Thread 17850409

This is beyond embarrassing.

A central part of black nationalism is crying about not being able to speak properly

i can't breave

>>17850409 (OP)
being retarded and illiterate is black culture

>>17850409 (OP)
You dont speak Ebonics?

Me neither, it sounds retarded

>>17850409 (OP)
>Wardine be cry

>>17850409 (OP)
All zoomers talk like this.

>Creole languages don't exist because I hate brown people
So French, Italian, Portugese, and Spanish aren't real languages, gotcha!

>>17850701
English is a French/Anglish creole, French is a Latin/Dutch creole. English is literally a creole of a creole lmao

>>17850707
>>17850701
>Trying to make this massive false equivalence
lmao.

>>17850709
???
Latine, criollo

>>17850709
>false equivalent
Nope, they come from Vulgar Latin, literally lower class Latin spoken by lower class citizens of the Roman empire, it is the same thing

>>17850709
French is the ebonics of Latin

>>17850717
>>17850714
>>17850712
Ebonics comes from the inability to speak a language, not trying to create a new one.

>>17850726
Nobody "tried" to create French or or Spanish either you retard. Vulgar Latin came from the "inability to speak a language" in the same exact way. That's literally what Creole's are, they're not Constructed languages like Esperanto you intellectually dishonest dumbass.

>>17850732
If it wasn't for whites trying to force it on them, black people not only would never learn to read but they would also probably not even have much in terms of spoken language either.

>>17850742
You lost bro

>>17850742
black people aren't that dumb, they'd have a language adapted to their thick lips, maybe with some whistles and clicks thrown in to make up for the elocutionary shortfall

>>17850409 (OP)
The song no woman no cry by Bob Marley isn't even saying "ignore bitches they don't be worth it", it's saying "No, woman, please don't cry"

See, saying ask and asks is actually pretty difficult. It's unironically easier to say aks, and everyone know what you mean through context

>>17850752
>black people aren't that dumb
you wouldn't say that if you knew any

Only Southern Blacks talk like that by the way, New England blacks just sound like normal people. Southern culture in general is just trash and breeds trash from all races.

>>17850768
replace southern with american and you are correct

>>17850768
>Southern Blacks
This be whitey's fault tho. They bred 'em to be dumb and strong and good at sports

>>17850732
you have no business calling anyone a dumbass when you misuse apostrophes

>>17850799
*apostrophe's

>>17850412
lmao

once again proof that whites failed to civilize blacks at every turn

>>17850810
>apostrophe's
*apostrophes'

>>17850701
>>17850707
>>17850712
>>17850714
>>17850717
>>17850726
>>17850732
None of these are creoles. Romance languages are natural regular descendants of Latin, AAVE is not a creole either, real creoles like Jamaican and Haitian are far more different from their template language. AAVE really is just slightly broken English and they use it on purpose as a marker of identity, it isn't quite regularised enough to be a language of its own yet but could hypothetically become one.

>>17850409 (OP)
>we was
this one is something that used to be commonplace amongst white people, especially in new york, and seems to have changed by the 80s

>>17850428
>>17850410
>>17850436
They are speaking proper though. Do you not know what dialects are? Many of these aren't even unique to AAVE

>>17850871
dialect implies it still has the same capacity for expression of the same range of ideas, but we know black language is severely retarded. Retarded, meaning in this context to have a reduced capacity, reduced scope, reduced expressive potency.

>>17850854
>AAVE really is just slightly broken English
AAVE has consistent rules and grammar to it. Actual broken English spoken used by people unfamiliar with it don't have consistency to it.

>>17850848
>whites failed to civilize blacks at every turn.
Brah white people in Africa got mad at Africans speaking fluent Euro languages because they assumed every African doing so was an upstart trying to cut in on the colonial graft or that they'd be obligated treat them well.

>>17850876
>dialect implies it still has the same capacity for expression of the same range of ideas
Which it does.

>we know black language is severely retarded. Retarded, meaning in this context to have a reduced capacity, reduced scope, reduced expressive potency.
Nah You can pretty much express the same things with it as you could in other English dialects

>>17850880
>Which it does.
I'm pretty sure Koko the gorilla had a larger vocabulary than the average negro.

>>17850877
>AAVE has consistent rules and grammar to it
There are tendencies but it's not perfectly consistent at all. Speakers are always on a cline from dipping into it more or less.

Guys, I swear, no one in my family talks like this.

>>17850881
Lmao she can't even sign properly. Koko pretty much drained a ton of primate language resources on her over the other apes who actually produced data. She was essentially a revenue and PR engine

>>17850882
>Speakers are always on a cline from dipping into it more or less.
That's applicable to any language and dialect. People often switch from one dialect to another or use a mixture of it based on context. Many do it with entire languages too

>>17850887
Most of the dialects you refer to don't really exist as serious living languages anymore either, but they did historically at least. Maybe AAVE existed more consistently historically as well but today incorporating its features into English is just a stylistic choice to signal your nighood.

>>17850854
>"Spanish, French, Italian, and Portugese aren't Creole Latin"
>"Why? Because....because I just don't like brown people okay???"

>>17851015
A creole is a specific thing with a definition. Those languages are regular descendants.

>>17850438
I always found it funny how DFW wrote aave in that way when he could've dialed back the retardation factor by like 50% and it would've come across the same way

>>17850890
>today incorporating its features into English is just a stylistic choice to signal your nighood.
Not really. People always pepper their speech with things from their original dialect/accent. Why do you think its so unusual if blacks do it outside of being some crazed chud?

>>17850890
>Most of the dialects you refer to don't really exist as serious living languages anymore either, but they did historically at least
People constantly swap and jump between colloquial dialects and standardized forms.

>>17851023
>Those languages are regular descendants.
So in other words it's a creole. They come directly from Vulgar Latin, which was a pidgin dialect of Latin. This makes them creole's by definition. Nobody cares what you think

>>17850701
Notice how nobody said that?

>>17851081
That is simply not linguistics. "Vulgar Latin" just refers to spoken dialects, essentially Proto-Romance. All Romance languages are linear genetic descendants of Latin in linguistic terms, creoles are an entirely different concept.

>>17851096
>Vulgar Latin, also known as Colloquial, Popular, Spoken or Vernacular Latin, is the range of non-formal registers of Latin spoken from the Late Roman Republic onward.[1]

>>17851096
Not him but you do know many languages used to be creole before turning ing "descendant" languages. The barrier between the former and the barrier isn't exactly concrete.

>>17851100
No, creoles hardly exist outside of the New World.
>>17851097
Yes, do you understand how language evolution works?

>>17851105
>No, creoles hardly exist outside of the New World.
Are you trying to argue that French and Spanish are ConLangs that didn't emerge organically? It sounds like you don't actually understand how Creole languages work

>>17850871
>>17850880
imagine 2 people having a presidential debate in ebonics, just imagine it, and the. say they are equal again, you fucking piece of shit nigger.

>>17851106
French and Spanish are descendants of Latin. Creoles have never existed in continental Europe.

>>17851108
See
>>17851015

>>17850412
>i can't breave

>>17851105
There's a good amount that exist ourside od the new world if you bothered to check.

>>17850709
>>>17850726
>>17850742
>your argument is wrong because I hate niggers

>>17851107
Why are you so insecure about people speaking dialect. There's been plenty of politicians who have done political speeches and sermons in dialects and heavy accents. Why are you this triggered.

>>17851109
They are by definition not creoles.
>>17851113
Not really, creoles are mostly a colonial slave phenomenon which is why the creole monogenesis theory exists. I don't subscribe to that but it's illustrative.

>>17851117
>Not really, creoles are mostly a colonial slave phenomenon which is why the creole monogenesis theory exists
Again you didn't bother checking out the ones that exist in the old world.

>>17851121
They are very irrelevant.

>>17851122
They are not irrelevant at all. Why say shit yet do the bare minimum.

>>17851115
>pointing out differences means you hate people
Why are trannies so afraid of being different

>Being blatantly wrong about something is supposed to make white people look smart
This is not the hill you want to die on dude

>>17851126
There literally are no relevant creole languages in the old world. Just extremely obscure shit like "Angloromani".

>>17851132
Nigerian English and Nigerian Pidgin have over 100 million speakers

>>17851133
That's still colonial blaqpipo. Not exactly what is being intended by old world.

>>17851132
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creole_languages

>>17851132
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creole_languages
Also relevancy is dumb criteria to use.

>>17851136
>>17851138
Literally the page I checked to verify my statement before making it. I don't see what you think you're accomplishing by posting evidence against your own position.

>>17851136
>>17851138
Hivemind
Also relevant to the current discussion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English_creole_hypothesis

>>17851135
>He gives you an example that meets the criteria
>it has black speakers.
So why are you this picky?

>>17851142
The original statement I made is that creoles are mainly a colonial/Atlanic slave phenomenon, with very few creoles ever existing in the old world proper. Nigerian Pidgin is not really adding anything meaningful to that conversation.

>>17851135
>old world
Africa is in the old world you honest to God retarded mongoloid.

>>17851147
In the broadest sense sure but Nigeria is a colonial country. The context of the conversation clearly informs what is meant.

>>17851146
>Nigerian Pidgin is not really adding anything meaningful to that conversation.
English creole spoken in West Africa after exposure to English and has various regional dialects. It being colonial or not doesn't negate it. More so when West African pidgin was a thing long before Europeans formerly engaged in full on colonialism.

>>17851150
It's clearly part of the same phenomenon and most importantly would still be covered under the creole monogenesis theory. Again, I don't subscribe to that theory but it's to emphasise how creoles as a phenomenon are largely limited to a particular time and place in history, while elsewhere you can at best talk about sub- and superstrates.

>>17851151
>it's to emphasise how creoles as a phenomenon are largely limited to a particular time and place in history
Most have expanded beyond that frame or changed their influence/grammar due to further exposure to other languages.

>>17851155
That's a nonsensical response to what you quoted. What are you trying to say here?

>>17850409 (OP)
Where is ask -- axe?

>>17851116
retard.

>>17850409 (OP)
that's fucking funny
what is that, a history book?

>>17851081
Yes it comes from people being retards and dumbing down language for the rest of us.

>bix nood mutafukar
>gibs muh dat
>muh dic
>wipeepoo bad
How incredible, what a wonderful "language" so impressive.

>>17850409 (OP)
I don't think some of these are real

>>17850409 (OP)
They want to create a slave class. Democrats have always been about opressing 49% of the population. By inventing a language that is seperated from the true etymology, they can seperate phonetics from deeper meaning, and oppress a large portion of the population with ignorance.

>>17851970
If you arent a total mong at English or aren't a monolingual, you can understand other English dialects quite easily with some exposure. AAVE isn't even close to being as hard to understand as the more creole influenced Carribean English. If you are familiar with actual Southern English and not just standard US/Midwest English some Southernisms here and there it's also easy to grasp too.

>>17851202
Still being triggered lmao.

>>17851156
Because most creoles have now existed longer post colonial/slave period than their existence during said period. Also even in the case of Carribean/West African creoles their African influences all varied and their European ones also shifted. West African pidgin switched from a very Portuguese influenced one to an English one over the centuries.

>>17852040
Of course the creoles still exist now, but creoles have rarely emerged in human history outside of this specific context.

>>17852045
>creoles have rarely emerged in human history outside of this specific context.
They've always appeared in human history. Most just die off as human populations move and economic hotposts change so the need to know them for commerce declines.

>>17852051
That's conjecture. There's no evidence of them before the colonial period.

>>17850409 (OP)
It's a sociolect, not a separate language. 99% of the time black people can switch between AAVE and "proper" English with a slight accent.

>>17850871
>imagine being illiterate so long it becomes a dialect

>>17850409 (OP)
There is a uncanny valley effect where if a language is similar to your language it just sounds retarded compared to an extremely different and obviously foreign language. Dutch, Afrikaans, and Luxembourgish get this reaction a lot.

>>17851108
>Creoles have never existed in continental Europe.
not that we know of. but if we leave the continent, english could very well be a creole between old danish and old french. I am not open to the possibility that it descends from whatever germanic language Harold Godwinsson spoke, and which sounds almost like gothic.

>>17852359
oh fuck, I've got ninja'd hard >>17851141

>>17852359
Old English to Middle English is definitely one of the most dramatic evolutions in a language in a short time ever but other Germanic languages underwent very similar massive shifts in the same time. English just happened to borrow a lot of French vocabulary, but Scandinavian borrowed even more German vocabulary and underwent the exact same grammatical simplifications. Old and Middle High/Low German look very little alike either to a German speaker, with Old being a strange alien language and Middle already being recognisable as the modern language.
Since you mention Gothic, the sparse evidence of Crimean Gothic suggests similar radical evolutions in it. This is just a pattern of Germanic languages and I attribute it to word-initial stress.

>>17850409 (OP)
>English, Correct
>English, Wrong

>>17852439
I was also referring to the extreme simplification of grammar, not just the changes in vocabulary. old english was - or sounds to me - as a german-style language with proper cases and grammatical gender, while middle english is about 90% on its way to modern english, which in turn is practically an isolating language without grammatical genders, like mandarin. I know other germanic languages underwent similar changes, and word-initial stress might have something to do with it (unstressed case endings withering away?), but it's still strange how fast it happened. also, hungarian is also stressing the first syllabe and we still have a scary case system - maybe agglutinative languages aren't quite so likely to lose case endings/markers.

>>17851115
yes

>>17852688
German and Icelandic are the only Germanic languages retaining a case and full gender system and even then they're quite simplified in a lot of ways. German dialects go a lot further, some have no gender, all lack the genitive, some even have do-support. So all these things clearly have a tendency to emerge naturally and don't require foreign influence as an explanation, much less creolisation.
Uralic case systems are weird, Uralic languages sometimes gain more cases than they had before as well which is extremely unusual in IE which has a strong tendency to only become more analytic over time.

>>17850409 (OP)
Ironically, it's a little more grammatically complex than English. Despite "sounding stupid" (not a real standard btw).
Though it does sound retarded. So do most heavily non-standard regional dialects though.

>>17850409 (OP)
This is how slang works in every language ever made, why be mad about it? It's also how english became what it is now

>>17850409 (OP)
Serious question. Why do black purple have such a hard time with complex language systems? I've been told black peoples are the smartest in the world but they don't really seem to be

Can someone explain why my white 5 year old has better language skills than adult black people?

>>17850409 (OP)
English is a bottom-up language, not a top-down one. It changes to suit the speakers, we don't force the speakers to conform to some official version of it.

>>17853470
Whites who can't grasp tonal languages are in no position to lecture others on simplistic language.

>>17853478
Swedish, Lithuanian, Limburgish, Norwegian, Latvian, and Serbo-Croatian have tones.

>>17850409 (OP)
i'm not seeing the classic "codda ambalamps"

>>17853478
And Korean isn't tonal, so what?

>>17853490
>>17853483
Wrong (You)

>>17853475
>>17852773
>>17853127
>NOOOO YOU CANT HAVE ANY STANDARDS FOR LANGUAGE WHATSOEVER