Thread 17889119

Why would God place a tree in the garden that he doesn't want them to eat from, in the first place?

>>17889119 (OP)
The story goes that those angels which fell were punished for it, their spirits bound to the earth.

>>17889121
What the fuck does that have to do with my question?

>>17889119 (OP)

Test of faith and trust in the Lord.

>>17889123
they are the same story

>>17889119 (OP)
It's an allegory for Israel disobeying the Torah. That's it. It didn't happen, all of Genesis 1-11 is a much later addition to the book meant to describe the history of the world through the viewpoint of the priests. It's just a way to say that you'll be punished for disobeying God. God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit, now you have to work in the fields and your wife will die in childbirth. Now God is giving you the Torah, so follow it or else worse things will happen.

>>17889119 (OP)
God wasn't omniscient or truly omnipotent.
So, El here, not God, seemingly placed the tree their for his own convenience because evidently, he is the only one allowed to eat the fruit.
>>17889125
It's funny, because God was lying in the end. He said they would die and they didn't.

>>17889134
>God was lying in the end. He said they would die and they didn't.

>"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die." (Genesis 2:17)
>"Thus all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred thirty years, and he died." (Genesis 5:5)
>"But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day." (2 Peter 3:8)

I always thought the author of 2 Peter was just coping here, but now I realize he may have had an unspoken argument up his sleeve.

>>17889119 (OP)
Probably for the angels to eat and gain wisdom.

>>17889119 (OP)
>doesn't want
Prove it. They had no concept of good or bad. The sin they got expelled for was hiding from God (and maybe blaming another), not eating.

>>17889152
>God meant a day for him, not for you
Eh, it doesn't make sense to word it that way.

>>17889119 (OP)
It's an allegory for prehistoric humanoid hunter gatherers.

It is meant to be a temptation. Those that eat from the tree will never enjoy the sight of God leading the righteous while his throne is carried by the chayyoth.

>>17889424
You just make God sound like a troll

>>17889119 (OP)
>being THIS buttmad that the God of the Universe chooses to make kino instead of making everyone a soulless automaton.
unironically? ngmi

>>17889121
That is a lie

We find out in Job satan can just pop up in jewgod's heavenly courts if he wants to

>>17889426
Kino here being endless suffering, hopelessness, war, famine, sickness, and death. What an amazing loving god

>>17889434
For me it's absurdism. There's no one out there, shit's all a dream. Feels slightly better than thinking you have to blame some specific god for everything.

>>17889434
LOL!
you see, like in a match of Halo, there need to be noobs to pwn. you are a noob to pwn.
that is to say, for some to have glory, there are some that must be put to shame.
you actively choose to be put to shame though.
it's like quitting the game because you're a noob

>>17889440
absurdism is pretty much nihilism with optimistic sugarcoating. I supposse that's better than many things people choose to believe nowadays, so not that bad. Best of luck, m8

>>17889446
>Videogame analogy

>>17889456
God forbid I analogize.
Maybe address the analogy or argument. Have you simply never played video games before, fellow 4chan.org poster?

>>17889451
Thanks dude. I realized that hope is also just a emotion but it's preferable to despair so might as well think about that more often. I'd like to experience some love and hope and join a group of nice people and then just pretend to believe whatever they do, but so far no luck. The churches always want to bundle their human connections with kindergarten guilt trip and boring bible trivia which is off-putting.

>>17889434
someone didn't read Job

>>17889470
Job is the greatest testament to "God's" evilness.

>>17889474
Interesting that you would take that away from reading Job. Also don't say "evilness" (that's a retarded non-word) just say "evil".

>>17889477
He is correct

God made a covenant with man to protect and bless those who follow him job was blameless in this regard (this is why jobs friends were perplexed he was being "punished")

Turns out god's promises are worth dog shit when it's betting night with his buddy Lucifer morningstar lol

>>17889152
The Seventh Day adventist classic.
Though I think it makes little sense for an Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent being to be A: Restricted to a particular form of perceiving time, B: Ignorant of his creations different perception of time, C: Unwilling to adapt his language to help his creations understand what he is trying to tell them.
Then again a Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnibenevolent God would probably have found a better way of saving humanity if He truly wanted to. Like give everyone implicit knowledge of Jesus Christ being the lord and saviour and his commandments instead of whatever the fuck it is we got.

>>17889572
It's just hilarious that somehow the tribal storm warlord old testament god is supposed to be the same dude as the omniwhatever super philosophy spacealien ghost new testament one. Maybe he evolved over a few centuries.

>>17889119 (OP)
>Calvinism is retarded
>Therefore my hatred of God is okay and I'm not going to burn
Tick tock.

>>17889599
>Tick tock.
I recognize your posts. You are a sadistic demon who relishes in other peoples suffering.

>>17889119 (OP)
>Why would God place
Because the soul is an emanation from the Barbelo, and consequently from God.
>a tree that he doesn't want them to eat from
God has always wanted adam and eve (and by extension their children) to eat the fruit of knowledge

>>17889119 (OP)
Because it's His garden?

>>17889604
No, I'm just a normal guy.

>>17889152
>God was lying in the end. He said they would die and they didn't.
They did, both in a spiritual and physical sense.

>>17890353
It sas they would die the moment they eat; that didn't happen

>>17889119 (OP)
hmm.....

>>17890367
Spiritually they lost their communion with God, and that's actually more important than the fact that they had doomed themselves to physical death as well.

>>17890382
the wording is specific so no.

it always means physical death and simply dying.

if they wanted to infer what you are trying to say they would have gone with something like "become mortal" or whatever

>>17890382
They didn't though; genesis says the spirit of god was still with them

>>17890419
See the following:

"For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."
- Romans 7:9

Same thing here. Our sin separates us from God. It is Christ and only Christ, as our Lord, who can bring us near to God once again.

The wages of sin is death, as it says in Romans chapter 6. An unrepentant sinner, someone who has broken and offended God's law, is only waiting to be sentenced. The only thing left is for God to read the sentence and that person will die, although He has often given us space, in His infinite wisdom and generosity, to come to Him. As it says, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9).

>>17889152
>>17889200
Origen and likely many early Christians believed the scriptures contained oddities and incongruities like this specifically to convince the reader that a deeper meaning was intended than the literal, so 2 Peter may have derived his idea from Genesis under that assumption (or, if not him, then someone else who he got the idea from), that the incongruity in the Genesis account, with God apparently lying, indicated that the story was intended to be taken non-literally. Paul more openly reads very non-literal interpretations into scripture, like in Galatians 4:24, where Paul straight up says that the story of Abraham having children by one free woman and one enslaved woman is an allegory.

https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.vi.v.v.i.html
(picrel source)

Interestingly, elsewhere in 2 Peter, there's a verse commonly used to oppose reading secret messages into scripture, 2 Peter 1:20, translated by the KJV to say "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" though by a footnote in the NRSV it could be understood to instead say that "no prophecy of scripture is a matter of the prophet's interpretation." which has a decidedly different meaning. Like, "Screw whatever the writer probably thought they were saying, we have to understand what the Holy Spirit was implying through it." Very death of the (human) author. But then 2 Peter seems to be strongly opposed to that type of thinking with regard to the gospels and Paul's letters, so the KJV translation does seem more congruous on the whole.

>>17890493
>>17890493
Simon Magus, purported father of Gnosticism, was very enthusiastic about allegorical interpretation of the Torah.

>And when Moses says, “In six days God made the heaven and the earth, and on the seventh rested from all his labors,” (He tells of a great mystery. And this one may see from the absurdities that confound those who take his words as a literal account. For upon the fourth day, Moses says, God made the sun and the moon to exist. Yet he had called the light into being already on the first day!)...

>So when he speaks of the Garden, Moses referred allegorically to the womb. (Or so he must,) if we are to believe the word (and not dismiss it as nonsense)...

https://thegodabovegod.com/great-declaration-simon-magus/

>>17890425
yeah yeah jewgod creates the problem and sells you the solution

everyone knows the gist of your cult

>>17889125
>Test of faith

but jahve is omniscient; he already knew what they would do from the beginning...?

if he didn't than he wouldn't be omniscient

>>17889119 (OP)
This image insults Lucifer

>>17889403
lol, no it's not - people writing this had no clue about hunter gatherers

>>17889119 (OP)
The Tree of Knowledge was a test of free will... Without choice, obedience means nothing. God wanted genuine relationship, not robotic compliance. Of course, it backfired spectacularly (thanks, Eve and Adam), but the point was trust over temptation.

>>17892638
>what is omniscience?
your cosmology makes 0 sense

>>17890519
>>17893066
Enjoy Hell.

>>17889119 (OP)
The tree wanted to be there but this defense… too late to have sex with her.

>>17889119 (OP)
>Why does the writer put conflict in his story

>>17894308
A writer is creating fictional characters that aren't conscious and doesn't claim to love them. There is no moral value attached to making something bad happen to someone in a fictional story.

>>17889463
>I realized that hope is also just a emotion but it's preferable to despair so might as well think about that more often.
That's good thinking. Hope doesn't do much by itself, but its what we do with it what truly makes it something valuable to have. Like a tool
>I'd like to experience some love and hope and join a group of nice people and then just pretend to believe whatever they do, but so far no luck
Be careful, you might get too much into their thing. I advise you to stay away from the New Age type, those are the worst by far. Stay safe.

>>17894321
There's also no moral value to making something bad happen to people in an allegory

>>17889119 (OP)
The demiurge did and "prometheus" was the Holy Spirit (Christos/Logos).

>>17894321
>talking about love as if it were objective
good luck proving that.
that's how all of this begins.

>>17894691
God makes bad things happen to people in every day life.

>>17895120
Whether or not unicorns exist, we have a name for magical one-horned horses, so we can discuss them.
Similarly, whether or not a purely good being exists, we have a name for that.

If it causes bad, then it isnt God.
The question is then: can such a thing exist?
Yes - but only if goodness exists more fundamentally than evil. And it does.
Can you be convinced that evil is just the absence of / deviation from goodnees?

>>17896283
>If it causes bad, then it isnt God.
The god of Israel says in his own holy book that he causes bad things to happen to people. You should try actually reading it sometime so you know what you're worshiping

>I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil (calamity), I the LORD do all these things

>>17893235
ngl playing Doom IRL sounds better than being surrounded by christcucks forever

>>17889119 (OP)
because christcuckery is "king of retards", the religion

>>17890519
Cringe, I hate that this website it’s filled with demons. I’ll leave this place soon

>>17896737
I wish you would but you're just being dramatic again. See you tomorrow anon.

>>17889462
the use of a video game analogy is already enough to disregard your take but it's not even a good analogy.
you're basically admitting that God wants suffering

>>17896694
The bible is actually a fairly flexible text and its interpretation isnt straightforward.
It isnt the word of god, but of inspired men.

You should read it in good faith.

>>17896927
"good faith" means assuming it's true, to you

>>17896981
Yes actually. It behooves you to consider that your ancestors might have had a point.

>>17897529
If you go back far enough my ancestors were not Christian

>>17897539
Well, if you go back even further they're picking bugs off each other's backs. All the same it behooves you.

>>17897659
So Christniggers suddenly believe in evolution now? lmao get the fuck out of here

>>17897662
You have a choice, bud. If you dont want to think about it, you don't have to.

>>17897744
kill yourself

>>17889440
You are still blaming the dreamer, though, just kind of dismissive because its some kind of subconscious urge to cause suffering.

>>17897662
this, to be a good christn*g*er you have to be thoroughly retarded, or else you're going to double hell for being a bad goy and starting to ask questions, get in line, goy

>>17897662
>suddenly
I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

>>17889119 (OP)
Why do you have chocolate in your home if you don't want your dog to eat it?

>>17897795
Why do you need me to die, Koba?

>>17898178
There's nothing retarded about repentance, bud. It's hard but it's doable.
What makes you an expert on theology?

>>17898746
Well I don't put it in the floor where he can reach it and then tell him not to do it expecting the animal to "know better".
That's essentially poisoning your dog on purpose.

>>17896708
>playing Doom IRL
Nothing like that is going to happen. You are going to be alone, separated from your farthest acquaintance, with nothing but your regret to distract you from the dread flames which consume your worthless body. Tick tock.

>>17889188
Four days later, not one (You). God has a comcept of good and evil, Adam and Eve didn't, which conflicted with the objective of making them in His image. God clearly wanted them to learn the difference. If they didn't eat, God would probably have given them a different kind of lesson. Instead they ate, and they learned the difference, and realized that they just did something bad. They were ashamed of themselves, ashamed of being seen naked by their own spouse, ashamed of laying bare their souls, of being honest. Ashamed of being seen by God. They knew telling God about it was the correct course of action. Instead they cowardly turned away from Him, hid, blamed someone else. The original sin is dishonesty.

Do "Christians" who relish in the idea of other people going to Hell seriously think they're going to be in Heaven why they die?

>>17899884
Who tempted eve

Who created Lucifer

Why does the prime mover want the praise of a god without the responsibility of one lmao

>>17889131
>It's just a way to say that you'll be punished for disobeying God
then why does God bless Adam and Eve when expelling them? Their disobedience of God's one commandment to them set the stage for history to begin.

>>17900331
he didn't want them to die before his torture planet could fully kick off

>>17889125
Faith and trust are not the same as obedience. You do not follow every command of people you trust wholeheartedly.
god sought obedience from his creations and scorned them once they crossed a single rule.

>>17899910
Again. The pronlem was not the temptation. The problem was not the serpent. The problem was not that they took from the prohibited tree.
If you did not know the difference between good and bad, would you prefer trust over distrust? How about two conflicting wills?
The problem was their reaction.

>>17899702
What part of that is worse than being surrounded by christcucks?

>>17900331
Read Jeremiah 29 if you want an understanding of how God works.

>>17899910
Again. The problem was not the temptation. The problem was not the serpent. The problem was not that they took from the prohibited tree.
If you did not know the difference between good and bad, would you prefer trust over distrust? How about two conflicting wills?
The problem was their reaction

>>17902157
Those flames just got hotter. Tick tock.