Thread 17908181

wait.
Why did God have to kill himself to forgive humanity?

Jews had run out of chickens so he had to use the same process on himself.

Judaism has sacrifices, Jesus was the final sacrifice of the old covenant.

jew chicken ritual

>>17908181 (OP)
And who told you this happened? Some atheist claiming to be religious? And more importantly, why did you believe? Why did you allow this person to shove his meme into your mind? Now, use your brain. Do you really think God would allow his Son to pay for the sins of others? Does it sound like God to you?

>>17908181 (OP)
If god had to do it for a reason then it means he must be subject to external constraints. If he didn't have a reason for doing it then his actions are arbitrary. Christcucks cannot comprehend this logical dilemma so will resort to word games and BS.

>>17908181 (OP)
Jesus was apprehensive himself when it came to his demise.
The Agony in the Garden of Gethsemane.
God the Son was unwilling to die until he was convinced to by God the father.

>>17908260
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_substitution

>>17908260
Have fun burning.

>>17908181 (OP)
The crucifixion of Jesus is, I think, the central example of how Christianity is immensely powerful on an emotional/symbolic/archetypal level, but the most widely accepted metaphysics for justifying that emotional/symbolic/archetypal level is just plain stupid. It has to be by far one of the most frustrating of all religions.

Why is his crucifixion celebrated in Easter? Usually a sacrifice is done as an offering and to honor someone. What entity from these times and people is connected to Esther though?

>>17908362
Why would he be apprehensive if he knew he was god? Why the fuck would he want to be stuck on earth? How would that even work if one of the three gods in one god was stuck as a human forever? Literally none of it makes sense, particularly if you accept the trinity.

>>17908181 (OP)
>Why did God have to kill himself to forgive humanity?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvGs2wg4Tbg

>>17908276
>God cannot voluntarily place constraints on Himself
false

>>17908634
>42 minutes
Is there a tl;dw summary for the limited attention spanned among us

>>17908654
The point is more "why would he" and "this seems more like people twisting themselves in logical knots to explain why this man who they claim is god died"

>Why did God have to kill himself to forgive humanity?
He had to kill himself to save himself from what he was going to do to himself if he didn't let himself forgive himself. 2 billion people don't think this is fucking retarded.

>>17908708
>The point is more "why would he"
Why would he not? Your question reveals a lot of assumptions about how a divine figure would or should act.

>>17908726
Because they don't seem like the way a divine figure would act, but rather map on to the kind of logic humans would use to justify their cult in the face of the death of their supposedly divine leader.

>>17908734
>Because they don't seem like the way a divine figure would act,
According to....whom, exactly?

>>17908739
An omnipotent figure doesn't need to come up with weird elaborate death rituals to satisfy himself. It makes no sense unless you accept "he just did it for the lols" which is an answer satisfying only to coping christians.

>>17908744
>An omnipotent figure doesn't need to come up with weird elaborate death rituals to satisfy himself.
An omnipotent figure doesn't "need" to do anything at all, anon. Whatever God does is because He wants to.

>>17908734
There is no place in the bible where Christ doesn't act in an unsurprising way
If you didn't know the story you would not be able to anticipate what he would do next
What other figure in history has said "Love your enemies"?

>>17908752
So literally "he did it for the lols". This basically makes everything totally and utterly pointless and basically nihilistic in that you have a god who just does random things for totally arbitrary reasons as he doesn't actually need to do any of it, and could choose to do all of it in a much more efficient, less retarded manner considering he's literally omnipotent.
Again this is an argument only satisfying to christians who are coping with the fact that their theology makes no real logical sense.

>>17908758
>So literally "he did it for the lols".
No? He did it because it was pleasing to Him.
>This basically makes everything totally and utterly pointless
Lol no? The point is clear, the salvation of mankind, it's the opposite of pointless.
>and basically nihilistic in that you have a god who just does random things
No, not random things, everything God has a clear purpose. God is not some chaotic force.

>>17908754
>There is no place in the bible where Christ doesn't act in an unsurprising way
They're only unsurprising if you assume he is a limited being, they're nonsensical if you assume he's an omnipotent god. Even worse you have satans temptation, which makes literally zero sense if you believe Jesus is god since what could satan possibly tempt god with? Never mind by christian theology it should be impossible to tempt him at all as he's literally incapable of evil, meaning either god is either not actually infinity good as christians claim, or satan is some kind of giga retard who is dumber than a 100iq human.

>>17908767
>Even worse you have satans temptation, which makes literally zero sense if you believe Jesus is god since what could satan possibly tempt god with?
He didn't know who Jesus was, that's the plotwist.

>>17908765
>No? He did it because it was pleasing to Him.
That's what I said, its an arbitrary action done because god randomly decided to do it. The entire salvation narrative is pointless if you have a logically acting omnipotent god, so in your case you have a good that does totally arbitrary things that overcomplicate everything purely because it randomly "pleases" him.
We end up back in the problem of evil, where god could have made humans to have both free will and be incapable of sin, but didn't for absolutely no reason. So either god wanted evil to exist, or isn't omnipotent.

>>17908773
He clearly knew who Jesus was otherwise he wouldn't have targeted him. The entire point, supposedly, was that he was trying to stop the sacrifice that would save mankind..

>>17908774
>That's what I said, its an arbitrary action done
What is pleasing to God is not arbitrary.

Holy shit you're a retard.

Goodbye.

>>17908767
>satan is some kind of giga retard
youre starting to get it

>>17908776
>He clearly knew who Jesus was otherwise he wouldn't have targeted him.
No? That's why in every temptation he asks:
>If you ARE the son of God, do this...
>The entire point, supposedly, was that he was trying to stop the sacrifice that would save mankind..
No? Lol where did you even get this?

>>17908780
It is arbitrary, it's just god being bored and doing things because he's bored and feels like it. It doesn't serve any greater purpose.

>>17908782
He's supposed to literally be an angel, and thus significantly smarter than humans. Yet is written like a retarded human
Almost as if he's not real and was made up by retarded humans.

>>17908788
>It doesn't serve any greater purpose.
What would be the ultimate purpose, according to you?

>>17908787
That literally proves he knows he's the son of god, it was intended as a form of mocking, supposedly to test jesus' resolve. Not even the first time satan has supposedly challenged gods ability (though again stupid entirely if you take christian theology as a whole)

>>17908780
>What is pleasing to God is not arbitrary.

It is lol. If you don't think christianity is nonsensical bs. You haven't read the bible

>>17908782
>god creates the tempter who tempts himself with and pretends his scripted drama is amazing

who's the bigger retard

>>17908794
>it was intended as a form of mocking
Source?

>>17908791
I think that an omnipotent god inherently has issues with purpose in a paradoxical way, it's a major flaw of Christian theology in general. Which is if god is omnipotent, then everything becomes ultimately pointless, as no creation can have any purpose when god himself can already do everything perfectly without them. For example if you could magic a screw into a hole already screwed in perfectly, you wouldn't need to make a screw driver. It's the same concept except applied to literally everything. The only reason you would bother would be arbitrarily because you felt like it.

>>17908796
The bible I guess requires those reading it not to have autism.

>>17908789
Satan had full confirmation of the existence of God and still chose to rebel against Him
he is a spiritually hopeless and retarded

>>17908798
>I think that an omnipotent god inherently has issues with purpose
Not what I asked, I asked YOU, what would be the ultimate purpose of existence?
>The bible I guess
Chapter and verse?

>>17908805
>Satan had full confirmation of the existence of God and still chose to rebel against Him
Yes which is dumb and has a distinct sense that this was written by someone who didn't fully think out what they were writting before they wrote it. Or possibly didn't fully comprehend omnipotence and its implications (or possibly those writing it didn't perceive their god as omnipotent back then)

>>17908806
It's christians claiming that the concept of ultimate purpose exists, not me. They're the ones claiming without god you have only nihilism, I'm pointing out you have nihilism with god as well.

>>17908805
>>17908809
>god created the second most powerful being with a personality flaw

what a cohencidence

>>17908811
>It's christians claiming that the concept of ultimate purpose exists, not me.
So you don't think there's an ultimate purpose for existence?

What the FUCK are you getting mad at God for, then? If there is no ultimate purpose then what's wrong with God doing things "for the lulz" as you claim? According to you it's as good a reason as any.

>>17908834
>What the FUCK are you getting mad at God for, then?
Why can't christians perceive that "I find this incredulous" is not the same as "I'm mad at this"? I'm not mad at god, I just find christian theology absurd.

>>17908834
That is the ultimate question isn't it?
If there is no meaning to anything, then by what standard is the atheist getting angry at irrationality?
Is the universe supposed to be rational in all things as some sort of rule? I would think not if the atheist is correct

>>17908181 (OP)
To make goyim have feeling of guilt.

>>17908847
Not having an omnipotent personal being doesn't rule that out even remotely. You could have logic without that.

>>17908865
>You could have logic without that.
Why does logic matter?

>>17908898
It enforced itself. Same as you can not care about gravity but you're still going to splat on the floor if you just off a cliff.

>>17908918
>It enforced itself.
Lol no it doesn't, we enforce it.

>>17908925
Logic exists whether humans do or not, thats kind of its thing

>>17908931
>Logic exists whether humans do or not
Highly, HIGHLY, debatable.

>inb4 no its not because lel

>>17908937
You're mixing up our comprehension of it with logic itself. There are many many human independent systems that follow logic without humans.

>>17908942
>You're mixing up our comprehension of it with logic itself.
No, I'm very much talking about logic itself, anon.

>>17908943
Then you're wrong

>>17908614
SOMEONE ANSWER MY QUESTION PLEASE

>>17909074
>Why is his crucifixion celebrated in Easter?
Easter doesn't celebrate his crucifixion, it celebrates his resurrection.
>What entity from these times and people is connected to Esther though?
None?

>>17909127
k but why is it called Easter? Where does that word come from?

>>17908181 (OP)
Jesus died so God would prove to man that he can bring you back from death if you obey him. That you don't have to fear death or those who kill, for death is not the end of the righteous.

>>17908181 (OP)
>why
because christianity is based on judaism top kek
the jews had to transfer their sins to chickens
and then kill the chickens
xnity solved that by transferring all of humanities sins onto jeebus who was then killed for all sins instead of sacrificing all the chickens
>yes this is the way it is

>>17909284
In English comes from the old Germanic word Eostermonth, which is Spring, the time in which Easter takes place.

>>17909290
>Jesus died so God
Jesus is god? I feel like christians forget their own theology half the time.

>>17909581
>Jesus is god?
No.

>>17909582
heretic

>>17909592
>The father is greater than I.
Jesus

>>17908181 (OP)
Sin demands justice
The price of sin is death
Sacrifice historically was used to pay that price (scapegoat)
Christ stepped in as Lord and sacrificed Himself to end the death penalty for sin
But in order to be freed from death, you have to accept Christ into yourself through baptism and eucharist, as well as repenting of sin. Otherwise you have no protection from the consequences of sin.

Imagine believeing in this shit lmao

>>17909683
>you have to accept Christ into yourself through baptism and eucharist, as well as repenting of sin.
You have to obey God.

>>17909729
>imagine believing we live in a fallen world where people destroy themselves with sin
haha that would be crazy

>>17909760
And why should anyone worship the retard who made that shithole lol

>>17909739
>John 6:53-58
>Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
>Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
>For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
>He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
>As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
>This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

>>17909768
>all you need is faith

>all you need is follow the commandments

>all you need is love others

>all you need is to eat me

fucks sakes they can't get their internal logic right

>>17909760
There are two primordial Gods, one good and one evil. They are in constant conflict, and man has a role to play in this cosmic drama.

To me, this is more logical than an omnipotent omnibenevolent deity going "OOPS accidentally created a world where evil reigns." Christian thought cannot properly account for the Problem of Evil, especially since the god of the Hebrew Bible is clearly evil and demands stuff like the genocide of the Canaanites. Islam has a similar problem, along with Judaism obviously.

Avoid these rip-offs and go back to the original religion expounded by Zarathustra.

>>17909768
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.

John 12:47-48
“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Luke 6:47-49
As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”

>>17908181 (OP)
Jesus had to be totally good, even till violent execution, to show us how to conquer death. God came down to us on our level and gave humanity the sign of the promise just at was fortold in the scriptures of the jewish traditions and traditions prior to them.

By rising from the dead, Jesus conquers death and offers humanity a restored relationship with God - forgiveness, not because God wanted blood for blood’s sake, but because love meant taking on the cost personally.

>>17908181 (OP)
Because that wasn't God.

>>17910275
>but because love meant taking on the cost personally.
But he's god, he didn't have to do this at all.

>>17909290
>Jesus died so God would prove to man that he can bring you back from death if you obey him
Couldn't god have just willed them to believe that?

>>17908716
This is because they don't truly grasp what's going on. God foreknew he would sacrifice his Son, I think it was Pope Benedict XVI who said something like the Cross was known from the beginning.
God chose to create the world in this way, it isn't all comprehensible and maintains a lot of mystery, but it surely isn't some chaotic series of events where God is running around having to resort to drastic unforeseen measures in order to fix a problem he couldn't stop.

>>17911098
>in order to fix a problem

The "problem" was the fall, the existence of the spirit in the flesh, the existence of people that are of God. That fracturing of God into parts was "solved" by the Son, coming then ascending so that the people who are of God could identify collectively as His body and thereby be united to the will of the Father, restoring all of God into one, the fulfillment of the trinity.

>>17911105
You're going off the rails a bit when you say that creation involves a fracturing of God into parts. That is not true. Your picture and post are correct in that God used the Cross to unite humanity to himself.

>>17911112
>creation involves a fracturing of God into parts
But that is not what I said. I said it was due to the Fall, the creation of people who are of God, the reason that the Spirit is not already natively joined to the Father.

>>17908190
>Jesus was the final sacrifice of the old covenant.

Notably this is a completely new testament idea; in the OT the messiah was supposed to oversee sacrifices in the temple for all eternity>>17908190

>>17908752
So god is just some eldritch being that does incomprehesible stuff because it feels like it?

>>17908780
Is god a slave to its own tendecies and desires?

>>17911105
What caused the Fall in your scheme? Seems kind of heterodox to believe God needs human beings to rectify a situation he caused

>>17908181 (OP)
The issue of original sin was because God personally resented us over it, but because he instated a law/contract the defined the conditions and obligations we had to live under as a result of the sin. By sacrificing himself in mortal form, God permanently satisfied the conditions of the contract and thus created a means to become exempt from it. You could ask why didn't God use his omnipotence to simply annul the original contract, and I would guess that while he technically could, he was unwilling to as it would go against his nature as a being that stays true to his oaths, agreements, and laws. So rather than ripping up the contract, which would set a precedent of discarding any laws that become inconvenient, God simply followed the law to its final conclusion and gave a legal escape hatch for us.

>>17909874
Yes it's both and, not either or.
You partake in the eucharist as well as obey the will of the Father.

>>17911136
Honestly, I don't know if Christians have ever bothered to consider the wider implications of the doctrine of supercessionism.

>>17911443
No. Eating a piece of Styrofoam every week isn't going to win yoy any favors with God. God judges the heart and the works of your hands.

>>17911426
So let me get this straight. When God created Man, he intended to hold him to a contract of this form:
>If any one of you eats the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, from that point forward you and any of your descendants are bound to obey a few hundred laws to be enumerated later in one family of manuscripts of a scripture reflecting the Achaemenid Judean context, and certainly NOT the Samaritan family of recensions [though this shall only ever be known and recognized mostly by a minute, geographically concentrated fraction of your descendants until it's a moot point anyway]. The religious community that copies those manuscripts shall hold all law breakers [in their jurisdiction] to the respective penalty detailed therein, unless and until I, God, incarnate as a human being and am killed. After which, nobody has any valid authority to hold your descendants accountable to those laws as before, because thereafter the due penalty for each of them shall change to A) asking me for forgiveness every time you transgress a scriptural injunction, and B) having once been ritually immersed by initiates into a sect I shall establish around the time I die
Am I getting the contract right? Could you please correct any misunderstandings, and then tell me where and when this contract was laid out? Seems like the Jews really should be on the same page as the Christians if the dying Messiah proviso was mentioned in the contract between God and Man.

>>17911539
so we are just pretending the passages about the necessity of the eucharist and baptism in the bible are lies now?

>>17908181 (OP)
Thank you, Rabbi Yeshua. Your sacrifice was a generous offer.

>>17911636
Rigtheousness is all that matters..

>>17911878
this is your personal belief and not supported by the words of the bible

>>17912085
Imagine a righteous man who fears God and does good all his life, but he isnt baptized and does not eat the Eucharist. Now imagine a wicked man who sleeps with his neighbors wife, steals and hates the innocent, but he was baptized and eats the Eucharist every week.

Do you really think God is going to chose the baptized wicked man over the unbaptized rigtheous one?

The same way Paul argued that circumcision is of the heart and that a righteous man who is uncircumcised is worth more than a wicked man who is circumcized, baptism is also of the heart.

All that matters is that you fear God and do what is rigtheous.

>>17908752
>>17908758
I get that you consider God as some kind of writer crafting a story, like a writer is also omnipotent in the sense that he can decide whatever happens in his story, yet we don't blame writers for not just fixing every character's problems even though they could.

But heres the thing, we don't blame them because we know they are just making things up, so whatever happens to the characters ultimately doesn't matter By contrast, an omnipotent god would be controlling.real concious beings and thus could be hel.responsible for bad things they expedience and reasonably be expected to sef things right for them.

>>17908181 (OP)
The Bible says there can be no forgiveness without the shedding of blood. So apparently God designed a rule that people must shed blood. Like every other human sacrifice cult. Why did he make this rule? He didn't have to but he decided to. Pretty weird. It's almost as if it were made up.

>>17912132
both are in violation of the requirements of Christ; to live righteously, take up your cross daily, and follow him (as well as get baptized and take part in the eucharist)

You are trying to negotiate how many legs are required for the table to stand: the answer is all of them.

>>17912259
>and take part in the eucharist
Well that's nowhere in any of his commands. He just said to commemorate him when you break bread.

>>17908181 (OP)
Good question. The only good answer I've heard is from a bishop who called it an 'acrobatic act' that he has faith in only because of personal religious experience aligning with Christianity. It is, for all intents and purposes, a massively acrobatic act that feels like a gross overkill way of doing things.

>>17912259
The answer is that God will reward the unbaptized rigtheous man and condemn the wicked one.

>>17912191
The consequences of a writer not fixing all their characters' problems is that some words on a page make you feel sad.
When God doesn't do that, people die painfully in huge numbers.

>>17908754
>What other figure in history has said "Love your enemies"?
The Buddha.
The Tao Te Ching also discusses that.

>>17910292
Jewry for gentiles (christianity) becomes a little less nonsensical if you assume Yeshua isn’t Yahweh but subservient to it, the son to the father.

>>17914155
Yahusha rose from the dead
https://youtu.be/eJpr-LVo5tQ?si=UWK_mPOGcp0w4na3

>>17910276
I want to kiss her bare feet and run my fingers through her silky black hair.

>>17908754
>jew tells you to believe the inversion of reality

it's not surprising at all

>>17911136
He does. He is our High Priest forever and the Third Temple is His body, the Church, where we offer atonement for our sins through the Sacrament of Confession and Penance

>>17908181 (OP)
>Why did God have to
Who says He "had" to?

>>17908276
God doesn't "have" to do anything to begin with. "Have" simply doesn't apply to God. The premise of your argument is fundamentally flawed.

>>17914351
The Israeli Identity Crisis No One Talks About | Explained
https://youtu.be/bdwkLWNoj7s?si=4bsdUSJSEDMLYHma

>>17908744
>>17908758
Theologians over the past 2000 years already figured this out, all you gotta do is read their works for any answers to your questions.
But you won't

>>17912132
There are no righteous men

>>17908834
>let me torture my creation (whom I created for no reason) for no reason
That's the issue

>>17908181 (OP)
Did you witness him kill himself? Were you there? Jesus didn't even die on the cross. He more than likely faked his own death just to fulfill a stupid prophecy.

>>17914351
there is no sin

>>17914395
Yes there are. Nobody is perfectly rigtheous like God but there are degrees of righteousness that God is expecting from those who love him. Plenty of men were called rigtheous and even blameless in the Bible by God.

>>17914420
>For you come far short of being able to love my creation more than I love it.
2 Esdras 8:47

>>17909290
That's a good point.

>>17914373
So he did it for the lulz?

>>17908946
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

>>17914666
Satan trips

>>17909611
>I and the Father are one
Jesus

>>17909763
>why should we value evolution

>>17914682
Doesn't say equal.

>>17914557
He did it to show love on our terms. I could tell you love is strong af and you'd walk away having some vague idea of what I meant. Or I could show you that love defeats poverty, injustice, flogging, torture, execution and death. Now you have a much better idea of the kind of strength I'm talking about.

>>17914673
Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a tripping block to me."

Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

>>17914710
Infinity + 1 = infinity.

Theory time.

*They* probably read stories about the changing of mythological eras and they made it TOO real in their own heads, and perhaps took offense that when the Taurus age ended they thought that their Bull god had literally been killed!

So then they waited until they could kill the Aries that killed the Bull, and did it this way to spite their imaginary enemy that killed their supposed Bull and made people revere the dead lamb all tortured and bloodied up while nailed to a cross.

Just schizo things. Always taking things too far, especially their cruelty, when they need not to.

>>17910276
Amaterasu is really Venus, NOT the Sun. Its why her name does not share any with the actual Sun nor year (unlike Tsukuyomi with tsuki/month).
Her red colors are a reference to the dawn, and her hiding in the cave references when the planet disappears from the sky for a while throughout the year.

>>17914718
That makes no sense.

>>17915047
And yet its true.

>>17915308
Why are you adding Jesus plus God?

>>17908181 (OP)
atheist can't even formulate proper arguments

>>17915380
What argument is being made?

>>17915380
Why do you assume anyone who calls out the bullshit of a specific religion must be an Atheist? OP could be a Muslim or a Deist for all you know

>>17908754
>What other figure in history has said "Love your enemies"?
Buddha and Confucius

>>17908848
>To make goyim have feeling of guilt

ding ding ding

>>17908181 (OP)
Christ's death, the greatest act of love in the history of the universe, marks the dominion of God over death and sin. Later, his resurrection announces the liberation of creation from this bondage.

In simpler terms: his death gets the keys, and his resurrection opens the locks. it's a bait and switch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christus_Victor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFesQ9ybzAM

>>17908181 (OP)

Would pagan "gods" do that?

>>17916639
they wouldn't have to (because they're not gay)

>>17914380
>christian alludes to a solution that doesn't exist
>just trust the experts bro

lol every time

>>17914431
>keep being ashamed because you offended the jewgod even though he controls everything

judepchristian retardation

>>17916638
That's beautiful anon...

Poetic bullshit

>>17914439
Words... beautiful words...made by men.

God didn't say that, man did. Quit coping

>>17908181 (OP)
He didnt. God can do anything. God doesnt need to do anything or be anything if God does not want to. And to the arguement of whether Christ was God or a representative, makes little difference. The point Christ made to the problems at the time and into the future made the difference. As to how much was taken out of context or twisted to garner power for the ugly systems we see today? Well take a look around. I'm not a preacher, religiously devout, nor particularly cool with my existence or circumstances. I can see I did not really have opportunity to decide anything truly as I wished to. I can see most did not. It doesn't sit well with me, the flaws we all deal with, and the determinations that we should all have to sit with that and it be all our faults. Especially given that at the time of Babylon, we were supposed to be in pretty good shape overall. The whole premise given was that "nothing will be impossible for them" and then everything got divvied up and all hell broke loose everafter. Not exactly the best way to go about things. Couldve just flown down to guide. But nope, just primed everything for chaos and misery. They say it is wisdom to fear God. If God sought mercy from us for one another, what was that all about then? For all we know, this is all a shit test to see who will go along with just following orders until God tells everyone "btw you all failed to do what was right and confront me in my inconsistency". Which would make sense given God works in mysterious ways as it is written. But who knows.

As a Jew, I just wanna know how Christians watched us sacrifice animals as a symbolic cherry on top of repentance, and got “God needs BLOOD AND DEATH to forgive you!” from it like what?

>>17908614
Easter is not what it's called or was ever called in Greek. Has nothing to do with Esther. In Greece for 2000 years it's been called Pascha. It's from the word passover because Jesus was considered the last sacrificial lamb.

>>17908181 (OP)
You eat the newborn calf to drink the mother's milk.

>>17909790
at that point just get rid of all the superstitious nonsense and embrace the dao

>>17917727
Just like Abraham.
Who would have wrote in cuneiform if he was from Ur.

>>17913767
I think at this point it has already been established that god doesn't give a flying fuck about people dying painfully in huge numbers.

>>17916448
...or maybe OP is God Himself testing this anon's faith!!!

>>17910276

You worship a demon.

>>17917933
you should help the poor or something instead of spending all your waking time shitposting here

>>17917933
>The word "demon" comes from the Latin "daemon," which is derived from the Greek "daimōn," meaning a spirit or divine power. Originally, it referred to a guiding spirit or lesser deity, but over time it became associated with malevolent supernatural beings in Christian contexts.

>>17917943

I don't. I spend 8 hours every weekday working. I work from 6:00 AM-2:00 PM. It's not "all of my waking time", you genuinely retarded faggot.

>>17917950
I don't give a shit about you work schedule to be honest. I'm just fed up with your uppity hypocritical attention seeking tripfag bullshit cluttering the board.

>>17916833

What?

>>17917960
kys

>>17917960
the salvation army needs you

>>17916833
Sacrifice for a false metaphysical concept?
Prometheus did it for fire.
Fire is real and keeps you alive.
Real sins are things that hurt you.
Most of your sins are related to things that hurt you but some are based on 2000 year old subjective morality.

>>17917991
Jesus died for religion.
Religion is the sin he died for.
That's what he gave the world.

>>17908181 (OP)
>forgive

Ur forgiven but here's judgement day

>>17908181 (OP)
it's symbolic

God sacrificed himself to himself to make himself reconsider about the punishment that himself put on us of sending us all to hell for no particular reason

Yahweh, god of love

>>17911136
There is such thing as a "New Testament idea" as opposed to an "Old Testament idea". Christ is the common thread throughout all of scripture, and any failure you have to recognize that is not a continuity error within the Bible.

>>17908181 (OP)
He didn't have to forgive anybody, but nonetheless, God's Son is the only sacrifice perfect enough to pay for the immense sins man has committed. In the old days God allowed man to be forgiven through obedience. It since became impossible for man to achieve this, and so now we reconcile with God through faith alone, in the knowledge that Jesus is the Son of God, and that the God we sinned against payed for our sins against Himself. God wants to keep his people desperately enough to do this, and has vowed that His holy name shall be renowned forever as a result.

>>17908181 (OP)
He didn't. He had to die in order to sneak into hell and stage a prison break in the most dramatic way possible. You should've been there. It was awesome. He also may or may not have done it that way by necessity on account of not being strictly omnipotent.

>>17918691
>God's Son
who is also himself

>God is omnipotent
>Literally can do everything
>Chooses to kill himself

>>17909763
>Christ has to sneak into the Hell that He created
Why? That seems kinda silly even as a metaphor.

>>17919793
Obviously he didn't create it

>>17919832
John chapter 1 seems to disagree with you. Unless you don't think Jesus is the Word?

>>17919835
Considering verses like:

"The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, himself God, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known." (John 1:17-18)

"No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man." (John 3:13)

"All who came before me are thieves and bandits, but the sheep did not listen to them.I am the gate. Whoever enters by me will be saved and will come in and go out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly." (John 10:8-10)

And how Jesus repeatedly refers to the Jewish law as the "your law" or "the law of Moses," distancing it from God, and how he says some of the Jews' father is the devil (and, more strangely, it has been argued and some early Christians believed that it should actually be translated as their father is "the father of the devil" https://brill.com/view/journals/vc/74/5/article-p540_5.xml?language=en#d111559720e576 )

And how John has seemingly been rearranged and had two separate endings tacked onto it https://isthatinthebible.wordpress.com/2015/08/17/is-john-out-of-order-the-strange-geography-and-chronology-of-the-fourth-gospel/

I think there's room to suspect that the original Gospel of John was of a more Gnostic or Marcionite character and was subsequently edited into its present form.

>>17918619
of what?

>>17919873
"Do not love the world or the things in the world. The love of the Father is not in those who love the world, for all that is in the world—the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, the pride in riches—comes not from the Father but from the world. And the world and its desire are passing away, but those who do the will of God abide forever." (1 John 2:15-17)

>All that is in the world comes not from the Father but from the world

Really makes you think.

Also:

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (1 John 1:8-10)

VS.

"Those who have been born of God do not sin because God’s seed abides in them; they cannot sin because they have been born of God. The children of God and the children of the devil are revealed in this way: all who do not do what is right are not from God, nor are those who do not love a brother or sister." (1 John 3:9-10)

"We know that those who are born of God do not sin, but the one who was born of God protects them, and the evil one does not touch them. We know that we are God’s children and that the whole world lies under the power of the evil one." (1 John 5:18-19)

???

Maybe not strictly contradictory since you can "have sin" from before being born of God, but at a glance the first quote would seem to imply an ongoing need to confess sins, which seems contrary to the later quotes implying that sinning should just stop once you've been born of God.

>>17908181 (OP)
to understand the crucifixtion, one must understand judiasm. modern christians, especially burger protestant/derivatives thereof, are devoid mostly of judiasm or otherwise blinded by "teh jews" into thinking secular judiasm is a good representation of jewish faith. Jesus broke the covenant and the "old way". jesus, a rabbi, had a following of (jews) and and preached to them that he was rebuilding the temple through virtue. his crucifixtion is an affirment to the jewish faith, a kapparot. early mans sin, Adams, which had transfered unto all of his sons, "the tribes" was ever amongst them. Jesus, by his execution, was absolving man before g-d. this was a culturally acceptble and paletable interpretation of his death and thus, divineness. but you are fucking stupid, dont understand judiasm or abrahamism, and follow the "modern" (post 400 ad) interpretations of christianity and thus project it onto us with your shitpost about jesus.

im not debating if Jesus is the son of god, im just telling you that you dont even know enough about either christianity or judiasm to even have an opinion either way

.>>17911105
you are retarded

>>17914431
ok, we get it, your a moral relativist. but there are "sins" which make you incompatible with society. the "law" makes sense, when you consider making an orderly longterm society. we get that stealing and adultery and perhaps murder are things which you dont care about, but generally, humans are kind soles whom like to be polite and gentle and have nuclear home lives. stealing, adultry, coveting they neighbors house etc are things that lead to distrust amoung people and dont build functioning societies. sure, maybe you taking hrt and trooning out isnt a "sin" but it sure as hell is innatural and in opposition to what i say 85% of the humans on earth deem acceptible

>>17919873
>>17920813
When you begin to notice how much dissonance there is not only between the New Testament books and letters but often, especially with regard to the letters, within them, it really starts to feel like the canon was formed through a process where one group was grabbing up their opponents' texts and redacting and adding to them *just enough* to passably support their preferred doctrines while still keeping them recognizable. And why would they do that? Maybe so they could go ahead and accuse everyone else of having done exactly what they had done, and they could assert that their versions were the originals which everyone else had wickedly chopped up and modified to suit their own preferences.

>>17920837
woah, calm down friend.

>>17920837
I refuse to understand Judaism.