Thread 17898101

Did Caesar deserve to be assasinated?

>>17898101 (OP)
>deserve
Useless word. You get what you seize or what other force into you.

>>17898104
If he was good for Rome and its people, then he did not deserve it

>>17898101 (OP)
Probably not, but Marc Antony gave the all time best eulogy.

>>17898101 (OP)

Yes. He was a Pagay.

>>17898101 (OP)
no, the corrupt senate was desperately trying to maintain their control on the city
but the hand of fate would not have it and Augustus fulfilled his role

>>17898315
At that point half of the men in senate were Caesar's puppets and some of the conspirators were even his former underlings, including Decimus Brutus whom Caesar chose as his secondary heir in case Octavian dies.
Caesar just fucked up in misjudging other people's intentions.

No. He was perfectly justified in almost everything he did. Caesar's killers thought he wanted to become king, even though he publicly rejected a crown from Antony at the Lupercal. He wasn't a tyrant, and yet they portrayed him as one to justify killing him.

>>17899275
>Caesar's killers thought he wanted to become king, even though he publicly rejected a crown from Antony at the Lupercal.
He wanted to be king (tyrant) in all but title.

>>17899275
What if they staged it to see the crowd's reaction?

>>17899689
that's possible. He did also establish a cult of personality, as well a military regime revolving around his armed forces. Still, I don't think that's cause to kill him

>>17899275
>sits on a golden totally-not-throne in the middle of the senate chambers
>wears a totally-not-crown fancy hat that no one else is allowed to touch
>forces senate to name him dictator for life, which is totally different from being the king because, well uh, it just is ok
but he's not a king because he didn't style himself rex!
augustus learned from his uncle by ruling like a king but dressing himself as a traditional consul. julius was too obsessed with emulating alexander and let the hubris in

>>17898101 (OP)
"Lentulus Spinther was wrought
upon by the magnitude of his debts, and the hopes of having the
government of an army and provinces, and by the presents which he
expected from such princes as should receive the title of friends of the
Roman people, and boasted among his friends, that he would be a
second Sylla, to whom the supreme authority should return"
>>17898370
Decimus Brutus' father was put to death because of Pompey and he sides with Pompey anyway because of Rome being a republic. Takes a lot of dedication. Amazing Caesar put that much faith in any of this and being forewarned of his death over and over again.
>Caesar just fucked up in misjudging other people's intentions
Somehow I find it really hard to believe he could fuck something up that much.
>>17899275
Cicero, Brutus, etc were staunch on it remaining a republic unfortunately or fortunately, I'm not sure. Eventually the diadem was adopted though.

>>17898104
Master moralist detected >>17898104

>>17898101 (OP)
probably wasn't doing as he was told. started to believe the pr. same deal with alexander

>>17898101 (OP)
>OH NONONONO, YOU CANT'T JUST USE VIOLENCERINO
fucking pussy deserved it

>>17901354
Violence is never the answer.
>reads history book
OK, excepting like all of these examples.


I mean Ghandi, and MLK Jr. They somewhat achieved their goals without using much violence, so it's kinda possible.

>>17899275
I came here to say this

>>17899275
Wearing a crown isnt a requirement to become a tyrant. His actions were though.

>>17898370
Caesar fucked up by having mercy upon his enemies, Augustus got it right

>>17898101 (OP)
Technically yes but his assassins were borderline retarded after the fact and would have made inferior rulers

According to the laws of Rome, yes, he was a tyrant. But the laws of Rome needed reform. He was necessary to change Rome, and by even in killing him his assassins could not stop what he had started.

>>17898370
>>17901788
Caesar had been a target of Sulla's proscription in his youth, had to escape Rome to keep his life, and when he finally was able to return from miserable exile after being pardoned, he had pretty much lost his entire property already and received zero compensation for that.
I would not be surprised if Caesar was reluctant to just kill dissenters because it was almost done to him once and he thought it was a fucked up experience.

>>17898101 (OP)
No because he did nothing wrong

>>17898101 (OP)
Deserve is a strong word but I think the assasins badly fumbled their goal. Should have let him go east, chances are he would have died or been humiliated on the battle field, Rome hadn't figured out how to counter parthia properly yet. Killing him at his prime just made him a beloved figure

>>17898101 (OP)
Yes
>It was wrong to usurp the Republic
He should die for usurping the Republic

>He was right to usurp the Republic
He should die for not killing his opponents

There's a reason Augustus wasn't assassinated. He never bothered with reconcilliation. You fought against him you die.

>>17903287
>chances are he would have died or been humiliated on the battle field
With Caesar's military record they likely did not want to chance the fact that he would come home to yet another Triumph.

>violate and suspend the laws of the society you live in
>the people whose power you have usurped decide to deal with you outside the law
>"NOOO THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING TO ME!"
Maybe don't try to become a dictator for life then?

>>17903492
>>violate and suspend the laws of the society you live in
he wasn't the first to do it and many of his rivals were no less guilty of lawbreaking, just a lot worse at seizing/holding onto power. Cicero infamously executed Roman citizens without trial, and Pompey was basically doing the same warlord shit he wanted Caesar prosecuted for until the Senate turned to him to stop Caesar