>>17756059 (OP)
Angels came down and bred with man to create the race of God which has the spirit sewn into it. That fall was redeemed by the Son so that all of God is united again into one body for their salvation and dominion over the Father's creation.

The trinity is as simple as it can be while retaining the essential truth.

>>17756059 (OP)
lemme try

God (law)
Spirit (move to/move away)
Son (body)

you can unite all three, or have each separated

>>17756071
Wrong. The race of God descends from Adam. The descendants of the angels are an abomination. There's no salvation for them.

>>17756073
No, I disagree.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Lz9Rwa-eIgE

>>17756076
You are, as always, incorrect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz9Rwa-eIgE

>>17756059 (OP)
It's complicated because it's theological patchwork to explain all the inconsistencies the church was having on the exact nature of Jesus and his relation to god. To many monks and heretics were pointed out problems, they hoped Trinitarianism would make it all go away. Just take the Arian pill anon

>>17756103
Idiot

It's beer.

>>17756087
There is no salvation for the sons of the fallen.

>>17756139
That isn't want the Bible says.

>>17756059 (OP)
Your brain might be worthless, then. Just a thought, even though you're too stupid to process it.

>>17756059 (OP)
And you expected the Creator of existence itself, an inherently complex metaphysical topic, to be simple and easily digestible?

>>17755218

It's really simple. The doctrine of the Trinity is the compilation of three biblical doctrines, which together are identical to the Trinity, and none of which can be denied without denying God's revelation of Himself in scripture.
1. There is absolutely only one God
2. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God
3. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit have eternally existed together as three distinct persons
If you believe this, then you believe the Trinity

>>17756157
>The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God
Then there's three gods. Monotheism is one god existing as one "person."

The point of the trinity is that it's a mystery of faith. It's impossible, it makes absolutely no sense, it's beyond human comprehension, yet you still believe it because sometimes you have to take God's word for it. Anyone who says it can be understood doesn't understand it; the point is that it can't be understood, at least by humans.

>>17756584
>Then there's three gods
No, they are one selfsame God.
>Monotheism is one god existing as one "person."
Can you cite me a source which uses this definition?
>The point of the trinity is that it's a mystery of faith.
The "point" of the Trinity is that we would know our God.
>It's impossible, it makes absolutely no sense
This is only true if you believe God is a creature.

"ME, ME, WHY HAVE I FORSAKEN MYSELF??"

>>17756059 (OP)
That is because they deliberately receive and obfuscate the truth in the bible. It is part of all these ancient curses against the righteous that collaborated to stop heaven on earth. And it ended in the revelation. Seems those Jewish prophets had bad intentions.

Covenant \flood problems.

>>17756059 (OP)
This is what happens when youvtry to make all the christian cults happy at the same time, a completely nonsensical concept

>>17756073
Partialism

The only explanations that work are those that admit it doesn't make sense. Because Christians don't want to say that God can be divided into parts, there's no coherent way to explain it.

>The Father is God
>The Son is God
>The Holy Spirit is God
>But the Father is not the Son
>The Son is not the Holy Spirit
>And the Holy Spirit is not the Father
>How does that work? It's a mystery.

It’s simple. God sacrificed himself, to himself, to save us from himself.

>>17756858
It is also contraddictory to the idea that god ombipotence is limited to the logically possible; the trinity is in violation of the transitive property (a=b, b=c, c=a), so not even god can exist in such a form according to most trinitarians themselves

Is that post an attempt to find some sense?

>If A is C
>and B is C
>then A is actually not B
Literally makes no logical sense lol

>>17756884
>If I am human
>and you are human
>then I am actually not you
Literally makes no logical sense lol

>>17756876
Humanity is in violation of the transitive property so humans can't even exist in such a form according to most atheists themselves

>>17756059 (OP)
There's no god and jesus didn't exist. Should clear things up.

>>17756901
Mom I posted it again

>>17756886
"God" isn't comparable to a "human", he is a unique entity. A better comparison is
>If Dick is Richard
>And Rich is Richard
>Then Dick is Rich
or
>If Clark Kent is Superman
>And Kal-El is Superman
>Then Clark Kent is Kal-El

>>17756889
No it isn't

>>17756916
>"God" isn't comparable to a "human", he is a unique entity
That's true, it's also irrelevant to the point I made
>A better comparison is
No, the comparison I made is better. You are conflating being and person

>>17756916
If I am human
And you are human
Then I am you

>>17756924
Your point is retarded
>If I am A human
>and you are A human
>then I am actually not you
You snuck in "a human". "A human" is not equivalent to "C". Transitive properties are not "A is a C, and B is a C, therefore A is B" it is "A is C, B is C, therefore A is B".

The actual equivalent to C would be "the very concept of humanity itself", but in everyday language to say "You are human" is equivalent to saying "You are a human" not "You are the very concept of humanity itself"

>>17756926
1st person perspective
2nd person perspective
3rd person perspective

All three persons are written by the author of his story.

>>17756059 (OP)
It doesn't make sense. That was like half the entire argument surrounding it in the 4th century. It's basically just a long philosophical logic puzzle on trying to smash together shit from the Bible which maybe might prove them right, and which also proves Arianism right as well. A lot of Romans thought it was just nonsense, Constantine points it out in a letter stating that they shouldn't be debating this because there is no answer to it, because the Bible doesn't tell you. Julian also has the same problem and makes a point of it, being that the Holy Spirit acts as the creating force and not God in Genesis, with God only sending it forward to do the creating and it is unmentioned if it is created or uncreated.

In any case, it doesn't matter in the slightest outside of being pedantic, which is 90% of Church debates past the 3rd century.

>>17756929
>You snuck in "a human"
No, I did not say a human
>human" is not equivalent to "C".
Could you point out what the difference in form is?
>The actual equivalent to C would be "the very concept of humanity itself"
Why not just say "humanity" like a normal person?
>not "You are the very concept of humanity itself"
That wasn't what I was talking about when I said God, although technically all that is in God is God, you'd probably whine about that too because all you're doing is whining about God not being like us. In 2,000 years heretics and heathens have failed to identify a single contradiction in the Trinity. The only argument against it "God isn't allowed to exist like that because it doesn't make sense to me"

>>17756951
>I did not say a human
Already explained this. In everyday language saying "John is human" is basically the equivalent of saying "John is a human" not "John is humanity"

>A is "a" C
>B is "a" C
>Therefore A is B
is wrong because it is not the same as
>A is C
>B is C
>Therefore A is B

>The Father is a God
>The Son is a God
>But the Father is not the Son
Makes sense, because "a God" would imply that they are not the same God. However
>The Father is God
>The Son is God
>Therefore the Father is not the Son
Makes no logical sense at all. God is a unique identity

>>17756942
Modalism

>>17756971
The author of his story is an essence. The perspectives are persons. In this way, it is not modalism.

>>17756986
That's literally modalism; you will never make a cogent explaination for the trinity

>>17756886
>>If I am human
>>and you are human
>>then I am actually not you
You're mixing natures with persons, that or you're saying that all humans are one being. Let's look again at what anon posted. Those letters are placeholders for persons.

>>17756970
>Already explained this
It doesn't matter what you "explained", putting words in my mouth is not a valid argument
>>A is "a" C
>>B is "a" C
The problem with strawman arguments is that they fail to say anything about the idea they're pretending to refute.
>Makes no logical sense at all
The problem with arguments from incredulity is that not understanding something does not make it false

>>17756991
>You're mixing natures with persons, that or you're saying that all humans are one being.
Or God is not like humans
>Those letters are placeholders for persons
No, they are placeholders for concepts. You can put anything there and it will be formally identical

>>17756989
Only because you are defining the author as a person, and not an essence.

>>17756989
See >>17756157

>>17756157
>>17756584
>>17756586
>>17756989
>>17757005


Does this help?

>>17756103
Arianism believed that Jesus was a preexistent divine being through whom God created the cosmos. You have no idea what you are talking about.

>>17756797
Good job at refuting a heresy Christians refuted millennia ago. Lol

>>17756858
There is one God because there is one Father, of Whom the Son is an image (Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4), eternally sharing in His glory (2 Corinthians 4:6; John 1:14), doing nothing of Himself but only what He sees the Father doing, who shows all that He does to the Son (John 5:19-20). The monarchy of the Father and inseparable operations are the ground for understanding the Trinity.

This really shows you haven't actually read the NT or any patristic sources expositing the doctrine.

The father is yellow
The son is red
The holy spirit is blue

light is the fundamental basis of color perception

>>17757032
Modalism

>>17757032
Hmm but the red light is not the entirety white light, it's only part of the spectrum that makes up white light. So Jesus, The Father, and Holy Spirit are only parts of God.

>>17757042
>>17757049
>reply to the low IQ post
>ignore the actual Biblical exposition >>17757030
Totally good faith actors btw

>>17757025
-Jews don't believe the Messiah is God
-Jews believe that YHWH and the Spirit of God(the "Holy Spirit") are the same presence, not distinct persons. So we are left with:
>YHWH is the spirit of God, YHWH is not the Messiah, YHWH is Einsof
>the Messiah is not YHWH, the Messiah is not the spirit of God, the Messiah is not Einsof
>the spirit of God is YHWH, the spirit of God is not the Messiah, the spirit of God is Einsof
That makes perfect sense, unlike the Christian trinity.

>>>>17757056

>>Jews don't believe the Messiah is God

Why did they trust Abram/Abraham, Moses/Moshe, and the prophets/neviim?
How would they have known otherwise?

>>>The Messiah is not YHWH, the Messiah is not the spirit of God, the Messiah is not Einsof

The Messiah is not YHWH, I pointed that out.
The Messiah is not the Spirit of God, I pointed that out.

If the Messiah (HaMoshiach) is not Einsof, how is the Messiah "Messiah" then?

>>17757049
God is light, not "white".

>>17757056
Look up Second Power in Heaven theology.

>>17757056
>>17757083

If YHWH≡Spirit of God≡Einsof, then Judaism has a core fundamental contradiction vis-a-vis the Messiah – either HaMoshiach will never arrive (with this puting into questionable existence everyone ever attested in the Tanakh & their powers) OR HaMoshiach has nothing to do with Einsof, YHWH, respectively Spirit of God.
Meaning that HaMoshiach is at best a null person – having nothing to do with the divine, and knowledge, and wisdom, and power, and... you complete the rest – and at worst a wicked person in lukewarm description.

And...

>YHWH and the Spirit of God(the "Holy Spirit") are the same presence

This alone disavows the tree of life, respectively Einsof.

>>17756059 (OP)
1 essence
3 persons

Simple.

>>17757241
Meaningless philobabble0

>>17757246
>& humanities

Sabellianism actually makes sense

>>17756999
Is that an attempt at special pleading?
>You can put anything there and it will be formally identical
Then it would be a false analogy

There are non-transitve relations. Not sure why mathlets can't comprehend this.

>This shit is way too complicated
Not really, anon.

inb4 typical replies:

>How can three be one? Christianity just copied pagan triads.
Nah, that's surface-level Reddit-tier takes. Triads in pagan systems are often symbolic groupings or aspects of a single god spread out for storytelling convenience. The Trinity isn’t a metaphor or a pantheon-lite setup. It’s One God in Three Persons, co-equal, consubstantial, eternal. Not parts of God. Not masks. Not a committee. Three whos, one what.

>If it's not logical, why believe it?
It is logical, it just transcends easy logic. You don't demand that quantum physics be intuitive, so why expect the Infinite to fit inside your skull? Mystery ≠ contradiction. If God is infinite, you'd expect some realities about Him to be beyond human comprehension.

>Early Christians didn’t even believe in the Trinity. It was invented at Nicaea.
This old canard again. The Church didn’t invent doctrine at Nicaea, it defined it against heresy. Trinitarian belief is all over Scripture: the Father sends the Son (John 3:16), the Son promises the Spirit (John 14:26), Christ commands baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matt 28:19). Nicaea just clarified what the Church already believed when people like Arius tried to mess with it.

>Feels like theological gymnastics.
Sure, if you approach it like a debate club exercise. But if you actually live the faith (pray the Creed, contemplate the Incarnation and the Eucharist) it becomes reality. You’re engaging the same divine Persons who moved the Apostles, the martyrs, the saints.

>inb4 "muh Council of Florence"
Yes, and thank God for it. Western theology isn’t afraid to use precision. That’s what keeps it from turning into either vague mysticism or flat materialism.

>I can't understand how the supreme Lord of the universe operates with my limited human brain!?

According to the Quran, the father, and the son, and the holy spirit ate all attributes of Allah.

face = Allah
eyes = Allah
hands = Allah

Face =/= eyes =/= hands

>>17756059 (OP)
I agree, classical Adoptionism is the only sensible christology

>>17757323
You're extremely full of shit.

>>17757266
No.

>>17757824
You're extremely mad

>>17756865
>It’s simple. God sacrificed himself, to himself, to save us from himself.

What are you saying? God is schizophrenic or has multiple personality disorder or something? sounds heretical

Inb4 the enjoy burning in hell crowd

The Trinity is the manifested Godhead, showing the Differentiated Unity of God.

The Universal and Particular emanating from the Trinity that created the world is reflected by the paradox of God being one nature and 3 persons in an eternal Unity.

>>17757937
He's an atheist troll who thought it better to remove all doubt than to close his mouth and appear an idiot.

>>17758257
Modalism

>>17757937
>>17758363
that is exactly what the jewish cult teaches

>>17758915
Pajeet tranny anon...