Thread 17870366

Why do Christians pretend that the Bible is anti-pedo?

>>17870366 (OP)
Because there isn't a single verse arguing for sleeping with kids. There are various verses that determine how much of a defeated tribe Israelites were allowed to absorb. If I were to imagine Israel fucked all survivors each time they kept some, I would probably have to get checked.

>>17870379
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

>>17870366 (OP)
It is pretty common for people to project their current ideal morals to an idealized past in general.

>>17870386
Perfect example. A tribe is defeated and a line is drawn around how much of the tribe can be absorbed. Like always. And like always the Israelites... fu*k them? Is that the idea?

>>17870379
>>17870390
What exactly do you imagine these battle-hardened soldiers did with their war booty and young women, you colossal retard? You were permitted to have as many wives, concubines, and sex slaves as you wanted.

>>17870366 (OP)
Have fun burning.

>>17870399
So you have wifes, you have concubines, you have prostitutes and "sex slaves" and thus you logically... skip them all and fuck a kid from another tribe.
Your entire argument is a coomer fantasy.

corr >>17870419
*wives
Fuck there is no saving this one lol

>>17870419
They were the sex slaves. That's why they were spared and kept. What, do you think that they just adopted them as daughters? Tucked them in bed and kissed them on the forehead at night after reading them a Torah portion? Attended their shofar recitals? No, they took these girls as slaves and fucked them, hence the emphasis on virgin women in the verse, so there would be no confusion as to whether or not the baby popping out 9 months later is a Midianite or Israelite.

>>17870428
The Bible specifies when the survivors are to be kept as slaves. There is no such instruction here.

>>17870431
I'm going to ask you a very simple question. Trace for me what the life of a Midianite girl taken by these men was like after that day. From that day until the day they died. Who took them in? How were they treated?

>>17870435
>Tracing a life trajectories of Midianite girls in ancient Israel
>Base it off of one sentence that might or might not have historical basis
>....very simple question
If this is a simple question then I worry what your difficult ones are. To tell me the Midianite girls' names? Their favorite colours?

But let's see. Midianites were leading Israel astray and Num 25:1 includes a connotation of sexual perversion. The fight against Midianites is a fight for purity. To emphasize this, the scripture records that the pure among Midianites, the women who have not known this perversion, were to be spared. Sadly, in 14th century BC the chances for a girl to survive on her own are low, so merely sparing them and letting them go is not sparing them at all, just prolonging their death. So they were absorbed into Israelite families. Some might have been betrothed and later become wives, some might have become servants, complete infants would probably be adopted as daughters. The story doesn't really require you to know this detail, because the overall message is a fight for purity. And a fight for purity is the furthest context in which we are warranted to conclude "yeah they fucked dem babies".

>>17870366 (OP)
You're telling me that God loves me so much that he would me virgin girls to keep for myself as reward for being faithful to him and somehow I'm supposed to think that's bad?

>>17870455
>Midianites were leading Israel astray and Num 25:1 includes a connotation of sexual perversion.
>"While Israel was staying at Shittim, the people began to have sexual relations with the women of Moab."
Those Midianite and Moabite women were just too damn attractive, luring Israelites away to another culture. Obviously the solution is to kill everyone but the available virgin girls to remove the temptation. They can't lure you away to another culture if there is no other culture.

>>17870455
>>17870799
yes they have sex with children. God allow that.
In the Bronze Age, Jewish law did not explicitly define a minimum age for marriage. While there was no specific legal age, it was customary for men to marry later than women, often in their late teens or early twenties for men, and around age 15-16 for women. Marriage was generally understood to occur after puberty and the onset of maturity, but specific ages weren't formally codified.

>>17870366 (OP)
LOL, nice bait

Let's not pretend ancient norms map cleanly to modern ethics.

>>17870366 (OP)
>>17870399
>>17871692
Why do you guys worship the Book of the people that killed Jesus? I don't think the average retard got it when the new covenant part came up. Which basically means don't listen to anything that came before.

>>17872030
Obey Jesus.

Truth is, women love conquerors.

>>17870386
Deuteronomy 20:10 - 15 says in another instance to spare all the children. Do you think they were taking the male children as sex slaves too?

As the other anon pointed out, there's nothing sexual stated here. It's which members of the group to be destroyed can be salvaged.

>>17870399
>You were permitted to have as many wives, concubines, and sex slaves as you wanted.
There is no sexual slavery permitted in the Old Testament. To have sex with someone you must marry them and they become your wife. Deuteronomy 21:10-14 explicitly addresses this situation, saying "you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife" and "You may not sell her or treat her as a slave".

You severely misinterpreted the text

>>17872108
The existence of that verse doesn't negate the verse already posted lol

Take virgin girls for yourself as plunder either means slavery at best and r*pe at worst

>>17872386
>Take virgin girls for yourself as plunder either means slavery at best and r*pe at worst
Neither of those are legal under Old Testament law. You cannot have sex with a slave; they must become a wife.

The passage in Deuteronomy says to make all the children, male and female. Do you think the male children are for sex too?

(Obviously that happens, but in the Old Testament all male-male sex is strictly forbidden with an automatic death penalty)

Your passage says nothing about sex and parallel orders are clearly not envisioning sex.

The guidelines for captives do say they can be married, but there's a waiting period, they cease to be slaves becoming full spouses with all spousal rights, and if there's a divorce they can go wherever they like. It's clearly treating them with maximum compassion under the circumstances. (They don't have to remain single and childless their whole lives which in that culture was seen as a terrible affliction, but neither can they be married right away and if they do they have to be treated the same as an Israelite would be)

>>17873497
10 “When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God gives them into your hand and you take them captive, 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, 12 and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pare her nails. 13 And she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and shall remain in your house and lament her father and her mother a full month. After that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 But if you no longer delight in her, you shall let her go where she wants. But you shall not sell her for money, nor shall you treat her as a slave, since you have humiliated her.

no it not mean god doesn't allow slave .God allow slavery. In this case, god say about man who want woman to be wife. If they are slavery. You can rape them. Christcuck lying.

>>17873497
You absolutely can fuck your slave! Holy shit. In fact, the only time there's a punishment is if the slave woman is promised to another.
>If a man sleeps with a female slave who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed.
Your sexual ethics are not what was practiced back then, men could fuck as many women as they wanted to granted they were not betrothed, married, virgins under the authority of their father, or close relatives. This kind of refusal to accept the reality of Ancient Israel has to be autism.

>>17870390
Are you being stupid on purpose? Yes. Why would they save only specifically virgin girls if not for the purpose of fucking them?

>>17873763
Why would they fuck them? That's sick.

>>17873763
What's evil about fucking them?

>>17870366 (OP)
the whole point of christianity is that the OT is retarded

>>17874081
Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

>>17874119
>luke
>canon

>>17873497
You are lying as usual

>>17874159
Is it not?

>>17870366 (OP)
>>17870386
Fun Fact: Peor's worshippers were scatfags.

>"Israel settled in Shitim, and the people began to commit harlotry with the daughters of Moav. [The women] called the people to the sacrifices of their gods, and the people ate and bowed down to their gods. Israel attached itself to Baal Peor, and the wrath of Hashem flared against Israel." (Bamidbar 25:3)

>It is safe to say that the most disgusting form of avodah zarah (idolatry) mentioned in Tanach is the worship of Baal Peor. The character of this mode of worship is alluded to in the name of the deity itself. "Peor" (פ.ע.ר.) means "to open," and denotes "the opening of an orifice" - in this case, the rectum, as we shall soon see. Thus, "Baal Peor" means "Master of the Rectum Opening." The method of Baal Peor's worship is codified by Torah she'baal Peh (the Oral Torah) in Sanhedrin 7:6:

>"One who defecates on Baal Peor is liable, for this is how it is customarily worshiped."

>The Gemara (Sanhedrin 64a) provides a rather vivid description of how this worship was implemented in practice:

>"Rav Yehudah said in the name of Rav: There was an incident involving a gentile woman who was very sick. She said, "If I am healed, I will go and worship all of the avodah zarah in the world." She was healed, and went to worship all of the avodah zarah in the world. But when she came to the avodah zarah of Peor, she asked [one of] the priests, "How do you worship this one?" He said, "You eat and drink laxatives and defecate in its face." She said, "I would rather be sick again than to worship avodah zarah like this!"."

>>17874616
>The Gemara then reports that the highest level of Baal Peor worship was, sadly, demonstrated by a Jew:

>"But the Jews were not that way... There was an incident involving Savta ben Elas who rented out his donkey to a gentile woman. When they reached Peor she said to him, "Wait here until I go in, [worship], and come out." After she came out he said to her, "You, too, wait for me until I go in, [worship], and come out." She asked him, "But aren't you a Jew?" He responded, "That's none of your business." He went in, defecated in its face, and wiped himself on its nose, causing the priests to praise him saying, "We've never seen anyone worship like this before!"."

>Those who learn these facts about Baal Peor for the first time are likely to react by falling to their knees, gazing heavenward with outspread palms, and exclaiming, "WHYYYY????"

>As "civilized Westerners" with "modern sensibilities" it is difficult enough to relate to the standard modes of avodah zarah, such as bowing down to a statue or offering incense and libations - but at least we can understand the appeal in such rituals. Baal Peor, on the other hand, runs contrary to all of our common-sense assumptions about religion, both modern and primitive. To my knowledge, human feces is regarded as repulsive across all cultures and time periods. The notion of a religion built around bowel movements strikes us as absurd

>>17874623
>The question is: What was the appeal of Baal Peor? How could dung be elevated to the level of devotion? How could people regard excrement as sacrament? How could poo prove piety? ... okay, that's enough scat-talk for now

>Today I came across an explanation given by Rav Hirsch which opened up an entirely new world of insight for me. He writes:

>"There were various baalim, deified powers. There was Baal Tzefon, a midnight god of the desert (Shemos 14:2). In contrast, there was Baal Maon (Bamidbar 32:38), a god of dwelling places, and Baal Bris (Shoftim 8:33), a god of the union of people. There was also Baal Zevuv (Melachim II 1:2), apparently a god of decay to whom they would turn in times of illness and inquire of him about life and death."

>"And there was also Baal Peor, a god of shamelessness, who was worshiped by giving brazen prominence to the most bestial aspects of human life. Hence, Hoshea says: "They came to Baal Peor and dedicated (va'yinazru - from the same root as "nazir") themselves to shamefulness" (Hoshea 9:10) - [that is to say, they] sanctified/designated themselves for shamefulness."

>The cult of Peor is an illustration of the type of Darwinism that glories in man's descent to the level of the beast, where, stripping himself of his Divinely-given nobility, he comes to regard himself as merely a highly-developed animal

>>17873523
You explicitly quoted it saying "nor shall you treat her as a slave"

>>17873544
>You absolutely can fuck your slave!
And what passage says this?

>men could fuck as many women as they wanted to granted they were not betrothed, married, virgins under the authority of their father, or close relatives

Not so, the penalty for fornication is a fine and you must marry the woman. Exodus 22:16 says "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife".