Thread 17814073

Did medieval Mexicans (Aztecs) interact with American Indian tribes? And to what extent? I think it's cool they both have feather headdresses, did they get that from each other?

>>17814073 (OP)
Since some Indian tribes were more of the hunter/gatherer type that migrated I am sure it is possible the Aztecs encountered other native tribes

>>17814073 (OP)
Yes, and the feather headresses come from the Incas originally who got them from across the ocean. They were the first colonizers of the Bering Land Strait Indians that predated them.

Picrel are Taiwan natives. Somewhere in Asia is where the feather headdress tradition started.

They had complex trade networks and diplomacy methods. For example many tribes from the US southwest would only have diplomats be women or would have shared trade agreements rather than direct interaction. There is evidenence that free trade was really important to these people.

Some examples of some interactions are with Ramamuri, Talamanca, Tiwa, and more via trade. However, direct interactions tended to be mediated through specific peoples. Some examples include the cultures such as the Hohokam in Arizona and the Patayan in folowing the Colorado river which had strong ties with Mesoamerica. The Hohokam built ballcourts similar to those used in Mesoamerican ballgames even before the Aztecs develoepd their Confederacy and before their Imperial period. However, these relations carried over as other cultures took over and much as the Aztecs’ predecessors inherited their relations.

We know this because various tribes seemed to have spaces for diplomacy with Mesoamerican peoples. The sinagua pueblos had ballcourts for types of diplomacy rituals. We also know this from finding trade goods. Pueblo Indians tended to have materials from artifacts such as marine shells, macaw feathers, exotic pigments, and copper from Aztecs and also seemed to recieve goods from further south in Latin America that would trickle up such as materials from the Bribri tribes of Puerto Rico.

>>17814073 (OP)
The Aztecs never left the valley of Mexico. They had a network of long distance traders, some of whom probably made it all the way to aridoamerica. No actual large-scale cultural exchange or clashes though. The mesoamericans considered the semi nomadic people of northern Mexico to be retarded barbarians with little to offer.
>>17814160
Based schizo.

Bump for history

Did Aztec women really look like THIS?

>>17815363
no

>>17815373
>we could have had a society of delicious reddish-brown women with their titties out of it wasn’t for christfags

It’s not le fair bros

It is interesting to note that there is evidence that Uto-Aztecan languages had a huge influence all over the region and this may have been because of mutual interactons. People from the ancient gulf of mexico and people from the historical cochise peoples southern archeological tradition seemed to have imported and use terms from the language. Pic is of a a technical book that captures this well.

>>17815381
not really, the artist just draws women topless when the focus is supposed to be on the skirt, it's not supposed to reflect reality. the average aztec woman would have worn the dresses on numbers 18 through 22 and would rarely, if ever go topless in public.
that being said, public toplessness among women was a common features of several other mesoamerican cultures, like the purepecha.

>>17815391
and sheer dresses were apparently a pretty common thing all over the region as well so there's that

>>17815391
>>17815394
Interesting thanks for sharing anon

>>17815381
Even if the Aztecs were never conquered, the Aristocracy would have eventually modernized and adopted European influences from trade

>>17814073 (OP)
There's a pretty well established trade-line connecting Mesoamerican civilization to Oasisamerican (the region in Arizona, New Mexico, etc that had town building agricultural societies like the Pueblo, Hohokam, Salado, etc) cultures: Chocolate, rubber balls, macaws, etc were traded up by Mesoamericans to the Oasisamericans. It used to be thought that turquoise was the main good the Mesoamericans were trading for, but it turns out most/all of the turquoise found in Mesoamerican art was actually sourced within Mesoamerica

I'm not clear on the chronology of this: As I understand it, the Mesoamerican-Oasisamerican trade occurred within a specific time period, but I think I recall seeing different date ranges or maybe a second period of trade? By which I mean, I am not sure if it would have been ongoing during the time the Aztec and other Late Postclassic groups were around, but that's probably my own lack of research on this specific topic then it being unknown.

As far as who was doing the trading, I often see it specified that the traders were from Southern Mexico, the implication I often get being that they were likely Mayas (I assume due to the Macaws) and that the trade made have actually been direct rather then through intermediaries. But apparently based on some recent reading and questions I asked, the former is apparently not clear, and at least some researchers (maybe even the consensus?) disputes the latter

On the note of intermediaries, through even further indirect, A to B, B to C, C to D style trade, and this being indirect is pretty certain, there is evidence of Mesoamerican goods reaching as far as Oklahoma, as a Mesoamerican piece of obsidian was found at Spiro Mounds, a Mississippian town (the Mississippians, like the Oasismaerican, built small to medium towns, at times the Mississippians actually had sites like Cahokia that qualify as urban cities, though still with mostly wood and earthenwork architecture and infrastructure)

1/?

thank god for mesoanon

>>17816070
when will we get an andeanon?

>>17814073 (OP)
To call the native peoples of that area "Mexicans" is like referring to the natives in the north as "Canadians".
These are native names appropriated and transformed by the whites. "Mexico" was how the Spaniards referred to this place they conquered. Prior to this, it was only another name for Tenochtitlan.

>>17814160
>originally who got them from across the ocean
mm, implying that no two people with similar problems can come to the same conclusion. "heya hoya, we've got all these feathers from dead birds. what do we do with them? i dunno, lets check in with china."

>>17816280
>native names appropriated and transformed by the whites
oh no, the sacred names. feel bad, do it now. apparently, people give names to things in ways they find convenient. if the aztecs had been the aggressor and victorious, everything would be some sort of "titlan".

>>17816332
I'm guessing you saw the word "appropriate" and thought I was implying it was bad and racist? I meant it in the way that they took the word and made it their own.

>>17815373
Number 10 looking fresh af.

I would rock that look.

>>17814073 (OP)
Sure. The presence of mesoamerican agricultural inventions, like corn, in the north is enough proof.

>>17814292
>For example many tribes from the US southwest would only have diplomats be women
humiliation ritual

>>17814073 (OP)
The azteks migrate south from what's today Texas into the Mexican valley, they're the same evil stock as the commache

>>17817744
Nah, it is generally agreed upon that the Aztecs and other nahuas most likely originate from the Bajio region in Mexico, which isn't even close to the border let alone Texas itself

>>17815373
>those clothes
Holy fuck, 300 years of Spanish rule did nothing to improve Mexican women's fashion sense except by giving them a slightly wider variety of cloths and dyes to choose from.

>>17815391
Blacking teeth was also big in East asia. I wonder why that is. I assume blackened teeth gives a smooth uniform look that yellowed teeth wouldn't, and it's easier for them to dye it dark than to dye it/bleach it white.

>>17815812
VGH, imagine what if we'd had an Aztec restoration like Meiji restoration or late 19th century Thailand, with Mexica noblemen wearing Prussian-style military attire and Mexica ironclads off the coast of Veracruz. Imagine the kinematographic disputes between the Reformed High Temple and the Low Temple followers of the Mexica Folk religion, and also the foreign-backed wars between the Westernized-but-not-Western Great Mexica Empire vs the Christian and Western United States of America.
If only Moctezuma had decided to pursue anything like a sakoku policy instead of blindly trusting foreign missionaries and groups of armed men.

>>17817744
Probably some proto-yutonahuas but not Aztecs.

>>17817744
>The azteks migrate south from what's today Texas
0 evidence for this retarded chicano meme

>>17815391
Honestly, we should bring that back for hotter climates. The European style suit is frankly ridiculous for cultures near the equator and having traditional or national dress that exposes the body (in the context of formal wear) should be more accepted.

It's nearly 40c here every day and I'll be damned if I wear a suit. If there was a topless/semi topless wear, I'd go for it in a heartbeat.