Thread 17867180

How does Spain cope with the humiliation?

>>17867180 (OP)
Britain’s cucked government would give it back if Spaniards stopped saying they’re White and played the oppressed BIPOC card.

>>17867180 (OP)
Honestly the yookay has never been weaker, they will retake it soon

>>17867230
you haven't been paying attention to present Spain's affairs, right?

>>17867233
what are those catholic gypsies up to now

>>17867233
What's going on, Spainbros? Did I miss something?

>>17867236
>>17867237
Our ruling socialist party PSOE (which got there thanks to sucking up separatist dick) just got exposed as a literal mafia. We all suspected that, but now its here for everyone to see, so its basically chaos and drama, with all the political parties going full open season on PSOE.

Spain is in no situation to do anything beyond its borders right now.

>>17867180 (OP)
The least of our worries

>>17867255
>just got exposed as a literal mafia
you mean just the basic bitch corruption scandals right, not the minister of public transport getting caught trying to get 20 kgs of meth over the spanish-french border o algo

>>17867261
>you mean just the basic bitch corruption scandals right
Actual serious stuff
>not the minister of public transport getting caught trying to get 20 kgs of meth over the spanish-french border o algo
That wouldn't be too far-fetched at this point...

>>17867180 (OP)
Why don't they just trade Ceuta to Britain in exchange for Gibraltar?

Spain couldn't care less today

>>17867255
>>17867237
>>17867236
Spain with its socialist government is one of the few countries to have condemned Israel for genociding Palestinians.
How are worker's rights in Spain?
What's so bad about this country that it makes Gibraltar the last of your worries?

>>17867180 (OP)
I remember Military History Visualized doing a video on current events a few months ago, I forget what it was about exactly but he mentioned a prediction he got from one of his sources. They predicted that this would be Europe's last summer of peace, and aside from this video most people appear to be forecasting an actual ground war between great powers coming soon. I think it's pretty obvious that Ukraine will fall relatively soon given how quiet the media has gotten and the advances made by Russia, but when it does fall I think that will be the spark. I imagine the fate of Gibraltar will be decided there.

>>17867493
Because it would be the same. Ceuta was Soanish territory since the time of the Visigoths before Jihadists arrived from the east. The count of Ceuta had a lot of influence in the kingdom actually. Why giving up a Spanish territory for another.

>>17867180 (OP)
Charles II of Habsbourg, the last legit Spanish king died without offspring and left in his testament the order that the Crown territories should stay unified no matter who arrived.

The French invaded Spain to fight the Habsbourgs and in order to usurp the crown, started to sold Spanish territories to other nations. They sold Gibraltar and Balearic islands to a pirate island as England. They sold Naples, Milan and theSicily to Austria in order to be at peace with the Habsbourgs. They themselves claimed the Spanish Louisiana.

After the conflict Spain was devastated and the Bourbons instead of trying to reconquer Gibraltar, dragged Spain into French wars and paid the French wars. Pretty the only reason Louis XV didn´t bankrupted so early was the use of Spain as a finantial colony.

And it has been like this ever since. Franco pushed claims on Gibraltar that the Bourbons denied after he passed away.

Republicans were also in the same modus during Civil War, they were willing to sold Spanish territories to Britain and US in order to usurp the power.

>>17867261
It is basic bitch stuff because every gov is a mafia. Tell them you won't pay the protection money- I mean taxes and see what happens.

>>17867180 (OP)
By not having 1 millions little girls getting sold into sexual slavery by Pakis.

>>17867776
I'm a republican, to me, the monarchy makes no sense whatsoever. It's a medieval relic. But... the way some people defend it... I mean, I try to put myself in the shoes of a monarchist or a traditionalist, and I ask myself: why on earth are you defending the Bourbons? Honestly, I don’t care one dynasty over another, but seriously, what good have the Bourbons ever brought to Spain? The trend of marrying your cousins? That already existed, sure, but they really took it to the next level, they fully committed to the whole inbreeding thing.

What else have they brought? The ruin of the nation? I mean, ever since the Bourbons arrived, Spain has done nothing but decline. Some monarchists come at me like, ‘No, but in such-and-such year we gained territory’, come on. The reality is, since their arrival, it’s been a state of absolute chronic decay. Even worse than under Charles II. Just look, their arrival led to the loss of Gibraltar, to a pirate island, no less.

So I ask again: what have the Bourbons ever contributed to Spain? Honestly, I’ll say it outright, apart from being the most reactionary and damaging force to this country, what exactly have they done that's worth defending? I don’t get it.

I can understand monarchists who want to uphold the institution and honor the national history; the Reconquista, the imperial past under the Habsburgs with the Tercios, the conquest of the Americas, the Tridentine reformation… I may not agree with them, but I get it.

But pride in the Bourbons? Really? Pride in a French family that brought ruin to Spain; both in the war against Louis XIV and once they actually took the throne? They've always been a bunch of sellouts, betraying the nation.

I would respect monarchists who defend earlier dynasties that at least brought something of value to the table, even though, as a republican, I oppose to that viewpoint. But the Bourbons? Seriously? Someone please explain it to me, because I just don’t get it.

>>17867255
Nigga you're gay. The PSOE is a cancer but it's just another gay socialist party in Europe, stop with this mafia bs regardless just because Abalos was banging whores.

>>17867776
>and the Bourbons instead of trying to reconquer Gibraltar, dragged Spain into French wars
Remind me, what country were these French wars against? Also don't tell me you've forgotten the war of the quadruple alliance, or the seiges of 1727 (a war fought independently of France) and 79-83. Did the French oppose the Spanish capture of the other Spanish territory the British seized in the war of succession, Menorca?
Your narrative completely ignores reality. The Spanish Bourbons tried to retake Gibraltar and they lost

>>17867776
Loads of bullshit.
>>17867873
Yes.

>>17867776
>They sold Naples, Milan and theSicily to Austria in order to be at peace with the Habsbourgs.
If the Bourbons really didn't care about those regions, they would have just accepted the second treaty of London and wouldn't have started the war of Spanish succession in the first place.

>>17867228
Asking a Hispanic not to identify as White is like asking them to cut off his right thumb

>>17868141
>

>>17867770
Ceuta isn't really Spanish. It was conquered from Morocco by Portugal and only became Spanish when the Portuguese failed to reconquer it in their independence war at the end of the Iberian Union. Ceuta is as Spanish as Gibraltar is English. The main reason to ditch Ceuta is that it has a direct land border with Africa that has to be constantly defended from African border jumpers. And Morocco demanding the land back.

>>17869077
Ceuta is Spanish.
It was part of Spanish Diocesis during Roman era.

And it was of Spanish Visigothic Kingdom during Early Middle-Ages since the Count Julian denied its loyalty to Romans and served the Visigothic monarchy.

Just as other territories, it was part of the reconquered territories usurped by Muslims.

>>17869086
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian,_Count_of_Ceuta
>Julian, Count of Ceuta was, according to some sources, a renegade governor, possibly a former comes in Byzantine service in Ceuta and Tangiers who subsequently submitted to the king of Visigothic Spain before secretly allying with the Muslims.

>This Roman-Byzantine-Visigoth-Berber territory has always been part of Spain because of Count Double Traitor

>>17869094
Yep.
By who did hold in first place it was Spanish before it was Muslim.

But hey, now redpill me about Anglosaxon pirates sailing in Gibraltar during VI century.

kek

>>17867180 (OP)
by having Plan B

>>17867493
>>17869077
Because Ceuta is actually more important to have than Gibraltar. Ceuta is actually a vital point to control the straits, and besides its economical value, its geopolitical value is immeasurable.

>>17867574
Israel with its jewish government is one of the few countries that supported South Africa and Rhodesia.

>>17870200
You'll notice on your map, that Gibs territorial waters only go out 3 miles, whereas the Spanish one goes out 12. According to international rule it's Britain's right to also make Gibs waters go out 12 miles, which would place the straight in British hands. But the UK is a kind and benevolent country that fully respects its ally Spain, so it refused to do so out of principle, something unique and not found elsewhere on the planet.
Of course the Spanish are a childish people, who don't recognise this kindness, but Britain persists in it nonetheless, in the hope they'll one day grow up and learn how to respect other peoples.

>>17870222
>According to international rule it's Britain's right to also make Gibs waters go out 12 miles
And according to the original treaty, the UK only possess the rock, not the waters around it, so the proper territorial waters of Gibraltar should be 0 miles.

>>17870222
My sister was just gangraped by 62 pakistani men and this is my post.

>>17870235
I'm sorry, but you should be aware that territorial waters weren't a thing in 300 years ago. If your government doesn't agree with the 3 mile limit then they shouldn't have signed the UNCLOS agreement
>>17870239
Don't worry Pedro, we're nowhere close to overtaking your pized record of 800 years, especially since you still seem to be adding to it

>>17870270
>we're nowhere close to overtaking your pized record of 800 years
You largely toppled it decades ago as a matter of fact.
I would argue that the invasion of Spain today is far worse than the one in 711 because there wasn't a population replacement and the north africans and arabs settlers were very few in numbers, just the religion changed essentially. Meanwhile Britain demographic situation is far worse than ours, now do the math.

>>17870270
>then they shouldn't have signed the UNCLOS agreement
But the UK signed UNCLOS on its behalf, not on behalf of Gibraltar. Which ironically, is still considered a "colonial territory" by the Decolonization Committee of the UN, while Ceuta and Melilla are not.

>>17870284
>A violent invasion and 800 years of Muslim rule wasn't actually all that bad
Loopy logic that
>>17870291
Ok and? Does Catalonia not have a territorial coast because Madrid signed on its behalf?
>by the Decolonization Committee of the UN,
An organisation which neither Spain or the UK are a part of. Personally I think the will of the people matters more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum
Don't you?

>>17870301
>An organisation which neither Spain or the UK are a part of.
They are in the United Nations, so they are involved with its politics by default.

>Personally I think the will of the people matters more
True, and I genuinely don't think Spain will get it back, but the original point was the territorial waters which is what Spaniards actually care about. Well, that and that Gibraltar basically built its airport outside their zone of jurisdiction, thing that was illegal.

>>17870301
>A violent invasion and 800 years of Muslim rule wasn't actually all that bad
Significantly less bad than what you are going through now, yes definitely. Al Andalus was far whiter than Britain has been at any point in the 21st century and that's an undisputable fact.
>>17870309
kek
>>17870315
Up to a million of your little girl were sold into sexual slavery by south asian but I'm sure a rock which has absolutely 0 incidence on your life compensate for it lol.
Why are British only showing bravado for petty issues like Gibraltar and are not doing anything against the people who are actually raping them daily by the hundreds of thousands? Race of weak cowards.

>>17867493
>swapping our giant rock for an African shithole

>>17870377
Gibraltar has more nafris than Ceuta kek.

>>17870377
>>17870382
According to the 2012 census up to 80% of the population of Gibraltar was of north African origin and only 13% was "british" which very likely include some south asian

>>17870377
Why spanish "men" like this?

>>17867180 (OP)
They don’t, they frequently seethe about it

>>17867228
this unfortunately

>>17870624
Fix your crime rate third worlder before talking about us

>>17870311
>They are in the United Nations, so they are involved with its politics by default.
Not necessarily, for instance the USA rejects UNCLOS, being part of the UN doesn't automatically mean agreement with it's myriad of minor organisations
>Well, that and that Gibraltar basically built its airport outside their zone of jurisdiction, thing that was illegal.
I'll still disagree about the territorial waters, but yeah alright that's true and shouldn't have happened.
>>17870365
>Andalus was far whiter than Britain
Lol, lmao even

>>17870716
>Lol, lmao even
Copium. 25% of your country population is black or south Asian. Of course Al Andalus was FAR whiter.
You're one of these retards who think a few settlers from north africa magically made all the people that lived there magically disappear?
Boris Johnson unironically has more Turkish DNA than the average Umayyad in Spain had Arab DNA, that's the reality. Not to mention that you were led by a full south Asian in recent memory.
You literally don't have the beginning of an idea of what you're talking about on both topics, all you do is coping about the miserable state of your country which is arguably even worse than Poland now.

>>17867493
That would be a bad trade.

>>17870997
Why? Melilla + Ceuta > Gibraltar

>>17870738
100% is a bigger than 25%

>>17871002
A bad trade for the Spaniards, I mean.

>>17871055
Al Andalus was 99% european unless you think that being Muslim suddenly makes you non white.
Averroes wrote about how the Andalusians were better than Arabs and north Africans on virtue of their lighter skin. Writing this in Britain today would get you jailed.

>>17871097
Yes absolutely.

>>17871119
>unless you think that being Muslim suddenly makes you non white.
What other differences are there then? Line up a Pakistani and a Spaniard and (once you shave off the formers mustache) no one would be able to tell which is which.
Makes sense really, the two countries are practically on the same latitude

>>17871167
>hehehe you're brown
The ultimate cope of the low iq nordoid on its way to extinction, it never fails

>>17867180 (OP)
To be honest, I think the Balearic Islands are a bigger headache for both countries.

>>17871186
that's between Spain and Germany, Krautniggers are literally buying the island while Turks are getting over their country. A bloodbath is necessary.

>>17871181
A smart person like yourself should easily be able to come up with a refutation then

>>17871212
A refutation for what? Do I have to refute someone who say something as absurd as 2+2=5?

>>17871432
Refuting 2+2 = 5 is pretty easy though. Use a number line, or for example - here's two • • and here's two • • put em together and • • • • • what d'you get?
Methinks you're just coming up with excuses

The same way italy copes with this

>>17871451
I am sure Italians care more about Sardinia than fucking Malta.

>>17871595
Lots of Italians nationalists care about Malta, the same way they care about Corsica and Nice.
>>17871449
Well you know what? Angloids are closer genetically to pakis than Iberians are, turn out they weren't replacing you guys since you're the same LMAO

Distance to: Kashmiri_Pakistan
0.26957644 English
0.27793748 Spanish_Castello

>>17871186
Why though? The brits have nothing to with the balearics.

>>17870309
Deng had aura, Sp*in didn't

>>17870309
>Juan Carlos
>defending Spain
lol, he basically sold the sahara to the moroccan king

>>17872895
Just say that you bow down to non europeans

>>17872976
Wasn't that Franco?

>>17873022
No, Franco just gave Spanish pussy to the Moroccans

>>17869100
Its simple
>Original romans (iron age italics) were white and conquetrr Gibaltair from semitic sea-jews (Punics)
>Went exctinct during the Imperial age, replaced by mistery meat plebs
>Visogoths and later Anglos (pure nordic white and thus closer to iron age italics genetic samples) retook Gibaltair

>>17872892
Oh really?

>>17868043
>>17867873
>>17867939
Being philo Borbonic in Spain is kinda as being philo-ottomanist in Greece, philo-islamic in India or philo-Russian in Poland.

The House of Bourbon did lead the cultural, political and national destruction of Spanish nation for 3 centuries.

-Selling Spanish territories in Europe and in lesser degree, in America, to usurp the Habsbourg throne.
-Dragging Spain to fight and pay the wars of France in Poland, Austria and 7 Years War.
-Bankrupting the Spanish economy restored by the ministers of Charles II in a failed war in Sicily.
-Banning the Jesuits which were an essential economic and intellectual force in Spanish territories.
-Allowing Napoleon to destroy Spain back into Middle-Ages and to pillage, destroy and profane Spanish artistic and historical heritage.
-Losing the whole of the New World in 2 decades.
-Dragging Spain to a 40 years lasting destructive Civil War during XIX century.
-Giving up Cuba and Philippines to Americans without a real resistance despite they had the means.
-Dragging Spain to the Riff, an steryle desert that French army was unable to control due its rugged terrain and hostile Berber tribes. An steryle resourcesless hostile region which guerrillas costed thousands of innocent lives that could have done more at home.
- Their incompetence did lead the the stablishment of the II Republlic and later on to a bloody Civil War and the Francoist dictatorship.
- Selling out Guinea and the Sahara and making Spain enter the NATO despite people did not want to become part of such an American terrorist organization .

And many more things such as never ending corruption cases.
The House of Bourbon has been the most corrupt, treacherous, fifth-collumn, sellout, nepotist and declining force in Spain.
Not the monarchy in itself, but the House of Bourbon.
If they weren't wanted in their Gallic homeland, that they bankrupted into revolution. What makes yoou think they would do better in a nation whose crown they usurped.

>>17872976
Not to forget his family in itself were a bunch of Calvinists who usurped the throne of a Catholic nation.

I don't understand at all how all the based and redpilled 1488 radcath tradcatherinos chuds of the time didn't crusaded them back to France.

>>17873553
Nigga you're obsessed
Im starting to think you're not even Spanish but a Latinx

>>17873654
Tienes una cita pendiente con la historia de España y con el pensamiento de Juan Prim. Los Borbones, jamás, jamás, jamás.

Eso, o eres un cateto no leal al país sino a una turba de calvinistas impuestos desde Versalles por Luis XIV. En cuyo caso, no eres más que escoria y un subhumano.

>>17873668
The Bourbons were chosen by the Castillan nobility.

>>17873672
Los Borbones aniquilaron Castilla, a la nobleza ganadera de la mesta y la dejaron vaciada llenando la periferia costera.
También jodieron siglos de fueros y tradición legal medieval autóctona por imponer un sistema legal francés.
Y otras cuantas barbaridades que dejaron a Castilla en paños menores ante el mundo.

>>17873672
>>17873678
Meh, not like the Austrian Habsurgs were any better than the Bourbons. Honestly, the Trastamaras were the last royal dynasty worth a shit that Spain had.

>>17873870
The Habsbourgs conquered Mexico, Peru, Mainland, Philippines. Also added Milan and Flanders to the domains of the crown. And kicked French out of Italy.

They were a great dynasty. And the very fact their rule is remembered as the time of Spanish hegemony says a lot when you compare them to the Bourbons. A period characterized by decline and decadente in all fields.

>>17873899
>The Habsbourgs conquered Mexico, Peru, Mainland
The American conquests were basically a Trastamara project. Yes, the Habsburgs actually continued and completed such work, but it was their obligation to do so.

>Milan and Flanders
Meh, Flanders was a dead weight that only did more damage than good and Milan might as well don't exist in the Spanish historiography.

>And kicked French out of Italy.
So did the Trastamara.

>Philippines
The only true conquest that were truly from them, and even then, any island would have served their purpose. The Habsburgs wanted any piece of land close to China for economical and trade purpose and if not the Philippines, any other island like Taiwan (aka Formosa) would have worked and even easier to maintain.

And if we go by that, the Bourbons actually got Spain the Louisiana territory, which was not really a small thing at that time.

>>17867180 (OP)
we have an annual cope session every summer

>>17873022
Franco was literally dying when it happened

>>17873912
Retarded ideas given that Trastamaras and Habsbourgs melted. Ferdinand I of the HRE was raised in Spain by Ferdinand the Catholic while Charles V in Belgium by Maximilian.

The achivements of the Trastamaras and the Habsbourgs past Maximiliam count as one given both dynasties united.

Said so, during Charles V, Philip II, Philip III, Philip IV and Charles II reign all the great expansion projects did happen. The last Mayan kingdom was conquered around 1680s decade. The whole use of missions to expand the territories was an idea born from Dominicans during Charles V reign, and these missions basically lead the colonization of Paraguay, California, Florida (where british assaulted the missions over and over), Texas, New Mexico, Philippines and Venezuela.

>Meh, Flanders was a dead weight that only did more damage than good and Milan might as well don't exist in the Spanish historiography.
From Milan and Flanders came many important money lenders of the crown and generals. The very destruction of the bounds between Spain and its old finantial allies by the Bourbons left Spain totally fucked up finantially, unabled to make war.

>Louisian
Ignoring that Louisiana was totally irrelevant compared to the regions conquered by the Habsbourgs. It was a territory claimed by the Habsbourgs that French usurped taking advantage of Spanish War of succesion (the war they used to usurp the throne btw).

And for worse, the French returned it to Spain because the Bourbons, after dragging Spain once again to a failed war against England in which British conquered Cuba and Philippines, they gave Louisiana not as a reward but because they were not able to defend it so for them it was better in Spanish hands than in British hands.

For nothing because Napoleon traded it to the US and the Bourbons gave it waway wiithout a fight; since everybody knew the Bourbon family in Spain was just a cadet branch serving as puppet rulers of Versalles in Spain which France used as a colony.

>>17874312
The French make the English and Spanish seethe. The Normans who spoke French conquered England and imposed French in the British isles, and the Bourbons who are French, took over the throne of Spain. The French are the ultimate Gigachads of Europe, conquering Spain and England for the Crown of Lilies.

>>17874332
British at least kicked the Normans out and Normans still did a lot for England.
In Spain many retards still defend a cadet branch (put here by Louis XIV) which has systematically eroded the Spanish nation ever since.
Even all the good things that the dictator Franco did in matter of international political autonomy, turning Spain into an industrial power, etc., was given away and fucked up by the CIA-tutored transition into a member of NATO/EU lead by Juan Carlos de Borbón.

To make matters worse, the CIA recently declassified documents that confirmed what everyone already suspected. Juan Carlos de Borbón worked with them to erode the power of the Bunker, the francoist strong men of the regime that wanted to keep Spain a neutral and self-sufficient country.

A French family of sellouts and traitors.

>>17873061
The average Spaniard is infinitely closer genetically speaking to IA Romans than any other European population, even Italy in most cases. Lurk moar newfag

>>17874332
The Bourbon never conquered Spain retard. They were elected to take the the throne and had the support of the majority of the Castillan nobility.
It's a completely different situation from England where the nobility and culture was completely replaced by a French one. Instead in Spain it was Philip V who had to become Spanish.
>The French are the ultimate Gigachads of Europe
I'm mostly French and they are cowardly subhumans who let their country become a rape ground for the lowest life forms of this world. That's why I identify mostly as Spanish even though it's only 1/8 of my heritage. Everyone in France who has some non French background however minimal it is will identify with that first. The only who don't do are Africans because o ly in their case it's an improvement.
>>17874366
You're terminally obsessed. I won't say the Bourbons were faultless and in fact most were bad rulers but look, they didn't rule alone. The failure of Carlos IV and Ferdinand VII are as much the failure of Godoy for example. The whole political corpus of Spain from the late 18th to Franco was astonishingly bad and incompetent.