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Thread 17909013

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Anonymous No.17909013 >>17909052 >>17909161 >>17909271 >>17909363 >>17910082 >>17910486
In order to suggest a concept like free will, you have to insert the claim that there is something paranormal and out of the boundaries of the known physical realm that makes us different than all the other matter in the universe that are known to abide by the deterministic laws of casualty. And even if you were to locate another realm. That still doesn't solve the free will or determinism problem. You've just thrown the problem somewhere else. How do you know the laws in this hypothetical Platonic realm wouldn't also be deterministic? Everything would still be causal. Everything would still be a tautology. All you did was expand it.
Anonymous No.17909052 >>17909188 >>17909271
>>17909013 (OP)
That's why the idea of free will only makes sense on religious grounds.
Anonymous No.17909161
>>17909013 (OP)
>all the other matter in the universe that are known to abide by the deterministic laws of casualty.
Oh shit I didnt know soienceโ„ข already solved the entirely of physics and described all first principles of matter, dang
Anonymous No.17909188
>>17909052
it makes the least sense on religious grounds lmao

a randomized simulation is more conducive to free will than some bearded man in the sky who preplanned and controls everything
Anonymous No.17909271
>>17909013 (OP)
>>17909052
It makes more sense than assuming you're a puppet of your own directionless and random neurological impulses
Anonymous No.17909363 >>17909392
>>17909013 (OP)
Determinism is a nonsensical concept

Here are three problems determinism utterly fails to address:

>1. Who is the Ultimate Determiner?
If everything is causal, then whence does the chain of causality begins? It must be an uncaused agent i.e. God but then God himself must possess free will to be uncaused, which defeats the point of determinism - if God is a cause of everything, then everything has a piece of God's Will aka free will.
>2. Who is the Illusion?
As a qualia, *I* feel unbound by physical laws. Thoughts, ideas, and emotions spark within my subjective consciousness without engaging on any detectable level with gravity, electromagnetism, quantum effects etc? A determinist would say that I'm deluded by the higher level of abstraction and all my thoughts can be reduced to electric impulses within the neurons. Yet, it leaves an open question - WHO is then fooled into believing that HE is a qualia? Only an entity with free will can be fooled at all, a deterministic computer would think in deterministic ways.
>3. Causal chain or causal chainlink or causal double dildo?
The stable, linear flow of time was already demonstrated to be false by Einstein. "Human perspective" is much too limited to make grand claims about the nature of everything, time itself is no more than our particular brains interpretation of outside reality. We can't sense time, we can't sense causality. Hume's ought argument points at a massive issue with determinism - a gun can fire and a bullet can fly yet the causality to link these two is not detectable. You can subdivide the actors of this causal drama - trigger causing the pin to move, pin hitting the primer etc etc yet all of these are just items in a causal link with no CAUSALITY itself to glue them together. You'd think that in deterministic universe the stuff of causality would be everywhere.
Anonymous No.17909392
>>17909363

>Consciousness is not identical to brain chemistry and neural states because it just isn't.
>*Two minutes later*
>Oh my heckin science. That man's serotonin levels are off? (Note: They can't actually prove this). We need to forcibly prescribe him some SSRIs!
Anonymous No.17910082
>>17909013 (OP)
>mind control
Anonymous No.17910486
>>17909013 (OP)
Denying free will ontologically leads to totalitarianism. This is not up for debate.
Anonymous No.17910666
How do people get themselves into this physicalist mess in the first place? What's the appeal?