Thread 17785020

Why do Protestants love the modern State of Israel so much? What exactly causes this?

>protestants
*Americans.

Americans, the British, are an incredibly docile and servile people who are told to love Israel and therefore they do. If you ask a normal person
>hey man, do you mind if your tax dollars are used so that a group of insane retards can wage their war of faggotry in the middle east forever?
they would say "no thank you."

>>17785020 (OP)
The roots were laid by dispensationalism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries which viewed Israel as separate from the church. They believed that prophecies about Israel being regathered literally referred to the Jewish people returning to the holy land. When the state of Israel was created in 1948, dispensationalists took it as a sign that the prophecies were being fulfilled. This view swept through American low-church protestant denominations, popularised by books like The Late Great Planet Earth. Coupled with the USA's strategic alliance with Israel in the late 20th century, it created a craze among evangelics for modern Israel, thinking it's the same thing as biblical Israel and is still made up of the chosen people of God.

>>17785091
Very good explanation.

>>17785020 (OP)
Interestingly, both Luther and Calvin opposed the central idea behind this phenomenon, premillennialism, "the belief that the Second Coming will occur *before* the Millennium spoken of in the Book of Revelation, heralding a literal thousand-year messianic age of peace," as Jewish tricks:
>The Augsburg Confession. "Art. XVII., condemns the Anabaptists and others 'who now scatter Jewish opinions that, before the resurrection of the dead, the godly shall occupy the kingdom of the world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed.'" Likewise, the Swiss Reformer Heinrich Bullinger wrote up the Second Helvetic Confession, which reads "We also reject the Jewish dream of a millennium, or golden age on earth, before the last judgment." Furthermore, John Calvin wrote in Institutes that millennialism is a "fiction" that is "too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation".

But where there is chaos so will there be a way:
>The Anglican Church originally formalized a statement against millenarianism in the Anglican Articles. This is observed in the 41st of the Anglican Articles, drawn up by Thomas Cranmer (1553), describing the millennium as a 'fable of Jewish dotage', but it was omitted at a later time in the revision under Elizabeth (1563).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premillennialism

>>17785085
>>17785020 (OP)
The Italian catholic conservatives supper Israel as much as the Americans. And this is true for many other western leaders that are christcucks.

>>17785020 (OP)
*Americans. Most negative stereotypes of Christians only exist because American Christians are genuinely that weird. Like for example:
>The only Christian groups who have rejected the Big Bang and evolution have all been American ones
>Very few Christians believed that the earth was flat, that the earth was 6,000 years old, and that the events of Genesis happened literally as described until those beliefs became mainstream among American Christians in the 1800s
>They circumcise their children, even though Paul explicitly stated several times that you do not need to be circumcised
>They believe in heretical stuff like the prosperity gospel and donate their money to obvious grifters like Joel Osteen
>They blindly support the State of Israel
At this point, I am convinced that the Reddit Atheists of the early 2010s were only ever a thing because many of them were born and raised in the US and were effectively radicalized by these American forms of Christianity. Considering these American forms of Christianity are the only forms of Christianity they’ve been exposed to, I honestly don’t blame them. Their only real mistake is that they assume all Christians and religious people in general act like this instead of just the American ones.

>>17785091
Nailed it. I should again study the Book of Concord.
>>17785264
Don't lump us all in a single bucket. At least call them reddit Christians if you're going to call their cringe reactionaries reddit atheists. That said I don't blame you for being mad at Americans as a result.

Weird how a 6 sided shape surrounded by 6 triangles and made up of 6 lines is so popular with a good portion of American Christians.

>>17785332
Assigning also the value of 1 to each side of the six component triangles produces 666.

>>17785020 (OP)
Growing up Christian I was told reading the bible everyday was a virtue
Have you read the bible? The entirety of it follows the nation of Israel, it's history, it's laws, it's holidays and customs

I remember getting to a part about how to cook a cinnamon cake that I just thought how the fuck is this relevant to my life today

>>17785264
>How fucking dare you say all Christians believe the same thing
>also all athiests are just immature redditors

>>17785347
Bake a cake for God.

>>17785351
yeah
which is funny because not even Jews care about that anymore as far as im aware
I can not emphasize enough that the bible is the law, culture, and history of this bronze age kingdom

>>17785020 (OP)
It makes muslims seethe which is good enough a reason to do something for any Christian.

>>17785264
Calvinism irrevocably fucked the American cultural mindset.

>>17785264
we don't circumcise our children for religious. we do it to prevent cancer

https://insighttoincite.substack.com/p/the-scofield-conspiracy-part-iii
>tl;dr
Jews and certain Brits basically pulled a reverse trap card to "messianic Judaism" to get christians to worship Jews and a British colonial Israel.

>>17785020 (OP)
As a protestant, it's not entirely true..plenty of us don't believe that the modern state of Israel is what is being referenced in the bible as "Israel"
Israel refers to the believers of God, and Christ after his covenant is established. "Israel" doesn't refer to some parasitic desert shithole, it refers to the body of Christ (christians). I too despise evangelical fundie retards who think it's a christians duty to die for random Talmudic pharisees who despise Christ and therefore God

>>17785387
What's it mean if I am a Christian who basically believes what you just said? As in, God directly intervened at certain points but a lot of it is just ancient Israelite writing down their history.

>>17785020 (OP)
any self proclaimed 'Christian' who supports pissrahell is a heretic by definition

>>17785511
Who is Gods prophet?

>>17785020 (OP)
Dispensationalism

>>17785540
I raise you, supersessionism

>>17785387
I cannot emphasize enough the bible is the revelation of the one true God.

>>17785547
"Supersessionism" is a meme word dispensationalists use as a one size fits all bludgeon against their opponents. What the bible teaches is called covenant theology.

>>17785551
How is it a bludegon if it's right? The bible clearly states that the old covenant is fulfilled by Christ and the new covenant under Christ includes all believers, gentile and Jew, under the new "Israel", which is a title, first given to the son of Abraham, for the Gods people. It was never a place. It was always a nation. Those who call themselves Jews now follow the pharasitic tradition, and are the synagogue of Satan, as said by Christ himself.

>>17785560
It's not right because 'supersessionism' implies the dispensationalists are correct about the nature of the covenant at least as it was under the Old Testament, and that now Christians have a totally different covenant founded on totally different grounds. The difference between the new and old covenants is the difference between two administrations of one selfsame covenant of grace.

Galatians 3:15-18
>Brothers, I speak in human terms: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. And what I am saying is this: the Law, which came 430 years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to abolish the promise. For if the inheritance is by law, it is no longer by promise, but God has granted it to Abraham through promise.

>>17785498
I would tell you that it is weird a universalist religion is so obviously the spawn of a nationalist genocidal storm god cult
>>17785548
the storm god Yahweh

>>17785569
This implies that christians are beholden to mosaic law, despite Christ directly saying he came to "fulfill the law"

>>17785577
>the storm god Yahweh
Yes. And the metallurgy God. And the war God. And the God of everything else because He is God of all things.
>>17785578
Christ also said one who teaches you to break the least of these commandments will be least in the kingdom of heaven. Can you say with David "The law of Yahweh is perfect" (Psalm 19:7)? Do you kill? Do you steal? Do you worship idols? Now, some laws were given to Israel to distinguish them from the nations around them, to these the nations were never beholden. And some laws were given for Israel to govern itself, these could not have sway outside of its territory. But the moral laws though unwritten until Moses were always binding on all men before God, on account of which He destroyed the whole world with a flood, and even those other classes are not a dead letter in our scripture, but provide guidance and principles for morality and law to this day.

The Lord fulfilled the law not in the sense He abolished it, but that He kept it perfectly throughout His holy life, which righteousness is imputed to the believer on sole account of which they may stand before God as if they had fulfilled the law. This is what scripture means when it says we are not under the law but under grace. Now in that scripture I cited Paul explicitly identifies Abraham's covenant as our own, and as being founded on the same basis (namely the sacrifice of Christ, who has become explicit rather than merely foreshadowed, and whose work has always been the only way men could be right with God).

>>17785020 (OP)
I think putting the blame on dispensationalism is wrong, as Christians always serve jews, dispensationalism is just the particular way the subservience to jews appeared this time.

>>17785387
Judaism was made up circa 300 BC, well past the Bronze Age.
>>17785451
>Le Global Boger Face

>>17785627
worship marvel funko pops

>>17785637
>Most Central American post of the day award

>>17785640
I'm a white man from the rural midwest.

>>17785641
One of the inbred schizophrenics expelled from Germany I see.

>>17785658
>inbred
If only I could be mestizo like you.

>>17785020 (OP)
Redeemed Zoomer just made a good video with a QRD of how we got here. >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Fl14sgzWw

>>17785661
>O algo if you don't worship rebbe yeshu you is latinx like me

>>17785020 (OP)
I hate them.

>>17785085
The same scourge also affects European politicians.

>>17785159
>>The Augsburg Confession. "Art. XVII., condemns the Anabaptists and others 'who now scatter Jewish opinions that, before the resurrection of the dead, the godly shall occupy the kingdom of the world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed.'" Likewise, the Swiss Reformer Heinrich Bullinger wrote up the Second Helvetic Confession, which reads "We also reject the Jewish dream of a millennium, or golden age on earth, before the last judgment."
That sounds like it's denouncing post-millennialism, not pre-mill.

Pre-millenialism simply means that the millennium hasn't happened yet, and it won't until Christ returns. It does not require pre-trib, which is what dispensationalists are.

Post-millenialism and amillennialism are more about trying to cause the millennial reign (either literal or not literally 1000 years) to happen through human means, and only after that will Christ return.

>>The Anglican Church originally formalized a statement against millenarianism
Millenarianism is NOT the same as pre-millenialism. You seem very confused, anon.

>>17785717
Fake quote, Martin Schulz is a pali cocksucker like every other leftist.

>>17785724
>That sounds like it's denouncing post-millennialism, not pre-mill.
The Jews and Anabaptists weren't postmillennials (the Puritans sure were, though).
>Post-millenialism and amillennialism are more about trying to cause the millennial reign (either literal or not literally 1000 years) to happen through human means
That's a strawman. God the Father caused the millennial reign when He raised Christ from the dead and gave to Him all things in heaven and on earth.

>>17785020 (OP)
Why do catholics defend jews so much?
This is 1.4B people, you cannot deflect by cherrypicking random tiny american protestants
you are cucked and controlled by jews

>>17785020 (OP)

Because Jews are the main characters of the Bible.

>>17785350
Reddit Atheism is basically a denomination. It doesn't refer to all atheists.

>>17785435
Presbyterians are extremely antidispensationalist. They're the only denomination to publicly and explicitly oppose the state of Israel.

>>17785264
I think it definitely plays a role. My father is an atheist (and so am I) and my grandmother was a Church of Christ type (which is practically Salafism), and his attitude towards religion is very New Atheist tier, although I am not like that in terms of personal animosity towards religious people, but I was raised in a non-religious household and didn't have that experience growing up. I've also been influenced by atheist writers who have had more nuanced views of religion. I don't think religion is going to go away anytime soon BTW, nor would I press a button to eliminate it across the earth if I was given the choice. But if I lived under a religious fundamentalist theocracy then I'm sure that I'd be a raging militant atheist.

I'd add that extreme forms of secularism on large scale are really only viable during times of major revolutions (such as the French and Bolshevik revolutions) against religious opponents who are highly dogmatic, oppressive, and corrupt. Like imagine being ruled by the sleaziest, most corrupt televangelists like Kenneth Copeland, and they also kill people. The secularism of the Kemalist movement in Turkey lies somewhere in between the French/Russian revolutions and the laissez-faire secularism of the United States.

>>17785387
Well many of the early Zionists were themselves not religious, and 40% of Israeli Jews are completely non-religious. The Bible for them was a useful myth, and a mythologically-rendered story of where they came from, which they used as part of a nation-building project. And the sort of critical Biblical history where they'd do archaeological digs to see what matched up with the Bible and what didn't became a fascination with these people back in the 50s and 60s. The kind of religious Zionism you see there now, which is mirrored by Islamism and Evangelical Christianity, have developed as time has gone on, and they are essentially secular ideologies which have been re-theologized and dressed up.

>>17785919
>and so am I
And I tip my fedora to you too le sir

>>17785020 (OP)
Because the Christian religion is about worshipping Yids?
Protestants just read the Bible unlike Catholics

>>17785020 (OP)
Abrahamic boomer hyperstition.
They unironically believe that Earth is 5000 years old and that sky troon YHWH will send a third temple from the sky.

>>17785020 (OP)
Ignoring that Luther himself was supported by Jewish owned German Printing press houses and that he was a Judaizer that read Talmud and other books to "unromanize" Christianity, the core of Protestant Zionism comes from British.

During XVI and XVII centuries North Europe was a bulwark for Sephardic communities expelled from Spain that sympathized with Protestant cause. These Jews were there local financial elites. And their interests merged with those of local Protestant burgueoise.

English theologists created a narrative of Britain as part of the 12 tribes of Israel, and that the destiny of England was linked to the restoration of the Jewish state in Palestine.

Guess what.

These Bongs and Dutch, Frogs and Germans colonized North America.

>>17786437
>English theologists created a narrative of Britain as part of the 12 tribes of Israel, and that the destiny of England was linked to the restoration of the Jewish state in Palestine.
The first part of your statement is iffy, and the second is definitely not true. The whole zionist narrative didn't exist until Moses Hess created it, and this was later inculcated into hyper-dispensationalism at the end of the 19th century by Darby and Scofield.

The majority of Americans in the period prior to the close of the 19th century were postmillennialists who thought they were ushering in the era of Christ simply by improving society enough and because they were successfully driving back the primitive tribes. There was no inkling of zionist beliefs which would later appear in the US in the early 20th century, rather it coincided with the spread of the actual Zionist ideology proper, as well as the spread of corrupt Bible translations (not KJV) to wider audiences.

>>17786535
>spread of corrupt Bible translations (not KJV)

>>17785085
>brown, dirty hands typed this post

>>17786542
Compare KJV and NKJV in Genesis 22:17.

>>17785172
You'll never have a pagan theocracy

>>17786548
No.

>>17786535
British zionism did exist since late XVI century. The idea that Israel needed to be restored and that Britain had to play a keyrole on that came from Thomas Brightman at Apocalypsis Apocalypseos against the papist Roman Essautic forces represented by Spain, Austria and its italian allies.

>>17786787
The Germanic Protestant and Jewish relationship during modernity started as a passional romance against papist forces, but after the total destruction of Catholic by Napoleon, that marriage started to break, slowly.

And XIX century Romanticism was some short of re Catholicfication of many Protestant communities due revindication of Middle-Ages and Oxford Catholic movement.

The today's hate between Jews and Protties was totally unthinkable for your average Protestant 150 or 300 years ago. From Calvin to Nietzche. Jews and Protestants were as Batman and Robin.

>>17785515
>goalpost moving and some retarded talmudic pilpul semantics play
I graciously accept (your) humble cohencession
Now to the next topic and to answer your sincere and innocent question:
>Who is God's prophet
The One who speaks for God and gets killed by the jews
many such cases, but One stands above the others

>>17786787
>The idea that Israel needed to be restored and that Britain had to play a keyrole on that came from Thomas Brightman at Apocalypsis Apocalypseos against the papist Roman Essautic forces represented by Spain, Austria and its italian allies.
That's more in line with postmillenialism, i.e. making the earth a better place and somehow ushering in the kingdom of God. Under that view, they identified Israel typologically with themselves. That view isn't tied specifically to people calling themselves Jews who deny Christ going to Palestine.

>>17785020 (OP)
>Why do people support the extinction of pisslam so much???
Gee I wonder

>>17785435
simply not true. you can't take an entire branch of theology and lay at its feet the insanity produced by its demented fringe that actively hates the thing that created it

>>17785091
>>17785264
american evangelicalism is a folk religion loosely derived from historic christianity. this is the single most important thing to understand whenever you want to talk about "why do american christians do X"

>>17785547
nothing was superseded. read romans 11

>>17785435
How come it doesn't affect the Dutch, Swiss, Scottish and Afrikaans then?

>>17787152
lmao

>>17785085
Catholic Hungarians and Shitalians are the most zionist ""people"" in the world

Every kike worshipper is a golem