Thread 107117244

It's over bros. China is going to win the A.I. race. What does this mean for us? Does this mean the cost of technology is going to remain high? The same amount of RAM that used to sell for $40 at the beginning of the year costs $130 right now. I can't take this anymore. I'm so poor.

completely unrelated
good job op you really out retarded yourself this time.

Thats fine, because "dominating AI" is going to be a huge loser. When the bubble bursts there is giong to be a LOT of datacenters that will just be sitting there.

>>107117244 (OP)
competition in technological advancements is always exciting. just enjoy the ride anon

This is not good anons.

>>107117244 (OP)
He is trying to accelerate the arms race to prop up the bubble.

isn't this just how defense spending works?
>IF YOU DON'T GIVE US 6 GORILLION DOLLARS IN FUNDING CHINA WILL DESTROY US IN 2 MONTHS

I hope they do. Yank companies have shown themselves to be the devil.

>>107117244 (OP)
There should be riots in the street over the fact that we have less market competition and more regulation than an allegedly communist country.

>>107117244 (OP)
Guess we better give up then. Sounds like it's pretty set in stone. Maybe we should nationalize nvidia and distribute GPUs for some other purpose since China already won.

>>107117244 (OP)
>China is going to win the A.I. race
No fucking shit, Einstein.

Chink domination is potentially more annoying. When someone dominate a market, they typically raise their price to get more profit with their monopoly, this in someway allow others to enter by using cheaper pricing. But chink never does this.

Take rare earth price for example, it hasn't gone up for over 10 years despite them having a near monopoly over it, same story with battery and solar panel which they also dominate, those keep dropping instead.

imagine all the fucking hardware that will be floating around once the bubble pops

mass surveilance of online communication is the only long term usecase of LLMs

>>107117716
There is only bubble in America, not in China. Once the American economy collapses, China will buy the hardware for pennies.

>>107117716
I hope it will, but the US might just try to recycle it, and like all the old university and school stuff, just end up in a landfill while the sysadmin plays with a new build he sneaked away

>>107117731
they've spent $100 billion on ai this year
it's a bubble everywhere

>>107117244 (OP)
And they are going to do it with NVIDIAs help lmao
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/china-bans-foreign-ai-chips-from-state-funded-data-centers

>china will take over the world in [Insert Field here]
two more weeks

>>107117718
This. All the /pol/ CHUDs that think it will become based and 1488 are useful idiots for their own enemys.
t. a /pol/ CHUD

>>107117755
Literally pennies.

>>107117716
I hope so but everything sucks so I expect it to somehow stay expensive

>>107117702
No one's going to buy commodities at a high price. Not to mention, China issued so many business loans they basically put all of their manufacturers into one giant race to the bottom with themselves because it was the only way to grow their economy. Imagine if the US just started a $10 trillion fund to mass produce lithography machines and start fabs and started loaning out hundreds of billions at a time. Suddenly there are a dozen big companies just funded by perpetual government loans pumping out chips. The price of wafers wouldn't just drop to 1/10. They'd plummet as those companies all start trying to undercut each other.

The downside is that private sector debt explodes. And if those companies start going under, you kinda fucked up your economy.

>>107117244 (OP)
>Lower energy costs and less regulation are needed if you want to build a lot of 4 bit matrix multipliers
He's probably right but the better question is why build all that shit

>>107117687
question
why didnt any venture capitalists or capitalists in general invest in expanding energy production in the united states? why did only state capitalists in china foresee the possibility of electrical demand increasing in the future?

>>107117980
because muh climate change

>>107118000
that doesnt add up because they could build solar/nuclear/wind if that was it
it's like americans automatically form sides against each other deliberately to make sure nothing useful gets done

>>107118018
Build more solar for what? There wasn't any demand. America doesn't build anything. It hasn't built anything for decades. I have literally nothing in my house that was built in America.

I genned pornslop on xitter and somewhere in america a watertable is used to cool my pornslop process and söe amerigoys subsidise my pornslop power bill lmao

>>107118037
I was going to say cheaper aluminum for coca cola but I bet cola is made in Mexico or Canada now too

Looks like someone received an angry call from the white house.

>>107118018
Trump hates solar because all of his friends and the people who rule him are into coal and oil. Go figure.

not good anons

>>107118400
>taps sign*

>>107117244 (OP)
He's just baiting the US government into dumping trillions into the US r&d market to keep the bubble from popping

>>107118086
solar is a waste of money, those things can't generate energy at night

>>107117244 (OP)
The AI will find a way to produce cheap RAM :)

>>107118038
Image generation uses very small amounts of energy. You can already generate images locally on a shitty $150 iPhone SE 2022.
It's the gigantic LLMs that run on datacenters that consume ungodly amounts of energy.

>>107117244 (OP)
As that chink faggot wants to sell more of his company's product to the chinks, he does not care if the US "loses" the "AI race".
You can see what he wants in that screenshot, more funding from the US gov and reduction of any laws that impedes on his expansion and at the same time wanting to sell more shit to the chinks, us and eu companies.

>>107117485
Yes

>>107117761
yea

>>107119525
if only you could burn the dollars to generate electricity.
Oh wait the US doesn't even have enough dollars to burn (reserve currency btw)
>700 billion dollars a month printed
>0.1% inflation
jews can't explain this

>>107117244 (OP)
>China
>Winning at anything, ever
Pick one (1).

>>107117980
Because investing in the production of a resource causes its price to sink. You're effectively pouring in more work and money for development in order to accept less for whatever you're selling. The economy has been based around artificial scarcity for decades, that's actually part of the reason China's is slowly imploding. They're actually building stuff and now they've oversaturated all their markets the same way the US had back in the 90s and 00s. Its great if you're a consumer, since you can get cheap consumer goods, but it leads to the eventual collapse and absorbtion of the companies involved into larger and larger conglomerates because its a bad business decision.

>>107119940
>infinite food
>infinite energy
>infinite money
>infinite competitiveness in the market
>inflation at 0%
>44 trillion in liquidity more than the US + Europe + Japan etc combined
that is bad btw

>>107120053
>China Dairy Production: 29%
Imagine living life without cheese and eggs. Sounds like hell.

>>107120053
>Posting lies on the internet
>Unironically
China is food negative, 70% of their population is still illiterate and lives without electricity, running water or basic sanitation. They still haven't moved out of the agrarian age in the vast majority of their nation and the US requires vast factory farms spanning thousands of acres with automated equipment just to feed itself, none of which China has.

The moment international food trade cuts itself off, the majority of Chinese will starve. That's the truth.

>>107117980
Because tech VCs are retarded animals. Genuinely some of the dumbest homonids out there that actually disprove meritocracy unlike successful VC scammers like Elon. The entire tech sector in US is just one theatre designed to suck as much VC money as possible while the average person looks from the sidelines not falling for it.

>>107120184
Asians can’t digest milk and cheese. They have some of the highest rates of lactose intolerance. That’s why they eat so many onions beans and tofu instead of cheese.

>>107117244 (OP)
That's good. China seems more commited to open source. It'd be the good guy winning in this scenario.

>>107117244 (OP)
Humiliation ritual.
>>107117271
Retard take.
>>107117514
True and real.
>>107120459
> That’s why they eat so many onions beans
Stop spreading miss information, there is no such thing as onions beans.

>>107117514
It is weird to me how Americans love capitalism yet condone having oligopolies in nearly every major industry. That is the exact scenario Adam Smith himself was afraid of.

>>107118000
China's energy expansion has been green m8, China generates less co/2 per capita than the US

>>107120610
They're also expanding nuclear energy faster than any other country right now.

time to start my free mandarin course on duolingo

>>107120221
america does not feed just itself. it has a legitimately crippling overcapacity in basedbeans as china has just shown

>>107118086
No, he hates windmills cause they ruined the view from one of his gold-courses or something like that.

>>107117244 (OP)
Can someone please explain the point of all these AI shit, if chat-gpt can't even do basic math?

>>107120742
It's insane when you think about it.

There basically 3 ship builders in the world.

China 50%
South Korea 30%
Japan 17%

And the rest of the world is peanuts. Look at this Croatia and Singapore if you combine them build the same as Russia.

It literally might come down to Chinese ship buildiers outproducing American munitions builders.

>>107120851
My job got replaced by them endless ones will follow. Or should I say almost all my coworkers are left with no jobs and I'm the only one standing.
I'm sure you heard the thing where 10% of the companies workforce generates 90% of it's revenue right?
Well thats because jobs have all these useless things.
HR. Management. Low skilled labor doing menial boring things. Intermediaries.
I'll use my own job as example because the workflow is easy to understand.
A workflow would usually look like this. Someone in decision making would create a goal.

>This website needs traffic to generate ad revenue of affiliate revenue.
Then someone in planing creates an action plan on what needs to be done. We will divide the budget into 50% new articles, 20% supporting articles, 20% direct ads bought to drive traffic and 10% in website technical fixes.

The SEO gets the 50% new articles, 20% articles goes to research what needs to be done. Creates a list of what keywords, topics, themes are the most synergistic with the website.
Tech SEO goes and looks at all the SEO faults on the website, creates a plan on fixing these.
This is sent to management then then assigns writers, editors, web programmers.
They all complete their work and then we need to evaluate it. It then goes through a revision and quality check process.

After it's done we also need people to now input all of this into their website.
We also need people to create a staging website where all the fixes are implemented and tested.

So 1 CEO commands > 1 SEO Architect
1 SEO Architect > 1 SEO Researcher / 1 Technical SEO
1-5 Writing Managers > 5~50 Writers (10 In house 40 Flexible Contractors)
1 Head Editor > 3 Editors
1 Senior Programmer > 2 Frontend Programers 1 Web Designer 1 Backed Programer

>>107120988
So what did AI do?

>All SEOs merged into one role.
AI automatically compiles the data beating most SEOs outright with their silly excel sheets data skills. It's pure data-math and the AI can do it better. All it needs is a good source.

>Only Writing Managers Remain all the writing is done by AI.
Editors are replaced by de facto fact checkers of their respective fields or familiar fields as these is no need to proof read AI it's always prefect. What you need to check for is hallucinations and factually incorrect shit. Writing style, tone, localization can all be fine tuned 1000 times better then any writers I worked with in my entire life. I want an article written in fucking Yorkshire Accent I can get one. It's also works for localisation I can ask it to speak fucking Osaka Ben in Japanese and it will do so perfectly. At least the advanced models we're paying.

>2 "Full Stack" Web Devs, Web Design outsourced
You don't need a senior now, most of it can be done by two people that are familiar with front end and back end programing, it won't be perfect but it doesn't have to be it has to be cheaper and more effective. The AI somehow allows us to do more now because most programmers maintaining websites are actually pretty fucking bad and will struggle with the most basic website changes. Designs are outsourced.

>AI allows us to input directly into websites databases totally avoiding the whole pay people to input

So about 50 writers lost their jobs, the managers had their work increased but at the same time they have more control.
2 SEO lost their jobs.
2 Programers that were decent lost their jobs.
1 Web Designer lot his job.

All of these weren't top tier jobs, but they earned these people a living wage doing something simple and sometimes rewarding. We had housewives writing, we had people after work doing it as a second job, we basically provided sort of blue collar jobs for people. They didn't need to be too skilled or too smart.

>>107121045
An you can imagine these was massive savings for the company.

They could replace the bulk of their raw materials the writers with a few hundred dollar subs to different LLMs.
They streamlined the management of the company and made it more flat.
In addition since we now don't need an office space, that was shelved in favor of some small tiny one and everyone simply works from home. Going to meetings maybe every 2 weeks or when a new big project comes that actually needs a meeting.

For the industry that the internet created the "website industry" this was like replacing almost the entire raw resource input and all the workers with robots at 5% of the cost. Letting go almost all of the subpar preforming seniors/juniors and streamlining management to a T.

You know who didn't ironically lose any jobs? The sales team. Because they need to communicate with other people and sell our product.

>>107117244 (OP)
>China will win the AI race
it's not even a race. china is winning and will win everything from now on. Other countries don't need to win, china will be happy to sell us what they make. If other countries cared they would invest heavily in research and development like they did in the past. the west likes to outsource innovation to private companies who only want to make money, they don't really care if they achieve anything. look at spacex for example. it's just grift. in china you get put to death for stealing billions from the people.

>>107121273
>in china you get put to death for stealing billions from the people
in china you put yourself to death but they have suicide nets at the factories

>>107117244 (OP)
That's really bad, actually. King Winnie the Pooh doesn't allow any pornographic content, China is even worse than the US in that regard.
Image models that draw porn are the only useful application of this technology, so that's worrying.

>>107121295
that was twenty years ago and foxconn was punished for doing it, but it's cool that you're thinking of the workers anon I like where you're head is at

>>107117514
facts

>>107121305
ironically all the good local models (and the AI porn that follows that) are made by China (like Wan, Qwen Image...)

>>107117271
^^^^
This
They aren't even datacenters, they are supercomputers. They only reason they are call datacenters is just more investor-speak (a.k.a suckers) friendly. Supercomputers are still associated with government and academia.

>>107120610
ROFL, not even remotely true anymore.

AI race is China pulling a 1980s USA at bankrupting its opponent via defense build-up.
USA does not have capital and solvency for it but has to do for "appearances" on the global stage.

>>107121356
i dont actually give a fuck about the workers beyond that i hope their jobs are all automated away as quickly as possible while the productivity is allocated to leisure (for me and only me)

>>107121378
Confirmed

>>107120584
It is generational trauma and anti-communist propaganda at work from the second red scare.

>>107117244 (OP)
kys shill

Give me Trijion Dorrar or Chiner win AI race.

>>107120221
You forgot that majority of their groundwater is polluted with heavy metals. They couldn't produce, even if they wanted.

>breathe air, get lung cancer
>eat food, get ass cancer
What a hellscape to live in.

>>107117271
>Um....... actually it's GOOD that we lost!
Trumptards really are on another level of self-delusion.

>>107117244 (OP)
>Regulatory environment
Pure cope.
>lower energy costs
Factually true, but to reduce the race to just that factor is cope.

>>107117514
>less market competition and more regulation
It's because the chinese have no privacy or copyright laws that the government/businesses run by the government control.
It's a good thing for individuals we aren't like china you retard

>>107117514
We are too fucking delusional, woke, and kiked all at once for that sort of clarity.

The US could achieve AGI with a half year’s lead and still fail to scale to ASI in time before China catches up because you can’t get brown people to build nuclear plants quickly enough lol

>>107117244 (OP)
>...Unless you give me 4 trillion dollars

>>107119703
*Pumps water up during the day for free*

>>107120584
The definition of capitalism changed 100 years ago and this was exploited by the elites to institute neo-mercantilism and then globalism.

99% of people use the newer definitions and have no idea what you or I are referring to when we say capitalism. In fact, they also think Adam Smith was also using the new definition.

You know what might help the USA win the AI race? More tariffs and brain drain

>>107118084
I was an AI Developer.
I gave up on the field cause the whole fields bullshit.
Whole countrys bullshit actually.

Probably shouldve stayed in it for the money. But I wasnt in it for the money. I probably shouldve been tho.

>>107122680
lmao sounds like someone got laid off

>>107122438
Impressive... Now let's see the thermodynamic efficiency for electric -> mechanical -> potential -> mechanical -> electric.

China will win the AI race because their projects are purpose-driven, instead of customer-driven.
Being able to model thermodynamic dissipation at 200km/h makes more money than a chat for obese people who like to pretend they are in an anime.

>>107122777
First you give the calculation for NPPs with the usual 500 % budget overrun and construction time delays.

>>107122803
Understandable, ok if I start with the capacity factor instead before heading off into the overregulation red tape overhead?

>>107117980
>investing in expand
You don't make money like this; you make money by selling something that is hard to get. The less energy a country produces, the more you can charge and the more profit you have.
This is the jewish way...

Remember the people who froze to death in Texas during the crazy winter a couple of years ago? The grid was set in a way to make energy scarce so the companies could charge more. People died and kikes made money...

>>107122824
How about cost vs capacity factor vs project time?

>>107122174
Unlike here, where privacy or copyright laws only apply to individuals and don't matter for businesses that are too big to fail or can pay lawyers to drag it out in court to make it go away

>>107122852
Of course, ok if I adjust it to account for an increase of roughly 10 new NPPs per year like China is? As it turns out, scale drives down costs per unit - who could have guessed?

>>107122893
Can i get NPPs on Alibaba like solar panels?

>>107122955
Probably not, but for the right price, maybe.
Your local NIMBYs on the other hand would reject the Second Coming of Christ if it happened to have to pass through their neighborhood.

>>107123011
>Your local NIMBYs
Well, you're right on that one. We built an NPP and had a referendum after it was ready to turn on and voted to close it down before a single kwh was generated lol.

>>107117244 (OP)
Western companies are too busy making AI lie by programming it with woke slop, anti-white propaganda, LGBT and safety rails. China just makes stuff that works because it plays to win.

One of the biggest players in tech, Google has pumped out completely useless garbage because they have terminal woke mind virus.

It's that simple. Inb4 you call me a shill. I'm just another white guy sick of the state of Western civilization.

>>107123064
>Western companies are too busy making AI lie by programming it with woke slop, anti-white propaganda, LGBT and safety rails. China just makes stuff that works because it plays to win.

Ask your chink ai about Tiananmen Square

>>107121045
You don't even need that anon. I could do all of those roles myself with an LLM.

>>107117244 (OP)
>AI
it's enhanced automation, not even near "AI"

>>107123074
I'd rather live in country that had a couple of incidents being heavy handed with protestors than a country that is set to demographically replace its native inhabitants with mass migration and arrests anyone speaking out about it.

But I'm not Chinese. So I guess I'll just continue living in this dystopian European shithole until they round us up.

>>107122794
Purpose-driven economy is also the reason USSR won the cold war, and why we're all living in a marxist utopia now.

>>107121406
Retard here with a question. What are they going to do if/when they hit a compute limit where AI doesn't require thousands of acres of GPUs to function? Considering most of the supercomputer power in the US is for nuclear weapons design and detonation simulations, what do they plan on doing with all dem GPUs when the bubble pops? Not like the Air Force started firesales on PS3's when they took down Condor. It really seems like the entire AI research industry should be taken over by the DoE because at least they have some use for the hardware when everything fall apart. It's also pretty incredible when you think they can't replicate even a fraction of the capabilities of the wrinkly flesh bag in-between your ears running at single digit Hz cycles with multiple supercomputer arrays the size of warehouse distribution centers

>>107117244 (OP)
>Oh no, we're losing...! That is, unless of course you now pump trillions into the AI industry (which they will spend on our cards!!).
How convenient.

>>107123261
To be fair, the Russian "purpose" during the Cold War was build as many nuclear weapons as could as fast as possible. I don't think any post WWII scientific innovations trickled down to any consumer product applications like they did in the US. The beginning and middle of the Cold War were actually pretty awesome for Americans because defense science was actively being applied to consumer products, and we were doing cool shit. I think we still do lots of cool shit, but unfortunately it will never see the light of day because we unironically classify fucking everything because we learned it from the KGB.