Thread 107148476

Solar Panels. Are they a scam or are they the future?

>>107148476 (OP)
>put this black rectangle on your roof and get free energy from the sky
What do you think?

>>107148476 (OP)
They generate peak power for only 3 hours every day and don't work at night or when it's cloudy, and you pay $14K for the privilege.
Nuclear is the future and gas remains the best for cars for the foreseeable future.

>>107148482
>free energy
The panels and installation isn't free.

if you live in the third world they make sense because your upstream energy provider sucks and is incredibly corrupt
if you are a first worlder, its the current government scheme to transfer money to you from the undesireables

if they need to be subsidised to make financial sense in your area they're a scam

>>107148511
>if you are a first worlder, its the current government scheme to transfer money to you from the undesireables
This is so true
They set it up so if you have solar then for the next 20 years your solar will be worth 1:1 with the electricity
So they can rise electric rate high as possible and everyone rich enough to install enough solar to cover their needs now will be paying nothing for the next 20 years while everyone too poor to do it will be forced to pay higher and higher rates
t.too poor to do it now

>>107148476 (OP)
Solar panels are more devastating to the environment than just continuing to use clean coal or natural gas.

>>107148476 (OP)
If you don't have a well, your house is very small, and you don't use electricity for heat (especially hot water) or your car then yeah you can just buy a few $k worth and disconnect from the grid. It's pretty amazing.

>>107148597
Do not do grid tied solar, you will absolutely get fucked over by retarded admins.

The trick to surviving in the first world going forward is to have as few obligations and dependencies on people you don't personally know as possible.

>>107148476 (OP)
Were 2 days and 331 replies not enough for your retarded ass? >>107127418

>>107148491
The energy is

It's only a scam if you buy the panels and installation from literal scammers that are charging out the ass. Panels are dirt cheap nowadays and you can install them yourself as long as you get an electrician to hook them up.

Selling back to the grid is usually a fucking scam tho. You want to use the energy yourself instead of trying to sell it to the grid.

>>107148732
No they aren't idiot.

>>107148732
>muh environment
As if we make any difference

>>107148797
>and you can install them yourself
You think people who can't even install Ubuntu could set up a solar array and battery bank?

>>107148773
this
as soon as you tie it to the grid all sorts of gay bullshit shows up at your door.
installing your own solar with battery storage is very affordable.

>>107148491
>The panels and installation isn't free.
And you think hydro/nuke/coal/etc.-plants are? are you daft?

>>107148476 (OP)
We had this thread yesterday.

Are these thread being made to drive activity? Is 4chan on its last legs?

>>107148476 (OP)
Solar panels + batteries would be a very good future

>>107148784
>>107148916
threads like this one that are repetitive and have odd "controversial" answers always make me wonder if these threads are made by 4chan itself to create the illusion of higher user activity, if we are talking to bots. or if we are participating in some sort of psychological/marketing study for who knows what topic.

>>107149094
Nah, just keeping Hiro's scam for advertiser-sama going.

I don't mind, it's not like there's anywhere better to go on this festering dead shithole that is the modern Internet

>>107149094
We got those leaks from 4vhan traffic but even before it was quite clear that many if not most posts are not organic and probably haven't been in half a decade.

>>107148773
>>107148872
Batteries are illegal in New York...
Also I mean I can see what you're saying ideologically, but you get to use grid as a free virtually unlimited battery you can draw from at any time, seems as good as it gets.

>>107148476 (OP)
Both.
They're a great power source if done right, but the policies surrounding them right now are back-asswards.

>>107149695
>policies
which policies? and in which country?

>>107149710
Mostly if it's tied to the grid. US/Canada of course, who else would fuck it up as much.
From what I've seen, a typical installation *doesn't* work in a blackout (what's the fucking point), has unsustainable incentives for installation, and retarded billing setups due to trying to tie into how old power bills worked (some won't pay you, you just get credits on future bills because they're not set up to pay out).

The correct way to handle payment is that you have a fixed bill just for being hooked up to the grid (covers maintenance), and then transfer money either way depending on usage/generation. Some places in Europe do it that way.
And again, it should fucking work in a blackout. No excuses.

>>107148732
So, I get to ruin the environment even further if I buy solar panels? Honestly, BASED!

>>107149680
>Batteries are illegal in New York...
excuse me what the fuck

>>107149786
the policies stop you from feeding into the grid while theres a blackout. its to protect the workers on the line, they think theres no power and act accordingly. its the same where i live (with my solar) and its set up in such a way that there isnt any feed in to the grid, basically it still works during a blackout and its totally legal. obviously though i only get access to a small amount of power im used to so it just keeps the fridge running and not much more (the voltage drops too much otherwise, its inevitable)
anyway youre annoyed at both physics and safety

>>107149827
>Mar 25, 2024
So who paid for it?

>>107148886
The infrastructure is already there and extremely optimized. Solar throws a wrench into the mix where the grid has too much energy during times when people are not using much of it, but generates nothing when people actually need it.

>>107149867
if the electricity is free people will find a way to use it, i can promise this
also everyone already knows that solar isnt the sole endgame, the grid will never be 100% solar

>>107148916
>>107149094
>>107149637
>people post things I don't like
>they must be bots!
Hows your first day here from /r/eddit?

>>107149827
>hail storm
some panels are made to protext against them (to some degree). plus nets and other measures exist.

>>107149891
shut the fuck up, you braindead zoomer.

>>107148491
Free energy doesn't exist period. Thermodynamics are a bitch.

>>107150022
Nets will greatly reduce the power solar panels efficiency.

>>107148476 (OP)
Nuclear is better but solar is good, depending on the location it can be great and modern ones can be recycled

>>107150047
use them when the weather requires the use of nets
also, I've read about some tracking systems that have automatic vertical positioning in case a hail might happen

>>107148476 (OP)
Depends on the country, if the resource is abudant then its a good investment. Works for Australia, maybe not so much for Europe.

>>107150153
Australia might have free electricity due to all their solar by like 2030 (this is not a joke they already get 3 hours a day free)

>>107150395
>already
is it 2026 in australia already?

>>107148476 (OP)
>. Are they a scam or are they the future?
They are neither, they are a useful tool to get independence from the grid if you can afford it. It also helps that they have been getting more efficient over the last two decades. I would install solar panels if I owned a home to install them on. Gotta make sure you have a battery system as well though, or else the system is practically pointless.

>>107150395
I'm in Europe and we've had free electricity for years depending on the weather. On a windy day electricity prices are going to be at 0 unless it's really cold. The average price for May and June this year was under 2.5 cents/kWh. The average prices for 2024 July and August were 2 and 1.5 cents/kWh. April and May in 2020 were under 2.5 cents/kWh. During those months there were long stretches where electricity was at <0.01 cents/kWh. In 2023 there were weeks where the average price was under 1 cent/kWh. All thanks to a lot of wind and some solar.

>>107148476 (OP)
If it is not a scam it will proliferate and endure without government intervention.

Relying on a subscription to a constant supply of new fossils is the scam.

>>107148476 (OP)
>solar electricity
gay, retarded, wasteful
>using the sun to do directly useful work
based, amazing, genius

>>107149827
American build quality right there. Here in the Alps we get the proper quality chinesium panels and i've never heard of anyone having damaged panels after hail.

>>107149850
The private insurance company paid the private owner of the solar plant.

>>107148916
It is a fun topic that gets retards all riled up:
thechnofetishists, ametica-haters, people who hate new thing no matter what, various europoor and global south esloids.
It's fun.

>>107148476 (OP)
Why is it always the extremes with you? Why are you so brazenly retarded?

>>107148476 (OP)
>that chair when living in an apartment and share the roof with other people
Is solar not an option in apartment dwellers?

>>107151792
balcony panels are common in Germany

>>107151811
Looks extremely wasteful

>>107148476 (OP)
If you live in Arizona you'd be insane not to get them. If you live in England you'd be throwing your money away.
(I doubt it's actually this simple, I'm waiting to be spoonfed)

>>107150395
>>107151471
Just wait until Sam Altman and Mark Zuckerberg hear about this.

>>107152159
solar panels might produce less power in those areas but they also last a lot longer

>>107152159
I live in the light blue zone and used to work for a solar company.

Typically it was calculated that you'd need 10-12 years for solar + battery to make its money back.

As for being off-grid: The systems we used easily allowed for a single outlet that could be powered directly in the case of a blackout. Your entire house being off-grid is possible, but for most people the cost of setting it up is not worth it in the slightest.

>>107152166
they dont last longer out of the sun. the current record for solar panel lifetime is in california, calendar age hits the panels much harder than the "working" age does

>>107148732
source?
>>107148799
proof?

>>107148476 (OP)
The environmental damage sustained in their creation and their disposal is not offset by the electricity they produce.
The future lies in the atom being SPLIT.
Anything involving atoms being pushed together or literally any other method of generation outside of fossil fuels is a pocket lining scam.

Retard faggots have ruined solar panels with muh green energy bullshit when they're the most based energy source when DYI and installed with battery
>always capture energy to battery
>self consoom
>no longer tied to the grid jew
>no longer tied to AI data center jew increasing prices

>>107152310
the worst people you can imagine wear shoes and pants, are you going to stop wearing shoes or pants? why do you care about these retarded faggots enough to care about their opinion?

>>107152301
>The environmental damage sustained in their creation and their disposal is not offset by the electricity they produce.
Countless careful studies examining the whole supply chain say otherwise

>>107148476 (OP)
There's literally no reason to not get solar roofing for your home if you're comfortable with where you live and don't plan to move for the next decades.

>>107151708
Who then shifted the costs forward to their customers, who shifted it forward to theirs, etc. etc. until eventually it was the consumer paying.

>>107151811
The yield from these suck due to their stupid 90 degree incline level.

>>107152519
Angled version exist too

As more and more people switch to solar, the cost of grid electricity is going to increase. They need people to keep paying to maintain the infrastructure, so this burden is going to be on all of the poor saps who can't afford solar.

>>107152301
Good thing theyre made in china then. Not my country, not my problem

>>107152534
There will come a point where utility companies can no longer charge higher than the cost of the solar systems themselves.
Looking at the TV manufacturing industry, you can get the costs of fabrication way down to $30 per m2, which is 240W with current efficiencies. You can eventually power your whole house for decades for the price of a flagship smartphone.

>>107148476 (OP)
>those roof tiles with that exact ridging
Where in Bulgaria was this picture taken?

>>107152683
>You can eventually power your whole house for decades for the price of a flagship smartphone.
If there's no clouds or no night, sure. You still have to rely on gas and coal for all other times.
Solar generates too much energy during times when people are not using much of it, but generates nothing when people actually need it.

>>107152736
Most energy is consumed during the day when all the factories and offices are running fully manned.

>>107148732
Based. As a coal burner, I've switched to 30kw solar panel and electric vehicles to power my homes and car. Cant wait to smoke out the envirofriendly old coal and gas tards who thinks they're saving the environment.

>>107148491
>The panels and installation isn't free.
>estimated pay off 20 years
>money worth less
>energy companies raise prices
>panels and storage paid off after literally 3 years (Australia)
lol

they works great
got 6 panels and ive cut my electricity bill by half

>>107152736
B
A
T
T
E
R
Y

>>107152736
>he keeps conveniently pretending you can't store solar energy

>>107152795
Not just electrical batteries.
If you have an electric boiler with a water tank you already own a battery.

These things store a fuck load of heat energy, heat it during the day and you'll have enough heat to warm your house during the night.

>>107152534
The cost of electricity is going to decrease. I'm not sure how electricity pricing is done in the US but at least in most of Europe it's based on producers bidding for it. You bid for what price you're willing to sell whatever amount of electricity you have available and the highest cost required to meet expected demand is the price for that time period. So basically you bid what your cost to produce is. Maybe even lower if you really don't want to ramp down production. When you have a bunch of wind and solar farm bidding at negative prices it brings down the cost since the more expensive ways to produce electricity get cut out. Residential solar brings down demand even if it's not sold back to the grid which lowers overall demand and again lowers prices.

Grid infrastructure is paid with your grid hookup payments and from usage you pay to your local utilities company. Many of them don't even produce any electricity themselves. They just take care of the electrical grid.

>>107152310
The gay green version is grid tied solar. The based version is where you just take your ball and leave.

>>107152159
It's colder so while the solar flux is lower the panel efficiency is better. It's not quite as bad as you're making it out to be but you do have to actually sit down and do the numbers.

>>107152310
it's the billions of dollars that the fossil industry put into propaganda over decades that makes you react so violently to any "green" technology in the first place

>>107152845
>fossil industry put into propaganda
What's crazy is they funded the radicals to radicalize everyone against it.
It was the same strategy the democrats had with Trump except the corporations properly estimated what everyone actually thought.

>>107152534
In my country people with solar panels who are connected to the grid get called prosumers and get special taxes. I have avoided getting panels for this reason.

>>107152804
Enjoy spending another $14k just to store it.
Oh and the fact that batteries degrade within 5 years and a serious fire risk. Have you seen EVs catch fire? That shit is fucking brutal and the chemicals a burning battery releases is infinitely more toxic than burning gas or coal.

>>107152831
>The cost of electricity is going to decrease.
with AI data centers eating every kW they can find? Yeah sure.

>>107153036
solar battery systems usually use safe lifepo4 batteries instead of the usual li-ions.

>>107148476 (OP)
>Solar Panels. Are they a scam or are they the future?
Neither, they are the present.

>>107148511
>if you live in the third world they make sense because your upstream energy provider sucks and is incredibly corrupt
Also in Europe many are massively corrupt.

>>107148595
>if they need to be subsidised to make financial sense in your area they're a scam
They are cheap now since the Chinese are desperate to offload huge warehouses full of solar panels. The floor fell out of the market and solar panels are now so cheap that people use them as fences.

>>107148732
>Solar panels are more devastating to the environment than just continuing to use clean coal or natural gas.
Citation needed.

>>107153036
Do you have an electric water heater in your house? If the answer is yes you already have a battery. It doesn't even degrade any faster than if used normally. Also the battery tech used in solar energy batteries isn't usually the same as in cars. Weight and discharge capability aren't nearly as big requirements as they are for cars.

>>107153072
It would go up even more without solar and wind bringing down the price.

>>107148797
>Panels are dirt cheap nowadays and you can install them yourself as long as you get an electrician to hook them up.
Around here you don't need electricians if you keep the voltage at 42 V or below, perhaps up to 48 V.

>>107151687
It is possible to do both, and use water cooling of the PV panel to raise the conversion efficiency.

>>107152159
>If you live in England you'd be throwing your money away.
Electricity has been very expensive in the UK, still is, and Hinkley POint C is a financial disaster.

>>107152247
Deep thermal cycling can also wear pout a panel, mechanically.

>>107152301
>The environmental damage sustained in their creation and their disposal is not offset by the electricity they produce.
Got to have a citation for that one too, chief.

>>107153036
anon, batteries cost about or even less than $80/kWh these days. also, the chinese companies that produce cheap lithium batteries are already selling sodium batteries (that don't catch fire), and they are expecting prices of storage to fall even further.
if you pay $14k for batteries, (You) are the retard.

>>107148476 (OP)
>relatively low price
>low maintenance
>easily scaleable, individials can put up a few panels just as easily as corporations can make massive solar farms
And most importantly, something that everyone shitting on solar seems to forget
>don't need to rely on some goatfuckers on the other side of the planet that want to kill you and everyone you know

>>107153323
>cheap lithium batteries
You really want LiFePo for this. Lithium is for cell phones and robots.
Also I think you're an entire order of magnitude off, at least as of 3 years ago which was when I built my current set up.

why would you need an electrician
you put plug the wires from the panels to your inverter and the wires from your inverter to your electrical panel

>>107148491
>you pay $14K for the privilege.
Some people are able and allowed to DIY. Panels are near 10 cents a Watt now, even batteries are getting cheap.

It's some of the cheapest fencing material available at this point, it's retarded how cheap it is.

>>107153507
>It's some of the cheapest fencing material available at this point, it's retarded how cheap it is.
That is true.
Unfortunately inverters are still quite expensive though.

>>107153571
>Unfortunately inverters are still quite expensive though.
SolarEdge 6kW being sold for 150 Euro here ... it's utterly fucking retarded. The market is totally fucked, they're giving shit away.

Vanadium flow, everyone.

>>107152519
>stupid 90 degree incline level.
It's not necessarily stupid if they catch the evening sun.
Because in northern Europe the evening is when people use the vast majority of their electricity.

Angled like >>107152527 will be more efficient but panels are so cheap now that getting the optimum efficiency isn't too important anymore as long as you can saturate your inverter.

>>107153618
>Down from €929.80
That sounds like a scam, is there something wrong with it?

>>107153656
>De fabriek staat in Israël
Hmmm

>>107151687
how long do these little shits last? I live near the beach in a place that has hard water, and I've seen some fully corroded...
using solar pv panels, while less efficient, can actually be far more convenient in terms of maintenance if you connect them to an electric water tank. you don't need to go to the roof to replace the anode, your roof won't have to be modified to support the heavy tank, etc.

>>107153424
>Also I think you're an entire order of magnitude off
are you talking about batteries? if so, at what price did you buy them? you can buy them from china at those prices... unless you are american, of course. in which case you also have to pay tariffs lmao

>>107153458
electricity is dangerous and can kill you. I'd rather pay an expert to connect the cables to the inverter and to the mains. the rest can be DIY'd, though

>>107153571
>inverters are still quite expensive
why do people keep repeating lies lmao
you can get a 6kW Growatt inverter with support for 2 strings for about $800

>>107148476 (OP)
obscenely expensive in my shithole
which is ironic considering the climate here is perfect for solar panels
but extremely corrupt government, criminally abusive taxes and near-recession economy make it inviable

>>107153795
>electricity is dangerous and can kill you. I'd rather pay an expert to connect the cables to the inverter and to the mains. the rest can be DIY'd, though
I can only be an uncoordinated spaz on the roof once. For the electrical work I can just take my time and use my >100 IQ.

>>107148476 (OP)
we're entering winter and at winter its dark literally 24/7 where i live so im leaning towards yes
would take me 40 years to pay them off with the two months of sun we have each summer.

>>107148595
there are many indirect subsidies for solar.
If you already have an existing gas or coal based grid, it will be very expensive to build the new infrastructure for a solar based grid. You need to transport energy much further to equalize differences in light in different areas. You also need to invest very very heavily in storage and/or built very expensive peaker plants (expensive because they only work 5% of the time)

>>107153860
>I can only be an uncoordinated spaz on the roof once
for now. try doing that once you become an old boomer.

>For the electrical work I can just take my time and use my >100 IQ.
sure. (You) can. not everyone else can or is willing to risk their lives to save a few dollars.

>>107153877
For an individual sure, for some northern shithole running on generators, they could earn it back in a couple years. Just ship in an entire container of bifacials and set them up vertical.

Way cheaper than feeding the generators.

>>107152831
that doesn't make sense to me. Surely, intermittently producing electricity (only during cloudy days) will be more expensive than being able to produce 24/7
Either they'll charge horrendous rates during cloudy days to offset the idle time or government will subsidize these utilities. Either way, we'll pay for it somehow

>>107152310
Based and offgrid solar battery bank pilled. I do this, and it works like a charm. It makes you think about your appliance use and what DC alternatives you can find, for anything else just put on an inverter if needed.

>>107154024
dont care, you would have to be retarded to mount solar panels up in a place where its dark 24/7 for months, even if they were free.
you'd still have to pay for battery, the electricians cost for mounting it to the grid, the gridjew probably wants ekstra rent for your battery etc
then you'd have to deal with the fact that outside temps reach -40c/-40f sometimes which probably fucks them up too.
not to mention having to go brush snow off them every morning, fuck all that shit.

>>107153458
Because in first world countries these things require an electrician to at least check the work. While doing electrical work is quite simple it's to prevent retards from burning their house down or electrocuting their kid because they fucked up something.

>>107154062
>dont care, you would have to be retarded to mount solar panels up in a place where its dark 24/7 for months, even if they were free.
Diesel/propane ain't free either. They'd use the solar simply to save on fuel.
>you'd still have to pay for battery
Those are getting so cheap that simply using them to save on fuel would also make sense, yes.
>not to mention having to go brush snow off them every morning
Vertical.

>>107154084
if it made sense to get it, i would see houses with that shit mounted on them. i never see solar panels anywhere here.
its pretty simple, really.

>>107153877
I'm in the Arctic and the payback time is around 20 years. Or was when I got mine. Now it would be even less. Sure, from now until February it's going to be fuck all production, but from March onwards the production is pretty good. The panels also operate better in cold weather, late winter/early spring production is often better than early summer.

>>107154128
>payback time is around 20 years
your battery will wear out in 5, retard.

>>107154043
If they start bidding at higher prices other companies will just undercut them. Opening the gates at a hydro plant doesn't actually cost anything. Running a gas or coal plant pretty much depends entirely on the price of the fuel. Building industrial scale batteries is really simple if you already have a dam. Just pump water up to the reservoir with free electricity when solar/wind is overproducing and then generate electricity with it during nights and when it's not windy.

>>107148476 (OP)
yes
no

>>107154179
Don't have a battery, retard. Excess goes to the grid. I get scammed slightly in the process but it's still enough to basically not pay at all for electricity during the summer. And I try to minimize overproduction because they scam you for selling it back to the grid. Couldn't build off grid battery system in a place where the sun doesn't rise for extended time.

>>107154119
I see houses with solar all over the place

Looking at how my power bill NEEDS to triple so Amazon can power their data centers, I'm seriously looking into panels. Idgaf if I get paid by the grid or not, it's strictly for personap energy

>>107152788
>estimated pay off 20 years
Maybe in some tropical desert. In the UK the estimated pay off is: never.
Installing solar panels increases the value of a house by exactly 0%, so panels only make sense for narrowboats.

>>107148511
>>107153122
these so much
in my european shithole, you should only consider solar if you're off grid on a farm, otherwise you'll be raped in the ass by (((fees))), and you'll never get money back for surplus power like advertised

>>107152788
>Australia
so when the installer showed up did you have to do that little mandatory prayer to brown people or do you do it after you settle up or what

>>107148797
>and you can install them yourself
not in europe you most definitely can't lmao
you're not even allowed to buy a mini-split unless you already have a (((loicensed))) installer in tow, I'm pretty sure solar is the same

>>107154179
You (((big nuke))) shills are pathological liars

>>107153860
When you sell your house around here, you will have to provide documentation for all the work done, including electrical work. Missing documentation will raise major red flags and you might have to get it certified by a real electrician.

>>107154234
>Excess goes to the grid.
Grim. In the UK this makes no sense since the price is very close to zero or even actually zero.

>>107154234
>Excess goes to the grid

cuck

>>107149798
Well long story short, fires caused by electrical batteries don't go out easily and there was a fire or two caused by cheap chink electric scooter batteries, and so the fire department said no more lithium batteries.

>>107152683
That's not how it works, you still have to pay for installation inverters and possibly batteries and that will never be cheaper and affordable for the average america unless they take out more loans

>>107154644
So why are batteries more prone to fires in NY than elsewhere?
>and there was a fire or two caused by cheap chink electric scooter batteries
Two in the entire NY?? Long shot: there were more car fires than that in the same span of time. And why let cheapo batteries destroy the market for others?

>>107148966
Given their weather, this seems incredibly stupid.

>>107154777
And you’re the expert, of course.

>>107148476 (OP)
I spent €7500 to save €400 this year
Only 18 years left until RoI!

>>107149094
>odd "controversial" answers
The things that certain posters say are so dumb that it almost feels like they own an electricity company or sell oil.

>>107148476 (OP)
>Are they a scam
No they're not, but they don't make sense everywhere.
They are a good idea on the scale of a single building like a factory, or a villa somewhere off grid.
But you're not going to have an entire country powered by nothing but solar, obviously.
>are they the future?
No, but they will be a part of the future.
Especially in the third world where you can't depend on the government to maintain a working electrical grid.

>>107155085
>>107154669
>ROI
This
Where I live in the midwest, so with that amount of sun it would take approximately $20,000 dollars worth of solar panels to power my house. That doesnt count batteries which would be an additional appropriately $25,000. Ive never seen a grid power bill higher than $250 and many months is like $130, so the ROI on solar panels just isnt there. In my area, you would be better off pursing geothermal hvac which would be cheaper and have way better ROI since you can use it 24/7 unlike the sun.

>>107155150
People need to start installing rainwater collection systems. I ain’t paying for water, it falls from the sky.

>>107155241
So how do you avoid being infected through bird droppings?

>>107155229
>$20,000 dollars worth of solar panels to power my house.
I can get 250 585Wp panels for that ...

>>107155241
>rainwater collection
watch your government outlaw that shit as soon as they catch wind of it

>>107155407
the roof is protected by bird killing wind turbines

>>107149832
All systems disallow backfeeding in a blackout. Grid-tied solar wouldn't work otherwise.
What's inexcusable is that they aren't set up to disconnect from the grid and continue powering your own house during a blackout.
I can see it in systems with no battery bank, where fluctuations make off-grid power hard to manage, but any proper installation will have at least a small buffer to mitigate that.

>>107155241
rainwater is probably just as polluted as saltwater near pajeetlands and chinklands at this point

>>107155229
>Where I live in the midwest, so with that amount of sun it would take approximately $20,000 dollars worth of solar panels to power my house
how about you stop paying scammers lmao. design and install the system yourself, and get a electrician friend to connect the cables and sign the paperwork

>>107155241
I've heard that this shit is illegal in some places lmao

>>107155407
It depends on what you’re going to use the water for. If you’re going to water the garden it probably only needs minimum filtration, and if you’re going to drink it it needs a filtration system.

Test

>>107155035
Yes. thanks for the acknowledgement

>>107154185
>If they start bidding at higher prices other companies will just undercut them.
>Running a gas or coal plant pretty much depends entirely on the price of the fuel.
We are talking about peaker plants for times when solar is down. These run only at low utilization and thus produce very expensive energy.
>Building industrial scale batteries is really simple if you already have a dam. Just pump water up to the reservoir with free electricity when solar/wind is overproducing and then generate electricity with it during nights and when it's not windy.
at least in europe, almost everywhere where it is feasible to build a hydro plant already has one

>>107155491
Automatic transfer switches aren't free.

Since labour costs 10k$ before anything is installed in the US, I guess they might as well throw it in though.

>>107154644
>Net metering
How does this scale up when 100% of the roofs have solar panels and everyone is producing electricity at the same time and getting paid (in the form of rebates) for injecting it into the grid (with nowhere near enough people consuming)?

>>107148476 (OP)
My electricity bill is zero. ROI in 3 years for me.

If you don't know what ROI is please leave. This board is for the intelligent.

>>107148476 (OP)
you will spend more money on the panels than you will make back using them

>>107153507
>Some people are able and allowed to DIY. Panels are near 10 cents a Watt now, even batteries are getting cheap.
Except you're not allowed to hook up your DIY crap to the regular power unless you live in a literal shithole without any regulations. So unless you only use power when the sun is out or are willing to spend thousands more on battery and still have no power during winter yeah you're fucked and these things will never pay for themselves

>>107155937
>This board is for the intelligent.
Since when?

>>107148966
Isn't the UK in a housing crisis?

>>107155937
break that down for us, including where you live because unless you live on the sun that makes no sense

>>107155966
>Except you're not allowed to hook up your DIY crap to the regular power unless you live in a literal shithole without any regulations.
A place where everything has to be regulated is just a different kind of shithole.

Here in the Netherlands everything behind the meter is between you and the insurance. Even if there's a fire, the burden of proof is on them to prove that the install was shoddy. The country is fucked in most ways, but sometimes they get something right.

>>107154757
Don't confuse the casus belli with the actual cause.

>>107155966
>Except you're not allowed to hook up your DIY crap to the regular power
Why even lie about something so blatantly false?

>>107155229
I'm in Ireland. I self-installed a 4kWp non-export setup backed by 22 big LFP batteries offering about 12kWh of storage with a conservative voltage swing (double that if I wanted to cook them). I do really well in the summer, but I can't catch enough photons to keep the batteries going past dinner this time of year. More panels would help.

>>107149786
>The correct way to handle payment is that you have a fixed bill just for being hooked up to the grid (covers maintenance), and then transfer money either way depending on usage/generation. Some places in Europe do it that way.
It was basically like this here in The Netherlands.
Problem is the grid isn't designed to work in reverse so the grid operator had to install extra equipment without getting payed.
And everybody likes to pull energy from the grid in winter and push energy to the grid in summer and then expect to pay €0.

This resulted in the grid operator running out of money and now the grid is at maximum capacity in many places so we can't build new homes or industry there.

>>107156644
>Problem is the grid isn't designed to work in reverse so the grid operator had to install extra equipment without getting payed.
They keep saying that but how true is it really? And in Spain the solar power suppliers were not allowed to use the grid stabilizers for reasons never explained.
Around here, the grid staff got their jobs thanks to party membership cards and probably don't know the differece beween + and -.

>>107152826
>you'll have enough heat to warm your house during the night.
Unless your house is thermally insulated so much you're suffocating from CO2 poisoning, a single water tank won't last even a moderately warm evening. Those radiators on your wall are designed to dump heat from the water and are really good at it for obvious reasons. If there's any air exchange with the outside, you have to reheat all that new air and unless you're using electrical heaters on your air vents costing you a lot in electricity, you're going to dump all that hot water tank heat in a couple of hours.
Renewables are too specific for their use cases. When you have to build out for the stuff they aren't good at all you really achieve is learning that the alternatives are better for the general case and you'd have been cheaper not to go solar.

>>107152845
>it's the billions of dollars that the fossil industry put into propaganda over decades that makes you react so violently to any "green" technology in the first place
In my case I was all for solar+EV until I got first hand experience with them and realised that there was no pay off period that made them make sense. Take the money you would have spent on renewables and dump it in a tax efficient stonks ETF wrapper and by the time you'd have reached the break even point on your panels you'll have one helluva balance in your account that more than offsets the shit electricity prices from your pozzed utilities. EV was different in that they *could* work, but they self sabotaged and your Teslas and competitors are worse than they could be, at enormous cost and poor operating costs.

>>107156713
>suffocating from CO2 poisoning
LOL at making stuff up

>>107155937
>My electricity bill is zero. ROI in 3 years for me.
I imagine that means you live somewhere with net metering because non-subsidised metering never breaks even. Where I am the metering is based on spot pricing which means when the sun shines the buy back price goes to nothing, offsetting the bill by fuck all.
We thought about getting batteries but the costs are so high the break even would be too far in the future. The naive take where you just add up the cost of the system and amortise it over X years doesn't actually work out. Every 4-5 years you'll have to replace inverters and chargers because THOSE are the parts that break and catch fire. The panels will mostly last apart from occasional dead shorts, and the battery will last but will need the occasional repair when the smart logic board lets the magic smoke out due to being chinesium garbage. When you factor in all the costs, it just extends the break even point out into infinity.

>>107156797
>>suffocating from CO2 poisoning
>LOL at making stuff up
It was hyperbole. You can't seal a house enough to die from CO2 poisoning meaning there will ALWAYS be air exchange with the outside meaning you will ALWAYS be heating up cold air. It's to point out the absurd nonsense people advocating for these solutions require to make their math work out.

>>107156011
What isn't under crisis in the UK?

>>107156713
>Unless your house is thermally insulated so much you're suffocating from CO2 poisoning, a single water tank won't last even a moderately warm evening.
A modern home could probably kill you from oxygen deprivation if you kept the door closed long enough. That's what heat recovery ventilation is for though.

Lets say you need 5kW of heating, two insulated IBCs should get you through the night.

>>107148511
>>107148773
americans aren't first world

Roof mount: Scam
Ground mount: Future

What if you own a few acres of empty land and want to farm solar energy?
is there a way to cover a lot of land with cheap panels?

>>107148476 (OP)
They can be good supplements to other energy sources like nuclear energy to help reduce overall energy costs, but they are not a good primary energy source.
The ideal setup is primarily nuclear energy, supplemented by hydroelectric and solar energy where that makes sense in order to lower costs, with LNG and coal on standby when additional capacity is needed that can't be provided by the other sources, since they can easily be ramped up and down quickly.

>>107156879
the hard part will probably be trying to find someone that wants to buy that power.
maybe if you're near one of those AI datacenters?

>>107156966
large grid energy storage is cheaper than buying extremely expensive nuclear plants

>>107157103
That is completely irrelevant.
Nuclear energy is safer and more reliable than solar and it's not even close. It also has less environmental impact, and you don't have to replace the whole plant every 20 years.
Solar power is not viable as a primary energy source, and anyone who says it is is an idiot.

>>107157132
delusional

>>107157132
yeah except you're not allowed to have a nuclear power plant on your land in most cases, but you're allowed to have solar power panels.

>>107152795
Plus you can get one of those ice cooler things that'll cool/heat your house. There are numerous energy saving tech stuff now a days that you can cut your bill massively. Especially with the subsidies that happen.

Unfortunately, America is in a century of humiliation right now so...

>>107157184
sorry but we need to keep the dead-end coal industry going because the niggers working there are too dumb to get another job

>>107157159
You can, actually, and it would be ideal if we got small reactors that could go in houses or in neighborhoods and things like that.

>>107157204
none of these small reactor ever managed to produce enough energy to be get a return on your investment
nuclear power only works out in larger scale

the only use case for them is things like nuclear subs

>>107156879
There is no money in it. Great for tech bros who want to go off grid as a hobby though.

>>107157220
Totally incorrect. Your realistic options for cheap, reliable energy are nuclear or LNG/coal. End of story. If you don't want LNG or coal, you opt for nuclear.

I have solar. Battery bank by BYD and fronius inverter. I haven't paid a bill since I got it, I've earnt money from Ergon myself. only problem is I generate too much energy that goes to Ergon that I get 5c for and they charge someone for closer to 30c.

It's fucking nice to have a transformer blow in the neighbourhood at night and still be watching tv in aircon while the neighbours have to drag out small generators that can't even power their garage door.

>>107157252
Solar can be cheaper than running natural gas power plants, like in Australia.

>>107157204
no you can't actually because its easy to weaponize it and no country will let you.

>>107157252
Nope, you just have no clue what you're talking about.

>>107157255
use the extra energy to make hydrogen at home for fun and profit

>>107157300
I'm a hard nosed diesel user (because full electric cars just aren't practical for FNQ and I drive remote for work), but I've even considered getting a Tesla just so I'm using as much as I can and stopping the greedy power companies from milking state funding and people's pockets.

>>107157358
I was thinking more of using the hydrogen for loud explosion to annoy your neighbors

>>107157358
why don't use the electricity to make more money?

>>107157558
because our power company has no competition and is slowly making the returns lower and admin fees higher to avoid people making money back (like we are) as they cry poor. They also cap each day's profits after 5kW, and since I'm sending roughly 30kW to the grid for free it's going to waste.

>monopolies are bad.

>>107157586
>30kW
that's a lot for residential. you should set up a proper company and sell via that instead.

>>107155931
It doesn't, that's why NY is one of few places that still has it, and the writing is on the wall that it's gonna be phased out soon, they stated that everyone that that has in it now will be grandfathered in until 2042 but soon they will trash it and first move onto buying it back from you at a lower rate and then a lower rate and then a lower rate until they have enough and they tell you to fuck off

The progression of a state like California going from NEM 1.0 to NEM 3.0 is basically how it's gonna be for everywhere else eventually.

That said 100% of roofs are not going to have panels, I can't really see it being an issue any time soon since there is probably way more people and power usage in the city than there are roofs to put solar panels on.

>>107157268
Maybe when it's massively subsidized. Even then, so what?
>>107157273
You absolutely can, and "weaponizing" uranium fuel takes way more infrastructure than the vast majority of people could ever afford, not to mention such an installation would be visible from space and absolutely every country with satellite imaging would know exactly what you were doing the whole several years it would take for you to produce weapons-grade nuclear material in a useful quantity.
>>107157287
Solar energy isn't reliable. Get over it.

>>107157674
AI allows you to weaponize uranium easily I believe because according to anthropic I think they said AIs allowed people to make bioweapons 2.5x faster than using the internet.
AI is very creative at creating infrastructure

>>107157700
>see "AI" in a post
>immediately assume whatever follows is going to be the most retarded thing I've ever read
>get proven right
Every single time.

>>107157700
that is a massive nonsense, guys you need to stop believing all shit that ai says
you need enrichment facilities to weaponize uranium, bio is not straightforward at all, and ai doesnt do shit on infrastructure. like those are all big industrial scientific projects

>>107157674
>Maybe when it's massively subsidized.
No, it's just cheaper than the fuel for running a power plant in Australia.
>Even then, so what?
So they put down a lot of solar panels.

>>107157752
>No, it's just cheaper than the fuel
Because you're having to buy the fuel form another country. If you had your own industry for extracting and refining the fuel so you didn't have to import all of it from the Middle East or China, it would be cheaper for you.
>So they put down a lot of solar panels
And then a shitload of batteries so you don't lose power at night. And if you have a cloudy week you're fucked. And in 20-25 years you'll have to replace all of it.

>>107157674
>Solar energy isn't reliable. Get over it.
what the fuck does this have to do with the ROI of small nuclear reactors?

show a single actually profitable small reactor or shut your retarded cock hole

>>107157782
What part of >>107157252 was about small nuclear reactors?
Can you read?

>>107152845
energy is solved practically overnight with nuclear but because retarded commies fucked up once we cant have it. Anyone who is for "green" energy and isnt frothing at the mouth for nuclear is a retard or someone trying to make money using a grift. Lithium batteries/solar panels are absolutely fucking detrimental to the environment and are just kicking the can down the road so long as we can keep strip mining africa

>>107157796
look at what the post replies to you illiterate nigger

Can't speak for any other country or state, but Qld in Aus had a huge push for home solar with large rebates that every man and their dog used to get panels. But batteries weren't at a functional level yet and so now the roofs are littered with older panels that provide no benefits during cloud coverage and no use from the late afternoon. If you don't get the battery with the system, you're not gaining anything other than a bill for rising power prices and a loan to repay. Solar can be worth it, you gotta treat the solar as an investment and asset value for the home otherwise its easy to look at a 30k loan and bawk.

>>107157811
Yeah energy was totally solved when we started building nuclear reactors, no more wars for oil or anything happened afterwards

Isn't there something about Thorium being use able over plutonium for better Nuclear power generation but since Thorium is harder to weaponise its not pursued for use?

>>107157906
nah, thorium is an absolute meme
expensive to build for very little power

>>107157906
Thorium produces less radioactive waste and can't really have a meltdown, but it doesn't produce plutonium as a byproduct which is used for weapons. It's also more expensive right now even though it's more abundant because the infrastructure is built around uranium.

>>107157891
>ill own this guy by being a snarky and dishonest faggot

>>107157891
Europe was much better off with regard to energy before they started going full retard and shutting down their nuclear plants. France at least kept their sanity in that regard.

>>107157928
>but it doesn't produce plutonium as a byproduct which is used for weapons.
Why does that matter?
Is it because nuclear can only exist through massive government subsidies like military spending?

>>107157939
All energy production is regulated and controlled to some degree by the government..

>>107157938
France's power situation is one of the worst.
Germany literally has to export power to them cause they constantly have to take their nuclear plants off-grid.

You clearly don't know the first thing about Europe's grid.

>>107157955
Yet you retards only complain when solar gets a few bread crumbs from the government.

>>107157957
Germany's energy costs are much higher than France's and several times that of the US. UK is in a similar position. They were fine until Merkel came along and got rid of the nuclear plants and the LNG and tried to go full solar and wind, and when that idea predictably crashed and burned they ended up relying on Russian LNG.

>>107157964
I complain when retards try to make it the primary source of energy, because it does not fit that role. It is not reliable enough to be the primary means of energy production, and there's no two ways about that.

>>107157967
>They were fine until Merkel came along
lol no
Germany's energy prices were always much higher than the US
And the prices have little to do with energy costs.
German energy providers are constantly increasing prices while also posting record profits every year.

>>107157992
Yeah bro, it's just an unbreakable cartel in an industry controlled by the government, in a country that regularly tells foreign businesses how they need to design their products if they want to sell them in Germany.
It is an undeniable fact that Germany's energy costs skyrocketed when then tried to shift everything to "renewables".

>>107157978
>try to make it the primary source of energy
stop fighting ghosts, no one wants or seeks anything near this
even tesla will suggest solar roofs with around 50% expected capacity with their installations
solar/wind/hydro/geothermal/nuclear with various storage all depending on regional factors are the obvious path forward and decoupling yourself, your region, your country from being reliant on the global oil market is so clearly such a massive benefit for everyone involved (except for 3rd world oil producers)

>>107148491
they still can make 10% of the maximum output stated on the product label in completely overcast conditions. They're not useless in less than ideal situations, it's just something to consider when sizing your system.

>>107158010
it's a government controlled by the industry, sheeple

>>107158039
There are absolutely people who believe solar should be the primary source of energy and think nuclear energy is a bad investment for one reason or another.
Also wind is a terrible source and should be discounted altogether outside of certain specific scenarios. These massive turbine farms are a blight and should never have been built.

>>107158082
>and think nuclear energy is a bad investment for one reason or another.
You mean like every single private investor?
None of them touch nuclear unless they get massive government subsidies.

>>107158104
No, I mean a lot of green types and politicians. I'm not even talking about investment, I'm talking about there are a lot of people who oppose nuclear in principle.

>>107158126
What's wrong with agreeing with all the private investors who looked into the financials of building and running nuclear plants?

>>107158141
They don't know anything about that, and that has nothing to do with why they oppose it.
If you want to get down to it, LNG and coal are really the only ones that can stand on their own financially. And I wouldn't be opposed to using LNG primarily, but a lot of people don't like that option.

>>107153134
>Deep thermal cycling
that is also calender aging, it happens even if left in storage never being hooked up

>>107148491
I have a bunch of used panels I got for free. They generate about 7kw

>>107158155
>I want my energy to be a subscription service where I constantly have to buy more fuel to keep the lights on
Go away, Ivan.

>>107148732
>clean coal

>>107154644
Lifepo4 and sodium aren't even comparable to lto

>>107149680
>Batteries are illegal in New York...
LMFAO what a retarded place.

>>107158104
>You mean like every single private investor?
asinine regulation is one reason why it takes a decade for the fucking things to get built
>by code xx.xx walls must be made to be 200mm thick
>work for 5 years
>actually now its 210mm thick, redo it lmao
there's always room for improvements but anyone who's ever worked with anything technical knows some regulations are made from blood and others are often some busybody doing their best to keep their job while fucking over literally everybody else and causing these kinds of projects to become permanent money sinks. euro leaders for fucking 10+ years have been told to their face that they need to start looking hard into nuclear/gas/literally anything other than dogshit "renewable" energy
>nah, itl take 10 years to build, thats too long
now its 10 years later and the uk and germany have some of, if not the highest energy prices in the world right now. these retards would fail the "how would you feel if you didnt eat breakfast" test. Granted, i am pessimistic and think its on purpose, but still. it shows absolutely 0 planning for the future /if/ the plan is at some point to be self relient on energy.

>>107153134
>Around here you don't need electricians if you keep the voltage at 42 V or below, perhaps up to 48 V.
I prefer to keep a relatively low voltage array and use an MPPT boost control *up* to my battery voltage.

Of course that won't work above a killowatt or two but it means you get enough power to do most things on all but the absolute most overcast days whereas a buck converter would quit working pretty fast.

i have a stupid bitch question

why go through this bullshit when you could just
>get a plan with free energy at night (or day or weekend or whenever you get the point)
>buy batteries
>charge them at night
>offset your non-free energy use

>>107148476 (OP)
They are the future considering eventually the grid will be down from a 'terror' attack or some other global catastrophe.
You can enjoy electricity while everyone else is living in the dark. Just ensure you have enough batteries.

>>107150395
Will never happen. We still have some of the highest energy prices in the world and they'll never drop even if we go to 100% renewable.

>>107158560
>get a plan with free energy
No such thing exists.
Tiered rates where it's cheaper at certain times are a thing, but absolutely not free. You're unlikely to make up the cost difference in efficiency losses, and are just better off shifting power-hungry tasks to those hours instead of storing it.
That system serves to incentivize spreading out demand to better match generation capacity.

>>107158682
may i introduce you to texas anon?
free energy plans exist here as long as your willing to pay more during the non free times

that said
the energy charge rate for daytime use is prison tier ass rape at around twice as expensive as the plan im on currently so i 100% do not recommend doing this idea
these plans exist only as retard bait

>>107158560
Ah yeah why didn't I think of that just hop on the free energy at night plan of course

>>107153424
LiFePo is still lithium. It still has a risk of exploding.

>>107148476 (OP)
A total scam.
Solar panels can't generate energy at night or when it's cloudy.
>get a battery then durrr
Major fire risk and you have to replace them every 5 years.

Natural gas and Clean coal cannot be beat. Nuclear is a trap because it requires so much government subsidies that it's not worth my taxes, also nuclear waste.

For those who think solar is a scam, enjoy not being able to watch your backlog of anime and porn or play vidya when the grid goes down because of some kike false flag.

>>107156070
>>107156815
nta but have you retard tried making a list of things that make a solar PV system, looking for how much each part costs, how much an electrician would charge to connect the cables and how much some random retard would charge for installing the panels + mount in your roof (assuming you won't DIY)? try doing that and then compare the numbers to what you pay for electricity.

>>107155966
you most probably CAN DIY everything except the final connections. and how much do you think an electrician would charge for that?

>>107156321
>More panels would help.
try using mirrors...

>>107158833
Diesel generator is a lot better for outages.
Outages usually happen in heavy storms so solar wouldn't be generating anything anyways.

>>107158791
what do you think nuclear waste is anon

>>107158838
I have in fact done serious shopping and price checking, which is why I don't have solar panels. I might consider replacing my HVAC with geothermal but solar is off the table.

>>107158750
Me, a Californian, paying 30% more than your prison ass rape tier.
I think that free nights plan would work if someone had an EV. Just use normal electricity during the day and start charging after 8pm.

>>107148482
>just add 30k to your mortgage and a huge fire hazard to your roof bro
>It'll pay itself back in 20yrs

>>107158750
Well I stand fucking corrected. Didn't think a utility would be foolish enough to offer that.
I guess it must be extra predatory to make up for people trying to cheese the system.

>>107158842
But what about long term outage? Diesel only has a life of 1-2 years even using stabilisers and following proper storage methods. And in such a situation the diesel/petrol is better used for vehicles.

>>107158929
In a long term outage, all your solar panels would be stolen at gunpoint.

>>107158750
coming completely out of context, but isn't texas the state where people froze to death some years ago and energy (and fuel, and water) became really fucking expensive for like a week?

>>107158866
>I have in fact done serious shopping and price checking
ok, cool. tell me prices in your country for
1. a ~500W solar panel
2. a, say, 6kW inverter
3. a 5kWh battery
4. roof mount for 3 panels
I bought some of the cheapest of these things by myself in my country and I'm far from expert. I simply copied a "kit" some solar company offered, calculated what it'd cost to buy each part and ended up buying the parts separately from the another company. I know their prices by memory.

>>107158949
Would be around $14k here in America

>>107158949
>but isn't texas the state where we dont winterize our shit
yes.

from what i remember energy got expensive for a bit but fuel and water really didnt really become more expensive
and any extra costs i spent at the time has been 'refunded' by now since fuel is getting incredibly cheap
like
>$2.40 a gallon, RVTURN to $20 for a full tank
cheap

>>107158956
anon... I asked you for itemized prices. also, "$14k" doesn't mean shit. how much power? how many panels? how much energy storage?

do you even know what kWh means?

>>107158560
Product active.

>>107158177
Russia and the Middle East are not the only sources of crude oil. That's been the case for decades because stupid western governments allowed it to be so, but we can get our own resources within our own countries.

>>107158949
>>107158956
I dont have the specifics in front of me. But I do live in the midwest, so factoring in my lack of sun the quotes were around $20,000 for the panels installed. Batteries were an additional $25,000 installed. This was for full off-grid replacement of my power needs in an 1800sq foot home, including a bit of over estimating my usage for future proofing. Something less than full replacement would been more like >>107158956 give or take how much power I wanted.

>>107158981
I use roughly 7000 kWh a year power in my home, but that doesn't include gas heat so. Also there are other factors involved with installing panels on the roof like putting a new roof under them etc that factor into the total cost of install.

>>107158842
I see why you would think that, but my home is in a seasonal cyclone zone and even on dark rainy days I still generate enough from my 10kW system to fill my batteries in four hours while also running everything on in the house. I never thought it would be this good myself, but the way panels are wired in series now is pretty cool and means they're alot more capable then I would have given credit for.
>>107158879
I paid the 30k and it immediately added that value to my house, so unlike rent and dead money, youre paying for something that 'potentially' increases the value of your home and therefore 'potentially' not losing anything. Not trying to change your mind or anything because you can't do that over a text box, but there are reasons as to why someone would at least consider installing a solar system.

>inb4 hurr durr greeny

>>107159076
>it immediately added that value to my house
you check with your home owners insurance first?
they might not cover your roof now

>>107148476 (OP)
Depends on if you have net metering. If you do, they will pay for themselves within a couple years. If you don't, you need to get a good price for selling back to the grid. If you can't sell back to the grid, they're worthless unless you have a home battery and live somewhere with decent sun in the winter.

>>107159056
>I dont have the specifics in front of me. But I do live in the midwest, so factoring in my lack of sun the quotes were around $20,000 for the panels installed. Batteries were an additional $25,000 installed
how much do you think you could have saved if you had bought the materials yourself, hired some rando to install the panels on top of the roof + mount, had an electrician check and connect the panels to the inverter, and sign whatever papers you needed?

>>107159189
I own my house, I am not interested in shoddy/cheap work. I want things dont right and I have no problem paying for that. In this case, it would cost too much, so I have pursued solar and further. Geothermal would have much more ROI where I live, which I am looking into. That being said, Ive never seen a utility bill higher than $250 and most of them around $130 so its pretty hard to justify a captial expense for "free" or minimal utilities. Again I emphasize this is because of where I live, if I lived in Arizona it would be a completely different story.

>>107159110
Fair call but we got re-evaluated and we're all covered, but its nice of you to suggest it incase I had missed it, cheers cobba

>>107150395
>Australia might have free electricity....
>brb all solar panels made by China
>brb all batteries made by China
>brb all upgraded grid infra owned by (((private capital)))
>brb energy prices going up year on year
>brb more and more manufacturing closing due to cost of energy
it's all by design to kill ALL local manufacturing and make countries debt ridden and more reliant than ever on (((globalization))).
Australia could very easily and cheaply transition to nuclear if it had a 50 year transition plan from coal to nuclear instead of going full retard on muh wind and solar.

>>107159247
>I am not interested in shoddy/cheap work
lol, you are getting shoddy work no matter what. but you are also overpaying for it :^)
if you did some research, you have noticed how much you are overpaying for the equipment itself. also, panels are more efficient in colder areas. finally, you could literally get more energy from the panels with mirrors.
you people are fucking lazy and retarded. and complain about the dumbest shit. and then post your worthless opinions in forums like this...
but, whatever floats your boat.

>>107159371
>>brb all upgraded grid infra owned by (((private capital)))
That private capital also largely owned by China too btw :^)

>>107148476 (OP)
Depends on context. Middle of nowhere living off the grid? They're great. For a power company that could run nuclear, natural gas, etc? Scam.

They're fine but it's like GPUs getting better every year, except it's a much bigger commitment. The longer you wait, the better the whole thing gets, but also, if you wait too long then the old ones could've paid themselves off already.

There's not really gonna be a perfect time to jump in. I'd say if you can afford it and deal with the temporary inconvenience, it's worth it already

>>107158211
You can't even have pocket knives, tazers, or pepper spray in New York. So now it's a very safe place.

>>107155457
It's already illegal in a lot of places.

>>107159650
Solar Systems are cheaper than an RTX 5090 in most countries already.

>>107159767
>>107155457
Rainwater collection should be outlawed because you're using up extra sewerage without paying for it.
Same as solar, it should be banned because it's making the grid extremely unstable thanks to all that excess in inconvenient times.

>>107152159
America has so many unfair natural geographic benefits and advantages, it's insane

>>107154043
In some areas they have optional time period incentives, where electricity is cheaper at low demand times and more expensive during peak times. You can choose to deal with that or just pay a steady but more expensive rate.

>>107157197
Fossil fuel energy production has the massive advantage of variable selective output. Too much or too little on the grid causes problems.

Wind and solar changes a lot, nuclear is very consistent, only the fossil fuels can go up or down as needed, so even with a lot of green stuff they're still necessary.

Two possible solutions are variable nuclear, which to my knowledge only one experimental one exists right now, and the other option is vastly improved, particularly more efficient, batteries. Both of these will happen eventually, but we're not there quite yet.