What actually was it about communism that didn't work?

>>17816431 (OP)
Greed is an inherent part of the human spirit, nobody wants to share their possessions with the needy

The socialist system did work (the ussr was the second largest economy during the cold war) but gorbachev and his friends slowly took over and started deliberately destroying the country, basically expelling republics from the ussr and destroying the eastern bloc, doing everything their masters from the west were telling them

HA
XD

>>17816460
It wasn't a pro communist rhetorical question, it was a genuine question on why it kept failing and what aspects caused that failure.

>>17816431 (OP)
It's culture and economics. They stole science from the Nazis and Americans btw.

>>17816507
I mean to be fair America also stole a lot of its technology from the nazis.

>>17816431 (OP)
In Russia it was collectivising agriculture before socialising industrial production and over focusing on Military industrial rather then anything else. Also being lead by a retard who reversed all of Stalin's good ideas and doubled down on all his bad ones during the start of the Cold War didn't help

>>17816431 (OP)
Letting libs worm their way into the party gradually after ww2, until they were strong enough to restore capitalism for personal enrichment
Stalin should have done another purge in like 1950

>A small cadre of revolutionaries is going to acquire a monopoly on all economic, military, and political power, effectively command 100% of the country’s resources, and then, for no reason at all, will give it all up and retire to plow their fields. Also money won’t exist and no one will be in charge of anyone else ever again.

This is literally what communists believe lmfao

>>17816563
Two more purges comrade!

>>17816563
However I do wish Stalin had lived a few more years to wreak havoc on the jews because of the doctors plot, but that’s not because I’m a communist, it’s because I’m rabidly antisemetic.

>>17816506
Got it, the short, short version
The breakdown of the price mechanism causes markets to be unable to respond to consumer preferences
Instead of the amount of bread, butter, guns, being determined by market forces, that is, regular people, those amounts are determined by government committees, which of course have no idea what they are doing
Corruption and incompetence rule
Black markets spring up to satisfy latent consumer demand
People increasingly flee the white market, in favor of grey and black markets and at that point all semblance of regular economic order breaks down

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/why-socialism-always-fails/

>Under socialism, incentives either play a minimal role or are ignored totally. A centrally planned economy without market prices or profits, where property is owned by the state, is a system without an effective incentive mechanism to direct economic activity. By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature and is therefore doomed to fail. Socialism is based on the theory that incentives don’t matter!

>>17816431 (OP)
>what
pretty much everything in communism was a failure except killing people

>>17816431 (OP)
Probably because Malenkov got ousted by the retard faction after Stalin died.

>somehow a mobster that drove around a car robbing caravans in georgia became the leader

>>17817339
The funny thing is, after the war and his first stroke boomer Stalin would tell the same stories about his robberies to government functionaries and other guests on repeat and they’d all act impressed like they were hearing them for the first time.

>>17816431 (OP)
Man evolved because he was free to use his senses and mind to ascertain reality. We conquered the planet using this unparalleled intelligence. To initiate force om a human, to bypass his own mind and consent, is to mistreat him. That's simply not what humans are built for. Free market is the only way to thrive, and communism is the complete opposite. Communism holds a human as an irrational beast that must be curbed by the worker's party to keep him from "committing" individualism.

>>17817346
You're acting like real life cowboy stories aren't cool

>>17817590
No, it was an admittedly humanizing moment

>>17817495
>Another fucking retarded lolbert who doesn't think economic coercion exists
And you're wrong with your little psuedo-evopsych bit. Human beings in their most "natural" state of hunter gatherer bands is the most communal state of existence we're ever had.

>>17817752
>communism works when we’re ooga booga cavemen but gets ditched when human society actually has to build civilization

This isn’t the own you think it is.you’d actually realize it’s a self own if you had like 15 more IQ points.

>>17816431 (OP)
>Economic calculation problem if you want to be precise
>Leftism literally being satan worship at its core if you want to be blunt
>The economic knowledge problem, human nature and the illegitimatacy of the enlightenment if you want to be reasonable
It's fundementally flawed.
To the point that it took a USA analouge and instead of conquering from France to Japan and developing land to build actual societies it became a shithole in under a year when it was declared and onwards whenever it was tried
Soviets were really and USA analouge if you think about it, one is just bong libs and the other continental libs;
>Rockies
>Urals

>Mississippi
>Dnieper

>Mexico
>China
>Canada
>Krautland

>>17817752
This is literally the jewish political mytosis but commie lol
>Oh no humans realize our bug collectivist death cult is horrible
>Quick let's bring out bug collectivist death cult lite and dress it up as if it's their ideology
It's not like the main gripe Mussolini had with the communists was the war and the idology itself
this totally not a commie variant 12957349 guy didn't then go on to basically invent modern corporatism
gee tankie-kun next you'll tell me he didn't mean it when he said FDR was doing what he wanted to do in fascist italy
and that Keynes mistakenly founded the 1917 club and expressed his full support for Lenin before shitting the field of economics to become a bunch of govt paid chart cucks deranged with the gaydeepee

>>17817752
Cooperation is important and can elebate humans to new heights, but it only has moral credit when mutually agreed upon. It is the most beautiful part.

>>17817787
Mussolini left socialism because he was a nationalist retard who was butthurt the Italian socialist party didn't support war credits to the Italian state for joining WW1. A war pretty much everyone, even the biggest dipshit righttoid niggerbrains would agree, in hindsight was a disaster and the most pointless waste of human life and resources ever, especially so for Italy.

>>17816431 (OP)
Scientific socialism (communism) was predicated on the Hegelian dialectic and constructed a system of "capital" that was in opposition to the workers. It synthesized from whole cloth a class of persons with shared interests in opposition to a worker class with shared interests. According to the model of Hegelian Dialectical history, there would inevitably be a conflict between these classes, and based on Marx's model of the factory system, he hypothesized that this would end in favor of the workers, and thus the next stage of history would be decided by the workers.

The reality of economic models though is that classifications can be subdivided to the level of the individual, and thus the dynamics of economic behavior aren't as simple as worker vs. capitalist. Workers, capitalists, politicians, middle managers, etc. compete for power in a complex system. The dialectical model doesn't allow for the existence of such factors, and thus wouldn't allow what James Burnham correctly predicted: that large, administrative bureaucracies would actually come to dominate the structure of government.

Therefore, communism would not necessarily have ever resulted in workers seizing control of history. In reality, as we saw, communist, "Capitalist", and fascist states were large administrative bureaucracies competing over conflicting visions of state interests, level of control, and primary objectives. As >>17816607 points out, there were certain core assumptions in Soviet-style communism that were incorrect and caused the system to spin out of control.

>>17816431 (OP)
Communism was too ideologically exclusive, one-sided and intolerant, and there was no theoretical limit to the amount of power and control that communists granted themselves. That is, they came to think anything that is not important to them as not important. If one is in the opposite camp politically, they were opposed and their ideas disregarded.

You have to think a certain way and that leads to a tyranny over everything. The elements of truth which did exist in the ideology declined in proportion to the real power the communists took for themselves until there's nothing left but power worship and hate. There's no longer any truth in what the state is saying, but there's a total monopoly on thought, to protect the monopoly of the communists and their rule over everything. The kind of exclusivity and ideological discrimination strikes at people at a deeper level than other forms of discrimination because it concerns the mind, which is the most brutal and total type of tyranny:
https://youtu.be/xvC1e4STgAo

The North Koreans have probably the most effective version of it. In most countries that tried it, communist rule resulted in a dark, mass apathy among the population concealing immense angst and disgust with their communist rulers that would occasionally explode in violent strikes and assaults on communist HQs:
https://youtu.be/w-2E1ZXMYgw

>>17816578
>Destroy the state!

>>17817808
>Mussolini left socialism
No, he left communism for a new branch of socialism because commies wanted to use the war to somehow start an international peasant revolt.
Seeing how retarded that sounds, baldy locks went and built his own communist state but with nationality at the front rather than class, unless you are dismissing %99 of modern socialists who also ditched class but for race, Il duce was about as socialist as your average leftist today
>>WW1 was a mistake
For humanity in general, yes. For the fed, ministries and republicans, it was the single greatest achievement they have ever had achieved, and they still fail to live up to it.
>Monarchies abolished because they were somehow guilty despite the fact that the governments involved either sidelined or directly disobeyed their monarch's wishes, implying that technocrats were pushing silent coups in the time period
>Germany loots itself to an outdstanmding extent and everyone leaves the gold standard, this is never really fixed after the war. almost as if there was an push against checks on monetary powers of central governments of the era
>Massive conscription drives of men,wealth and material in general under totalitarian control of either a bureucrat, a cabal of brueucrats or a general, done so proffessionally that it required train time tables and paper, not even computers, cars or sophisticated social engineering. As if entire departments of education, finance, war were actually dedicated to do this rather than their stated goals, amazing succeeding despite the wishes and later regrets of everyone else involved.
>Establishment of globohomo aka the leauge of nations, self explanotory
It actually makes sense to think of it as a good plan executed ad hoc from roughly the death of queen Victoria rather than a perfect Illuminati conspiracy tier plan executed according to some timetable on an 18th century fags desk as the text up above would imply though

>>17817902
>Seeing how retarded that sounds, baldy locks went and built his own communist state but with nationality at the front rather than class
Not really the same thing. The communists really did wipe out the existing class structure (the plot twist is they built a new one with themselves as the new ruling class). Mussolini didn't do that.

>>17817893
>Liberalism is too ideologically exclusive, one-sided and intolerant, and there was no theoretical limit to the amount of power and control that communists granted themselves. That is, they came to think anything that is not important to them as not important. If one is in the opposite camp politically, they were opposed and their ideas disregarded.

This is a clear projection.

All communist countries were corrupt backwards authoritarian shitholes before the revolution, so it's not really surprising they remained so after the revolution, and were thus outpaced by the west.

>>17817925
Liberal republics. You're thinking of liberal republics. Vietnam, Korea, Cuba, Russia, China were all run by corrupt backwards liberal republics until communists came along to fix the situations

>>17817907
Mussolini disturbed the hierarchy as well, just because he didn't try ro completely write off the concept of hierarchies and fail(duh) like your average commie doesn't mean he didn't disturb the hierarchy like your average socialist
He used the already subversive state apparatus which i blamed WW1 on on my last post to concentrate power on the fascist party and his nationalist socialism instead of an international socialism.
Essentially sidelining shit libs, which is why he managed an actual bloodless revolution
Generally his ideal of a total state society and his actual fasicst society were akin the the commies ideal of a total classless society and their actual socialist society
Thus his failure to realize his ideal society is inherent to the core of socialism rather than fascism or communism

Too high IQ for this era

>>17817929
>Vietnam
Went from rising living standards and quality of life with a variety of industries depsite an unstable government and constant terrorism to barely not starving rice farmers in the year of our lord 1975 before gamergate
>Korea
Both sides are their distinct form of hell, gooks are fucking insane psychopaths, one of the most dystopian far eastern culture one could think of, teach a gook calculus and he will calculate the concentration camp. Even worse than protestant autism
>Cuba
Literal definition of a brown shithole, even more than mexico
>Russia
Went from arguably europan country with prospects of workd power to a corrupt shithole rotting from the inside so hard, ultimately all that is left is a shell of its former self
>China
Read my statement about Russia for a general assesment
as flavor, China won't "collapse" in two weeks, neither will it likely be the no1 superpower
it will probably be "always" be "pretty strong" for years on end until it suddenly and very violently collapses so hard, China will likely see a warlord era tier collapse the kinds of which have never been seen before in chinese history
It is unlikely that anyone would see the Chinese collapse with any accuracy, including the chinks
Since the very things that keep it from being disturbed from "pretty strong" are the things making it impossible to determine or fix the problems with China.
This is mostly an exasperation of existing far eastern cultures and their tendency of traditionally effeminate collectivism

>>17817808
>Mussolini left socialism
Someone doesn't know his theology

>>17817929
>liberal republic
>Tsarist Russia
Are you okay?

>>17817961
You're not actually explaining why liberalism failed in all of those countries and allowed communism to reign.

>>17817967
The tsar stepped down voluntarily and a short-lived failed liberal republic took power. That government collapsed so quickly to the communists that I don't even blame you for not knowing about it.

>>17817981
The provisional government lasted for 3 months and the Soviets were in complete control of most major urban areas
Better luck next time

>>17817978
What i said was that your statement that commies were somehow better than libs in the group of countries was false
>On account of why libs failed
They were replaced by a more radical faction of the enlightenment.
As most revolutions tend to leave only the most radicals in power
This is also why commies fail as well. You can see this in the rise of fascism/national socialism.
The irrational seethe of libs against commies or commies against fascists is evident and this is why

>>17817996
No, the provisional govt was pretty stable per russian standards, it's literally aurelian tier secretary shenanigans
>Kornilov affair