Thread 17864101

Why are Christians like this?

>>17864101 (OP)
The hyperfixation one this one interpretation of hell is so boring

>>17864104
Good arguments are often boring, yes.

>>17864113
I don't know anyone who believes this interpretation besides fundie YECs

>>17864119
All Christians.

>>17864129
Lol no just look at people like C.S. Lewis
Inb4 scottsman fallacy

>>17864134
Hell being what God does to you if you don't believe in him is biblical hence no scottsman fallacy.

>>17864141
The details surrounding it are pretty vague so there are numerous interpretations beyond the one here where God puts people in a torture dungeon. Lewis basically believed people are exiled from the presence of God and basically left to decay because they've rejected the sustaining source of existence. Not God actively torturing people, just respecting their choice and leaving them, to simplify.
I'd recommend the book Four Views on Hell

>>17864160
Who here spoke of a torture dungeon???

>>17864101 (OP)
Clearly. Jesus would continue knocking. Anyone who read the Bible would know this. See importunity

>>17864101 (OP)
This is wrong as it assumes that you are safe when in reality, everyone's already headed towards the cliff and Jesus was just trying to pull us out

Yes, Jesus knocks because you are beating your head on the floor, and he wants to stop you before you get actual brain damage. If you would allow it

>>17864162
"From what I'm going to do to you"
Lewis' view doesn't have God threatening people with violence. He just doesn't force people into his house when they don't wanna be there

>>17864184
>Lewis' view doesn't have God threatening people with violence.
Not a Christian.

>>17864181
It's actually more accurate to say that he put you in a dangerous position and threatens you that he'll put you in an infinitely worse spot if you don't meet his standards which is perfection. Christianity is single-handedly the most anti-natalist religion ever

>>17864195
Hence
>>17864134
>inb4 Scotsman fallacy

A Christian isn't defined by such a claim

Gg I'm out

>WORSHIP MY JEW OR GO TO HELL
Abrahamists are mentally ill.

>>17864101 (OP)
All you need to do is open the door and you'll be fine bro.

>>17864239
except if you're not completely perfect you end up in hell anyway

>>17864202
All he asks is for you to recognize him as Lord and have faith.

A doctor cannot perform surgery if you will not recognize him as superior and lay on the operating table

>>17864224
You are already headed for hell and he is throwing the rope

>>17864284
that's Protestantism, god asks you to be perfect from the moment you become christian. If not you're immediately at risk to get sent to hell if you don't physically show up to a church for forgiveness. the actual chance of being saved is extremely narrow even for people born as life long Christians. If you weren't in the first place you might as well not even try.

So they can use it as an excuse

>>17864245
That's not true for almost any mainline Christian church. If you believe in the miracles of the saints, who were all flawed people, then you obviously don't have to be perfect to get into Heaven as the saints prove lots of imperfect people are there

>>17864101 (OP)
>I don't like the Bible
>Therefore, it isn't true
Argument from incredulity. Have fun burning.
>>17864134
>C.S. Lewis
I'm pretty sure that drunk is in Hell right now. You're stupid.

>>17864327
I guarantee you are in a state of "mortal sin" even according to the standards of your fake church. You're going to wish you were never born. Tick tock.

>>17864203
>A Christian isn't defined by such a claim
Yes they are.

>>17864327
It is dogmatic in catholism that if you die in state of mortal sin it's over, it's basically just pure chance if you end up being saved or not
>>17864333
Protestantism is a cope because martin luther knew he wasn't gonna be good enough

>>17864368
>Protestantism is a cope because martin luther knew he wasn't gonna be good enough
No one is good enough. Keep swelling yourself up with pride though! It's going to be hilarious when you finally get judged for your works, just like you asked. I'd love to see the look on your face. Tick tock.

>>17864374
>No one is good enough. Keep swelling yourself up with pride though! It's going to be hilarious when you finally get judged for your works, just like you asked. I'd love to see the look on your face. Tick tock.
I'm neither protestant or catholic, i'm just saying that if christianity is true then 99.99999% of people are fucked. But keep spamming your copy pasta responses

>>17864310
No, it doesn't.
In fact, that's impossible.

Have faith and do his will. That's all he asks

>>17864368
"Mortal sin "is a sin that you cannot commit by accident
You have to break multiple layers of common sense, ignore dozens of warnings, and if you end up committing it, you have to ignore hundreds of calls for repentance in order to die from it

>>17864377
Tick tock.

>>17864377
No. It's 100%.
Everyone's fucked.
Jesus is just the only one capable of saving us and he is willing to save everyone. But in order to do so, you have to worship him and do as he orders

>>17864379
You're so fucked.

>>17864389
Correct. Everyone's fucked
Jesus is the only one who can fix it but only if you recognize him as your Lord

>>17864379
>"Mortal sin "is a sin that you cannot commit by accident
>You have to break multiple layers of common sense, ignore dozens of warnings, and if you end up committing it, you have to ignore hundreds of calls for repentance in order to die from it
Mortal sin is the average mistake everyone makes on a daily basis retard
>>17864387
>Jesus is just the only one capable of saving us and he is willing to save everyone. But in order to do so, you have to worship him and do as he orders
Except that the standards are far above what's capable for 99.9999999999999999999% of people.

>>17864404
No, it's not, retard
Mortal sin is a DELIBERATE rejection of God.
It is not just an action; it is a complete rejection of his laws and his offers of salvation

No guilt, no sense of shame. Just excuses and rationalization of your self-righteous wickedness

This is what it means to commit a Mortal Sin

And of course!
Jesus' standards are impossible to meet, and he knows that you would fail. He just wants you to try it anyway

>>17864389
That's catholic dogma which presuposes Peter's institutional lineage was given exclusive power of interpretation, however it must be noted in the writtings Peter received this for his declaration of faith, not because he was Peter. While religious institutions may guide and advice the validity of their interpretation their legitimacy and validity will always be subjected to one's personal conscience.
And yes, this is why Simon Salva and the likes of him are worth rubish as evangelists, I don't even bother sending him to hell because having such attitude reveals he is extremely mind-broken and the victim of mental and physical mistreatment.

>>17864417
>Mortal sin is a DELIBERATE rejection of God.
Right, like your DELIBERATE rejection of Jesus' finished work on the cross. You demand to be judged by your own works, and you will be.

>>17864417
>I'm arguing against a retard that bases their belief system off of catholic memes on the internet

>>17864101 (OP)
pic related

>>17864101 (OP)
Christianity is essentially an offshoot cult of Second Temple Jewish apocalypticism, which was widespread and influential. All Jews believed that 1) God was real and all-powerful (most everyone believed that at the time, save the Epicureans). But they also noticed that 2) injustice and evil was rampant and the Jews were subjugated by foreign powers. How did they square the circle? Through the idea that, while God was ultimately in control, he had temporarily absented the world to evil powers who currently ruled it, but God was very soon coming back to destroy the evil powers, reassert his control and establish an eternal kingdom of good and justice in the world again. This was of course always just about to happen.

All of Christianity was constructed by working back from those assumptions and that Jesus was the promised Messiah who had inaugurated the era that would see God return.

>>17864465
*yawn* Hotter still. Tick tock.

>>17864465
>god was afk
pottery

>>17864101 (OP)
Why are you such a retard?
It is people who condemn themselves.
Hell is the conscient rejection of God.
He can't save you if you don't let Him!
(He could, but then you would reject Him again...)
There would be no point.
He created us free to choose.
It is now on you.

>>17864823
You don't really have much of a choice when there's only a single "good" option though now do you?

>>17864160
Bible talks about fire and gnashing of teeth

>>17864389
What if I'm jerking it to anthro babes?

>>17864832
Yes you absolutely do.

>>17864862
No, you absolutely do not. You're literally punished for exercising your free will in your scenario anon.

>>17864101 (OP)
Except thats not the message at all. YAHUSHA Isnt a boogeyman like yall darkness lovers would have him be. He's literally there telling you to accept his help. The devil which you so much adore is the one telling YAHUAH to destroy you. Thats why he had both titles, tempter and accuser. Now has the title of destroyer.

You know very little of the actual lore and thats why you're talking nonsense. You're already headed to destruction, this isn't an option. Mankinds sins are too great. You're also conveniently forgetting the politics of Heaven. YAHUAH is the judge and he HAS to deliver justice. He quite literally came here as a human to PROVE to lucifer now satan, that humans CAN be perfect. Lived here 35ish years and offered himself up as the ultimate lamb sacrifice. Pure in all his ways and subjected to mental, physical, and emotional torture and ultimately death JUST so he can become the hand that offers you mercy once his long awaited judgement trial begins. YAHUSHA is the ONLY one throwing you a life raft in the ocean you're drowning in. Its up to you if you wanna grab hold of it.

>>17864875
>YAHUAH is the judge and he HAS to deliver justice. He quite literally came here as a human to PROVE to lucifer now satan, that humans CAN be perfect.
Except Jesus was literally god and didn't have original sin, even if a human didn't sin they still end up in hell. God made you with original sin because of something your very first ancestors were tricked into doing. This isn't you being lent a hand this is being threatened because of things out of your control. If god simply just wanted to be with use he wouldn't have all this shit happened. The reality is just that most humans were meant to be sent to hell, there's no other way around it.

>>17864913
and that's not even taking into account that being saved is pure chance anyway no matter how hard you try to improve yourself. The best chance you have is if you were born christian but your chances are still extremely slim anyway. It's better to have just not existed to begin with rather than be caught in all this bullshit

>>17864875
>that humans CAN be perfect
humans can't be perfect

that's the whole point jesus had to show up according to your bible

god created impossible expectations, blamed you for it, sold you a solution to a problem he created, then called himself a savior

If all the religions are going to be mean or difficult to abide, shouldnt everyone be set on making their own afterlives to exemplify truly who and what they are rather than what others wanted them to be? The point was free will, and to make God happy right?? So we could just take what we learn from here, and go build other places. The problem of evil dissolves outside this realm because there's no point to evil without deprivation unresolved due to lack of self-actualization. The point of being whole is to be whole. What makes one whole is not up to the determination of tyrants that seek to devour. That defeats the entire point of the test. Be you, not others. There is no possible way to be separated from God because God is everywhere and nowhere all at once. So even if God banished you beyond all of time and eternity, guess what? God is still with you. So that narrative falls apart too. Did anyone think about this stuff when they wrote it?

>>17864202
God didnt make you goon today, anon. Beware the deceit of sin.

>>17864310
Thats works based salvation. If you think anyone besides Jesus has a chance of living the perfect life youve got another thing coming. God doesnt expect you to be perfect after you choose to walk with Christ throughout your life.

>>17865193
>God didnt make you goon today, anon. Beware the deceit of sin.
Non-sequitur
He made me with original sin and trapped me in this world of sin and then threatens to send me to hell if i'm not perfect or don't meet his standards.

>>17865200
he does actually, only prots think you don't have to be perfect.
>b-but muh confession
only helps you in the short term, you need to go to confession literally everyday, even then your odds are extremely slim

>>17865234
>and then threatens to send me to hell if i'm not perfect or don't meet his standards.
nope. you're still getting this part wrong

>>17865242
being autistically pedantic and disingenuous isn't going to convince ne

>>17865244
>being autistically pedantic and disingenuous
No. It's called being precise. You're continuing to wrestle like Jacob on this issue.
What EXACTLY must a person do to be saved in the Christian faith?

>>17865253
The problem is people take it and run with it as a generality. Then you end up with everyone accosting each other and selling all manner of moral and ethical constraints with enthusiasm so immense you cannot discern them, and the scripture is encompassing of all perspectives in itself, so then all you have to abide and depend on, is faith. Faith is the only thing that saves you. Not the doctrines. Not the traditions. Not the churches. Either you take the humility and mercy Christ preached for its totality or you do not, and condemn yourself. Period.

>>17864119
>I don't know of any Christian who believes you need faith in Jesus to be saved

>>17864160
>Fire and gnashing of teeth
>It's just not being around God is all

>>17864119
>I don't know anyone who believes this interpretation besides fundie YECs
NTA, but I grew up among Orthodox Christians, and the religious ones definitely believed this (that hell is a physical fiery place where God puts sinners, and that their souls get literally medieval-style tortured there by demons).

>>17865375
>>17865618
Who gives a shit what low IQ know-nothing Christards believe, they are worthless. You should be keeping up with scientific knowledge, that is the only thing that matters.

>>17864418

I am worth more than you ever will be. I am the best proselytizer Christ has appointed for His kingdom in recent times.

>>17864284
>no capital H
You're fucked. You're going to scream. Scream and scream and scream and scream. Utterly fucked.