Why was Russia the first country to recognize Israel officially?
Aren't communists supposed to be against reactionary ideologies like Zionism?

So which one is it?
>the USSR was antisemitic
>the USSR was zionist
This is why centrism/pragmatism rules. You can't know the truth if you see the world through an ideological bias. It's the same with Nazi Germany and religion: some say it was atheist, others that it was christian or even pagan. Nobody knows which one was it because ideology is more important than truth.

>>17782786
Being antisemitic and zionist was many times the same thing.

>>17782786
So basically what you're saying it was just a matter of strategy?

>>17782792
This. "We hate Jews and want them to fuck off, so we back them having a place to fuck off to" is entirely consistent.

>>17782806
Yep.
Many people forget that Balfour was a raging antisemite who wanted jews to leave Europe.
NSDAP themselves signed the Haavara Agreement which was essentially state-funded zionism.

And modern day neo-nazies who wishes the end of Israel doesnt realise that if Israel was undone, it would immediately create 7 million jewish refugees to Europe (and European governments would immediately accept them), and your cause would be back on square one.

USSR in the 1930s was very antisemitic, but I do believe Stalin supported Israel more for pragmatic geopolitical reasons. The arab states were aligned with Britain, and Israel was against Britain.
Soviet game was to screw over the western imperial powers of especially France and Britain.

>Zionists in 1948 were dominated by Labor Zionism
>Arabs in 1948 were governed by reactionary monarchies or colonial puppet states
>the ethnic cleansing hadn't happened yet, or its scope was unclear at this early point (and Stalin didn't have clean hands himself when it came to that issue)

>>17782778 (OP)
Because they thought that Israel would become a communist ally and a springboard to spread communism across MENA. When that didn't happen they instead shifted their support to Pan-Arabists and Baathists. That's how they went from recognizing Israel to directly fighting against them during the War of Attrition.

>>17782810
I think it was mainly pragmatic geopolitical reasons to screw over Britain yeah. Also to encourage tension between the U.S. and Britain as Israel had more supporters among liberals who were in power in the U.S. (at this time, Israel was more of a liberal cause than a conservative one).

Israel also became a place to dump Jews sitting around in DP camps in Eastern Europe, but the USSR actually made it difficult for its own Jews to leave (which was odd because it was also becoming increasingly antisemitic). This became a whole issue in the 70s with the refuseniks.

>>17782853
Yeah it wasn't uncommon in Arab countries at war with Israel in 1948 to describe the war in terms of fighting communism and atheism.

Israel rejected their commie yapping and then KGB invented the palestinian movement with the help of the Arab league.

>>17782778 (OP)
USSR supported Israel initially until Israel aligned itself with USA, then they switched to supporting Arabs instead

>>17783131
>but the USSR actually made it difficult for its own Jews to leave (which was odd because it was also becoming increasingly antisemitic).
Jews have always been some of the smartest people in Russia, so it would probably cause significant brain drain to have them all leave.

>>17783179
It was. When the union collapsed, the Jewish population fled en masse to Israel, with many post-Soviet nations now having zero Jews. And what do you know, this was a contributing factor to the economic slow down of these countries. But it also strengthened ties between Russia and Israel, as now 20% of Israel's population speaks Russian at home.

Antisemitic Zionism only makes some degree of sense up to 1948, once Israel exists there is no reason to support its further expansion and crimes against Arabs and Iranians. All the Jews can already live there perfectly well.

>>17782778 (OP)
>Aren't communists supposed to be against reactionary ideologies like Zionism?
I am pretty sure the whole idea behind Marxism and Bolshevism is to make up whatever excuse you can to do what you want. In their doctrine, they view language itself as a weapon and a tool of deceit, meaning they can freely change the definitions of whatever words they use to mean the opposite at another time, when convenient. It's important to keep that in mind whenever attempting to communicate with them.

>>17782810
>And modern day neo-nazies who wishes the end of Israel doesnt realise that if Israel was undone, it would immediately create 7 million jewish refugees to Europe (and European governments would immediately accept them), and your cause would be back on square one.
I think most neo-nazi groups are actually funded by organizations of people who identify as Jewish. The whole modern Holocaust narrative about WWII itself didn't exist in the U.S. until around 1978 with Frank Collins and the Skokie Illinois demonstrations. Frank Collins was supported by the ACLU and lawyers from the ACLU who identified as Jewish. That's where the whole narrative really was formed in the mainstream and kicked off from there, and Jimmy Carter created the "Holocause Commission" the next year in 1979.

From a political standpoint, I myself would support a one state solution for that territory, with all its undeclared and unregulated nuclear weapons disarmed, similar to what happened in South Africa when they disarmed. No country in the middle east should be allowed to have a nuclear weapon and the entire region should be subject to permanent disarmament.

>>17783526
>I think most neo-nazi groups are actually funded by organizations of people who identify as Jewish
A bit disingenuous don't you think?

>>17783536
>A bit disingenuous don't you think?
By them you mean?