Thread 17790862

>I'm a rational individual, but I am very tired of laboring and consuming
>Life is so boring and inconvenient, but suicide is also really hard and inconvenient, not to mention illegal!
>Luckily, the rational managerial state respects that I have a civil right to die
>I just sign a paper and I step in the pod, what an easy and convenient way to manage sadness!

>>17790862 (OP)
Well yes. Why shouldn't people have the right to terminate their existence if they so choose?

>>17790862 (OP)
It's just a convenient out for elites so they don't have to fix the healthcare system or end poverty.

>>17790894
People can, it’s called suicide, do it courageously or don’t do it at all

>>17790894
Anyone can terminate their existence if they want to, regardless of whether there is a "right." The state promoting peaceful state-sponsored death is what happens when they cannot create a happy world and do not have the will to try or the humility to accept they are wrong.

>>17790903
The problem is that people can and do screw up suicide at much higher rates than you would expect, with a >= 10% failure rate even for firearm based suicide.

/x/ was talking about this lady recently, and she died slowly after a failed suicide attempt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Mitford
>When the United Kingdom declared war on Germany she attempted suicide in Munich by shooting herself in the head, surviving, but with extensive brain damage. She returned to England but never recovered, ultimately dying from consequences of the wound.

Cry about it

>>17790942
If you really want to kill yourself you will succeed. People often shoot themselves at the wrong angle, which is easily avoidable. Anybody who isn’t willing to take their own life shouldn’t have the option of state funded suicide, which also comes with a whole lot more negatives than benefits, like what happens in Canada or the netherlands.

>>17790862 (OP)
OP is on the ball
As a conservative, I am fanatically in favor of state assisted suicide
The only good commie is a dead one
That's the great thing about free societies, people get what they vote for

>>17790957
>If you really want to kill yourself you will succeed.
non-sequitur

>, which also comes with a whole lot more negatives than benefits, like what happens in Canada or the netherlands
such as ?

I don't understand what's the point of these talking points, to whine about "liberalism" or is there some real concern about suicide?

>>17790862 (OP)
>Noooooo you need to live in constant pain from bone cancer until you die choking on your fluids or you’ll go to a hot place when you die!
If you can’t even set the terms of your death than all other “freedoms” are fake and gay.

>>17790975
OP is opposed to assisted suicide because he thinks it arises from liberalism

>>17790903
Dying while high on morphine is better for old and infirm people + less likely chance of disfiguring your corpse

>>17790957
Given the more or less guaranteed severe, lasting damage, I think anyone who shoots themselves in the head can be assumed to be genuine in their intention. Likewise for people who jump from very high heights and people who hang themselves in a way where they were more likely to succeed than not.

>>17790981
I'm opposed to the state making suicide as convenient and formalized as possible, I believe that arises from liberalism.
>>17790978
It's not just people living in constant suffering getting offered MAID in the west any more. It's veterans going to the doctor because they have tinnitus or PTSD or something and the doctor saying "do you want to die? thatll fix you right up!"

Kill people because they are sad.
Kill third trimester babies because they are inconvenient.
Kill old people because they are old.
You can kill pretty much anyone in late stage liberal democracy except violent criminals, really. Those guys are too dumb to consent to dying and we must respect their rights.

>>17790957
>also comes with a whole lot more negatives than benefits
Anyone who believes this honestly should have to spend a day doing wound care dressing infirm old peoples stage 4 pressure ulcers and see if they still think letting them die high on drugs is a worse fate.

>>17790989
> It's veterans going to the doctor because they have tinnitus or PTSD or something and the doctor saying "do you want to die? thatll fix you right up!"
These are the tiniest of minorities compared the vast majority who do it because they are terminally ill and want to get ketamine before they expire. Disingenuous retards like you are why stem cell research has been kneecapped from helping millions.

I think people who disagree with me are mentally ill and euthanasia would be beneficial for them. Change my mind without demonstrating that you have skin in the game.

>>17790942
I enjoy the fact that there are subhuman LARPers willing to toy around with their life despite not wanting to die. I hope your death is extremely prolonged while you're in agonizing pain.

>>17790986
Hanging is in fact impossible to fail.

>>17791144
Sadists should not have a say on any topics.
>>17791147
Then how is it that many people fail it? Less than perfectly chosen materials can tear, their anchors can break, knots can become untied, heads can slip out, people can be found midway through. Also I gather it can be incredibly painful depending on specifics that are hard to account for, so it's imaginable that a person could get themselves out of it just from the pain if they don't die quickly enough.
https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/14/1/39

>>17790903
Why?

>>17791173
Just came across a study where the abstract claims that someone had a five hour seizure after a failed hanging. Idk how that happened, but they must've been really close to dying before it failed or they were "rescued."

>>17791173
If you cannot even kill yourself correctly, why should you have any rights as a human? I don't know how to die properly, yet if I wanted to, I wouldn't fail and a little bit of pain wouldn't overrule whatever caused me to go against most primal instinct of avoiding death at all costs, so go fuck yourself, asshole.

>>17791201
It's simple, it wasn't a hanging. Real hanging consists of your body hanging and not being on the ground with a belt around your neck.

>>17791230
>>17791241
Genuinely suicidal people are often severely, *severely* depressed in a way that makes it a struggle for them to do anything and/or suffering from a physical illness that greatly impairs their capacity to do things more directly. And those impairments might also by chance impair their ability to successfully carry out a suicide attempt.
>If you cannot even kill yourself correctly, why should you have any rights as a human?
This is an evil way of thinking.
>so go fuck yourself, asshole.
Given that you are clearly the evil one here, I can only take this as projection.
>It's simple, it wasn't a hanging
It says it was a hanging. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/19149481_Status_epilepticus_and_near_hanging Idk. IIRC seizures are normal during hanging, so the person could flail around a lot in a way that might get them out of it somehow. Or, as said, they could've been "rescued" mid-attempt.

>>17790989
>Kill third trimester babies because they are inconvenient.
The vast majority of late-term abortions are for wanted pregnancies that became medically problematic. Even in states that allow abortion there are generally more restrictions on the circumstances under which they can be performed.

>>17791259
Genuinely suicidal people kill themselves first try. I know this because my classmate one day didn't come to school, his parents didn't know where he was either. He was found hanging later that evening. You're just a subhuman who deserves to keep suffering because you're incapable of even killing yourself.

>>17791264
>I know this universal claim based on one data point

>>17791259
Rescuing from hanging is impossible, proper hanging snaps the neck, no seizures either, because you become a vegetable in an instant.

>>17791267
I am a human, a very intelligent one, and I don't care about retards. Retards deserve to suffer for being retarded.

>>17791271
Okay, sociopath.

>>17791276
You live in a world where most animals have to suffer excruciating pain of being eaten alive and complain about nobody catering to your low IQ inability to point a shotgun at the back of your throat correctly.

>>17791283
I think that is in fact a bad thing. Suffering is bad, exactly as common sense says it is.

>>17791268
That's how execution by hanging works, not how DIY hanging typically works. IIRC you need to fall some distance for that to happen with some reliability, and it also requires a very strong rope to reliably withstand the jolt.

I don't want to have a detailed discussion here of everything there is to know about suicide because that's probably against the rules, but I think a lot of people are very poorly informed on the topic, and that definitely plays a part in way the failure rate for various suicide methods is as high as it is. People mistakenly think it's much easier than it is.

>>17791287
My ancestors evolved beyond dumb animals only because of ability to suffer, you're still just a dumb animal.
>>17791289
Any cheap rope you can find in hardware store can hold up a car, fuck off retard.

>>17790940
Because those opposed to assusted suicide have been working so hard to make the world a better place and clearly people would only kill themselves due to massive sociological problems and not personal reasons. I don't think anyone has ever killed themselves because they were in crippling debt, but I know a lot of people who killed themselves over the natiomal debt.

>>17791299
The world is a good place because we don't waste resources on subhumans who will figure out how to die eventually.

>conservative position on some topic
>look inside
>pure evil
It doesn't happen every time, but it happens often enough to be disturbing.

>>17791302
Okay retard

>>17791313
I'm not the one struggling to kill myself despite having access to internet.

>>17791294
>Any cheap rope you can find in hardware store can hold up a car, fuck off retard
I haven't looked into this too deeply, but I imagine that the sort of rope that can pull a car is going to be too thick and inflexible to make a truly effective noose. There really is a balance that has to be found and "Just grab the first seemingly suitable materials/opportunity you think will work" is exactly how people end up with permanent damage that may or may not eventually kill them on its own. Again I don't want to turn this conversation into a tutorial, but also I do think that more people being aware that it isn't incredibly easy to reliably kill yourself might be net-positive. At least, it would result in people doing less stupid stuff (e.g. chugging bleach, like that won't just be an absolute nightmare that doesn't kill you), and it might also make people more sympathetic to legally sanctioned euthanasia which could be quick, certain, and painless.

>>17791358
Maybe you should look into this deeper or stop LARPing about suicide.

>>17791363
I have looked into it pretty deeply in general. I've just never personally handled the "rope that can hold up a car" that you're referring to, so I'm not sure that would work. I do know that considerably less strong ropes can be too thick and inflexible to make a reliable noose.

>>17790862 (OP)
In Michigan there was an American Hero named Dr. Jack Kavorkian. Chat GPT


Dr. Jack Kevorkian was the Michigan physician who became infamous for assisting in approximately 130 suicides of terminally or chronically ill patients. His methods, legal battles, and willingness to challenge laws shaped the national discourse on the ethics and legality of assisted suicide.
Let me know if you'd like more details—such as the legal landscape back then, the devices he used, or the ethical perspectives involved.

>>17790894
This kind of thinking just makes me even more convinced that people need to be saved from themselves

>>17791370
So you know literally nothing. You just want taxes to be wasted on expensive chemicals so spineless faggots can die the easy way (except it's not foolproof and chemical suicide can easily cause more suffering than hanging yourself twice).

>>17791394
I don't think you're someone who should go around telling that they know nothing. Animals are euthanized quickly and painlessly with great reliability all the time. Humans could have that too. And I imagine a lot more tax money is spent rescuing and keeping alive people who don't want to be alive than would be spent on euthanasia.

>>17791409
Here on the farm, we drown kittens and shotgun old dogs. So do you want to be drowned or shot in the face with hundreds of steel balls?

>>17791424
I think it's impressive how you've managed to make me, the guy who thinks assisted suicide should be legalized, look unquestionably like more sane and compassionate person by comparison. Even I'm not sure it should be that easy.

>>17791446
You're anything but sane, you're low IQ subhuman who thinks his opinion or life matters.

>>17791241
Full suspension is not the only form of hanging. You could hang yourself using your doorknob, technically.

>>17791473
No you couldn't, hanging requires actual hanging, and involves breaking the neck. Asphyxiation is retarded and niggers who equate it to hanging need to be beaten until their limbs need amputation, so they can be left to rot alive in hospital for decades.

>>17790862 (OP)
Only some forms of it. And nearly all of those need a shitton of qualifiers for it. Take Canada, for example. Yeah they have MAID, but only the terminally ill or severely disabled can opt for it.

>>17791482
You are still wrong no matter how angry you get.

>>17791482
>hanging requires actual hanging
As long as you generate the proper force to break your neck then it's a hanging. Oftentimes the Asphyxiation occurs before the force can full snap the neck. not even classic "hanging" is an instant process.

>>17791517
>>17791520
I now understand how it's possible to fail suicide, holy shit you aren't even human.

>>17790894
Because the mentally ill cannot consent. If a 100% sane non-depressed non-crazed individual wants to die then yeah, it should be their choice. But someone with depression is mentally ill and thus cannot make that decision for themselves.

Lots of crying in this thread

>>17791007
I won't try to change your mind because you're clearly out of your mind and must be institutionalized or euthanized.

>>17791424
It's not 1920 anymore you barbarian. Stop being a cheap bastard and just drive your pets to the vet and pay to get them put under.

>>17790862 (OP)
NGL this probably works out better for me. If one day I am old, in pain, and/or have reason to make my exit, it would be much better to enter a suicide pod than splatter myself on the pavement. Odds are I won't have anyone to watch over me in old age anyway, and I will probably be in poor health. So might as well go.
>>17790896
Also this, but the social question is a part of it as well. In the case of many old people, if there is no one to take care of them, it would probably be easier for them to use the pod. So you'd need to fix the former to deal with the convenience of the latter.

The reason suicide is so controversial is because it's a one-way street you're not coming back from. You can take lots of drugs for example and you might even enjoy being a druggie as a coping mechanism for your shit life, but even with drugs there is still a path to sobriety, when you're dead you're just fucking dead. So most people are skeptical when someone says they want to die because it's a permanent solution to temporary problems, and suicide is typically seen as something someone does in a moment of emotion and weakness, not as a premeditative thing that you get conscent from doctors for.

>>17792270
>but even with drugs there is still a path to sobriety
unless you are one of the millions of american zombies abandoned to cartel exploitation, in which case laced drugs may cause your arms to rot from the inside.
nobody cares or does anything for these people though.

>>17792270
Most people are skeptical, because those who really yearned death have put themselves right into it without explaining why, because they don't answer to anybody and do what they want.

>>17792256
You will only be in poor health if you're some neet loser rotting inside 24/7 instead of getting "inhumanly" strong just because.

>>17790862 (OP)
liberalism starts out in good faith, with campaigns against easy, moral targets (abolitionism, freedom of speech, male suffrage) then expands over time to things normal people will tolerate (minority and women suffrage, civil rights) then finally butts up against what most people find a bit repulsive but accept in a kind of 'well so long as it doesn't affect me' kind of way (gay marriage, 1st tri abortion). but then the liberals run out of things to campaign on, and seek out the very margins of conscionable things to campaign for (abortion up to birth, assisted suicide, experimental hormone therapy for kids, mass third world migration, etc.) where the snake starts to eat its own tail, and the moral public (the centrist 80%) back out, and start retreating, even starting to question the 'well so long as it doesn't affect me' liberal wins once they realize where that led them, and to the 10% of extreme right, they stop campaigning on just anti-abortion and other single-issue-voter issues, but start to get a sense the whole liberal mindset is corrupt from the get... and they have a point. Liberalism is shaping into a death cult in the 21st century.

>>17792432
Yeah that's probably what will happen. Hopefully not. But probably.

>>17792438
There are definitely death cults within western civilization, but liberalism as a whole just feels like it's just become a force of entropy. It emancipated us from things we didn't think had any civilizational value, and is now unable to accept that they might have had value, or is otherwise finds bringing back those things unconsciousable, leading to a managed decline where we just rot away into nothing without trying to make too much of a fuss about it.

>>17790862 (OP)
I fully expect in the coming few generations, if we don't get our shit in order, it will be considered selfish and egotistical to stay alive past your economically productive years. You won't be "net-zero" if you don't get the cattle gun at age 55 and thus face increasing tax burdens of the environmental damage you are inflicting. Mind you they don't want you to have children either, they want the birthing to occur in places where atrocity and poverty are the only rules. When the future generation of worker replaces you they will be working for less pay and longer hours, but they will consider it a privilege not to be trapped in the hell hole they were previously. AI will take over management roles and be perfectly productive and insightful, the need for seniority will diminish. You will live in the pod, you will own nothing, and you will be happy.

Maybe a bit played out, hmm? Maybe you heard this one before? Go do a deep dive yourself, look at what they create at the institutions where they draw the elite from. They build a self-replenishing caste system into even the homes they make, the absolute epitome of evil.

>>17792256
Why can't you slit your wrists then? Lmao
>Even to die I need to pay and involve the state
ffs, cattle, the lot of you

>>17790862 (OP)
Medical Assistance in Dying is WONDERFUL, because liberals are the main group who use it.
Add to the "women being moms is heckin bad" feminism narrative and you have low liberal birthrates
Add to that liberals bringing in tons of ultra-conservative immigrants.
Canada is basically a perfect storm of longterm liberal annihilation that they brought on themselves LOL.

>>17793923
The feminist narrative is not so much "women being moms is heckin bad" as "women being forced to be moms is heckin bad". Unfortunately, it turns out that women having only as many children as they actually want without any external compulsion, at least under current material conditions, results in below-replacement birthrates. I'm not sure what to do about this.

>>17793888
>Why can't you slit your wrists then? Lmao
Someone hasn't spent much time in the psych ward

>>17794184
>The feminist narrative is not so much "women being moms is heckin bad" as "women being forced to be moms is heckin bad".
Eh. It often devolves into the former.

>>17794510
Why would I need to spend time there?
Why cant you fags just slit down the lane, not across the street?

>>17790894
Because then society couldn't extract every bit of labor from you it possibly can before you died of natural causes. You choosing to opt out and leave early is bad for the bottom line.

>>17794184
>I'm not sure what to do about this.
Just bring in immigrants. You're never going to convince those people to have more kids anyways. It's too much of a hassle.

>>17794702
What about when the countries the immigrants are from develop further economically and their birth rates start falling too?

>>17792438
That just means that the stupid chuds need to be crushed. Just like communism was

>>17790862 (OP)
>suicide is also really hard and inconvenient
No its not. Anyone can just get rope, find a bridge, or pain meds.
Slit your wrists, blow off your top, use a skyscraper as a diving board, electric heater bathtub, etc, etc.
Are there people who seriously do not understand how relatively fragile the human form is?

Anyone who thinks suicide is already ridiculously easy and convenient for everyone should have no problem with legalizing assisted suicide. It seems like under that assumption all assisted suicide does it make it easier on everyone else. No mess, no surprise.

>>17795166
Assisted suicide makes it harder on my wallet so no, fuck you.

>>17794662
Because they don't actually want to die.

>>17796266
You could legalize it as a for profit thing. If it hurts your wallet so much.

>>17796301
You can already buy a shotgun, which is very profitable to the seller.

It's the logical conclusion of the modern state which attempts to control everybody from the moment they are born to the moment of their death. Total control over life and death is the end goal of the state. Decline of birth rates is a natural result of the policies implemented by virtually all modern states because the state doesn't like people being born outside its design. Soon the only people born will be people conceived at the state's explicit direction, under state-sanctioned breeding programs. The ultimate end goal of that is to completely remove "traditional" breeding from the picture and simply grow new citizens in artificial wombs using synthesized sperm and eggs which are derived from living parents but who otherwise have no role in the creation of new life.

Total dependence on the state: the state is the reason you were conceived, the state oversaw your gestation and birth, then places you into a child-rearing program and oversees your development into an adult citizen. From there your life will be controlled by a variety of state apparatuses to make you as productive as possible during the decades of adult life allotted to you, before you are forcibly retired and eventually "assisted" into death once the state determines keeping you alive is no longer useful.

>>17796303
I cannot. Furthermore, I may fail and and get hospitalized for life, in which case it will come off your pocket.

>>17794184
>The feminist narrative is not so much "women being moms is heckin bad" as "women being forced to be moms is heckin bad"
But those are effectively the same thing. Nobody besides women can be mothers, and if women don't become mothers society dies out due to there being no future generation to continue society. Ergo women are "forced" to be mothers by necessity. Any society which does not "force" women to be mothers will not continue long enough for women's liberation to matter in a few generations.

>>17794702
Scenario A: the immigrants you bring in adopt feminism and as a consequence they have barely any children and the fertility rate does not increase, so you've effectively stalled the problem for a little while, but society is still going to suffer a population decline death spiral once you run out of immigrants.

Scenario B: the immigrants you bring in don't adopt feminism and women are "encouraged' to become homemakers and mothers. Population goes up, but women's liberation is effectively rolled back. If you think you can "eventually" sway these people to the feminist camp then you simply reset the population decline doomsday clock.

>>17796311
Shotguns take your whole head off, it's impossible to fail. And even if you do, I'm willing to pay for your prolonged suffering caused by nobody else but you yourself.

>>17796326
Nobody cares, midwit, societies collapsed thousands of times and bounced back trivially, it's a literal nothingburger.

>>17790862 (OP)
Under atheism, there's nothing wrong with suicide, or murder, or anything else, really.

>>17790862 (OP)
>Is "Medical Assistance in Dying" just the logical conclusion of liberalism?
To an extent yes, but medical assistance suicide irl revolves around old fucks suffering for months and costing everyone too much money. Unless you want to talk about a hypothetical scenario where people set up "suicide shops", medical assistance suicide isn't liberalism's pinnacle.

>>17792438
>liberalism is when gay trans black people
/his/ and the rest of 4chan should introduce a mandatory test to post on boards. I'm so fucking tired of hearing the most retarded takes on this board.

>>17795110
>Slit your wrists
You take a kitchen knife and violently stab yourself. You start bleeding a lot but it eventually stops or only induces a mild faint. Mission failed

>blow off your top
Not necessarily lethal (>10% cases of gun suicides survive) and impractical to people without firearms

>use a skyscraper as a diving board
You jump off the third floor ... and land on a bush . You break a few ribs and your legs, but survive

>electric heater bathtub
Luckily for you, the safety of the electric heater goes off and nobody gets hurt (except your electric heater) !

You'd be surprised anon, people's body are much, much more resilient then what they think

>>17796360
There is, actually. Well, it depends on the atheist. Under moral nihilism your statement is correct, though.

>>17796315
So what should be done? I don't want to accept being a second-class citizen because of my gender.

>>17790989
>the west
>liberalism
it's just Canada desu, everywhere else restricts assisted suicide to the terminally ill (or bans it even for them)