Thread 17771712 - /his/ [Archived: 1015 hours ago]

Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:14:06 PM No.17771712
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The year is 1940 and you are adolf hitler. the plans for britain have failed, but you want to invade the soviets. how would you do it? how would your plan. differ from our timeline? you have to invade them before the end of 1941.
Replies: >>17771724 >>17771726 >>17771727 >>17771742 >>17771770 >>17771835 >>17771841 >>17771907 >>17772689 >>17772743
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:18:22 PM No.17771724
>>17771712 (OP)
Do what Adolf originally wanted to do and go straight for the Caucasus to cripple the Soviet army and capabilities. Moscow would be easy from then on.
Replies: >>17771835
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:18:54 PM No.17771726
>>17771712 (OP)
Do everything exactly the same but don't station Romanians to guard the front around Stalingrad, that was retarded
Replies: >>17771747
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:19:00 PM No.17771727
>>17771712 (OP)
>marry my son to the princess of england, ez non aggression pact
>use 'establish tributary state' casus beli on spain, flank secured
>request claim on duchy of moscow, duchy of kiev and duchy of leningrad, my high piety and court chaplains efforts secures papal approval
>build op german heavy cavalry retinues, use vassal levies to siege down regions for rapid warscore gain
>use my carefully acquired grace with China to request chinese invasion from the east, forcing russia to 2 front war
>once captured claimed duchies, usurp stalians empire title leaving only low tier dukes resisting my overwhelming might
>disband levies and use mercenaries and retinues to quickly subjugate each leftover region

why the FUCK did hitler not do this? was he retarded
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:22:25 PM No.17771742
>>17771712 (OP)
convince turkey to join the war
have turkey invade the caucuses
ignore everything north of brest, send all forces south to capture kyiv, with objective of capturing astrakhan
lock the oil in the caucuses down
during winter bomb the shit out of northern russia use chemical weapons on crops
crush them in spring of next year
ez
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:23:28 PM No.17771747
>>17771726
why would you do that, barbarossa totally failed, surely you should start with changing that
Replies: >>17771750
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:25:02 PM No.17771750
>>17771747
It failed because Stalingrad was surrounded
Replies: >>17771753
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:25:46 PM No.17771753
>>17771750
you're an idiot. the war was lost well before stalingrad
Replies: >>17771773
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:25:55 PM No.17771754
id lie through my teeth and promise everything to allies so they come and join the zergrush using them as cannonfodder
italy is a pain in the ass because they want the balkans and africa too, id try to make a deal to make them abandon africa for a while, and focus on containing the british navy in the med sea
id go north, then sweep down to the south, goal would be to lock the USSR away from its european ports and UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE DECLARE WAR ON THE US
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:28:58 PM No.17771766
Turn the map upside down
South russia is much more interesting than the frozen north which is useless.
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:29:58 PM No.17771770
>>17771712 (OP)
I don't like Germany so I would try to lose the war even faster
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:30:44 PM No.17771773
>>17771753
Holding Stalingrad was their hope to control the Caucasus and gain its oil. It was the decisive battle of the war. Once it had been surrounded and cut off by the Red Army the war was lost.
Even if the Moscow and Leningrad fronts were completely destroyed, holding Stalingrad would have been enough to continue to supply the war effort
Replies: >>17771934
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:44:33 PM No.17771820
Have Japan open a second front from the East and not attack pearl harbour
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:50:40 PM No.17771835
>>17771712 (OP)
Barbarossa was hopeless from the start. The proof for that it was executed almost perfectly and it still failed.
>>17771724
>just go for the south
And then you just need fight the Soviets from three direction with a 3,000 km supply line.
Replies: >>17771846 >>17771851
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:51:59 PM No.17771841
>>17771712 (OP)
I declare war on Russia and say I will attack in summer.
The Russians tear all their bridges down.
Then I send a strawman army to Russia during summer.
Then I send the actual army in the coldest winter day, obviously. All the rivers being frozen, no bridges needed.
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:54:14 PM No.17771846
>>17771835
>The proof for that it was executed almost perfectly and it still failed.
It failed because Italy fucked up in Greece and a number of panzer divisions were knocked off as a result. The delay also played a part. Hitler's original plan was also a much better idea, but for the first time he didn't trust his gut and went with the spearhead for Moscow approach his generals suggested that was not needed.
>And then you just need fight the Soviets from three direction with a 3,000 km supply line.
No, you literally don't. Because AG North and Center would have still held the flanks, they just wouldn't have went deep. South would have fortified itself in Stalingrad and the Caucasus. Without the logistical center of Stalingrad and the oil of Baku where the USSR at the time was getting 90% of it's oil, the Soviets would be done as a force capable of launching any serious offensive. This would have also cut off the Lend Lease route through Iran and the Allies would have had to pick a new cumbersome route through Norway or Siberia which wouldn't have worked nearly as well.
Replies: >>17771944
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 10:55:23 PM No.17771851
>>17771835
the soviets couldn't have pushed the german line significantly during the winter, and by spring they wouldn't be able to go on the offensive period, assuming they were totally expelled from the caucuses
Replies: >>17771911
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:26:02 PM No.17771907
>>17771712 (OP)
kill myself i guess, war with the soviet union is hopeless
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:27:10 PM No.17771911
>>17771851
They could have. The had the ability to get a major encirclement like Stalingrad in 1941 Stalin just aimed too high
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:30:20 PM No.17771920
Stop being a Nazi retard, declare Ukrainians honorary germanics, come in as liberator, arm them, if you can't trust them at the front just put them in charge of all occupation
Do the same with as many Russian minorities as you can, promise them they get to take revenge against the Russians

Don't declare war on the US when Japan does, let them get distracted in the East

It probably still fails but at least you're not wasting a gigantic resource
Replies: >>17772958
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:36:42 PM No.17771934
>>17771773
>Holding Stalingrad was their hope to control the Caucasus and gain its oil.
What use is Stalingrad if they never reached the oil?
Army Group A never reached Grozny.
Stalingrad was merely to secure the flank of the southern push, which stalled anyway.

>It was the decisive battle of the war.
Are you quoting some bullshit hollywood 'documentary'? Not a single historian would argue this. Case Blue was a desperate attempt as there was no other option. The overwhelming majority of historians are in agreement that the Germans lost the war when Barbarossa failed and USA entered the war. Even capturing Maikop (intact) and Grozny wouldnt even have mattered in the long run.
Replies: >>17771939 >>17771940
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:39:50 PM No.17771939
>>17771934
Well they had to retreat because of how badly Army Group B was defeated on the Volga. Had they been able to hold on to Rostov and the rail line heading south they could have held on to the oil
Replies: >>17771964
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:39:51 PM No.17771940
>>17771934
>Stalingrad was merely to secure the flank of the southern push, which stalled anyway.
Stalingrad was a vital logistical center from which all supplies, including oil, moved through.
Replies: >>17771945
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:41:01 PM No.17771944
>>17771846
>It failed because Italy fucked up in Greece and a number of panzer divisions were knocked off as a result.
Myth.

>The delay also played a part.
It was delated, but not because of the Balkan campaign.
Again, myth.

>Without the logistical center of Stalingrad and the oil of Baku
Do you realise how far away Baku is? The Germans themselves never even considered Baku.
Barbarossa was planned under the premise that the Soviets didnt even have half of their actual division strength, and that the Soviet state would collapse from the opening blow.
The Germans knew they were in trouble already by late August when the Red Army kept resisting.
Replies: >>17771961
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:41:03 PM No.17771945
>>17771940
It was put under siege for a prolonged period without impacting the Soviet ability to supply themselves with oil significantly
Replies: >>17771961
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:49:10 PM No.17771961
>>17771944
Go read on the Greek invasion before spouting shit you don't undertand.
>It was delated, but not because of the Balkan campaign.
Same thing I said earlier.
>Do you realise how far away Baku is? The Germans themselves never even considered Baku.
Yes, they did. The capture of Baku was always the goal. Again, proving you know nothing on the matter
>Barbarossa was planned under the premise that the Soviets didnt even have half of their actual division strength, and that the Soviet state would collapse from the opening blow.
Again, with absolute wikipedia-tier nonsense. Hitler expected it to be the bloodiest and hardest battle of the Wehrmacht. He knew it was a huge empire with a massive population and despite it's failings in Finland, still a formidable military. He never expected it to be easy
>>17771945
It was not put 'under' siege. It was constantly resupplied by the Soviet armies in the back. It was never encircled and the fighting was ongoing.
Replies: >>17771998 >>17772028
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:51:48 PM No.17771964
>>17771939
Again, you ignore the fundemental point. Army Group A never even reach Grozny because the offensive had been exhausted. What good is Stalingrad to them then?
The Germans did capture Maikop, but Stalin had made it perfectly clear to the district commisar that he and his entire family would be shot if any of the oilfields were captured intact, so they were burned to the ground. The Germans extracted apporximately zero barrels from Maikop.
Case Blue was planned under the same premise as Operation Typhoon; that the Red Army were on their last leg and would collapse.
And again, Case Blue was planned with the understanding that it was Germanys only option, it wasnt a good option, but it was the only one they had after Barbarossa failed. It was planned with a huge amount of cope.

>Stalingrad was a vital logistical center from which all supplies, including oil, moved through.
Stalingrad wasnt, the Volga was, and you have a point that controlling the volga would inflict significant damage to the USSR since it was the transportation nerve from Baku to the main refineries at Bashkortostan.

But controlling the Volga still doesnt solve Germanys fundemental problem, which is to gain oil. And they never even reach their primary target which was Grozny.
And even if they did, it's with the assumption that the Soviets doesnt completely scorch Grozny like they did with Maikop.
Even if we play with the idea that the Germans reach Baku intact (IRL Germany never even go within flying distance to Baku), historians will assume Britain would just bomb the place to ground, since they had a bomber fleet stationed in Mesopotamia since the planning of Operation Pike specifically for the purpose.
Replies: >>17771973 >>17771974
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:55:14 PM No.17771973
>>17771964
The idea would be to not concentrate their prime manpower in Stalingrad and hold their flanks better. This would give Army Group A more time to advance in the Caucusus, resupply, etc. Probably it wouldn't work and probably the alternative to driving straight for Astrakhan instead of dividing Army Group South also wouldn't have just possibilities
Replies: >>17772046
Anonymous
6/17/2025, 11:55:31 PM No.17771974
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nvb79ealufh73
md5: ac40febe1b198f75c9f3fff61a6b604a🔍
>>17771964
>Stalingrad wasnt, the Volga was, and you have a point that controlling the volga would inflict significant damage to the USSR since it was the transportation nerve from Baku to the main refineries at Bashkortostan.
There were two paths from where the resources of the Caucasus, the most important being oil, can move through - Stalingrad or Rostov. Naturally if you have secured Stalingrad, you have secured Rostov.
Replies: >>17772046
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 12:08:11 AM No.17771998
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1715386857043084
md5: a38b8495eb96948c66d75247ae0964fa🔍
>>17771961
>Go read on the Greek invasion before spouting shit you don't undertand.
Nope and again, a myth.
First of all, Barbarossa did not have a set starting date in May, the actual Fuhrer Directive No. 21 was that all preparations must be completed by May, so the premise of the whole argument is false to begin with.
Second of all, Barbarossa could not begin earlier because of the late spring thaw which is common in Eastern Europe, the specific problem was that many rivers such as the Bug river were flooded. The late thaw also cause provisional frontline airfields to become wet and thus unuseable.
Wehrmacht divisions were still waiting on trucks to be requisitioned from occupied territories, especially France, to support the invasion.
Mud season in Russia occures twice a year, once in spring and once in Autumn. It's the fundemental reason why Napoleons invasion of Russia occured around the same date, and Operation Bagration, which was also in that region, occured around the same time.

Simply put, Barbarossa was hastly and poorly planned. They didnt account for weather, preparations were not completed, and they catastrophically underestimated Red Army size (they estimated 140 divisions, when in reality it was over 300).

Want a source?
Antony Beevor writes this in his book that is literally called Stalingrad.
And he is just one out of pretty much every historian who agree that Barbarossa could not have started sooner, and that the Greek campaign is mostly parroted by
1. British post-war propaganda that wants to highlight their own contribution.
2. German generals who in their post-war memoir wanted to blame Hitler or Mussolini or just about anything and anyone but themselves so they could look like AAA star generals.

>The capture of Baku was always the goal.
It literally wasnt, and you're retarded.
Adolf Hitler literally says:
“If I do not get the oil of Maikop and Grozny, then I must end this war.”
Replies: >>17772051
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 12:21:51 AM No.17772028
>>17771961
>It was not put 'under' siege. It was constantly resupplied by the Soviet armies in the back. It was never encircled and the fighting was ongoing.
So somehow the Soviets managed to use the infrastructure of Stalingrad to transport supplies all over the empire... while it had a million Germans in it?
Replies: >>17772051
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 12:28:26 AM No.17772046
>>17771973
>>17771974
None of this is even relevant to your point that Germany was just going to automatically win the war if they controlled Stalingrad.
In fact it seems like you're backpeddling on this argument now because you finally begin to realise the flaws because you're actually applying a tiny bit of critical thinking.

These debates always end up with some wehraboo just gonna give Germany some magic amount of manpower and material, and the logistical capability to support it, so I think we're done here.

Army group A never reached Grozny because Army Group B had to be strengthened to even have a chance to capture Stalingrad.
Army Group A isnt just going to magically renew an offensive since Case Blue had been prepared with what remained from Barbarossa which was only enough for one offensive and for one of the three army groups.

Even if they capture Stalingrad, Operation Uranus still happens, which means 2 million Soviets are going to rain down on a German overstreched logistical line, and allied bombers will absolutely target it from occupied Iran and British Mesopotamia.
Irregardless, more oil isnt going to stop the Soviet juggernaut being fed by Lend-Lease, and even a sudden Soviet collapse isnt going to stop Berlin from getting nuked. The war was lost when Barbarossa failed and USA entered. Stalingrad was a piss in the water.
Replies: >>17772060
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 12:31:42 AM No.17772051
>>17771998
>First of all, Barbarossa did not have a set starting date in May, the actual Fuhrer Directive No. 21 was that all preparations must be completed by May, so the premise of the whole argument is false to begin with.
Preparations meaning preparations for the invasion. Meaning the invasion is ready to go.
>Second of all, Barbarossa could not begin earlier because of the late spring thaw which is common in Eastern Europe, the specific problem was that many rivers such as the Bug river were flooded. The late thaw also cause provisional frontline airfields to become wet and thus unuseable.
Wehrmacht divisions were still waiting on trucks to be requisitioned from occupied territories, especially France, to support the invasion.
Mud season in Russia occures twice a year, once in spring and once in Autumn. It's the fundemental reason why Napoleons invasion of Russia occured around the same date, and Operation Bagration, which was also in that region, occured around the same time.
This is pure nonsense all around. First off, the panzer divisions that were needed were in Greece, not France. Rasputitsa ends by May and Napoleon invasion wasn't so much as planned as being brought down on him by Alexander who urged him to leave Prussia.
>Antony Beevor writes this in his book that is literally called Stalingrad.
Who the fuck gives a fuck what some retard wrote when you can read the actual documents yourself?
>It literally wasnt, and you're retarded.
Approximately 80-90% of Soviet oil came from Baku. Grozny was needed because it was one of the logistical center for its transportation and there were additional oil fields there to supplement the German war effort. But strictly speaking Baku was needed not only for the oil, but because without it the Soviet army would be crippled.

>>17772028
Stalingrad was never fully captured. Not even remotely. There were air drops and transports flying from Baku constantly. Those were the resources the Soviet used to encircle AG6
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 12:34:08 AM No.17772060
>>17772046
>None of this is even relevant to your point that Germany was just going to automatically win the war if they controlled Stalingrad.
Ok, let me explain it to you in simple terms, my little nigger. Modern armies run on oil. 90% of the Soviet oil came from the Caucasus. Coincidentally that is where the majority of the Lend Lease came from too. If we pretend the Germans were successful in their offensive and did manage to capture the region, that would mean that not only the Germans would have fuel for their armies which they were running out of (and one of the reasons why they started being pushed back) but that would also deprive the Soviets of the absolutely most critical resources they needed. Combine that with the fact that most profitable regions with the most amount of people were already captured by the German army, it means the Soviets would lose the war.
Replies: >>17772099 >>17772396
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 12:46:50 AM No.17772099
>>17772060
>the Caucasus. Coincidentally that is where the majority of the Lend Lease came from too.
Majority of Lend Lease came from Vladivostok. Lets see how you get yourself out of this one.

>deprive the Soviets of the absolutely most critical resources they needed.
In 1940, the overwhelming majority of all oil in the world came from USA. USSR produced maybe 10% of the world oil.
Unlike Germany, USSR also have access to the remaining world market, including major oil producers like Venezuela.
You just assume they wouldnt have any oil just because they lose their domestic source.
You also assume Baku wouldnt be bombed to shit if it was captured. Operation Pike was literally crafted for this purpose. You also assume the Soviets wouldnt just burn the oilfields themselves like they did with Maikop.
Not that it matters because IRL the Germans did not even come within long-range flight distance to Baku before Army Group A was exhausted.

>my little nigger.
/pol/fags are always the least educated
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 2:12:00 AM No.17772396
>>17772060
Damn bro you should've been leading the wehrmacht with that kind of ice cold wit
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 4:22:13 AM No.17772689
>>17771712 (OP)

1. Set up independent states in occupied USSR and arm the population.

2. Dont push for Caucasus or Moscow. Push to Smolensk/Kiev and then fight delaying actions. You have the tactical superiority and nearly every open-field battle is a 1:5 ratio. Bleed the Soviets until they run out of manpower and sue for peace.

3. Fuck North Africa, its a logistical black hole with no viable victory. Use all the men and material and resources of the Afrika Korps to fortify Siciliy, forcing the allies to make a Overlord-eque invasion to take it.

4. Do not declare war on USA

5. There is uranium in Czechia. Use it.
Replies: >>17773049
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 4:45:12 AM No.17772743
>>17771712 (OP)
Kidnap stalin
I, Hitler, would then ravish Stalin on live radio, live TV, and in front of an audience.
Stalin is returned. But the USSR spirit is broken.
Invade
Conquer
Triumph!
Then we march through Moscow.
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 6:55:36 AM No.17772958
>>17771920
the only real answer is
>Stop being a Nazi
which never would've happened because then hitler would've been couped by the dozens of fanatical nazis under him and the exact same thing that happened historically would've happened.

the only way the nazis could have won is by not being the nazis in which case there wouldn't have been a war to win at all.
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 7:51:21 AM No.17773049
>>17772689
>Dont push for Caucasus or Moscow. Push to Smolensk/Kiev and then fight delaying actions. You have the tactical superiority and nearly every open-field battle is a 1:5 ratio. Bleed the Soviets until they run out of manpower and sue for peace.
Germans would have run out of manpower and resources much sooner. The Soviet Union was out produced Germany in almost everything.