Thread 17891913

Only serious posts please...

>>17891913 (OP)
Unfortunately no, they couldn’t even neutralize the North Vietnamese 20 years later.

Could the US military have made landfall on an island nation with 30,000 km of coast and no navy or air force, and no fuel for navy or air force if such existed, and no tanks or artillery tubes, or fuel for such tanks or trucks to make tank units maneuverable, with barely any food? I think so. Some would point to photographs of middle school girls holding bamboo spears and say the Japanese would have repelled any invasion because of their guts and grit.

>>17891929
Retarded take.

No. It was a good plan, but nuking Japan was just better for everyone. The original pre-Quadrant plan was even worse, stating they would not invade Japan until 1947.

Literally nothing would happen. The Americans would land on the shores, fight for a few weeks, and Japan surrenders anyways because the USSR was invading Manchuria and the US was blockading the islands into famine.

>>17891929
if you look at the rules of engagement imposed on the forces there by the "pentagon", you might come to the conclusion they were well and truly being fucked with. shit's been compromised for a good long while.

>>17891913 (OP)
>Could it really be pulled off by the US army in 1945?

Sure, the U.S. was at its peak and only getting stronger and planned to use nukes if necessary along with a conventional invasion. Pretty much all the Japanese would have died.

>>17891913 (OP)
The scale of that invasion would have been insane if It actually came to pass. Allies would have had more men than Germans did during Barbarossa.

>>17891913 (OP)
it would be slaughter
the nips would be starved, bombed, burned and gassed

>>17892335
>razing crops
>chemical warfare
>more bombs dropped than ww2
Holy cope mutt

>>17893071
He means that US armored divisions weren't allowed to just go on an offensive, and take Hanoi you dumb fuck.

bumpo

>>17891913 (OP)
No, Americans can’t fight

>>17892310
> nuking Japan was just better for everyone
Hello, Zhang! Tiananmen square 1989

>>17892322
The Soviet invasion of Manchukuo didn’t cause Japan’s surrender

>>17892858
> the nips would be starved, bombed, burned and gassed
And the US still would’ve lost

>>17894178
That was in 1942 you retard, before American war machine started heating up.

>>17894196
No, it would not you moron.

>>17893354
yes, and can't use artillery on michelin rubber trees. can't shoot trucks some distance off of the ho chi minh. intricate rules for air engagements, and can't take out sam sites while building them only after, or not at all because they were a gift from the soviets. just search, you'll find tons of ludicrous shit. and all the while ramping up personnel. demoralization campaign.

>>17894200
bumpo

>>17891913 (OP)
>Could it have been pulled off
Yeah obviously
>Would it have been successful
Probably not.

>>17892538
Would have been absolutely glorious, it's crazy that they just gave up

>>17894200
Nah I agree with him, I don't think America would have had the willpower to fight the Japanese for the length of time required to completely exhaust the Japanese people. Remember that 20 million Chinese people were killed over the course of eight years of war with Japan, that was with extremely loose rules of engagement and borderline genocidal warfare. America would have had stricter rules, so it probably would have taken even longer to inflict similar casualties on the Japanese. I know you're thinking, they don't need to kill that many people, but it was commonly reported that Japanese literally fought to the last man on the regular. Unironically tens of millions of Japanese would have died before the war would truly have ended.

>>17895623
What happened to Japan in in China is really completely irrelevant to a putative American invasion of Japan. China has a far greater strategic depth than Japan, which has practically none. Once the enemy lands, that's it for Japan. They can't retreat into the mountain hinterlands because they would be like 20 minutes by car from Tokyo regardless.
Also, the IJA had maybe the 100,000th of the power and maneuverability of the US military in 1945.

>>17894198
cope

>>17894200
Americans can’t handle high casualties. Fighting in mainland Japan would’ve been too much for them

>>17896593
>co-ACK!

>>17896594
I think people overstate how costly an invasion of Japan would have actually been for the US. The first few months would have been bad sure, but after that mass starvation would have set in and made the Japanese military inert.

>>17896817
>The first few months would have been bad sure, but after that mass starvation would have set in and made the Japanese military inert.
Japanese military was already immobile. The US had air and naval supremacy. It would be a matter of picking a landing spot then isolating and destroying Japan piecemeal through a steady push mixed with unopposed amphibious landings.

>>17896947
>unopposed

You do realize that by mid 45 the Japs had
fortified every piece of their land that was suitable for landing?

>>17896966
>fortified every piece of their land that was suitable for landing?
Dumbass lol ww2 isn't the middle ages, slapping on a pillbox on a hill isn't going to stop anyone. The Germans too had fortified every piece of land that was suitable for landing.

>>17896973
>The Germans too had fortified every piece of land that was suitable for landing.

No, they didn't? Beaches of France were less fortified than beaches of Germany.

>>17896966
>>17896984
Shoreline defense was a dead meme by 1945. There was no chance that the Japanese would have been able to adequately defend every suitable landing area, nor would they have wanted to anyways. The IJA almost uniformly switched to defense-in-depth tactics by late-1944. That's why L-Day on Okinawa was a nothingburger of a landing despite being Japanese home soil.

>>17894189
It was a contributing factor
They lost the Kuril Islands. They would have lost Hokkaido eventually

>>17894186
fat amerinigger

>>17897438
I’m British, idiot

>>17892335
>we only lost in 'nam because the pentagon is run by commies
holy cope

>>17891913 (OP)
By 1945 the Japanese were giving bamboo spears to civilians. Every civilian with a spear is one less civilian growing rice, and their soldiers were already subsisting on maggots and grass. Most of their industries and transports was burned down.

The Americans however were well-fed, well-armed and, more importantly, their industrial base was untouched. Sure. The Japs could still kill and the kamikazes could sink a lot of ships- but the Americans could replace those losses.

And if, nothing else works. Wait for them to become bone and skin while the Russian bear starts marching down from the North starting from Hokkaido to Tokyo.

>>17897014
>They would have lost Hokkaido eventually
The Soviet navy had no capacity to launch a large amphibious landing like that.

>>17895623
>Remember that 20 million Chinese people were killed over the course of eight years of war with Japan, that was with extremely loose rules of engagement and borderline genocidal warfare.
*2 billion

>>17892322
>and Japan surrenders anyways
You seemed to have missed the part where Japanese officers tried to launch a coup to stop Hirohito from surrendering. There were plenty of die hards around that wanted to fight to the glorious death.

>>17895623
>Remember that 20 million Chinese people were killed
Most of them died from starvation because Chiang seized all the grain and stockpiled it in warehouses where it rotted because he thought the upcoming fight with the communists was more important than anything.

>>17898346
So how did Russia take the other half of Sakhalin and the Kuril islands?

>>17897537
It’s more because they didn’t want to escalate tensions with China.

>>17892538
MY LAI A MONTH

>>17898358
You seem to have missed the part where said diehards failed brilliantly. Not that them succeeding would have meant anything, they'd get couped right afterwards.

>>17898364
No.

>>17891929
>The Soviets would have failed against Germany, they couldn't even neutralize the Afghanis 30 years later

>>17900097
They certainly would have failed against Germany without Western assistance.

>>17891929
By this logic you must think nobody would be able to beat anyone else because almost every country has lost a military conflict at some point

>>17900103
>without Western assistance.
You mean the west which would proceed to lose in Vietnam, Africa, Korea and Afghanistan?

>>17900154
On none of those occasions was the full might of two superpowers brought to bear on one country. That’s the only way they could’ve won, as WW2 clearly shows.

>>17891913 (OP)
Hello, retard here.
Why couldn't they just completely blockade the Japs from getting things like oil, but still let food and medicine through? No nukes necessary, no boots on the ground, no nip babbies starved to death

>>17894178
What % of that 100k were filipino farmers?

>>17898854
well no shit. the us army wasn't marching on hanoi because it would start ww3 and americans at that time were smart enough to understand ww3 is a bad thing
that has nothing to do with the pentagon being "subverted" and "compromised" like retarded rightoids think

>>17898847
judeo-bolshevik blood magic obviously. they had rasputin cast a levitation spell on their tanks

>>17900218
As it appears you've completely forgotten the topic at discussion, it's whether or not the US could take Japan. China by 1970 would be very much opposed to America unleashing everything it had on Hanoi, but why on Earth would 1945 China be in any way opposed to the Americans unleashing whatever they had to to get the Japs to surrender?

>>17900187

Our army in the Philippines during the Japanese invasion was 2/5ths American and 3/5ths Filipino.

>>17900187
Probably like 95%. The Philippine army was 4 Flip divisions and 1 US army division that was made up of Flips other than officers, 1 US artillery regiment that was Americans, and some Flip randos they could conscript in a rush.

>>17900465
There were not 40k American servicemen in the Philippines in 1942.

>>17891913 (OP)
>>17892852
>>17900183
downfall was never going to happen, once okinawa was secured the americans were going to be able to just bomb and be fly over japan with total impunity

>>17898847
Because the garrisons were ordered by IJA leadership to ceasefire, and also because the Soivets were able to invade overland on Sakhalin. With that said, the Soviet landing at Shumshu was amateurish and probably would have ended in failure had a ceasefire not occurred.