Thread 17794584

Why did so many Europeans move to the United States? Why were they able to succeed in the US, but not Europe?

>>17794584 (OP)
Really depends on what time period and ethnic group you're talking about

>>17794584 (OP)
Home countries were poor, overcrowded, and often they were discriminated against religious minorities. Others wanted to avoid mandatory military service.

they were often illegally trafficked into the US by their peers, like the mob, who then housed them in the US and extorted them of all the money they made here

>>17794611
what about it was illegal? there was no UN or Declaration of Human Rights then

>>17794584 (OP)
Their countries were oppressive shitholes.

>>17794627
And the US wasn't?

>>17794630
Back then The American Dream WAS real, for a tiny percentage of those immigrants at least but it was definitely real.
America wasn't as mutted or oppressive as it is now.

>>17794630
The US was anarchy by comparison to early 20th century Europe

>>17794636
Tell that to southerners.

>>17794584 (OP)
Lebensraum

>>17794584 (OP)
Europe sucked then and it sucks now
>but but but
The largest British Diaspora is in the United States. the largest German Diaspora is in the United States, the largest Russian Diaspora is in the United States, the largest Italian Diaspora is in the United States. Irish, even French, United States, Spanish, third largest in the United States, same with Portugal. There are over 10 million Polish Americans, the largest Austrian Diaspora outside of Europe? That's right, USA.

Yuropoors on the internet always shit on America while simultaneously wanting to live in America. I call it Poor's Paradox.

>>17794584 (OP)
Because the US was unironically a much better place to be than Europe for much or its history. Europe has caught up and is really nice now to the point it just depends on where and what you want in life.

>>17794584 (OP)
Lots of people will never admit this but the US is extremely wealthy and was for most of history. No matter how much seething average European will spew online he can't stop the cycle of British, French, German and Scandinavian doctors moving to the US and them having to import medical personnel from shittier places. Same applies to engineers and other professionals. The only really ambitious career people who you can be certain will stay in Europe are lawyers and that's largely because their education is for obvious reasons worthless outside of their own countries. This is btw. why the US has high tech economy and the EU has high regulation economy, the most competent people in the US are private sector professionals while the most competent people in the EU are lawyers.

Thomas Jefferson wrote once that America was 300 years ahead of Europe in science, politics, and religion.

>>17794620
Ellis Island wasn't set up to facilitate legal immigration, it was set up to try and curtail illegal immigration. Italians and Jews etc had been flooding into the US since the 1890's to try and get a slice of the pie.

even during the Depression Americans weren't really that poor; they had abundant access to cars, railroad travel, cameras, radios books magazines sporting events etc while those were costly luxuries for most in Europe at the time, very often only available to the government or the elite class. Europe did not have a proper middle class until the postwar years and even then of course only for Western Europe.

>>17794850
>The only really ambitious career people who you can be certain will stay in Europe are lawyers and that's largely because their education is for obvious reasons worthless outside of their own countries.
Higher education in Europe never entirely escaped the Middle Ages, it remained focused on the arts and humanities rather than practical or technical skills. Discussing Goethe is more valued than learning engineering or somesuch.

>>17794865
No. There are plenty of engineers and scientists coming out of Europe but when the salary of a German engineer generally tops at the American average and there's much more tax burden on said German engineer, on top of a lot of living expenses being higher(fuel, square meter of housing etc) the ones who are really career focused just move to the US.

>>17794865
>Higher education in Europe never entirely escaped the Middle Ages, it remained focused on the arts and humanities rather than practical or technical skills. Discussing Goethe is more valued than learning engineering or somesuch.

In such fairness this applies more to Eastern Europe. Yeah their educational systems were never set up for practical skills just for the children of the ruling class to learn art and pedagogery.

>>17794584 (OP)
Define succeed, most of them remained working class poor people and only their kids or grandkids actually became middle class or wealthier.

Germany was always one of the wealthier parts of Europe and going back to the late Middle Ages at least had the largest overall middle class on the continent.

>>17794630
Pre-1940z USA was pretty relaxed for a typical European migrant
>No military conscription outside of the 4 years of Civil War
>De facto free land out west
>No landed gentry with aristocratic titles and regulations
>Standing army is miniscule
>No secret police
>90% of state authority you'll deal with is just local county level politics
Contrast that to the European powers which had Secret police (Okhrana), mandatory army service even in peaceful times (Prussia, France, etc), landed gentry who controlled 99% of and restricted land usage (Britain), no freedom of religion (anywhere under Ottoman rule, or de facto Russia) etc.

>>17794584 (OP)
They didn’t succeed. They became criminal faggots who helped destroy the country or were rewarded for undercutting Anglo-Saxon labor.

>>17794654
>while simultaneously wanting to live in America
*their great grandparents wanted to live in America
All those diasporas you listed are like 90+ year old communities (minus the Russians, who are mostly 1990s Jews from after the Soviet Union collapsed). America in 1910 was the best in the world yeah, but that's the past, you're a Has Been resting on his dusty laurels. In the present, nobody in the good part of Europe wants to downgrade their quality of life by moving to a country with higher crime rates, lower life expectancy, poorer food quality and regulations, no worker rights, etc. there's simply no reason or benefit for a Norwegian or a German to move to the US today in 2025.
>t. 4th generation New Yorker of Italian roots

>>17794882
American troops and officers in both world wars noted Germans' overall prosperity and clean well-run towns and cities compared to France which felt grubby and backward.

>>17794865
>He doesn't understand how different countries have different educational systems
Europe is filled with technical schools, bud. Also the French École Polytechnique is the literal gold standard for Engineering institutions worldwide, an X alum engineer is basically nobility in the field. America based MIT off of the French model.

>>17794890
You realize that wogs like yourself shouldn't cast stones in rat piss soaked cardboard hovels

the United States is the only nation in the world that has constitutionally protected freedom of speech. all other cunts have restrictions of various kinds.

>>17794890
>In the present, nobody in the good part of Europe wants to downgrade their quality of life by moving to a country with higher crime rates, lower life expectancy, poorer food quality and regulations, no worker rights, etc
Except for highly skilled professionals.

>>17794905
>the United States is the only nation in the world that has constitutionally protected freedom of speech. all other cunts have restrictions of various kinds.
>I have worse health care, social safety nets, workers rights, average life expectancy than a dozen European nations but it's ok because I can deny the Holocaust
The absolute state of you.

>>17794890
This is cope. Every group I listed continues immigrating to the United States even to this very day. The United States has the largest immigrant population on Earth. It recieves roughly 700,000 Immigrants from the United Kingdom, 550,000 from Germany, 420,000 from Poland, 400,000 from Russia, 350,000 from Italy, 170,000 from Portugal and France, ANNUALLY on average. And that's just European countries. The US recieves over 2.4 million Chinese immigrants annually for example. I know you're a coping Yuro, but keep coping, your people still want to move here despite how shit you think it is, because your country is simply worse.

>>17794584 (OP)
For much of the Westward expansion, the government would just allow people to claim their own land. Provided they're willing to work it, build their own homes, and defend it.

It required ruggedness and courage, but that's a helluva opportunity to make something of yourself.

>>17794912
welfare shouldn't exist, neither should most of the US government. If I could flip a switch and all bureaucrats and NGO eggheads disappeared I would.
https://youtu.be/p3oUHn1gOAY

>>17794918
And yet if you ask most Europeans if they'd rather move here, the majority say they don't.

>>17794932
Without most of the US government we'd be an unregulated mess like a third world country

>>17794584 (OP)
About a 1/3 of the immigrants in the 18th and 19th Centuries went back to their home countries.

The US wasn't the promised land they thought it would be.

>>17794890
>>t. 4th generation New Yorker of Italian roots
You're not American Giuseppe

Today Sweden is the shining land of social democracy and a high tech ec...not so in the early 1900s when it was a poor agrarian shithole and nearly a quarter of the population emigrated.

>>17794936
The states would rise again my friend, the STATES

WE DID IT BEFORE BOY

>>17794937
>About 1/3rd of immigrants were deported
FIFY

>>17794945
It's actually true, the conditions were so terrible and they were all competing for the same jobs. Papists were telling their sheep to turn their ships around

>>17794933
Most Europeans don't have opinions on anything let alone where they would or wouldn't rather live, the average Euro in 2025 is just a walking meat robot

>>17794948
t. Meat robot who thinks everyone is like him

>>17794654
TRVTH NVKE
Euros absolutely crashing out rn

>>17794584 (OP)
Poor unpatriotic Europoors of Italy, Poland, and shtetl kikes were the Ellis islanders. They're spiritual Mexicans and it was the Ellis Island which was a gateway for the judaic infilitrator.

They were low iq and abandoned their nations for a chance to pick at thr wealth of the Anglo man.

Before the late 19th, america was a Nation of White Northwest Europeans. Anglo-Salons and adjacent people's.

>There was in the 67th New York Infantry a young German named Sebastian Muller who came to New York City in 1860 and wandered the streets for months unemployed as he spoke no English and times in this land of opportunity were harder than he'd supposed. The war came, a recruiting officer got him, and he wrote a proud letter back to the folks in Germany declaring "I am a soldier in the army of the United States to fight the rebels of South America for a sacred thing...that we also want to have the slaves freed, the trading of human beings must have an end and every slave should be set free and on his own time."

>The 67th mustered out June 20, 1864 but Muller had enlisted in October 1861, meaning that he still had a few months of service left. He and a few colleagues were transferred to the 65th New York to finish out their three year enlistments and two days after the 67th disbanded Muller was a picket on the VI Corps front and a Confederate sharpshooter spotted him and put a bullet in his head. A German comrade wrote to his parents that God's ways were inscrutable, that Muller died painlessly, and was given a decent Christian burial, and that was that.

>>17794850
Nigger what? (((Lawyers))) are Gods in America, especially the judges and law schools are considered prestigious institutions with a high bar for entry while in Europe its just a university course like any other.
Americans are much more obsessed with Law than Europeans.

>>17794975
that's because Euros consider the law the state's business and not theirs while every American imagines himself chief justice of the Supreme Court and or the president

>>17794975
>Americans are much more obsessed with Law than Europeans.
Nothing to do with that. America practices the principle of "Guilty until proven innocent" in our legal systems, whereas Europe doesn't. This is also why the US has things like bail as a concession for court cases whereas Europe doesn't.

>In the 19th Massachusetts was an Irish sergeant named Mike Scannell, who'd earned his chevrons by carrying the flag at Cold Harbor, and in the II Corps debacle over by the Jerusalem Plank Road Mike and his flag were out in front and were taken by the Confederates, one of whom came at Mike with a leveled bayonet as he growled "You damned Yankee, give me that flag!" Mike looked at the bayonet-wielding Southerner and said:

>"Well it's 20 years since I came to this country and you're the first man who ever called me a Yankee. You can take the flag for that compliment."

>Nothing much had happened. A German who could not tell Virginia from South America had seen a sacred thing in the war and died for it and an Irishman after 20 years of rejection had been accepted, at the point of a bayonet but in the language of his time and place, as a full-fledged American.

>The synthesis was taking place.

>>17794984
>Guilty until proven innocent"
sorry I meant the reverse, I wasn't trying to make a statement I swear I'm innocent

i live in Romania. we don't have real rule of law nor freedom of speech and anyone with IQ over 80 emigrates to Western Europe.

>>17795000
you've also got a bunch of gypsies

>>17794984
Of course Europe has an assumption of innocence in criminal law, thats an absolutely basic thing in any modern law system. The inquisitorial system is also much better than the adversarial one because your freedom doesnt hinge on how charismatic your attorney is. In the German speaking areas the persecution is also required to investigate both against and on behalf of the accused too which takes a huge burden of the defense.
Finding evidence and witnesses on your behalf is what makes lawyers in America so expensive. In America money keeps you out of prison, not the law.
Europes problem is that its fucking pussywhipped so they hand out ridicuously short, lenient sentences. America can be downright draconian at points but overall their sentences are much more appropriate. The whole system is also much more considerate towards the victims of crimes, unlike Eurofags who obsess about protecting the criminal.

>>17795000
>ex-communist cunt is an authoritarian shith...
Shock?

>>17795018
Nobody cares retard, nobody uses the German Law system. Most countries with a legal system use the English Common Law system, including the United States

>>17795018
it's mostly the South that believes in "hang 'em from a rope" justice

>>17795018
South America is as cucked. the average sentence for murder is about 5 years and parole.

>>17795018
How is it determined that Getman prosecutors made a reasonable attempt at investigating on the accused's behalf?

>>17795018
>Finding evidence and witnesses on your behalf is what makes lawyers in America so expensive.
Lawyers in the United States are free

>>17795018
>DUUUH IT DON BE LIKE THAT IN *FAAAART* GERMANY *SHIIIIT PISSS FAAAART*
Why is every single Kraut on the internet like this?

>>17794856
>Ellis Island wasn't set up to facilitate legal immigration, it was set up to try and curtail illegal immigration.
This is a big claim to make. Do you have any proof of this? I need to see where the government says this.

>>17794936
>No, you don't understand, I NEED daddy government to wipe my ass!

>>17795053
Why would the government say that it allowed millions of people into the country without documentation? They don't even like to talk about how the highest paid government position in the US was the port authority in NYC which was who was paid by the ships to offload illegals

Different reasons:
>Early German immigrants: Minnonites fleeing military service
>Irish/Scottish immigrants: fleeing British colonization and the resulting poverty
>Italians: criminals looking for a quick buck in America
>Welsh immigrants: to claim cheap American land
>Eastern Europeans: fleeing Eastern European shit

>>17795066
The official title is "collector of the port of new york" which was an honorary title meant for high level party officials to get paid off and then use their lavish salaries to "donate" back to the party

>>17795069
So america gets all the cowards who run from problems. Explains alot. That's niggers beat you upside the head everyday.

>>17795080
nignogs live in ghettos

>>17795081
Ghettos they ran you out of.

Like I said. Americans are cowards by blood.

>>17795080
Which continent again?

>>17794890
This.
I have been to states now multiple times due to work related reasons.
It is a shithole. Every state that I have visited has been a shithole.
I haven't been to Texas yet but I'm fully convinced that it is a shithole as well.

>>17794630
The US used to be liberal as hell. Farmers literally got together and made their own roads.

>>17794975
Yes but if you get medical degree you can go be a doctor in the US for 4 times the salary you'd get in WE while as a lawyer you have to retrain and jump the hoops again(getting the degree is a simple university course but actually pursuing formal legal profession and not just consultancy job etc. is another story).

>>17794865
Brainlet take. Technical education's on a separate, established tier of technical schools, which grant university-equivalent degrees. The main problem of Euro universities, from what I remember from reading up on it, is that they focused too much on mass education and too little on research.
The old Academia tradition of experts meeting specifically to talk shit about their own field of expertise was buried pretty hard during the 70s or so.

>>17794932
Tocqueville pointed out that bureaucracy being stun-locked by retarded reform schemes was one of the chief reasons why the French Revolution became a happening.
They spent about four years without anybody knowing how anything was to be done and in the fifth year, they started drowning nuns and priests.

>>17795018
>trusting the guy prosecuting (You) to investigate on your behalf
>Trusting the judge who already decided there's enough evidence of your guilt to be tried in the first place

>>17795037
Lawyers are only free if you can't afford one (as in you're already destitute, you can't just opt for a free public defender if it is determined you're able to pay for it) and public defenders generally just try to avoid trails and just make whatever plea deal the prosecutor will offer them to buck you off their caseloads

>>17795022
>Most countries with a legal system use the English Common Law system
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/common-law-countries
38 vs 110, apparently.

Behold the face of a law giver and weep, Founderlets.

The US has a lot of land for the taking. Every last inch of Europe had already been claimed centuries ago

>>17794584 (OP)
you're not better than other americans

>>17795018
Sweden and Finland can be a little too lenient but overall European sentences are generally appropriate. Murder in Germany carries a mandatory life sentence, generally with the possibility of parole. In France short sentences are automatically suspended I think, but if you commit a serious violent crime they don't fool around.

>>17795126
Which states/cities?

>>17794918
>It recieves roughly 700,000 Immigrants from the United Kingdom
What the fuck are you smoking? The US doesn't even take on that many Mexicans annually these days, there's zero chance in hell that many Brits are moving to the US in this day and age, otherwise WASPs wouldn't be a literal endangered species in the United States

>>17794940
If I ain't American then neither is Coppola, Al Pacino, Scorcese, Sinatra, or Enrico Fermi
But also, my grandmother was literally English and born like 5 miles from a town where the original Puritans came from lmao.

>>17795046
Pot calling the kettle black my niggermutt.

>>17795018
>how charismatic your attorney is.
Most often not. Trials are very rare. It often comes down to pleadings and a judge trained in the law examining your arguments.
>German speaking areas the persecution is also required to investigate both against and on behalf of the accused too which takes a huge burden of the defense.
Prosecutors are ethically required to not prosecute people they believe are innocent and to reverse convictions they know are wrongful. The only argument there is that they don’t because they don’t want to do the work. In that case, congrats, you’re discovered why no system is perfect.
>Finding evidence and witnesses on your behalf is what makes lawyers in America so expensive.
Not even. I get paid what I get paid because people are willing to pay me that. I have my prices because all of the money and time I put into becoming a lawyer had better be worth it.
>In America money keeps you out of prison, not the law
Reddit-tier understanding.

When you have an entire barely populated continent of stolen indian land to farm on, mine on and build cities on, everything becomes much easier than in crowded europe.

>>17794984
>America practices the principle of "Guilty until proven innocent" in our legal systems, whereas Europe doesn't
The absolute state of american education.

>>17796792
It's also true that many servicemen took wives in Japan or Europe after WW2 and these women sometimes found to their disappointment that life in America wasn't always as wealthy as they'd imagined it to be.

>>17796824
This is key to the plot of the novel/movie The Bridges of Madison County. Also a very highly underrated musical.

>>17794918
>If I lie hard enough, someone is bound to believe it!

>>17796928
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/27/u-s-immigrant-population-in-2023-saw-largest-increase-in-more-than-20-years/
https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2019.B05006?t=Place+of+Birth&hidePreview=false

Why do so many Europeans shit on America online when so many Europeans want to live in the United States and still immigrate to the United States in significant numbers?

>>17794943
And it was shit.
>>17795057
I also like it when they take care if my defense and medical since the state is shit at it

>>17795488
>literal endangered species
>still considered majority
I don't think you know what a majority is.