Geniue question do Muslims have a higher reverence for Mary and Mariology than Protestants?

Yeah, probably. They have to hold many figures in high regard. Protestants don't really have that kind of injunction and so are free to discuss Mary as just another character in the story.

>>17842307 (OP)
Protestants do not believe in the immaculate conception, Muslims do however

>>17842307 (OP)
Mary is arguably the most important woman in Islam
>Whole Chapter named after her in the Quran
>Every other muslim girl is named Mariam
>Her and Jesus are viewed as Sinless
>A lot of muslims get really offended when they hear how jews view Mary

The only woman who might be as important, depending on who you're talking to, is Fatima

>>17842354
NTA but due to her high status in the Quran medieval Muslims argued if she was a Prophet.

Prots hate Mary for some strange reason even though Luther loved her

>>17842307 (OP)
When and why did Catholics elevate Mary to the level of God and why do they worship her?

>>17842441
I think around the 15th century

>>17842441
Obviously a lot has to do with the creeds that declare Jesus to be God. But also there are psychological impulses that seek to fill out both the cosmogonic masculine and feminine.
You can tell a lot by how Catholics tell stories about her and how they have all kinds of visions and miraculous experiences related to her.

Protestants don't really have any feminine counterbalance to the Father and Son but it seems like that unchecked absence leads to unconscious manifestations of feminism as a counter-theology.

>>17842307 (OP) FUCK YES. Read the Quran.
https://quranenc.com/en/browse/english_saheeh

>>17842307 (OP)
Muslims don't worship Mary either as far as I know

>>17842584
>a higher reverence
OP didn't say worship.

>>17842307 (OP)
https://youtu.be/dvCjbo3z3OI?si=0rQY6UYMOPrudV_7

>>17842307 (OP)
Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtq3R1YMBlc

>>17842589
That just affirms that they are iconoclastic

>>17842589
>Religion that dislikes drawings of people they revere means they hate said person
Lol

>>17842588
But he's talking about the fact Protestants don't worship Mary, unlike Romanists.

>>17842606
>hate
?

>>17842622
No

>>17842354
>Mary is arguably the most important woman in Islam
Not really. Aisha is literally called the "mother of the believers"

>>17842636

Good to not see any Prots spewing blasphemy

>>17842307 (OP)
Unironcally yes

>>17842354
Taqiyya

>>17843632
>>17842582
>>17842643

>>17842701
Mary is not a goddess

>>17843690
>Strawman

>>17843731
Is it possible for me to "spew blasphemy" about you?

>>17842441
>>17842502
>>17842622
1/2
Case #3947 of protestants viewing worship so low that they consider asking for prayers and chants to be worship.
The Bible clearly states that prayers of the righteous are more effective.
Job 42:8-10
>… my servant Job shall pray for you: his face I will accept, that folly be not imputed to you: for you have not spoken right things before me, as my servant Job hath.
>10 The Lord also was turned at the penance of Job, when he prayed for his friends. And the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.
God accepted Job’s friend because Job prayed for him, this shows that prayers of the righteous are more effective, so asking for them to pray for you and intercede for you is completely normal.
>Revelations 8:3-4
>And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.
Prayers of saints are effective.
We see in James 5:16-18 that praying for each other is effective and so are prayers of saints.
>Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much. Elias was a man passible like unto us: and with prayer he prayed that it might not rain upon the earth, and it rained not for three years and six months. And he prayed again: and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
Again in Acts 19:11-12, we see Paul’s handkerchief interceding.
>And God wrought by the hand of Paul more than common miracles. So that even there were brought from his body to the sick, handkerchiefs and aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the wicked spirits went out of them

>>17842636
First of all there's a buch of Muslims who hate het guts. I mean Shias.

Second of all:
>Ibn Abbas reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The best of women among the people of Paradise are Khadija bint Khuwaylid, Fatimah bint Muhammad, Maryam bint ‘Imran, and ‘Asiyah bint Muzahim, the wife of Pharaoh.”

>>17843753
2/2
Same case in 2 Kings 2:13-14 with Elijah miraculous cloak
> And he took up the mantle of Elias, that fell from him: and going back, he stood upon the bank of the Jordan, 14 And he struck the waters with the mantle of Elias, that had fallen from him, and they were not divided. And he said: Where is now the God of Elias? And he struck the waters, and they were divided, hither and thither, and Eliseus passed over.
The Bible also teaches that dead saints can listen to you (unlike what many anons stated here before). Matthew 17:2-3
>And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow. And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him.
1 Samuel 28:12-20, Samuel when dead is intervening in our world.
>And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice, and said to Saul: Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. And the king said to her: Fear not: what hast thou seen? And the woman said to Saul: I saw gods ascending out of the earth. And he said to her: What form is he of? And she said: An old man cometh up, and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul understood that it was Samuel, and he bowed himself with his face to the ground, and adored. And Samuel said to Saul: Why hast thou disturbed my rest, that I should be brought up?
Revelation is even clearer.
5:8
> And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints:
In 6:9-10 you see dead saints communicated with God.
>And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying: How long, O Lord (holy and true) dost thou not judge and revenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

If you need intercession then go to the Church and tell his body what your problem is, and if giving you what you need will help in the salvation of his people, or Glorify the heavenly kingdom, you might have your prayer answered.

That is how it is meant to be, everything else is retarded.

>>17843753
>Most Holy Virgin Immaculate, my Mother Mary, to Thee who art the Mother of my Lord, the Queen of the universe, the advocate, the hope, the refuge of sinners, I who am the most miserable of all sinners, have recourse this day.

>I venerate Thee, great Queen, and I thank Thee for the many graces Thou hast bestowed upon me even unto this day; in particular for having delivered me from the hell which I have so often deserved by my sins.

>I love Thee, most dear Lady; and for the love I bear Thee, I promise to serve Thee willingly for ever and to do what I can to make Thee loved by others also. I place in Thee all my hopes for salvation; accept me as thy servant and shelter me under thy mantle, thou who art the Mother of mercy.

>And since thou art so powerful with God, deliver me from all temptations, or at least obtain for me the strength to overcome them until death. From Thee I implore a true love for Jesus Christ. Through Thee I hope to die a holy death. My dear Mother, by the love thou bearest to Almighty God, I pray Thee to assist me always, but most of all at the last moment of my life. Forsake me not then, until thou shalt see me safe in heaven, there to bless Thee and sing of thy mercies through all eternity. Such is my hope.

If you ask me it seems Catholics love Mary MORE than Jesus himself

>>17843810
You would have accused David of worshipping the Ark of the Lord in Psalm 99:5 and Joshua of worshipping the Ark of the Lord in Joshua 7:6. You would have accused God of commanded the Hebrews to commit idolatry with the cherubs of gold. You also didn’t refute my post. None of what you posted is even relevant to my post or proves anything in particular.
>>17843820
This is sadly false, please read more about Catholicism.

Protestants are overhated

Protestants are not hated ENOUGH.

>>17843810
You would've thought Jesus might have mentioned his mom acting like a celestial secretary for his current and future followers at some point

>>17844126
>Catholicism is when you worship statues of a jewish woman
109 times wasn't enough

>>17844136
See this: >>17843753
>>17844310
You should see this: >>17843845

>>17844310
>Projection

>>17844136
Because that was never the intention, obviously.

>>17844310
>Catholicism is when you worship statues of a Jewish woman.

Protestantism is when you worship statues of a chiseled muscle man in a loincloth on the cross.

Protestants worship a book and Luther

Protestants worship the book, Catholics worship a woman, Mormons worship a conman, and Muslims worship tongue sucking. Where does this leave us?

>>17844346
Yes, we know motivated reasoning and liberal quote mining can be used to justify anything retroactvirly

>>17844384
exactly which protestants do that?
>>17844387
>>17844401
at least that's viable

>>17843845
>You would have accused David of worshipping the Ark of the Lord in Psalm 99:5
If he wrote something like that you better believe I would

>>17844459
>If he wrote something like that you better believe I would
You are wicked.

>>17844500
Mosses comes back down and kicks the shit out of them for worshiping an idol. We'll intentioned or not, it is not right to worship any graven image. God is not in stone or wood, and praying to the dead is vain. His people require no intercession, and if you seek it then you implicitly forfit your authority in Christ.

>>17842307 (OP)
Yes, because their religion is descended from a Christian sect that belueved her to be part of the Godhead

>>17842307 (OP)

>>17842602
>>17842606
Remember simpletons we are comparing muslims to Protestants. Protestants don’t do this sort of dishonorable behavior to statues of Mary. Protestants name there churches after Mary and have statues of her to play the role befitting for the edification of the church and for the visible reminder of the Gospel.
Along with destroying statues of her, there is the fact that muslims don’t believe Jesus is God and thus Mary wouldn’t be the mother of God. All Protestant churches Lutheran, Anglicans, and reformed believe this in contrast.
>>17844777
The Luther quote is ripped out of context and, when placed in context, is actually speaking *negatively* of papist excesses in Marian veneration.
https://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2012/04/luther-veneration-of-mary-is-inscribed.html

>>17844919
>Protestants name there churches after Mary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_in_Islam#Legacy

>>17844500
I'm not the one worshipping idols and strange gods
>Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

>>17844938
Oh wow five! There are hundreds of Protestant churches named after Mary. Plus the more important difference is Islam doesn’t believe Jesus is God and thus they don’t believe she is theotokos.

>>17844997
>There are hundreds of Protestant churches named after Mary.
Does it even matter when they just see her as some other woman?

>>17845003
They don’t. Continue reading the rest of the post you replied to.

>>17845040
>They don’t
Lol, lmao even.

>>17845060
>not an argument.

>>17845109
Why should I argue against a blatant lie?
Prots have a deep hatred for Mary everyone knows this,

>>17845156
I hate the false idol you worship, that demon, I hate that. I don't hate Mary, who is blissfully asleep in the Lord.

>>17845167
>Already manifesting

>>17845156
It isn’t a lie. And You know it’s true and you’re just bullshiting which is why you can’t say anything against it. All Protestant churches honor Mary and believe she is the theotokos.

What if we just said "Fuck every denomination" and trust The Bible and Him working in every other way to talk to us - directly and indirectly?

>>17845167
Imagine calling the mother of christ a "demon"

>>17842367
It's actually true... I respect them more for that
>>17842391
Because modern protties are just looking to score cheap points against us. I am pretty sure most of them shitposting on here don't actually believe we are making her into a literal idol and all that.

>>17845548
>I am pretty sure most of them shitposting on here don't actually believe we are making her into a literal idol and all that.
Strong delusion

>>17845241
Which translation? Which books? What interpretation of Old vs New testament?

>>17845548
When Protestants do start to look at it with a critical eye they see a bunch of totally alien ritual and tradition that might as well have come from Hinduism if it weren't for the background knowledge telling them otherwise.
Also Marian shrines can be pretty popular in India due to the overlaps.

>>17844958
Were David and Joshua worshipping the ark of the covenant in Psalm 99:5 and Joshua 7:6?
>>17844520
You still have not replied to this and he did not imply anything other than reverence.
>>17843753

>>17844407
Quote mining the Bible? You simply have no response.

>>17845591
Quite colorful

The quranic and biblical narratives are very different. They refer to the same person but the details are very different.

>>17844777
Lol

>>17846290
No. They were worshipping God.

>>17847252
NTA but then you have no problem with Mary then.

>>17847596
I got a big problem with the worship of "Mary". See >>17844958

>>17845591
>Also Marian shrines can be pretty popular in India due to the overlaps.
Isn't Jesus in hinduism?

>>17848140
Some Hindus include him in their pantheon, though nothing really looks like Jesus in the normal traditions.

>>17848155
>its real
kek I had no idea
They are still persecuting Christians though

>>17845591
If you talk to missionaries in India they will tell you that Hindus have the exact same justification for idolatry as Roman Catholics do: "uhh kissing and bowing before and praying to idols is veneration not worship"

I fail to see the bad thing about iconoclasm

>>17842441
The assumption of Mary

>>17847252
When they prostrated to the cherubim and Ark of the covenant, you would have accused them of idolizing the cherubim and Ark.
You also did not answer my Biblical case for the intercession of saints.

>>17849185
>Comparing holy things to a dead mortal woman

protestants are scared of drawings lmao

>>17850028
>t.Idol worshipper

>>17850028
>Muh Protestants
There's nothing normal about kneeling before a statue of a woman and praying to it. One thing Protestants got right was shitting on Catholics for their blatant goddess worship.

>>17850073
>>17850118
>prots can't see the difference between veneration and worship
It's sad really. lutheroids, godless heretics that they are, don't actually know how to worship God, their "worship" is just shallow veneration. So no wonder they get confused when they see real Christians venerate (not worship) icons

>>17850338
Mary is dead

>>17850338
>Literally mindbroken by Prots

Catholics have mommy issues

>>17850118
Yup

>>17850371
>>17850444
>>17850625
>>17851497
God already planned his incarnation as Jesus, his ministry, death and resurrection before he created the world. So he knew that it will be Holy Mary who will give birth to Jesus. That means God knew about and loved Mary before universe was made, before time started flowing. She is the most important woman in history

>>17851595
Don't mind them their hearts are black as coal.

>>17842441
Egyptian mythology

Bump