>God created the Big Bang, all matter, the starting positions of every atom, its velocity, and everything subsequent.
>God knows the future.
>But God isn't the author of evil.

How does that work?

God created the veil of Maya/Ignorance of his truth to fool us, but if we work hard and reconquer ourselves from illusion we can be free of evil. Evil is a creation of god, everything is. That's why christianity doesn't "work". Because it's untrue.

>>17773287 (OP)

jehovah dindu nuffin!

God knows everything, but somehow he didn't know that this one tricky serpent
1) Existed in the first place
2) Was in his garden

He also punished the human couple instead of the serpent for some weird reason.
And not only it was lifetime punishment but it extends to every single generation until the end of time unless you "repent" on behalf of your grandx20-parents, because stealing an apple is much eviler than say torturing and executing a bunch of heretics

>>17773287 (OP)
>God created the Big Bang, all matter, the starting positions of every atom, its velocity, and everything subsequent.
Yes.
>God knows the future.
Yes but that's only half true. God is all knowing and knows all futures. God knows every possible outcome of every decision that a person can make. However, God does not take away our agency to make those decisions. That's what free will is.
>But God isn't the author of evil
Evil is the free will of humanity to disobey what God commands.
God allows evil to exist because without it, we wouldn't know what good truly is. We wouldn't be able to form an actual relationship with the Holy. We'd be mindless robots.

God understands our ability to cause evil and sympathizes with us. He even went so far as to reveal himself in the form of a man and take on some of the most brutal suffering and evil imaginable by humans, while performing no evil of his own, in order to show us that he understand our blight.

>>17773293

>God wrote the book but he didn't write the book. Okay!!!

>>17773334

>Consciousness is brain chemistry and neural states
>But it also isn't because...reasons!

>>17773349
>christjew scurries off to an unrelated topic and hopes you fall for it

>>17773334
>humans have a hand in manifesting reality
something atheists ironically have a hard time with.

>>17773287 (OP)

The Western religious notion of free will is pure narcissistic delusion - a grandiose fantasy that places human choice on a preposterous metaphysical pedestal above the natural laws and deterministic forces governing the entire cosmos. This contra-causal fairytale imagines our minds as immaterial, formless, magical sources of utterly uncaused, ex nihilo causal powers, exempt from the physiological constraints and causal chains that rationally explain all other phenomena. It arrogantly recasts human decision-making as some miraculous, self-created form of willful creationism rather than recognizing it as shaped by the same rational patterns and processes describing the rest of the known universe. In essence, it inscribes blatant anthropocentric narcissism as pseudo-profundity, shamelessly elevating human ego over empirical explanations of how embodied minds actually operate via scientific naturalism.

>>17773287 (OP)

Free will is a lie. It's not profound, it's not special, it's not real. It's the last gasp of human arrogance in the face of a deterministic universe. Every scientific advancement demolishes another pillar of this delusion. Neuroscience, psychology, genetics - they all point to the same cold truth: your actions are predetermined. Your thoughts, your decisions, your so-called choices - they're just the inevitable output of prior causes. Free will apologists are no better than religious fundamentalists clinging to their "god of the gaps." Both desperately search for ever-shrinking pockets of ignorance to hide their beliefs. It's not philosophy. It's not reason. It's fear. You're afraid of a world without free will. Afraid of losing your sense of self, your moral responsibility, your illusion of control. But your fear doesn't change reality. You're a biological machine, your actions as predictable as any physical system, given enough information. There's no magic. No soul. No ghost in the machine. Just cause and effect, playing out as it always has and always will. Your feeling of choice is just that - a feeling. An illusion created by a brain that can't comprehend its own deterministic nature. Wake up. Free will is dead. It was never alive to begin with. You're not the author of your thoughts or actions. You're just another domino in the cosmic chain, falling exactly as you were always going to fall. Deal with it.

>>17773374
>>17773377
>free will doesn't exist cuz le science
is this really the best you have to offer?

>>17773378
Can god's will be thwarted. Yes or no?

>>17773386
No. And its not a part of God's will to overwrite our agency. Instead God uses our evil and disobedience for his own good. God is both sovereign and all knowing, while also allowing allowing our free will.

Acts 2:23 - this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

>>17773402
>No

Then you admit free will doesn't exist because god's will is absolute

Thanks for playing christcuck

>>17773403
>it cant read
oh well. Should've expected less.

>>17773413
>gods will cannot be thwarted
>but you have free will though somehow!

laughable pilpul

>>17773421
>God's will is to give us free will
>can't read and has a meltdown instead

>>17773429
Free will that operates under gods will is the opposite of free will

Lol

If everything is his plan since the start of creation then its not free will at all

Christcuck in shambles

>>17773293
>Yes but that's only half true. God is all knowing and knows all futures. God knows every possible outcome of every decision that a person can make. However, God does not take away our agency to make those decisions.

>Evil is the free will of humanity to disobey what God commands.
God allows evil to exist because without it, we wouldn't know what good truly is. We wouldn't be able to form an actual relationship with the Holy. We'd be mindless robots.

>God understands our ability to cause evil and sympathizes with us. He even went so far as to reveal himself in the form of a man and take on some of the most brutal suffering and evil imaginable by humans, while performing no evil of his own, in order to show us that he understand our blight.

How do you know this?
Did God tell you such things, directly, in person?

>>17773378

Okay so why doesn't someone just free will themselves to be perfect? Why do you need Jesus?

>ITT
>atheists unable to comprehend how free will exists in God’s deterministic universe
I’m done replying to retards

>>17773438
>God has plan
>Human has free will
>God's foresight sees human approaching decision
>If human says yes, good things happen
>God's plan continues
>if Human says no, evil things happen
>God sees possible evil, has plan for it
>God's plan continues

>human makes free will decision
>God's will never thwarted regardless of decision, thanks to foresight

You'll figure out metaphysics one day, kid.

>>17773467

Programs do what they're programmed to do. And the programmers who programmed them are just doing what the programmers before them programmed them to do. Whether that programming came from the environment or genes. There's nothing "deep" going on. There is no free will.

>>17773467

According to free will believers, the ONLY reason they're not currently raping and murdering people is because they have to actively "free will" themselves not to. Otherwise they'd be doing it. Yikes. Meanwhile determinism believers never have to worry about that shit because it never even crosses their mind.

>>17773468
>>17773471
neither of these are counterarguments.
I accept your concessions.

>>17773467
>god doesn't definitely know your actions or the future

wow. you just denied omniscience.

good job blasphemer

>>17773451
But... didn't God make retards as well?

Or were retards made by Satan?

But if Satan made them without God's consent, doesn't it mean God is not omnipotent?

Or maybe God lets Satan do stuff every now and then? But then that would mean God isn't really that good, wouldn't it?

>>17773451

If God allows "free will" to reign and never interferes. Why do people thank him for stuff he has nothing to do with?

>>17773451

If hypnosis and brainwashing isn't real and everyone has free will and is responsible for their own actions and human "choices" are acausal. Then why does the US military openly spend billions of dollars on so called "psyop" programs? Why do they have entire divisions dedicated to "psychological operations". How can normies believe in free will and support the existence of psyops at the same time? Shouldn't all psyop programs be doomed from the start because people supposedly have free will? The military and CIA sure doesn't believe in free will. They believe the mind is something that can easily be controlled and molded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Psychological_Operations_Group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Psychological_Operations_Group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Psychological_Operations_Group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_Psychological_Operations_Group

>>17773374
>>17773377
You chose to post all this. No one forced you.

>>17773445
In fact, he just read it in some retarded desert book

>>17773287 (OP)
It's basically explained by middle knowledge.

>>17773374
>The Western religious notion of free will is pure narcissistic delusion
>a preposterous metaphysical pedestal above the natural laws and deterministic forces governing the entire cosmos.
Ironically, the mechanistic view of the universe that you seem to espouse became prevalent because of Isaac Newton's model of physics, which is based on the Western scientific method.
>In essence, it inscribes blatant anthropocentric narcissism as pseudo-profundity,
If your view is actually true, why do you even care at all though? Seems to be a contradiction. You claim to believe strictly in a mechanistic form of pure materialism, yet here you are implying that some views (i.e. yours) are "better" than others. Seems you don't believe your own theory.

>>17773540
>How can normies believe in free will and support the existence of psyops at the same time? Shouldn't all psyop programs be doomed from the start because people supposedly have free will?
This is a really retarded question. Free will isn't the same thing as omnipotence. Just because people have the ability to make some decisions some of the time doesn't mean they get to decide everything all of the time. Confusing these two very different things is an obvious straw man fallacy.

The gist of religious discussion is:

>you cannot talk directly to God because God is hidden away and too complex to understand, you need to have faith instead
>but I know all about God with absolute certainty, as if he was a friend of mine or something
>so just trust me about everything

>>17773287 (OP)
>God created the Big Bang, all matter, the starting positions of every atom
Genesis does not say he created anything ex nihilo and says the opposite.

>>17773287 (OP)
God didn't create evil; evil is nothingness, which was extinguished when God created the universe
Sin leads to evil, evil is the destruction of life and the destruction of the existence that God created

>>17773287 (OP)
I like how every christcuck answers differently, goes to show how they don't know shit and the whole cult is a lie

>>17775632
If you take Genesis 1 literally, God created light, but not water.
Curious

>>17775761
>If you take Genesis 1 literally, God created light, but not water.
???
>In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Earth = formless waters

>>17775823
>Earth = formless waters
I'm fairly sure that "earth" and "water" are wholly distinct substances, as never before today have I met someone who uses the two as synonyms

>>17775823
The first sentence is a summary. "In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth."

Its like saying, when God made cookies, he started by mixing the doe. Your response is, "so cookies are doe now?"

>>17776140
You may need to talk to this fellow Christian of yours, you seem to have different opinions >>17775632

>>17773287 (OP)
god literally says he created evil in the bible btw

>>17773287 (OP)
God knows what will happen in the end of the days of the earth and it is good and worth it. He saw many innocent people worth saving and they are worth this world's existence the way it is.

God is tolerating the evil in the world because from this world have come those who have become his favorite people. This world will continue to do exist until the last of the elect is born and dies.

Then God will create a new world that will be a paradise and he will give it to those elect ones who endured the evil of this world and yet loved God and remained innocent.

>>17776181
Let me guess, you are one of the elects

>>17773293
In the beginning God saw a way that leads to eternal life and he said "this is the way in which one must walk." And he has been trying to teach humanity to walk in this way for thousands of years. Those who listen to him and walk in that way will get to live forever in peace and happiness.

The rest will die. And the ones who do evil will go to hell.

God will give those who walks the way of the innocent a new body that is capable of experiencing thousands of times greater joy and pleasure than our human bodies can. He will give them awesome powers and abilities and wings to fly and ascent to the heavens. And they will get to see his face. The greatest treasures of all. They will get to see the most beautiful thing in existence.

>>17773402
God can close your ears to make you not listen and can harden your heart to make you not understand as punishment for your evil so that you do not turn to him and can be healed and saved.

God is evil with those who do evil, but he is merciful and long suffering with them before he decides to do evil to them.

>>17773530
God knows every action you could possibly take. Even the ones you wont take. Take you time, those cogwheels clearly need to be greased.

>>17776161
Equivocation. Natural evil is not the same as moral evil.

>>17773292
He knew the serpent existed HE MADE HIM AND EVERYTHING ELSE

He punished the serpent to forever move around on his belly its in the bible itself
Why all atheists so stupid

>>17773287 (OP)
Maybe God created evil to teach good people how to defeat it. Maybe evil existing is a natural consequence of good. Light cannot exist without a shadow or something. It all makes a lot of sense if you acknowledge the fact that your capacity for reason and understanding is limited.

>>17778077
Maybe God created evil to teach the innocent people to fear God and love rigtheousness by showing them what will happen to those who do evil in the end.