's not a 'giant conspiracy'; it's the reality that people face every day. Yes, people do hold beliefs that are counterproductive and absurd. For example: Christianity. Arguing that this kind of thing doesn't happen and that people are fully rational is like insisting that cows are perfect spheres sliding over a frictionless plane in a vacuum.

> Just because they magically become citizens doesn't change the fact they work shit jobs with shitty pay.
That's where fighting for better workers' rights and stronger unions comes in. The aim is to improve working conditions and the overall quality of life for both naturalised immigrants and people born in America.

> anyone that complains can easily be replaced by the next that waltzes in tomorrow.
Yes, that's exactly why unions are so important. They balance the power between employers and employees to prevent abuse like this.
Anonymous No.106956985 [Report] >>106957063
>>106956946
>Yes, people do hold beliefs that are counterproductive and absurd. For example: Christianity.
Sure and Wokeism is another example. I'd argue that Christianity is actually just proto-wokeism. Anyways there's this handy thing called occam razor. Instead of insisting without evidence that there's this giant secret unquantifiable mechanism of oppression, it's safer to just say that people's free individual choices just statistically lead to different outcomes.

>That's where fighting for better workers' rights and stronger unions comes in.
That's just unrealistic idealism. What little power the union has vanishes when the corporation can just import someone else at any time to do his shit job. Remember in this scenario, the labor pool is literally the entire fucking world. The supply is billions of people not just your local town.
Anonymous No.106957063 [Report] >>106957087
>>106956985
> it's safer to just say that people's free individual choices just statistically lead to different outcomes.
If choices were truly free, we would expect NO difference in outcomes. You are basically arguing for a god of the gaps when there are already well known sociocultural mechanisms for what we observe.

> What little power the union has vanishes when the corporation can just import someone else at any time to do his shit job.
That's why contracts between employers and individual employees should be illegal in these circumstances. Everyone should negotiate through the union, without employers being able to exploit idiots that ruin it for everyone else.
Anonymous No.106957087 [Report] >>106957392
>>106957063
>If choices were truly free, we would expect NO difference in outcomes
What? No we wouldn't. Men and women are different groups on a biological level. It stands to reason that on average they have different interests and proclivities that lead to different outcomes.

>That's why contracts between employers and individual employees should be illegal in these circumstances. Everyone should negotiate through the union, without employers being able to exploit idiots that ruin it for everyone else.
Cool now the union gets to exploit everyone instead.
Anonymous No.106957392 [Report] >>106957521
>>106957087
> Men and women are different groups on a biological level.
So, are you backing off from your claim that it is justified because it is an "individual choice"? Nobody chooses to be male or female. In any case, you are ignoring all the factors that are not related to biology.

> Cool now the union gets to exploit everyone instead.
In order to be legally valid, unions should be run democratically and in an egalitarian manner, as they are in countries where they are effective (see: Nordic countries).
Anonymous No.106957521 [Report]
>>106957392
Reeks of a pointless semantic distinction. Quite obviously, your biology influences your choices (e.g. if you were born with down syndrome your life would be way different). If as a consequence of that fact, you want to no longer count individual choices as individual choices, that's your prerogative but it's entirely meaningless and doesn't change my argument at all. The logical conclusion devolves to "nature oppresses you" which is fine and dandy but there's nothing anyone can do about that so it's a meaningless observation.

>the factors that are not related to biology
There are none.

>see: Nordic countries
I'm not an expert on the labor laws in those countries, but I doubt it actually works in the manner you prescribed. However more importantly, those countries don't allow unlimited immigration from just anyone that waltzes in.