Thread 107035845

picrel is a wiring schematics designed by an electrical engineer. along the with panel layout drawings, they are handed to a panel builder in order to assemble the panel.
there is not much room for creativity, iteration, or problem solving for the panel building monkey, he just needs to follow the plan.
what is the equivalent schematic for software engineering?

>>107035845 (OP)
There is none, because "software engineering" has nothing to do with engineering.

>>107035845 (OP)
Maybe pre compiled code is the diagram
Compiler is the panel maker
Compiled code is the panel

"Software engineering" what is that, like "vegan bacon"?

>>107036236
>the machines were real in my head

>>107036234
the coder is the panel builder

contractors hired to port code from one language to another

>>107035845 (OP)
OOP was supposed to do this but it failed.

See UML diagrams and CASE tools. They're outdated as soon as they're made, only have very niche uses today but that's more of a fossilized requirement from when certifications were made.

>>107035845 (OP)
>what is the equivalent schematic for software engineering?
sysadmins deploying the software or devops guys building it

Any spec, I guess. Industry experts churn these out, armies of code monkeys implement an API or language or whatever to match the spec.

>>107036155
This. Software development is art, not engineering or math. Creating software is like creating a painting. This is why CS cucks in academia are so useless at writing software. They spend their entire lives studying the paintbrush but never actually using it to paint anything.

>>107038712
Aren't there certain kinds of software (mainly software used in embedded systems like flight controllers, electronic control units for cars, and, y'know, the digital interface for the thing OP has up on his schematic) that have extremely strict, standardized requirements with regard to how they have to be specified, programmed, and tested?
t. not really a software guy

>>107035845 (OP)
UML existed but we realized it's are a waste of time. Code is abstract, panel wiring is concrete.
I'm sure the DoD ADA people use something skookum and it actually works for them.

>>107035845 (OP)
pseudocode

>>107035845 (OP)
formal specification

>>107039778
yes, specially in aerospace.
and it is how software should be done, instead we got the awful mess we have

>>107035845 (OP)
The runtime, the compiler and the assembler.

Well python. Its c code thats ported to python for the majority. however the c code is the workhorse.

>>107038712
>>107036155
Just because you cannot into stuff that is not a mess but instead can be maintained for longer than 6 months that does not mean that one cannot be a software engineer. It only means that you cannot.

>>107035845 (OP)
I would say flowcharts and other process diagrams are approximate.

>>107036155
this
software monkeys are actually writers, not engineers, that's why everything about it is cluster fuck

>>107041487
So have you got any experience in the matter or how'd you know?

>>107035845 (OP)
timing diagram
communication diagram
sequence diagram
component diagram
architectural diagram
for data: Entity Relationship Diagram (ERD)
>>107036155
just because a bunch of hobbyists called themselves software developers and infiltrated the field DOES NOT mean software engineering does not exist. That is like saying that just because a shitton of people cook themselves dinner that gourmet chef recipes and cook books don't exist.

>>107035845 (OP)
logic flowcharts

>>107036155
based and very true

>>107037706
>OOP was supposed to do this
yet again, a retard filtered by object oriented programming completely misunderstands what it was for in the first place

>>107041889
It’s always telling when people get so defensive over the only thing they think makes them valuable. Your average software “engineer” couldn’t do science if their lives depended on it.

Nooo I heckin reversed the binary tree (by looking up the solution in Cracking The Coding Interview™) , that makes me exactly the same as le scientician!!

>>107042005
>>107041985
Yeah, not all engineers are scientist, you know? And they never claimed to be. Engineers solve a specific problem using tools that work backed by science. Scientists on the other hand advance knowledge in general, sometimes using methods of engineering to test a theory. There is a difference here.

>>107042204
and how is computer "science" a science?

>>107035845 (OP)
I find electrical engineering dry af, but others feel the same way about programming, each to their own I guess

>>107042214
Computer science is about explaining and advancing the inner workings of the freaking computer as device. Be it in theory or in hardware.
Computer science itself has got nothing to do with creating software for endusers.

>>107042228
how is that not simply electrical engineering

>>107042204
>code monkey /= engineer
>but le heckin’ engineer isn’t a scientist anyways
????

>>107042234
How is chemistry not simply physics? Or how is electrical engineering not simply quantum physics? Do you like moving goalposts? Maybe moving goalposts is just applied physics?

>>107042255
>????
Exactly.

>>107042256
I also saw that xkcd comic

>>107042255
engineering isn't science

>>107042256
chemistry and physics are both sciences and involve experimentation. and yes, "X Science is just Applied Y" is an ancient meme.

>Or how is electrical engineering not simply quantum physics?
well first off retard because electrical engineering doesn't deal primarily with the smallest units of reality so it's not really quantum anything and really if you're working with analog signals it's applied physics and if it's digital it's applied math. and battery development is applied chemistry

>>107042270
Regardless, it’s a non sequitur to the point that code monkeys aren’t engineers.

>>107042287
Code monkeys aren't engineers. But software engineers are in fact engineers.

>>107035845 (OP)
The airbnb thing didnt work so we're pivoting into being an airship next quarter you can find the draft marketing slides in our google drive. Anyway so like we want like giant propellers on both sides and then there's gonna be mooring hook at the front that also charges the battery (which the battery vendor says is 100% compatible with our systems so dont you worry about that)
Can we get a time estimate? Of course we dont expect it to be exact but some rough estimate by friday eod.
Thanks anon.

>>107042326
software engineers are code monkeys

>>107042327
>code monkey tries to come up with a complex problem because he doesnt know anything about manufacturing

about a week to pick up a COTS 120 to 72v step down transformer and associated connectors for the mooring hook mounted battery port and Rotax has 30 day lead time quoted on their web site. That was an easy assignment, time to take the rest of the week off!

>>107042364
Again, just for you: Only because *you* are incapable of being a software engineer, that does not mean that nobody is. It's solely a *you* problem.

>>107042381
We need to use powershell to remove a couple of files from my home drive...
Can we get a time estimate?

>>107042391
You do not need to use powershell.
So if anything the task would be
>need to remove a couple of files from my home drive
and at that point the engineer could indeed estimate that once he has gathered enough information:
- how many is "a couple"?
- how large are they? what is the gross size?
- what type of drive?
- is "home drive" remote or local?

Then we can estimate the time that it takes to find a solution. And then we can estimate the time that it takes to implement. We can also be quite creative here. Like using a hammer to kill the drive and a quick walk to the hardware store to get a new one. Estimated time: 2 hours. Successrate estimation: 100%

Compare that to the task of building a bridge:
- how high is it going to be?
- what is the span that it needs to have?
- what weight would it need to carry?

Yes, you can do engineering that way. Does not meant that it makes sense though. You would not ask an engineer how has got experience building bridges to talk to you about crossing the ditch in your backyard either.

UML
Of course, code monkeys rejected it.

>>107042456
>"software" "engineer" receives completely normal task
>trips over himself huffing his own farts, ignores requirements, does not even give a solution in the end

>>107042364
>actual engineer receives shitpost task
>actually accomplishes it in just a few minutes

hmmmmm

>>107042502
>tripping over the fact that powershell is not a requirement
Do you even wonder why _you_ fail to be an engineer or do you simply accept your fate?

>>107042516
You were told by the boss that it has to be done with powershell. Are you really so bad with a computer that you couldn't figure out to type "rm [file]"?

>>107042526
Any chance you are a code monkey yourself?

>>107042555
>"no u!!"
m8 you're not a real engineer, you dont even have a digikey account.

>>107042364
The airship now needs to make an ocean landing because one of our early customers is from epsteins island.

>>107042690
It was already designed with a rigid hull, sir, but we can bolt some floats to it like those sealift helicopters. The power connector comes fused from the supplier, we're not madmen so there's a manual breaker already, but we can swap to a marine style power connector trivially.

>>107036155
spbp

>>107035845 (OP)
>what is the equivalent schematic for software engineering?
Source code. Any other answer is cope.

>>107042776
>retarded techbro tries to come up with outlandish crazy problem
>it's literally already solved in the real world
code monkeys cant stop getting owned
just admit you're ignorant and possibly retarded already

>>107042921
not really because op pic also defines physical locations for the wiring so it's more analogous to a network diagram or something. source code equivalent would be a raw circuit diagram not incorporating locations or specific parts in use. yet again, techbro code monkeys fail to understand the world outside of their chosen meme language

>>107042959
t. NEET LARPing as a professional

>>107042959
The future is Software-Defined. Adapt or die, loser.

>>107042776
An AI could have made this in seconds. Cope

>>107035845 (OP)
>there is not much room for creativity, iteration
Wrong.
>>107039778
Railway software. Any kind of safety-critical industrial control.

>>107039778
pretty much every field that isn't consoomer software really, but consoomer software is the only thing the average code monkey will ever have contact with so you get those sorts of fart huffing posts

OP here
https://mega.nz/file/MF8hWDpY#9_7jVTLLkb5c5SMVzRJ5wl4K_LvSNEJL3n8H4MpkKxU
linkrel you will find a technical document from Siemens where pages 5-12 contain functional diagrams describing the logic of a DC motor drive (picrel is the motor)

>>107044919
anon here. On github you find technical documents from various companies describing the logic of software application.