Something is bugging me /his/. Stalin's name comes from the word "stal" meaning steel. This word must have been imported into Slavic from early Norse, the word stal also appears in my Norse dictionaries. I grew up being told that steel wasn't common until after the "renaissance" or around the time of the industrial revolution and nearly everything we had was low quality iron. The highest quality iron in some places resembles low grade steel, but it's rare. But if steel is so rare, then why did the Slavs import the word for steel from the Norse so early? That would have happened in the 900s or so. We know from the Rus Chronicle and surrounding texts that after the 11th century Russia radically Slavicizes its culture.

The Norse seem to have been lovers of early iron working. One word for greedy is "fegjarn" which means "greedy"- BUT the word is made up of two other words meaning "iron" and "hungry". But we're supposed to act like Germanic peoples were poking each other with sticks even after the Romans said they had advanced armies, equivalent cavalry, and better organized forces.

I supposed what I'm saying is that we cannot accept that the Norse were behind in any way, and they were probably more advanced all along in material sciences.

https://old-icelandic.vercel.app/word/fegjarn

>muh advanced aryans
why are nazis like this

>>17896401 (OP)
>why did the Slavs import the word for steel from the Norse so early? That would have happened in the 900s or so
So you should have no problem finding the world Stal in medieval Russian sources then?

>>17896412
So you're saying the modern Slavs adopted an old Gothic word? Why would they do that?

I don't have this yet:https://slavica.indiana.edu/concise-dictionary-of-old-russian/

>>17896404
Isn't it Caesar that points out that the Celts had iron weapons? My Latin teacher taught us that the Romans did not even use iron until they fought the Gauls.

>>17896412
Actually- yes! This has turned out to be a huge topic with many scholars noting the relationship between Germanic exporting and Slavic importing!

It goes even deeper than words, we're talking deep grammar. Even aspect may have been developed by the Goths and exported to Slavic.
https://pure.uva.nl/ws/files/1873712/115846_FS_HP_Genis.pdf

But there are a host of Germanic loan words. I always knew that maritime terms didn't exist in old Slavic, but there's more to expand on there:https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=0iWLAgAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=norse+gothic+slavic&ots=3BgqMlkdB8&sig=gKBr1jnVqanYakXIWBo9fDQglRE#v=onepage&q=norse%20gothic%20slavic&f=false

>>17896401 (OP)
>This word must have been imported into Slavic from early Norse, the word stal also appears in my Norse dictionaries
It's literally the same word in German. What now

>>17896521
German also comes from Norse. We've already proven that Gothic, eastern Norse, influenced Slavic here:>>17896436

Likewise, before France spoke Romance they spoke Frankish and before the English spoke modern English they spoke a thick Anglo-Saxonized language that supplanted that of the Briton. Germanic expansion began at least in the 200s AD, but there's material evidence it goes back another 500 years previously.

>>17896401 (OP)
>Stalin's name comes from the word "stal" meaning steel. This word must have been imported into Slavic from early Norse.
How about no? "Stal" replaced another word in Polish in the 15th century. Czechs still use that other word ("ocel") for steel. There's nothing Norse about it you fag

>>17896401 (OP)
It probably came from German ("stahl") in the 18th century, and the Tsarist aristocracy had a bunch of Germans in it, and they tried to LARP as Germans going back to Peter the Great.

>>17896401 (OP)
>But if steel is so rare, then why did the Slavs import the word for steel from the Norse so early?
Who said they did? The Russian word for steel probably comes from the German "Stahl" somewhere during/after Peter the Great >>17896549

>>17896534
>Czechs still use that other word
Czechs say they existed around the 11th century and that's false. They even claim that explicitly German kings, who spoke German, called themselves German, fought for German commanders- were secretly "Czech" all along. Keep in mind that modern Czechs don't actually come from the Czech republic. Tsar Nicholas II transported a fifth of a million people to the area to call themselves "Czech" and fight for their independence. These people had previously been Russian living between Galicia, Poland, and Ruthenia. It's the fakest thing on Earth and only historians from the Czech republic believe there was any Czech past, and only because their government pays them to go along with the lie.

>>17896551
What's your evidence for this theory?

>>17896552

>From Old Norse stál, from Proto-Germanic *stahlą, from Proto-Indo-European *stak- (“to stay, be firm”).

So if it comes from PIE then that means the northern Europeans had access to steel possibly even earlier than the classical period.

>>17896549
So you're saying that Russians did not have steel before Peter the Great? There's no steel in Russia prior to 1721? Despite the Rus having steel cannons,boat fittings, and instruments prior?

>>17896555
https://gufo.me/dict/vasmer/%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C

>>17896556
Read'em and weep. Letters from your supposed "Czechs" in the medieval period all point to them being Germans. Even the house of Wettin is relabeled "Premyslid".

Slavs just rename German things to Slavic and pretend it was always Slavic. It's literal insanity.

>>17896567
So you're saying that the Poles did not have steel until the modern post 1500s Germans brought it to them? To be clear, that is what you're claiming? So we won't find any evidence that they had a need for that word prior to the 16th century arrival of German steel?

>>17896574
>So you're saying
No, no and no. All I'm saying is Russians didn't take their word a thousand years ago from the Norse, therefore the entire OP post is wrong

>>17896401 (OP)
>weird history
and also wonder how they could so readily embrace feudalism and christianity in so short a time. i'd guess it wasn't a democratic process

>>17896579
>All I'm saying is Russians didn't take their word a thousand years ago from the Norse
But they took the word "duma" from the Goths, that's already in the source above. The Russian government is using a Gothic word for their governing assembly right now.

>>17896583
>b-but...
I've already given you the source for steel, what are you still arguing about?

>>17896401 (OP)
>This word must have been imported into Slavic from early Norse
On what basis? Stal has Germanic roots but that is easily explained by the slavs getting access to it from trade which inevitably means it came from some germanic region.
And the guys they buy it from call it stal/stahl/stāl/stael/stahel etc.

>>17896589
>source
>gufo.me
lmfao wtf anon, that's hardly a source. You might as well link me a facebook post.

>>17896592
If you weren't an illiterate faggot you'd know that the source is a well-known Russian etymological dictionary
>Этимoлoгичecкий cлoвapь pyccкoгo языкa Maкca Фacмepa пpинaдлeжит к чиcлy caмых aвтopитeтных этимoлoгичecких cлoвapeй нaшeгo вpeмeни. Oн coдepжит 18 тыcяч cлoвapных cтaтeй. Aвтop cлoвapя — кpyпнeйший этимoлoг-cлaвиcт — дaёт cвoдкy этимoлoгичecких иccлeдoвaний pyccкoй лeкcики пo cocтoянию пpиблизитeльнo нa 1960 гoд. Пepeвoд cлoвapя был ocyщecтвлeн в 1964—1973 гoдaх. Maтepиaл, нe yчтённый aвтopoм, пo мepe вoзмoжнocти был включён в cлoвapь в видe дoпoлнeний, cдeлaнных пepeвoдчикoм, члeнoм-кoppecпoндeнтoм PAH O.H. Tpyбaчёвым

>>17896590
>On what basis
Here is an Old Russian translator. Type in steel and watch it yield "stal":
https://anythingtranslate.com/translators/russdun-translator/

We have already proven that dozens of other words and even grammatical concepts in Slavic have emerged in earlier Gothic.

>>17896596
>you're not fluent in Russian
>here's a post in Russian
This does not advance your argument whatsoever. Do you have evidence that it was imported by or during the reign of Peter the Great?

>>17896598
Which is irrelevant to the timing of when it entered the slavic language.

>>17896600
>you're not fluent in Russian
Not my problem. Maybe you should learn the language before you start making claims about it

>>17896601
You still don't have evidence, and we do have evidence that Gothic influence Slavic language as early as the 10th century AD. Your claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Maybe next time you'll bring some receipts.
>>17896605
The necessary sources demonstrating the similarity between Gothic and early Slavic have been made available above. Perhaps you should engage in learning Norse or a smattering of Gothic before you post irrational and anti-academic views.

>>17896608
>the similarity between Gothic and early Slavic
I've never disputed this. Do your sources mention the word "steel"? If not, then this whole argument is irrelevant

>>17896611
That's hardly relevant. We don't have PIE / IE writings, but we can infer transmission of common words via phonological morphology transmutations over several ancient millennia which have yielded no extant primary records. You are asking for a pre-18th century text, closer to early Russian so really pre-15th century, of a blacksmith using the word "stal". Nevertheless, I will search for your ridiculous request.

>>17896616
>That's hardly relevant
Your entire OP revolves around that

>>17896622
And the OP is correct. You're asking for a transmission of evidence from a source we would not expect to have. I'm surprised we were able to prove that "duma" has Gothic origins, but you're still pretending to be shocked that the Norse word for steel which is literally the same as the Gothic, the same as the German, would be different.

What's even crazier is that your own source refutes you: the Dutch word is morphologically dissimilar to the other parties, which means that the modern Slavic is closer to the ancient Gothic than the Germanic modern Dutch. You're arguing in bad faith.

>>17896628
>You're asking for a transmission of evidence from a source we would not expect to have
Yes, that's how it works. No evidence = no claim
>you're still pretending to be shocked that the Norse word for steel which is literally the same as the Gothic, the same as the German, would be different
I've never said that. You can't even quote me saying that. All I've said is, I repeat, that the Russian word for "steel" wasn't borrowed from the Norse a thousand years ago
>And the OP is correct
No, because OP claims that the Norse were an advanced society because they supposedly gave the word "steel" to the Russians. But they didn't, so the OP claim is wrong. I'm pretty sure you're not going to give any coherent reply to it and we've been going in circles long enough, so let someone else engage in your fraudulent argument

>>17896638
>No evidence = no claim
This isn't how linguistics works at all. Entire languages have been reconstructed, and later proven correct, on the basis of rational linkages. As we have proven, the Russian stal is more similar to the original Gothic than is the Dutch, which is also a Germani family member. This means that the period of separation must have come sooner. This is where you are fundamentally incorrect: languages are not like archaeology where you find the bone and prove the thing, it's more like math where you make deductions based on sets of rules, principles, and formulae. You are arguing in bad faith when you ask for something that you know is unlikely to exist at all. The claims in the OP are supported by scholarship in both linguistics and culture, and that's not to speak of material strata. You're asking for a letter which would have existed before the 1500s which uses the word "stal" in an explicit reference to steel, which would only come from a blacksmith or a factory. If I found the word in a general sense you would just claim that it's not explicit given the context, so you're asking for a contextually explicit source in a language that notoriously preserved very little even up until the modern era.

This is the definition of bad faith acting. I pity you.

Norse and even Scandinavian cultures were definitely more advanced than the fucking Nazis wanted the world to believe.

>>17897341
What are you talking about?

>>17897347
Wait nevermind I mixed it up

>>17896561
No? The implication is that they took the loanword to sound more modern. Like what Romanians did when they replaced many slavic words in their language with french terms.

>>17897733
>The implication is that they took the loanword to sound more modern
That theory is insane.

>>17896572
>an european king had a german wife once
big news

>>17896401 (OP)
>But if steel is so rare, then why did the Slavs import the word for steel from the Norse so early?
But we didn't? The word for steel is jeklo iml. Unless you're one of those drooling retards who thinks Russian equals Slavic.

>>17896574
crucibles were used in polish land since 1st century bc to 11th ad when they started getting replaced by furnaces, smelting technology comes from celts that lived all around central europe before germanics pushed them further west

>>17899078
>smelting technology comes from celts that lived all around central europe before germanics pushed them further west
You're right about this

>>17896401 (OP)
>>17896404
The Cimbrian War with Rome was fought because the steel foundries of Noricum were historically an important CELTIC center that had just recently started to switch sides to Rome.
The Cimbri of denmark were celtic due to being the tradertribe that Gerdr brought with her when marrying Freyr. same reason why the welsh refer to themselves as Cymru. Gerdr was from Isle of Man, but possibly also with background from Wales or Anglesey.
The Cimbrian war also coincides with the Jugurthine war, and was possibly the reason why Rome triggered the anger of the Cimbri.

>>17900134
Basically Mandalorians were based on the Cimmerian-Cimbri-Gaulish celts.

>>17896401 (OP)
>I grew up being told that steel wasn't common until after the "renaissance" or around the time of the industrial revolution
retard. steel making is ancient, mass producing steel of a specific quality is recent. ancient people could mix carbon into the iron to make steel, but it was difficult to produce the exact same type of steel on large scales

>>17896401 (OP)
>This word must have been imported into Slavic from early Norse
why? it could have been imported in the 19th century.
>But if steel is so rare, then why did the Slavs import the word for steel from the Norse so early?
there you go again, loaded question is loaded.
>We know from the Rus Chronicle and surrounding texts that after the 11th century Russia radically Slavicizes its culture.
then after Peter I. the culture gets germanicized.
you are making shit up and try to sell it by chanting "early early early" as if you had anything to base it on.

>>17896561
>word means 'firm'
>"had access to steel"
it did not mean steel.

>>17896583
>But they took the word "duma"
yes, and we took the word from them and changed its meaning to "bullshit" in the figurative sense. weirdly apt, considering your flailing here. russians took the word duma from goths, therefore they took the word stal from early norse? is this what passes for rational discourse in your family?