One thing I've always noticed differentiates the "modern" european empires vs the ancient ones, is the lack of prominence of the masculine in its imagery. The british empire was a woman with a lion, and its most notorious queen, is a queen. A woman. The masculine element is not foundational. It's only useful. For "duty" to the queen. To the "nation".
So I've did some research.
If we look at the distribution of J2 and R1b Z2103, two haplogroups associated with mycenaeans and anatolians, we notice, that at least for the european part of the distribution, it looks suspiciously like the Roman Empire borders.
If we harmonize with data about east med autosomal admix, we notice that the Y-DNA contribution, leaving aside Italy and Greece, is extremely unbalanced to the percentage of total autosomal. Sometimes it's 2X.
This is comparable to Iberian levels of Y-DNA replacement in South America terms of ratio, obviously less recent, and overall less impactful in absolute numbers, but the ratio is insane. Basically a mass cucking. The only one in European recorded history? To not mention the massive civilizational misogyny of Greeks. In all periods.
Are there any other examples of empires or tribes that had this much of unbalanced male mediated admixture in europe proper? (Aside from IE obv) Are the romans, to this day, the most masculine empire europe has ever seen?
Excuse the sotadic zone post (not really)

>>17827159 (OP)
Dude, meds are feminine as hell.

>the most masculine european imperial population
That would be Nords and Germanics.

For some reason you think building an empire is masculine, but it's the opposite. Being turned into a cog for some globohomo empire is feminine. Females obey. Masculine would be to stay barbarians. Which is exactly what the groups I mentioned did.

>>17827159 (OP)
>>17827161
the absolute state of /his/

>>17827161
I think there is a massive difference between modern and ancient civilization that you're ignoring. You're accustomed to 1000 pages law books and taxes, but mycenaean greek civilization wasn't like that. It was like a warband with extra steps. Hence the men that swore loyalty to it could spread their Y-DNA with ease and in large numbers. Ancient civilization was for men by men. Modern is by men for women.
Iberians are a special case because even though they are civilized they arrive in south america in "barbarian" fashion(pass me the term) There is no laws of engagement. Something broke in civilization building when rome fell. It became.. gynocentric to some degree. As if the taste and quality of life of women is something that matters.

>>17827161
>meds
Latins are Celts and Greeks came from northern Europe.

>>17827167
Latins were southern shifted celts but by imperial times they were not. Greeks were pretty swarthy. But that's unimportant.
There is something they had that we lost.
It's not about nord vs med.

>Greeks were pretty swarthy

>>17827159 (OP)
Roman thinkers themselves noted that the more 'civilised' races in the east became decidedly submissive and feminine, and we can see ourselves the decline of public morals in Rome during the later republican period (noted by Cato the Younger for example).

>>17827174
Who cares about women? Women are not greek because they have no race or loyalty. They're holes for the highest bidder.
I'm talking about the men. Majority of samples are dark haired and intermediate skinned.

>>17827177
This is true, but even in the decline, that is more about entropy and mutational load than civilization per se imho, the roman empire still was a masculine civilization. To its very end. Can't say the same for the british empire. French empire is a mixed bag. German empire, though less impactful, could be called masculine.

>>17827177
Testosterone decreases all of the traits that would be considered necessary to live in civilized society. When you have hard laws to sanction transgressions eventually you knock those men out of the gene pool. If you send them off to war and they knock up local foreign women instead of your own, you execute them for breaking the law, and you take away their property and deny them the opportunity for real economic gain what do you expect?

>>17827187
This is exactly the problem with modern civilization. Infinite laws to protect slutty daughters, and disenfranchisement for the men that are expected to do things out of honour. The incentives are all messed up. Greeks never had these problems.

>>17827190
Greeks didn't live in (((modernity)))

>>17827174
They made her looks up, then morons go "oh look this is what she looked." No, there is a difference between how they depict and how she actually looked like.

>>17827167
Doesn't matter how much you spam your mental illness, it will never become reality retard

>>17827167
>Greeks came from northern Europe

You are so delusional it's hilarious, literally wrestingfatsoitsstillrealtomedamnit.gif level of delusional coping

>>17827174
This is just the cover art of a book of a feminist author about the role of women in ancient Greece, it's not an actual reconstruction, nordicists are hilariously delusional and desperate

They are mediterenean not european

Stop trying to steal achievements judeoanglo

>>17827526
>that image
True, but it's been transmitted by means of electricity and the internet, and in English. Which trumps everything.

>>17827461
They came from Bulgaria and had mucu steppe, then went so south and mixed with farmbugs (logkas)

>>17827844
>means of electricity
invented by a serbian in the united states of america
>the internet
invented by united states of america
>in English
american english*

>>17827159 (OP)
In a way our view of viewing the masculine virtue, aside from disgusting feminist subhuman inclination, is deeply roman.
The high risk high reward, personal ambition, level headed but still preoccupied with the collective caesar archetype is kind of peak western masculinity. Ideal.
The british "protect le bri ish women" masculinity is deservedly mocked, as women are worthless whores.

>>17827526
Mediterraneans are European and white, but you are neither Mediterranean, European, or white

>>17827179
>>17827241
>>17827468
Mudblood copium at it's finest. The ruling classes of ancient mediterranean states looked Nordic and this fact triggers brown we-wuzzers to the core. I just find that funny.

>>17827161
This. Also the most famous Byzantine Emperor (Justinian) was a pussywhipped cuck who took orders from his literal ex-prostitute wife (who continued to appear naked in front of other men after the fact).

>>17827526
you're a shit colored incest baby arab though, not a med.

>>17827880
You do know that the last Roman king was overthrown because he 'manipulated' the wife of one of the patricians into fucking him right lol

>>17827910
Yeah the ''nordics'' with aquiline noses and curly hair lol, keep wewuzzing because your ancient history was mudhuts and illiteracy for thousands of years, shitlerite ape with inferiority complex

>>17827965
"Mudhuts and illiteracy" is literally what shitskins are doing today (and always have, of course)= while the nordics are busy ruling the corporate world, brownie boy.

>>17827917
>you're a shit colore incest baby arab though, not a med

Implying the Romans were ever ''white'' like you pasty nordic apes who see the sun twice a year LOL

You illiterate mudhut shitters needed to be civilized and taught to read by a bunch of brown meds, and to this day you are a bunch of autists who can barely speak to foreigners without crapping your pants, where's the culture and literature ever created by the unfeeling autistic ''nordics''? your ''culture'' to this day is social alienation and shit food, give me a break

>>17827981
The guy in the pic is literally just a sunburnt white dude

>>17827159 (OP)
The early Iron Age Roman and Etruscan genes were J2b (not J2a) and R1b-z2108 (not the other R1b.z2103 subclades found in Anatolia). These people were the original Romans of Anease, Romulus and Remus and the of the Kingdom of Rome and the Etruscan city states. Then bell beaker Celtic invaders from Gaul came in and added themselves to the elite. Then we have 500bc-1AD Roman practice of inhumation so we cannot be sure if the original Roman’s took back the reigns or it was Celtic elite there on out. Considering that all Roman busts in that era look Dinaric I think it’s the former.

>>17827995
Sorry I meant cremation not inhumation. The Romans only began practicing cremation from 500 bc to about 150 AD.

>>17827858
>Electricity was first made available for public use in Britain
>Tim Berners-Lee (British) invented the world wide web
>English is from England
You are very welcome. We will have no more of your childish petulance now, you have been told, behave yourself. Good boy.

>>17827971
Judeo-Anglonic society is for the benefit of the Indian and the Jew.

>>17827159 (OP)
Early Rome, yes. After they beat Carthage they became disgusting

>>17827985
Just a sunburnt ma'am, most nordic apes under the sun become lobsters, they don't tan like that. Phenotipically the Romans looked NOTHING like nordic apes, curly hair, aquiline noses, shorter stature, bigger eyes (nordic people tend to have tiny eyes), literally they were completely different people both culturally and phenotipically, nordoids wewuzzing about being romans is just completely shameless and it stems entirely from the fact that you have a pathetic ancient history of ooga boogaism but at the same time subscribe to a supremacist wignat ideology, so history doesn't make sense in that delusional framework and you resort to wewuzzing

>>17828018
Nordic Chads literally invaded, sacked and took over the Roman Empire, go read a history book, brownie.

>>17827159 (OP)
Considering how prevalent homosexuality and pedarasty were in ancient Greece and Rome, the answer would be no.

>>17828065
Browns are doing that today in Europe and America.

which ones the real italian?

>>17828065
There are a lot of black ''chads'' who do the same to thousands of homes and stores around the US, but I doubt a shitlerite wignat like you would hail them as ''chads''. Destroying and stealing is not culture, when they sacked an already severely weakened and decayed Rome they were still illiterate barbarians and they left nothing behind in terms of culture/art/literature/architecture after the byzantines were done with them

>>17828065
The Goths went extinct and Germanics lost a ton of territory to Slavs due to it.

>>17827981
that's nice bilal, now make another tiktok about israel bombing your house

>>17828187
Dude, you are arguing with a jeetcel

>>17828065
Rome did not fall to the Germanics. Rome was already fucked up even before they were forced to migrate to escape the Huns, they only took a decaying Rome, it would be like thinking that Mexico would give the USA a beating without being after decades of immigration, miscegenation and loss of values, which is happening and will fatally undermine the US in a few decades.

>>17828255
>4th century
Germs of the Roman territories were already citizens because of the Nafri emperor Caracalla and the majority of the Roman army on the border with Germania. They boasted of being the successors of the Romans, but they could not even defeat their non-citizen brothers finish destroying Rome.

>>17827981
You might have a point if we were all shitposting in some romance-language bastardisation of latin on reggaetonchan, manolo, but you're seething in english so that makes any point you're attempting to make redundant

>>17828333
>says using the latin alphabet, which comes from the greek alphabet, which in turn comes from the phonetician alphabet

Maybe if you weren't an infantile amerishart man-child seeing everything in terms of ''my favorite wrestler is better than yours'' you would realize that it's not a contest, but I know that's asking too much of you, Cletus

>>17828333

>>17828077
>Sextus Empiricus wrote that among the Germanic people sodomy was “not looked upon as shameful but as a customary thing.”

>Bardaisan of Edessa wrote that “In the countries of the north — in the lands of the Germans and those of their neighbors, handsome [noble] young men assume the role of wives [women] towards other men, and they celebrate marriage feasts.”

Tacitus wrote about Germanics hanging homosexuals along bandits/thieves on trees and stabbing them during their sacrifice to Mercury (who had a transgender son/form known as Hermaphroditus), and 1000 years later the Eddas wrote that Odin died in the exact same way and that he practiced Feminine Magic by transforming herself into a witch.

>>17828405
https://www.iflscience.com/worlds-oldest-runestone-may-have-been-carved-by-a-woman-77882

Daily reminder that Odin was called by Loki a faggot in the Lokasenna Edda for practicing feminine magic (Seiðr).

>Loki Said: “But people say that you practiced womanly magic on Samsey, dressed as a woman. You lived as a witch among the humans — and I call that a pervert’s way of living.” (Crawford Translation)

>Loki spake: "They say that with spells | in Samsey once like witches with charms didst thou work; And in witch's guise | among men didst thou go; Unmanly thy soul must seem." (Bellows Translation)

Odin dressed/lived or did shapeshifting (he has already transformed into a serpent, an animal associated with the female sex/water/chaos, to steal the Mead of Poetry) as a woman to learn his ability to see the future. This is a case where we have the other myths that Loki is referencing to show that he didn't just make this up. That magic was associated with women alone. 'Pervert' and 'Unmanly' here are very cleaned up translations of 'argr' that is best equivalent to 'faggot' in modern English. A derogatory word for homosexual man.

>In Old Norse, seiðr (sometimes anglicized as seidhr, seidh, seidr, seithr, seith, or seid) was a type of magic which was practised in Norse society during the Late Scandinavian Iron Age. The practice of seiðr is believed to be a form of magic which is related to both the telling and the shaping of the future

>Seiðr was associated with both the god Óðinn, a deity who was simultaneously responsible for war, poetry and sorcery, and the goddess Freyja, a member of the Vanir who was believed to have taught the practice to the Æsir

>>17828410
>In Old Norse societies, gender roles were very rigid and deviating from them was considered shameful. This is exemplified in the attitudes surrounding seiðr and its place as a feminine craft

>A woman practicing seiðr would sometimes be called völva, meaning seeress. She would also sometimes be described as spá-kona or seið-kona, meaning 'prophecy-woman' and 'magic-woman', respectively. Because seiðr was viewed as a feminine practice, any man who engaged in it (seiðmaðr) was associated with a concept called ergi, the designation of a man in Norse society who was unmanly, feminine and possibly homosexual

>Sometimes, female practitioners of the craft would take on young male apprentices, and those who became mothers would teach the practice to their sons. Though not seen as a respectable thing, it was not rare for men to be involved in seiðr magic

>Archaeological finds also shows us how Odin’s gender was blurred. This seated figure was found in Denmark, and dated to the 10th century

>Despite its small size (less than an inch square) it is very finely detailed. The figure wears women’s attire: a long gown with an apron, a cloak, and a string of beads, but it also has only one eye and sits with two ravens behind it, symbols of Odin. What precisely this figurine is depicting is open for interpretation, but it is unquestionably a blending of masculine and feminine symbols in the same person

>>17828360
>seeing everything in terms of ''my favorite wrestler is better than yours'' you would realize that it's not a contest
You are quite lacking in self-awareness to make a statement like that in a thread like this where the OP is basically "this is why the Romans were the manliest empire on earth".

Cry more bitchnigger

>>17828405
>>17828410
>>17828430
And Brazil is the gayest country in the Western hemisphere, what's your point?

>>17828077
>Alfred Kinsey
>was a nice unassuming Midwestern WASP which was how he could easily market his perversions to middle America. the thing is, if his name had been Alfred Steinowitz and he lived in Queens he wouldn't get as much traction
>Claimed that 1 in 10 human beings are homosexual
>Claimed that from birth, a baby is sexual with capacity to enjoy sexual pleasure
>encouraged pedophiles to violate 317 to 2,035 infants for research on child sexuality
>circumcised himself in a bathtub to explore pain
>was friend of Nazi and Thelemite pedophiles
>was financed by the Rockefeller Foundation and the CIA
>Table 34: experimental data on infants and young boys and how often they climax

>>17828657
>King was not the only paedophile with whom Kinsey worked closely. During this period, Kinsey also corresponded with and collected data from one of the most notorious paedophiles of the time – Dr. Fritz von Balluseck of Germany

>This former Nazi party official had commanded a ghetto during the war, and had sexually abused hundreds of pre-adolescent boys and girls – forcing them to choose between sex or the gas chamber – in addition to his own children, for over three decades. Von Balluseck, like Rex King, kept explicitly detailed diaries of his sexual abuse, which he sent to Kinsey. Balluseck was implicated in the sex murder of a young girl in 1957. When Interpol found Balluseck’s correspondence with Kinsey, they sought Kinsey’s help, but Kinsey refused to release any of Balluseck’s journals or information

>Paul Gebhard wrote, of this fact: “An example of criminality is our refusal to cooperate with authorities in apprehending a paedophile we had interviewed who was being sought for a [child] sex murder”. At von Balluseck’s trial, the judge criticized Kinsey for failing to report him. Furthermore, testimony from von Balluseck during the trial indicated that Kinsey requested the sex abuse data from the paedophile. The judge asked von Balluseck, “I had the impression that you got to the children in order to impress Kinsey, and to deliver him material. And von Balluseck replied, “Kinsey himself asked me for that”. It is highly likely that some of Kinsey’s “data” on childhood sexuality may have come from the abuse of children in the Nazi death camps

>>17828657
huehuehuehue brbrbrbrbrbr???????

>>17828662
>Not only did Kinsey refuse to give evidence of Von Balluseck’s abuse during the trial; he and his team never reported the paedophiles crimes to the police, and eagerly accepted Balluseck’s diaries of his abuse. Balluseck was protected by the Nazis, as well as Kinsey, all of whom knew of his atrocities. The paedophile sent detailed diaries to Kinsey of such crimes as sexually abusing children as young as 7, molesting his own niece with “hardly any serious resistance”, forcing his own 14-year-old daughter to perform sex acts with a 16-year-old boy, molesting a 10-year-old boy (who later, upon getting arrested for offered his services to other men, explained that Balluseck had taught him everything he knew), and requiring an 11-year-old boy to keep an explicit record of the vile sex acts Balluseck made him perform. Kinsey not only thanked Balluseck for his information, but warned him, in one letter, to “Sehen Sie sich vor”, or “Be careful”. Balluseck , in his trial, named Kinsey’s work as the role model for his perverse behaviour

>Kinsey team researcher Paul Gebhard has admitted, in an audio taped interview, that the team (including Kinsey) did, in fact, participate in the experiments. Even Kinsey himself writes, in the Male volume, “Complying with the statistically fair demand for records from trained observers…we have now reported observations on such specifically sexual activities as erection, pelvic thrusts, and several other characteristics of true orgasm in a list of 317 boys ranging between infants of five months and adolescence in age”

> In other words, someone knowledgeable, who was involved with the research, trained the paedophiles in how to accurately record data on the abuse they perpetuated on children, and the response of those children

>>17828662
huehuehuehue brbrbrbrbrbr???????

>>17828669
huehuehue brbrbr???????

>>17828667
The man who start the whole Sexual Revolution which we still see to this day (AIDS, Abortion, Divorce, Transgenders, Pornography, etc...) was helped by German pedos, not ones here.

>>17828669
>Friedrich "Fritz" Karl Hugo Viktor von Balluseck (September 7, 1908 in Potsdam; June 28, 1989 in Berlin) was a German administrative lawyer. During the Nazi era, he served as district captain of Tomaszów Mazowiecki and Jędrzejów. He was sentenced to six years' imprisonment in Berlin in 1957 for the sexual abuse of his wards and children

>He was the son of the Prussian captain Hugo Manfred von Balluseck (1880–1934) and Margarethe Marie Lüders (1886–1970). After preparatory school, Balluseck attended the Protestant Viktoria-Gymnasium in Potsdam from Michaelmas 1917, where he passed his school leaving examination on September 13, 1926. From the winter semester of 1926/27, he studied law in Berlin (five semesters), Bonn (one semester), and Greifswald (two semesters). On August 1, 1930, he joined the NSDAP (Nazi Party) (membership number 335,931), and the SA (Storm Troops) in 1932. Balluseck passed his first legal examination on January 24, 1931, and began a position as a judicial trainee on October 1, 1931. In July 1932, he received his doctorate from the Faculty of Law and Political Science in Greifswald under Ernst Stampe with his thesis "The Position of the German Judicial Faculties on the Question of Monetary Debt Payment in the 17th and 18th Centuries." On April 3, 1935, he passed the major state examination in law

>On July 1, 1935, he entered the administrative service as a probationary assessor. On March 1, 1936, he became a government assessor at the district office in Simmern. On January 1, 1937, he joined the government in Liegnitz as an assessor. From January 1, 1939, he was an assessor to the city president in Berlin in the department for elementary and secondary schools. On April 1, 1939, he was appointed to the government council

>>17828687
>After the occupation of Poland by the German Wehrmacht, he served as district captain of Tomaszów Mazowiecki from October 1939 to November 1940, and then as district captain of Jędrzejów until April 1943. He was drafted into the Wehrmacht for sexual assaults against Polish women. As district captain in Poland, he also committed sexual abuse of children

>After the war, he supported himself in Berlin with odd jobs and, from the fall of 1948, worked as a night watchman at a cemetery. From October 1948 to February 1949, he trained as a Protestant religious education teacher (catechist) and, from February 1949, worked as a religious education teacher at Berlin schools. At the same time, he served as legal counsel for the Association of Employees of the Protestant Church of Berlin-Brandenburg. From March 1, 1954, he worked at the Housing Credit Institute in Berlin with the rank of government councilor

>On October 16, 1956, Balluseck was arrested and seven months later, on May 17, 1957, he was sentenced to six years in prison and placement in a psychiatric hospital for sexual abuse of wards and sexual abuse of children

>Yorkshire investigators had followed up this author’s original questions regarding Kinsey’s associa- tion with Nazis and the possibility that some of the abused children were obtained from WWII Germany and/or Russia. At least one of Kinsey’s sex collaborators was a documented Nazi, the infamous George Sylvester Viereck, a convicted German spy who had worked among Washington D.C. power brokers. David Brinkley in his history of the period, Washington Goes to War (1988: 26) wrote that Viereck was “one of the...masterminds of the propaganda cabinet that Germany set up here early in the war.” Yorkshire researchers flew to Berlin (as did this author), interviewing and digging through old files and press reports. There they discovered Dr. Friedrich Karl Hugo Viktor von Balluseck, who was tried in Berlin in 1957 for a child sex murder

>>17828687
>>17828689
Seriously, there's even a page on Wikipedia listing pedophile activist organizations, there are more than 10 German ones. While there are only three Dutch ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pedophile_advocacy_organizations
>Germany

>See also: 1970s and 1980s pedophilia debate (in German) and Pedophilia Debate (Alliance 90/The Greens) (in German)

>AG-Pädo. Founded in 1991 by the association Arbeitsgruppe des Bundesverbandes Homosexualität

>Aktion Freis Leben (AFL)

>Arbeitskreis Päderastie-Pädophilie (APF). Active in the early 1980s

>Arbeitsgemeinschaft Humane Sexualität (AHS) (de)

>Arbeitsgemeinschaft "Schwule, Päderasten und Transsexuelle" ("Working Group 'Gays, Pederasts and Transsexuals'"). A 1980s faction of the German Green Party involved in pro-pedophile activism. Now defunct and viewed with embarrassment

>Deutsche Studien- und Arbeitsgemeinschaft Pädophilie (DSAP). 1979–1983

>Fach und Selbsthilfegruppe Paedophilie

>Indianerkommune. Active from the 1970s through the mid-1980s. Commune that pressured the Green Party, sometimes violently, for what it considered to be children's liberation

>Kanalratten. Offshoot of the Indianerkommune but for female pedophiles

>Krumme 13 (K13)

>Pädogruppe, Rat und Tat-Zentrum

>Pädophile Selbsthilfe- und Emanzipationsgruppe München (SHG).Starting in 2003, police began raiding its members, resulting in more than half a million items of child pornography seized and multiple arrests

>Verein für sexuelle Gleichberechtigung. Founded in Munich. 1973–1988

>>17828703
>A controversial investigative journalist named Marcel Vervloesem investigating the disappearance of Manuel Schadwald for an NGO called the Morkhoven Workgroup, had come across Lothar Glandorf’s name in a police report from 1992 detailing a raid on an underage sex party in the Dutch town of Wallre. Vervloesem discovered Glandorf had been found at the time in the company of a teenager named Robbie Van Der Planken. He managed to track Van Der Planken down in Amsterdam sometime in June 1998, and through him had been introduced to a German man named Gerrit-Jan Ulrich. A 49 year-old computer technician living in the seaside town of Zandvoort just outside of Amsterdam where he owned a computer store called Cube Hardware

>Gerrit-Jan Ulrich invited Vervloesem to meet with him at his apartment in Zandvoort, which Vervloesem found full of computers, digital storage disks, and networking equipment dialed up to five phone lines. Gerrit-Jan Ulrich revealed himself as the administrator of a child pornography website called Apollo Bulletin Board Service, and handed Vervloesem a collection of encoded disks which containing thousands of images and videos of violent child abuse, along with lists of clients who were paying to access these from around the world

>A group of pedophiles in Amsterdam linked to Spartacus owned a video production company called TAG films suspected of making snuff films. TAG Films used a German video distribution company called Gero-Video located in Dusseldorf. The missing German boy Manuel Schadwald who was thought to have been killed in a snuff film made by these pedophiles was thought to have featured in at least one video distributed by Gero Video called “The Poison Dwarf”

>>17828687
>ancient greeks and romans were gay
>YEAH BUT MODERN GERMANS DOE
Favelamutt, none of your zika-addled posting about what some WASP got up to in the 1950s is relevant to what the ancient greeks or romans did.

>>17827161
This is why whites are obsessed with worshipping blacks btw