Thread 17790031 - /his/ [Archived: 746 hours ago]

Anonymous
6/25/2025, 10:16:52 AM No.17790031
Ireland_(MODIS) (2)
Ireland_(MODIS) (2)
md5: 5e4961d2465e098e05262476dbeb9f06๐Ÿ”
Why wasn't Ireland successful in reviving the Irish language? Wales was successful in reviving the Welsh language?
Replies: >>17790072 >>17790317 >>17790554 >>17790590 >>17790729 >>17790919 >>17790953 >>17790991 >>17791901 >>17791920 >>17792723
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 10:19:08 AM No.17790032
>being fluent in irish has been the dominion of uncultured hillbillies for the last 400 years
>more profitable to learn english if you want to fuck off overseas for a better life
>catholic church is apathetic at best to the language's survival
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 11:05:58 AM No.17790072
>>17790031 (OP)
>welsh succeeded where Irish failed
Ireland had a very different 19th and 20th Century to Wales.
>1800s
Most speak it, huge areas are mongolot Irish. Most people live in extreme poverty, and the language is continually suppressed. However, the Emancipation movement's leaders (many of them Irish Catholics) encourage Irish people to ditch the language and just learn English to try and better their lot in life-many do this, due to aforementioned extreme poverty.

Then the 1840s and the potato blight arrive, which are the most devastating to the south and west where the stronges population of Irish speakers are. In the aftermath of that carnage, people are all the more keen to better their societal standing-so they learn English. Irish is nowhere; there isn't an Irish newspaper, there aren't famous Irish writers, it's mostly carried in localised communities.

We arrive in the 20th century to yet more turmoil, but a revival movement does burst forward that's tied to Irish nationalism. However by the 1920s when Ireland became independent:
>very few actually speak it
>every institution, newspaper, piece of literature, signage, etc has been in english for centuries
>speaking english has been labelled as basically the only pathway to prosperity in Ireland for approximately 100 years, meaning wherever the language isn't being suppressed it's being abandoned
>the vast majority of Irish people now speak English
>Catholic Church didn't even start doing liturgies in Irish/English until the 60s (obviously)
Remember, all of the above when in 1911 around 0.3% of the population were mongolot Irish speakers.

Harsh truth, but most people aren't linguists nor big culture-heads and don't want to spend the time and effort to learn a new language when more pressing material concerns are present. If the population all spoke different languages, Irish could have been a unifying force as was the case elsewhere-but most spoke English and Ireland was in the Empire until the 1940s.
Replies: >>17790462
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 2:24:43 PM No.17790317
>>17790031 (OP)
>Wales was successful in reviving the Welsh language?
Only about 20% of Wales speaks Welsh and it's been slowly declining for ever, there wasn't a revival.
Replies: >>17790554
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:19:47 PM No.17790395
Whats so important about holding onto language?
Replies: >>17790413 >>17790545 >>17790573 >>17794570
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:28:50 PM No.17790413
>>17790395
Prevents capitalism from destroying your culture
Replies: >>17790515 >>17792796
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:09:30 PM No.17790462
>>17790072
not really, rural wales where welsh is spoken is also a series of rural shitholes in abject poverty many of whom were subsistence farming until the mid 20th century
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:37:02 PM No.17790515
>>17790413
No it doesn't lol
South Koreans have held onto their language and they live in cyberpunk.
Replies: >>17790565
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:56:20 PM No.17790545
>>17790395
Language defines thinking. You're conquered by other cultures' ways of thinking by abandoning your own.
Replies: >>17791902
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:02:52 PM No.17790554
>>17790031 (OP)
It's hard to say why there hasn't been political will to revive it. All it would take is to teach in primary school through Irish, and arguments against this are insane. Kids aren't going to lose English but they could gain Irish.

>>17790317
There has been a revival. The number of Welsh speakers is equal to the number of primary schools that teach through Welsh. This went up from under 5% a century ago.
Replies: >>17791923 >>17792566
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:13:40 PM No.17790565
>>17790515
Not that much, they have their own music their own martial arts etc, their culture is real and well known

What is Taiwan culture anon?

What prevents capitalism from taking over the island?
Replies: >>17790971 >>17792030
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:17:06 PM No.17790573
1622591809980
1622591809980
md5: 4ef1c60c58b9d4e1614b8ba9f4020ee6๐Ÿ”
>>17790395
Language is the most basic expression of an in-group. Any group that doesn't at least gate-keep language inevitably ends up assimilated into a larger gestalt, which more often than not is completely distant and unconcerned with the former distinct group's particularities and needs
also language barrier is one of the building blocks necessary to build up a distinct culture and tradition. Without it, any cultural renaissance, reform or revolution or counter culture is invariably doomed to be absorbed back, whether noticeably or more often than not unnoticeably, into the gestalt.
Replies: >>17790590 >>17790976
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:27:43 PM No.17790590
>>17790573
>>17790031 (OP)
to circle this back to OP's question, Ireland failed because most of the irish already virtually abandonned the Gaelic language and the Irish Republic was massively scared of creating a new aristocracy/caste system of Gael-speakers first class citizens vs English-speakers second-class citizens after the clusterfuck of the Troubles and the fact that the religion issue wasn't even dead and buried yet despite this.
They can only "softly" force the Irish to speak Gaelic, just as the Anglosphere is "softly" encouraging the Irish English-speakers to speak English only because it's easier to understand the 'Net.
so basically it's "soft" influence" all around and institutional soft encouragement will always lose to organic encouragement, i.e. actually practicing the language with millions of retards on the Internet.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:37:31 PM No.17790729
>>17790031 (OP)
I can comment on the Welsh language a little bit. As another anon said, the Welsh have a very different history compared to the Irish. The historical relationship between the English and Welsh is also very different. Despite being conquered by Edward I, the Welsh were able to reassume leadership at the local level throughout the medieval area and into modernity. The Welsh nobility and gentry class remained much healthier into the 19th and 20th centuries compared to the Gaelic Irish equivalents. This led to the Welsh speaking Welsh and retaining their own culture, aside from their legal systems being replaced by English ones. They were also never a threat to England like Ireland was. By the time the Tudors took the throne, the last real spark of Welsh rebellion fizzled out in with the death of Owain Glyndลตr. Many Welshmen hailed the coming of the Tudors as well, seeing them as proper descendants of their own kings, which persisted with the Stuarts (by Margaret Tudor). Less war and a stronger Welsh-speaking gentry class allowed for Welsh to remain important. It allowed for Welsh cultural societies to make impacts and even the Anglican Church in Wales helped the language continue and recognized its importance by translating books into Welsh and holding services in Welsh. There was no need for the average Welshman to know English then, until industrialization. The mass influx of Englishmen into Wales for work in the coal pits and other industries is what really harmed the Welsh language. Because an incentive was now created for the average Welshman to know English. Couple that with more and more jobs being found in the English-filled and English speaking towns/cities, and further afield in England proper, and the shift really starts to happen. Modern media into our era only furthered the decline of Welsh. But the above made Welsh more resilient and lobbying for Welsh-speaking programs and media easier. So now we have what we have today.
Replies: >>17790813
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 7:17:45 PM No.17790813
>>17790729
The media makes the difference
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 8:30:18 PM No.17790919
>>17790031 (OP)
Because English is based as fuck
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 8:46:37 PM No.17790953
>>17790031 (OP)
Irish independence was won by leftist socialists who hate fellow whites and worship brown third worlders, of course they weren't interested in reviving a European language.
Replies: >>17790961 >>17791905 >>17791906
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 8:50:00 PM No.17790961
>>17790953
>nooo, you can't just manifest and riot in half the country over the newer black and tans we got from oversea, they're the NEW Irish reeeeee
>t. remnants of the IRA
Replies: >>17791906
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 8:53:35 PM No.17790971
>>17790565
>What prevents capitalism from taking over Taiwan?
Anon....
Replies: >>17791024
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 8:55:59 PM No.17790976
>>17790573
What the heck is a gestalt.
Replies: >>17790983
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 8:59:16 PM No.17790983
>>17790976
Gestalt (Oxford Dictionnary Definition) :
>an organized whole that is perceived as more than the sum of its parts.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 9:02:11 PM No.17790991
>>17790031 (OP)
All the "propaganda" about them being an evil, unintelligent nonwhite, non-european, non caucasoid race by britbongs and WASPS was actually just all true all along.
Replies: >>17798852
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 9:12:22 PM No.17791024
>>17790971
Plz don't they got chinese invaded?

They never learn
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 11:41:01 PM No.17791413
Would the Irish language still be alive if the famine never happened?
Replies: >>17791639
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 12:39:31 AM No.17791563
The entirety of Irish culture is fake. its just a chinese knock off of British culture.
Every single part of it, the language, history and myths all made up.
This is why the Irish as a people can never succeed because as a nation all they do is bluff, bullshit and invent tall tales and lies.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 1:16:54 AM No.17791639
>>17791413
Yeah, although at the time Irish leaders at the time of the emancipation of Catholics heavily encouraged learning English. Though without such an apocalyptic clearance of Ireland rural Gaelic Speaking grugs would be the vast majority, promotion of English would be an entirely Unionist affair and would fall off just as Irish politics lost interest in mere home rule.

If it gets its independence it might be more akin to Czechoslovakia then the Ireland we know, with localism and difference between dialects probably causing localisms if not seperate nationalisms, rather than just catholics vs protestants its likely english is limited to upper classes so anglo-irish, wealthy catholics and maybe even normans stay distinct from the celtic speaking masses, the ulstermen protestants would still be gaelic speaking in their vast majority. Ireland is going to be like czechoslovakia with multiple distinct dialects and regional identities with a small elite speaking their former colonizers language.
Replies: >>17791693
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 1:37:16 AM No.17791693
WRONG
WRONG
md5: a9d8cad18cb0a4419c90b418e69971ff๐Ÿ”
>>17791639
>promotion of English would be an entirely Unionist affair and would fall off just as Irish politics lost interest in mere home rule.
ireland's biggest ambition for home rule was an austro hungary compromise thoughever, they even had a standardised gaelic which scots, manx and later even they themselves broke away from, if a mostly gaelic speaking ireland got their way it would probably be highly unionist like wales, they get all of scotland and the welssh and scots isles in the irish sea that they force gaelic on, boom. that giga gaelic getting a parliament is permanently loyal to britain forever and keeps pumping out hundreds of millions of footsoldiers for the anglo empire if they just get their corner to larp as leprechauns and speak gay lick. hell celtic nationalism could have been england's greatest strength give the welsh and cornish autonomy and some english counties to connect to eachother, boom just as with the gaelic kingdom of ireland there's now a brythonic kingdom and they want to liberate their breton brothers in france oh and not only do those meanie argies want the falklands but they're "oppressing" a bunch of welsh in their patagonia? oh look a bunch of spain identifies as celtic, why not liberate the basques to and connect up with the breton kingdom... no if england didn't anglify the celts they wouldn't have broken away as independent nations but the english would still rule the world with two loyal attack dogs who speak their daft languages wear kilts and do silly dances but utterly support and enforce anglo hegemony across the globe.
Replies: >>17791774
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 2:13:09 AM No.17791774
>>17791693
Your entire post is trash because theres no such thing as "celts"
Replies: >>17791841
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 2:47:18 AM No.17791841
>>17791774
doesn't mean the uk wouldn't use it to annex the lands i listed in spain and france. the celtic union being in the uk would be the same as there's a european union despite theres no such thing as "europeans"
Replies: >>17792160
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 3:25:31 AM No.17791901
>>17790031 (OP)
There are parts of Ireland that still speak Irish. Irish television is also often in Irish
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 3:25:43 AM No.17791902
>>17790545
No, you think the same no matter the language. The only difference is that your more adaptable to another culture that shares your language
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 3:28:09 AM No.17791905
>>17790953
> Irish independence was won by leftist socialists who hate fellow whites and worship brown third worlders
TRVTH. Sinn Fein cares more about Palestine and open borders than policies that will help the Irish people
Replies: >>17798140
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 3:28:42 AM No.17791906
>>17790953
>>17790961
The non Irish pop is tiny lol.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 3:40:30 AM No.17791920
>>17790031 (OP)
Are the Irish human no. That breakaway state will soon be conqueted by force and renamed West Britain, and all books detailing Irish culture and history will be burned to ash..NO SURRENDER
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 3:42:38 AM No.17791923
>>17790554
>It's hard to say why there hasn't been political will to revive it
Because the political class in Ireland are not nationalists, they are globalists. They have no interest in celebrating Ireland's history or culture. The only way they can feel pride in being Irish is by judging us against someone else's standard
>we're the highest net contributor to the EU!
>we're first to legalise gay marriage by popular vote!
>we care more about palestine than anyone else
Etc

There is also a push to frame Ireland as some sort of global cosmopolitan hub and erase the fact that we were up until very recently a very homogenous society. Essentially, they're embarassed by the stereotype of Ireland as a backwards, traditional, rural, Catholic country so they're doing everything they can to make Ireland the opposite of that. English is the global language and so being English speaking facilitates foreign direct investment and inward migration, so they. view it as a positive. If we were to attempt to properly revive Irish that would be an assertion of our distinction and difference from others, and that flies in the face of the Ireland they want to create.

Few foreigners, especially Americans understand this about the Ireland of today, they have the idea that the country is run by England-hating IRA types.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 4:37:48 AM No.17792030
>>17790565
But Taiwan is Chinese and capitalist
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 5:58:27 AM No.17792160
>>17791841
Theres no such thing as "celts" ironically the people who are the supposed "celts" were the gauls, aka the French. They were most like the Britons in what became England. All English have Briton and Anglo-saxon ancestry.
Therefore the English are the most "celt" of this imaginary grouping. Yet are excluded by deranged celtist plastic paddies simply for speaking a Germanic language. That the irish also speak.
Nothing makes sense with the irish. Full stop
Replies: >>17792319
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 7:24:41 AM No.17792319
>>17792160
okay but im not talking haploshit im talking if the irish spoke irish and the welsh had their own kingdom theyd be loyal to the uk and a great boon, breton nationalism could be used by the UK to bring them in the welsh nation of the UK the celtic nationalism of the non castilian northern spanish nations, could have gotten them into the uk or britain would at least attempt to do so, ditto for using its welsh now with autonomy justifying expansion into argentina/patagonia due to the welsh there.

you understood i was disagreeing with a guy who said speaking irish would get them independence early, while i posited it would be more likely they would be unionist and be a great boon to britain, and expanding on that the boon wales being given similar autonomy could give the opportunity to expand into britanny and the celtic nationalisms of the time could have been used by the uk to snatch more land from spain and france, right?

notice how i never said the irish should slaughter the british isles and only speak gaelic because theyre a superior celtic race as you seem to imply im suggesting???

if its entirely from 'if anglos never anglified the celts' you got that apologies but i was too lazy to list out every particular one my point was just how if never anglified they could have been a boon for the uk rather than imagining the celts (which if they all spoke said languages id hope youd have less hesitation at them being classified as such) as purely an anti english cudgel
Replies: >>17792553
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 10:14:32 AM No.17792553
>>17792319
Theres no such thing as "Celt" or "Celtic" its not a race or a culture or a people. It's a completely fictional identity. It's pseudo-history and fraudulent.
Replies: >>17792729 >>17796568
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 10:30:10 AM No.17792566
>>17790554
>arguments against this are insane. Kids aren't going to lose English
For whatever reason, parents always think otherwise. Parents think their child can only learn one language and exposure to others is an active threat to them, even though the opposite is true. The first education campaign we need is to beat these kinds of misconceptions out of parents. It is almost certainly the main reason Irish died in the first place; parents actively discouraged it in favour of English.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 10:39:14 AM No.17792575
Speaking distinct local dialect has literally never been a net positive for the economy, and news flash, people care more about having food on their table than "mah culture". You can notice that almost all European languages are converging into whatever is spoken in given country's capital, and local languages are on decline everywhere. In my opinion, within 500-1000 years most of Europe will speak one common language. In northern countries, most people are already fluent in English, with their local languages being on decline. Irish simply got a headstart in this process because conquest.
>what are you talking about, northern European countries still speak their own languages
1. Their local dialects are nonetheless converging into standard languages
2. Shit doesn't get translated into smaller languages. People enjoy entertainment in English. Lectures in English are more and more common in higher education
Replies: >>17792793
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 12:54:41 PM No.17792723
>>17790031 (OP)
>Wales was successful in reviving the Welsh language?
It wasn't, they language has just been declining more slowly.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 1:01:34 PM No.17792729
>>17792553
there's a real language family anon
Replies: >>17794536
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 1:48:55 PM No.17792793
>>17792575
>converging into whatever is spoken in given country's capital
That's not true at all, it's just whatever is the official language. Capital dialects are disappearing too in most countries.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 1:53:33 PM No.17792796
>>17790413
Right, no such thing as soulless capitalism in Anglophobic France
Replies: >>17792801
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 1:59:26 PM No.17792801
>>17792796
Well if you put it that way, I guess there is no real escape from it they will sell the brand to china who will make soulless eau du toilet
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 2:16:33 AM No.17794536
>>17792729
like esparanto
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 2:33:53 AM No.17794570
>>17790395
History. Mythology.
Often translations take words and names, the original meanings vanish.
If you don't know your history and your people's mythology, are you even a people?
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 8:21:06 PM No.17796224
The Republic of Ireland should have made every school a Gaelscoil when the republic was formed in 1922
Replies: >>17796575 >>17796585
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 10:43:22 PM No.17796568
>>17792553
The languages conventionally termed "Celtic" are definitely known to be more closely related to each other than to the rest of the Indo-European languages.
Replies: >>17797025
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 10:45:27 PM No.17796575
>>17796224
For lack of fluent teachers, Gaelscoils have an unfortunate tendency to produce speakers of a sort of pidgin that essentially amounts to English reskinned in Irish words.
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 10:48:37 PM No.17796585
>>17796224
This, useless ahh niggas.

Any other race in their exact position could have the entire island monolingually gaelic speaking by 1923.
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 11:16:15 PM No.17796642
I find it odd how irish parents and irish people in general have this perception that you can't learn both english and irish and it must be one or the other, meanwhile Norway, Neatherlands, Estonia, Finland, France, Sweden and other European countries speak their own native language and teach kids english in school.
Replies: >>17796658
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 11:28:31 PM No.17796658
>>17796642
lazy niggas, if they speak both they'll lazily only pass on english, if they freely can speak both they'll lazily only speak english, no point comparing the green race to white people.
Anonymous
6/28/2025, 12:21:02 AM No.17796777
Reading about Celtic language revival efforts have massively blackpilled me on language revival in general. Native speaker communities of Irish are dwindling, with Breton they are basically already dead and a lot of L2 nu-speakers basically just speak weird creoles (English with Irish words or French with Breton words). Welsh is on the same track, but has more time.

It's so sad. An unbroken chain of language transmission from generation to generation, from Proto-Indo-European to Proto-Celtic to Old to Middle to Early Modern to Modern Irish, now severed. And then some moron from D*blin skinwalks your language not even being able to properly pronounce half of the consonants, anglicizes the grammar and has no idea of Irish idiom. And claims that it's just a new hip and modern "dialect" of Irish for the 21st century. If Irish must die, let it at least have a dignified death.
Anonymous
6/28/2025, 1:50:22 AM No.17796925
>Gaelscoils are extremely popular and parents want to send their kids to them. Gaelscoils keep opening and all the student places for the new year keep filling up
>Irish is a very popular language on duolingo in ireland
>number of irish speakers keeps dropping year by year

What's going on?
Replies: >>17797428 >>17797564
Anonymous
6/28/2025, 2:46:40 AM No.17797025
>>17796568
Thats because its all ripped off welsh
Replies: >>17797444
Anonymous
6/28/2025, 6:16:40 AM No.17797428
>>17796925
>People do not effectively learn Irish at Gaelscoils, and once they leave they never use it again
>Irish is popular as a novelty, it is not effectively learned and garners no use case
Anonymous
6/28/2025, 6:26:59 AM No.17797444
>>17797025
...what? How do you figure?
Anonymous
6/28/2025, 8:02:53 AM No.17797564
>>17796925
Even if they didn't drop, Gaelscoils teach Irish really badly and so do Duolingo.
Anonymous
6/28/2025, 4:25:16 PM No.17798140
>>17791905
>NOOO FORGET ABOUT ALL THIS AND REJOIN BRITAIN BECAUSE BROWNS
i hate westbrits with a passion
Anonymous
6/28/2025, 10:40:50 PM No.17798852
>>17790991
>>17798846