Thread 17865699

Is there any primary and contempary source that attests to the existence of an ancient "Israel" or is it just a Zionists fantasy?

>>17865699 (OP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele
>The stele represents the earliest textual reference to Israel and the only reference from ancient Egypt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesha_Stele
>It is the most extensive inscription ever recovered that refers to the kingdom of Israel (the "House of Omri"); it bears the earliest certain extrabiblical reference to the Israelite God Yahweh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_stele
>It is the earliest known extra-biblical archaeological reference to the house of David.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurkh_Monoliths
>The Shalmaneser III monolith contains a description of the Battle of Qarqar at the end. This description contains the name "A-ha-ab-bu Sir-ila-a-a”, providing the first extrabiblical reference to Ahab, king of Israel;

>>17865699 (OP)
Most of ancient Israel's history is fictional, they were never slaves in Egypt, the exodus never happened, the old testament historically is fictional

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Iep4gnmJeRE

>>17865699 (OP)
>>17865745
It did indeed exist and modern Jews do indeed have lineage from it, but it was very different from what the Old Testament says.
>Exodus didn't happen
>Archeological evidence shows that instead of the Israelites conquering Canaan, the Israelites were just another Canaanite tribe that eventually became the dominant one. Hebrew itself is literally a Canaanite language no different from Phoenician or Moabite. Due to how similar they are, I'd argue that they're not even separate languages but rather all dialects of one language.
>The ancient Israelites were polytheistic and later henotheistic. Yahwism (aka proto-Judaism) evolved out of Canaanite paganism. Yahweh was originally a Canaanite storm god that eventually got elevated by the Israelites as the supreme deity and was syncretized with another deity called El (this is also why Yahweh is sometimes called "Elohim" as "Elohim" deprives from "El"). Yahweh even had a consort named Asherah. The Israelites only actually became monotheistic after returning from exile in Babylon, which is interestingly around the same time they made contact with the monotheistic Zoroastrians.
This means that Judaism, Christianity, and by extension Islam are all worshipping a god with roots in Canaanite paganism, and therefore all three are false

>>17865745
> Wikipedia
My God, this board has truly gone to shit.
> Merne stele
Makes exactly ZERO mention of "Israel", it mentions "isiiriar the people".
I have seen it myself.

>It is the most extensive inscription ever recovered that refers to the kingdom of Israel (the "House of Omri"); it bears the earliest certain extrabiblical reference to the Israelite God Yahweh.
Doesn't exist, it's a squeeze that was allegedly made by some guy who claims it belong to some stale.

>×It is the earliest known extra-biblical archaeological reference to the house of David
This one is presented and allegedly extracted by Zionist archaelogist.
It has zero value.
> Kursh
Makes no mention of "Israel".
Not sure how that's relevant.

>>17866039
>Jews do indeed have lineage from it,
I am just gonna go ahead and ignore.
/his/ is not outlet for Zionist fiction, shoo please.

>>17866133
Wiki is better than university

>>17866138
Wiki is utter trash.
It's essentially the modern day ministry of truth, it has incredibly biased editor who will either outrightly lie in their article or insist that any source that disagrees with their narrative is invalid.
What trash.

>>17866039
>Canaanite
No such thing outside biblical fiction.
No region in the Middle East ever bore such a name, which is way said name does not exist in the modern time.

>Everything I don't like is Zionism
The thread.

>>17866152
>>Everything I don't like is Zionism
Not at all what I said.
Anyone making such an absurd claim is most likely a Zionist.
> Dat meme
Also...
> wanting to have a homogenous ethnostate makes you a Zionist shill
For jews, yes.
As you jews have done your best to oppose the creation of a European nation state, pretty much anywhere.
You promote a jewish nation state whilst ensure everyone else lives in a multicultural shithole.

>>17866163
>How dare you accuse me of calling everything I don't like Zionism, you Zionist. The only reason anyone would post something I don't like is because they're promoting Zionism.
The thread

>>17866182
>>How dare you accuse me of calling everything I don't like Zionism, you Zionist
I never called you a Zionist in my previous post, avi.
In fact I mentioned Zionism only twice in my previous post.
Your effeminate, estrogen driven schizo chimpouts are unwarranted.

>>17866039
>modern Jews do indeed have lineage from it
genetically no, there is little to no connection.

>>17866259
>mentioned Zionism only twice in my previous posts.*

>>17866264
He chimped out when he got called out for shilling this myth.

>>17866264
According to genetics, Ashkenazi are 50% similar to them and Mizrahi/Sephardi are 70-90% similar. This is not 'mUh ZiOnIsM", it's called "basic facts supported by geneticists and historians".

>>17866284
>According to genetics,
Who did that study, exactly?
And what did he base the similarity on.
> Ashkenazi are 50% similar to them and Mizrahi/Sephardi are 70-90% similar.
We have no reliable genetic data for ancient Hebrew, hell we have no real way of extracting a viable sample of any ancient DNA, given the rate of DNA degradation, mutation and corruption.
> This is not 'mUh ZiOnIsM", it's called "basic facts supported by geneticists and historians".
It very much is.
By geniticists, you are most likely referring to Zionists.

>>17865699 (OP)
>Zionists, amirite?

>>17866133
>Archaeology I don't like is Zionism.

>>17866135
>Facts I don't like are Zionism.

>>17866163
>You really just posted a Zionism in here, didn't you? God help me, all these Zionists are shilling Zionism.

>>17866265
>Could you please not point out that I'm constantly talking about Zionism in my thread about Zionists, you Zionism shill?

Almost forgot.

>>17866296
>Genetics I don't like are Zionism.

Thanks again OP.

>>17866296
Now this is brown cope lol

>>17866447
>>17866666
Except for Samiritans, all Jews are not descended from ancient Israelites. You do not descend from them. You barely have their genes. Most of the mena input of Jews comes from eastern Turkey and northern Mesopotamia.
1% of Palestine was Jewish 150 years ago according to ottoman census.

>>17866284
source

>>17867430
>We find that the Jewish populations show a high level of genetic similarity to each other, clustering together in several types of analysis of population structure. Further, Bayesian clustering, neighbor-joining trees, and multidimensional scaling place the Jewish populations as intermediate between the non-Jewish Middle Eastern and European populations.
>These results support the view that the Jewish populations largely share a common Middle Eastern ancestry and that over their history they have undergone varying degrees of admixture with non-Jewish populations of European descent.
https://bmcgenomdata.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2156-10-80

>The combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago. The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/

>Arabs and Jews are essentially a single population, and that Palestinians are slap bang in the middle of the different Jewish populations.
>What their analysis suggested was that Palestinians were identical to Jews, but with a small mix of Arab genes – what you would expect if they were originally from the same stock, but that Palestinians had mixed a little with Arab immigrants.
>As far as male lineage goes, the genetic story is very clear. Palestinians and Jews are virtually indistinguishable.
https://patheos.com/blogs/epiphenom/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html

>>17867430
>This pattern is consistent with a major, but variable component of shared Near East ancestry
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23052947/

>Modelling of ancient histories for AJ and European populations using their joint allele frequency spectrum determines AJ to be an even admixture of European and likely Middle Eastern origins.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5835

>More evidence for modern Ashkenazi Jews’ ancient Hebrew patrimony
https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2013/12/20/new-genetic-study-more-evidence-for-modern-ashkenazi-jews-ancient-hebrew-patrimony/

>Most Jews around the world share traces of genetic ancestry originating in the ancient Middle East
https://annas-archive.org/md5/39afe367161d0dd97628ae9ec177f1b0
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0262407910614121

>Their analysis revealed that the Ashkenazi Jewish population is “an even mix” of European and Middle Eastern ancestral populations
https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-10-20/ty-article/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots/0000017f-dc0e-df9c-a17f-fe1e57730000

>Landmark Study Proves 90% of Jews Are Genetically Linked to the Levant
https://archive.is/qLD59
https://www.haaretz.com/2010-06-10/ty-article/landmark-study-proves-90-of-jews-are-genetically-linked-to-the-levant/0000017f-e0bb-df7c-a5ff-e2fba5950000

>Finally, we show that the genomes of present-day groups geographically and historically linked to the Bronze Age Levant, including the great majority of present-day Jewish groups and Levantine Arabic-speaking groups, are consistent with having 50% or more of their ancestry from people related to groups who lived in the Bronze Age Levant
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10212583/

>>17867430
>A majority of Jewish Y-chromosome genes are shared with other populations of the Middle East presumed to be autochthonous to the region. Nearly all these studies have concluded a relationship exists between the major diasporan Jewish, Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Mizrahi populations.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/001354v1.full

>A recent study revealed the presence of both J1a-P58 and J2-M12 Y-chromosomes, frequent among contemporary Jews, in two Canaanite samples date to 3,700 ybp.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5668307/

>Subjects with Jewish ancestry were slightly more heterozygous than the subjects with no Jewish ancestry, suggesting that the genetic distinction between Jews and non-Jews may be more attributable to a Near-Eastern origin for Jewish populations than to population bottlenecks.
https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-2009-10-1-r7

>Many Arabs and Jews are closely related. Over 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years.
https://www.science.org/content/article/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry

>The most parsimonious explanation for these observations is a common genetic origin, which is consistent with an historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/44657170_The_genome-wide_structure_of_the_Jewish_people

>Arab and Jewish groups in the region owe more than half of their DNA to Canaanites
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/dna-from-biblical-canaanites-lives-modern-arabs-jews

>The study confirmed the Middle Eastern, or Levantine, origins of Jews
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2010-06-dna-geographical-jews.html

>>17867430
>Progressively more detailed population genetic analysis carried out independently by multiple research groups over the past two decades has revealed a pattern for the population genetic architecture of contemporary Jews descendant from globally dispersed Diaspora communities. This pattern is consistent with a major, but variable component of shared Near East ancestry, together with variable degrees of admixture and introgression from the corresponding host Diaspora populations.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23052947/

>Here, genome-wide analysis of seven Jewish groups (Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Italian, Turkish, Greek, and Ashkenazi) and comparison with non-Jewish groups demonstrated distinctive Jewish population clusters, each with shared Middle Eastern ancestry, proximity to contemporary Middle Eastern populations, and variable degrees of European and North African admixture.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032072/

>In conclusion, the present study shows that the Middle Eastern populations we analyzed are closely related and that their Y chromosome pool is distinct from that of Europeans. Genetic dating performed in the present study, together with age estimates reported elsewhere (reviewed by Bosch et al. 1999), suggests that the major haplogroups observed in our sample are much older than the populations in which they are found. Thus, the common genetic Middle Eastern background predates the ethnogenesis in the region. The study demonstrates that the Y chromosome pool of Jews is an integral part of the genetic landscape of the region and, in particular, that Jews exhibit a high degree of genetic affinity to populations living in the north of the Fertile Crescent.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/

>>17867430
>The closest genetic neighbors to most Jewish groups were the Palestinians, Israeli Bedouins, and Druze in addition to the Southern Europeans, including Cypriots. The genetic clusters formed by each of these non-Jewish Middle Eastern groups reflect their own histories of endogamy. Their proximity to one another and to European and Syrian Jews suggested a shared genetic history of related Semitic and non-Semitic Mediterranean ancestors who followed different religious and tribal affiliations. Earlier studies of Israeli Jewish, Palestinian and Druze populations made a similar observation by demonstrating the proximity of these two non-Jewish populations to Ashkenazi and Iraqi Jews.
>Monoallelic markers, Y chromosomal and mitochondrial haplogroups, have proven to be very useful for understanding the patrilineal and matrilineal origins of Jewish Diaspora groups. Y chromosomal analysis showed that most Diaspora Jews whose ancestors lived in the Middle East, Europe or North Africa, one to two generations ago, were descended from a smaller group of Middle Eastern men (Hammer et al. 2000). Similar Y chromosomal lineages have been found among Christian and Muslim men who live in the Middle East today.
>With two exceptions, all of the populations had mitochondrial genomes that were of Middle Eastern origin. The Ethiopian mitochondrial genomes were of African origin and the Bene Israel of Indian origin.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3543766/

>>17867530
>>17867532
>>17867539
>>17867541
>>17867544
These papers are all zionist. No, I haven't read them. I'm trans btw.

>>17866039
>modern Jews do indeed have lineage from it
No, they don't because they are mostly of South European or Turkic extraction modern day. This change happened after the destruction of the Third Temple. Modern Jews physically cannot live in Israel without sunscreen
>>17866284
No. They are not semites at all.

>>17865699 (OP)
It's the equivalent of Romania.
Outside of some mongrelised genes, no relation to the former empire.

>>17866284
Arab Palestinians possess closer DNA than israeli jews. If DNA is justification for a colony then this one falls apart you stupid fucking nigger

>>17867717
>the destruction of the Third Temple
Damn you live in the future?

>>17867818
>anti-zionism is anti-colonicalism
wtf i love zionism now

>>17865699 (OP)
In the Bible, when it mentions Israel or the nation of Israel, its referring to jews as a whole. Even when they are slaves of Egypt or wandering around in the desert, they are all referred to collectively as Israel.

>>17867705
lmao

>>17866163
>You promote a jewish nation state whilst ensure everyone else lives in a multicultural shithole.

dis is exactly what's happening

>>17868009
on /pol/

>>17867818
Nope, Arab Palestinians belong exclusively to the J-M267 haplogroup which is entirely Arabian while Jews belong exclusively to the E-M215 haplogroup which is the same haplogroup as the ancient Israelites.
Cope and seethe Ahmed.