Thread 17910924

>Japan and Korea cheaply copy Tang Dysnasty aesthetics to this very day.
>Westerners: OMG THEY ARE MASTERS OF AESTHETICS, HOW ARE THEY SO AESTHETIC? JAPANESE TRADITIONAL CULTURE IS THE MOST AESTHETIC OF ALL TIME
>Bring up the actual Tang Dynasty
>"Wtf I don't care about chink bug shit"
Why are Westerners like this? Tang era China is literally the peak of Asian civilization, aesthetics, arts and culture. Japan literally modelled it's entire architecture on Chang'an.

at some point jiaozi you just have to accept that the choice of le based chicoms was to utterly divorce themselves from the previous centuries of chang history as much as they could (within reason).

I know, I know, you're going to cope with some non-sequitur post about how mao sending tens of thousands of changs to die in northern korea was a homage to general ping pong's campaign to subdue the northwestern barbarians, but we both know that was never the case

Japan and Korea aren't an actual competitor to the West

So they pretend to befriend them while jewing the shit out of the dumb vassals

Their racial hostility is more obvious when you can't be forced into serving jews

>>17910942
tfr lower than japan says what now

>>17910924 (OP)
Because Japan and Korea live off of exporting their culture to the west whereas China has bigger ambitions

>>17910949
Annexing Taiwan I guess isn't one of them is it

>>17910924 (OP)
>Westerners: OMG THEY ARE MASTERS OF AESTHETICS, HOW ARE THEY SO AESTHETIC? JAPANESE TRADITIONAL CULTURE IS THE MOST AESTHETIC OF ALL TIME
People who don't know shit about shit talk shit.
Is this your first day on Earth?

You haven't heard any dumb takes from moms who know better than the doctor?
Pub goers who are better at coaching than people who can ask 6 figures monthly to do it for a sports enterprise?
Random pajeets who understand the development of human languages better than the most devoted of linguists?
Et cetera, et cetera.

Heck, as fun as Tang is, plenty of Japanese stuff is equally derived from later dynasties as well as developed on the island.
Folding paper fans were invented in Heian Japan and spread out of there. Sliding doors are a Kamakura development. The lantern screens so heavily used to decorate the streets in The Longest Day in Chang'An are also an indigenous thing from the Edo period.
Minimalist art, zen gardens, tea parties are all Song-Yuan imports.
Big paper lanterns, porcelain production and designs, woodblock printing are a Ming-Qing import.

Cultures in close contact exchange shit. It's no more weird than medieval Hungary building Gothic cathedrals (which originate in medieval France) and Napoleonic French cav in turn wearing Hungarian hussar uniforms.

>>17910924 (OP)

The Tang dynasty was Christian, btw.

I was genuinely sad when i found out that most cool "Japanese" mythological creatures like the nine-tailed fox and the baku are actually chinese in origin

>>17910924 (OP)
Serious answer: because Japan that everyone likes is not the Tang influenced early Japan (Nara-Heian period) but the latter medieval to early modern Japan (Muromachi-Edo period)
Pic related. Nobody see this Tang influenced Japanese aesthetic and goes "damn I love Japan", but everyone do when they see everyday Japanese Kimono

You rejected the westerners desire to sperg out over how cool oriental shit looks by becoming communist and alienating the west after the century of humiliation. If they just acted like south Korea/Japan and gritted their teeth while fleecing us with cheap cultural trinkets and ancient chinese secrets we woulda bought into it whole hog. There was a chance to do so after detente but they rejected American global hegemonic arrogance and that's the way the cookie crumbles. It's not fair, but life isn't fair. So millions of westerners are going to go apeshit over [architecture: Japan] and roll their eyes when they see [architecture: China] because all they can think of is "900 million dead in famine yellow river flood general ching revolt against pooyan dynasty build big canal big wall rice farm mao 80 million iphone factory." Get a better image team or something. You think Americans like being associated with cowboy john wayne fat people mcdonalds Iraq? You can't ask people to pretty please respect your country more you have to make them like you first.

>>17911499
Are you going to pretend Japanese and Chinese architecture are the same?

>>17910942
>Japan and Korea aren't an actual competitor to the West
This is the real reason. If you go back to look at stuff from the 1930s-40s when the West was scared of Japan and not China, you see tons of pro-China anti-Japan stuff. Hell, you can find that stuff in the 19870s-0s too during the scare of Japan finding an "economic victory" condition.

Because most of the underage children on this board only care about European history.

>>17910924 (OP)
Don't know about the Koreans as much but the japanese streamlined and simplified most of the tang's more garish elements.
There's a parallel in the shift from extravagant Victorian design with it predilection for chinese design to the Aesthetic and later Arts And Crafts movements favoring japaense style.

>>17910924 (OP)
Chang, its a two way street. See >>17912418

>>17911777
>SAAAAAR Eurabians are oppressing me ohiocentrism!
cornball goofy ahh still saying eurocentrism exists in the big 25

>>17910924 (OP)
You need to remember that Chinas people, history, and culture is literally an amalgamation of various non-chinese ethnic groups that have conquered and reshaped China and its customs and culture over its entire existence. You'd be hard pressed to say what is uniquely 'Han Chinese' as many of the Han Dynasties rulers were only part Han; let alone how the entire country was influenced by all the different cultures that came before it and after wards. In fact, the last ever Dynasty to rule China, the Qing, were not even Chinese, they were Manchus.

So stop trying to peddle as yours what was not even yours to begin with.

>>17912467
By your own admission Chinese is an amalgamation. Manchus are a Chinese sub-group that's part of the amalgamation.

>>17912507
Manchus were never ethnic Chinese. Just like the Mongols and MANY others who conquered, colonized and shaped China's culture, weren't ethnic Chinese. Do you believe that Mongols are a sub-group of China thus all Mongolian culture and history is Chinese now? I mean, they did rule over China and bred with the general Chinese population and influenced your peoples culture.

Is China going to claim Genghis Khan is Chinese? Oh wait, yes, this revisionism is exactly what China does.

I get you like to pray off ignorance of the general population, but do know there exists people who know that most of 'chinese culture' isn't even from the Han Chinese. So stop peddling things that aren't yours as yours, chang.

>>17912962
The difference between mongols and the manchus is that Manchu itself was a mix of Jurchen and Han traitors who were already serving the Ming forming a new class. Mongols are straight up outsiders larping.

>>17912504

Why?

>>17912467
cherry picking jew glownigger lol

>>17913150
>Han traitors who were already serving the Ming forming a new class.
>Mongols are straight up outsiders larping.
Yep, here comes the ccp revisionism...

>>17913183
I mean, what do consider the system of raising into the banners then? It's Nikan (Han) Bannerman literally becoming Manchurian for their service despite being 100% Han, effectively making an ethnic distinction useless. If one was to claim a Nikan couldn't become Jurchen without marriage, then that would be correct.

China is an actual threat to westoid hegemony whereas south korea and japan are their dogs on a leash

>>17910924 (OP)
do you think there are japanese and korean sinoboos (fanboys of ancient chinese civilization like han dynasty) kind of like how there are romeaboos in anglo/germanic and slavic countries?

after all, rome is to western civilization as china is to eastern

>>17913211
NTA, but back when it initially started, the Eight Banners were Manchu only then they began including Han Chinese AND Mongolians into the banner system. Later on these Mongolians intermarried and mixed with the Manchus, just like the Han did. And many of these peoples eventually returned to Mongolia afterwards when the Manchus took control of Mongolia. So can Mongolians claim ownership of Manchu/Jurchen culture and history? Of course not. But the Han Chinese can?

I'm not trying to debate you nor insult you but you clearly have an understanding of history, and I use those word lightly, that falls in line with the CCP historical revisionist movement aimed at unifying all 60+ ethnic groups in China as one.

It is proven that Jurchen/Manchus are genetically different from Han Chinese. Full stop.
Their people, language, customs, foods, dress, armaments, etc., in other words, their culture and ethnicity, are unique to themselves and created by their own. They just happened to give their genetics and culture to you during their MULTIPLE conquests of China.

As was previously stated in the other comment, stop peddling things that aren't yours as yours.

>>17913268
If you think about it things like dragon ball, dynasty warriors, or even recent apothecary diaries anime are essentially Japanese sinoboo medias, seems there's still alot of respect for old Chinese culture and history but not for modern Chinese people

>>17913383
>Of course not. But the Han Chinese can?
Yes. This non-issue was already solved during the Qing, when a dichotomy between the Chinese heartland (Ming China + Manchuria) and the periphery (Tibet + Mongolia) was developed.
You're clearly ignorant about Chinese history, the numerous Manchu/Jurchen attempts to be absorbed into the Han Chinese civilization, and just how complete that process was.
At this point you might as well argue that Norman-descended Englishmen aren't English at all.

>>17913430
>Manchus conquered us because they wanted to be Chinese!
Yes, and Germany invaded France multiple times because they wanted to be French.

Enjoy being brainwashed by ccp revisionism.

>>17913467
>Germany invaded France multiple times because they wanted to be French.
Yes, that's literally what happened with the Merovingians when they invaded Gaul and then managed to completely wipe out their Germanic identity in favor of a Latin one.

>>17913394
>seems there's still alot of respect for old Chinese culture and history but not for modern Chinese people
Probably this. If you are visiting historic sites in Japan for example, they make it pretty clear that their history and culture was heavily influenced by China for a long time. Relations with modern China are a whole different thing.

>>17912467
>You need to remember that Chinas people, history, and culture is literally an amalgamation of various non-chinese ethnic groups
There is already plenty of Late Neolithic to iron age samples from Northern China that show continuity with Northern Han. Modern Northern Han instead of being more mixed with steppe/nomads have far more uniparental markers from the Yangtze than their ancestors. However it also shows that vast majority "Han" below the Huai River are larpers.

>>17913383
>It is proven that Jurchen/Manchus are genetically different from Han Chinese. Full stop.
There are no historical Jurchen/Manchu samples, from the onset they were mixed with Northern Chinese. Modern Manchus are indistinguisable from Northern Han, meaning that they are more Han genetically than Southern Chinese.

>They just happened to give their genetics and culture to you during their MULTIPLE conquests of China.
Other way around, Inner Mongolians and Manchus have extensive Northern Han ancestry because of bronze to imperial age migrations.

>>17913383
>NTA, but back when it initially started, the Eight Banners were Manchu
Read up on Liaodong transfrontiermen, even prior to the formation of the Later Jin there was already extensive Han immigration. 23mofang has done studies on Manchu clans, many pre conquest nobility had historical Chinese ancestors.

>>17910924 (OP)
Tang dynasty is a high point even in China. Chinese culture changed over the years, and finally by the 20th century, it was a communist that was hellbent on destroying the old cultures. 21st century China is just a continuation of destruction of older Chinese aesthetics infavor of modernism.

Japan somehow managed to keep older tradition along with newer.

>>17913394
>but not for modern Chinese people
Kusuriya is chock-full of references to modern Chinese culture.
The entire premise is that of an anime-ified Chinese historical harem shows. The names are translated into Mandarin (リンリー, シェンメイ, マオマオ) and the show introduces a ton of modern Mandarin lingo (like using 小- instead of -ちゃん).
There's no specific hostility to Chinese characters or modern Chinese culture in anything. It's just not quite as pervasive as the perfectly sanitized romantistic ideal of the past which includes both historical Japan and China.

>>17910924 (OP)
This isn't true. Japan put more work on the Tang stuffs they borrowed from and turned it into their own thing that China had no equivalent of.
And now modern Chinamen think the Japanese's innovations are what Tang culture had always looked like

>>17913845
>Japan somehow managed to keep older tradition along with newer.
Most of these "older traditions" were invented in the 19th century after the modernization.

>>17913904
>cultural revolution is fake bro

>>17913921
The Cultural revolution is just bunch of illiterate peasants youth destroying old tombs. Not the first time it happened in Chinese history.

>>17910924 (OP)
>Is ruled by Han supremacy (natives are being replaced)
>Has traditional culture (China destroyed much of theirs under Mao)
>Language is more closer to pure han than any other east asian language
Why doesn't Taiwan get more recognition?

>>17913530
>sauce: ccp historians
Changs will never stop lying.

>>17910924 (OP)
>why are Westerners like this?
modern geopolitics, /thread

>>17914200
>Changs will never stop lying.
Retard do you even know the difference beteen historians and geneticists? Original Chinese were never displaced nor did they actually displace many parts of Southern China that now identify as Han.

>>17914092
Taiwanese/Fujianese are far from being actual Han(Northern Chinese). Just because their language split between Old and Middle Chinese doesn't make it any purer considering the pre-Sinitic substratum.

>>17911015

THIS.

>>17912467
Manchus and Mongols were the only foreigners to rule China. The mongol yuan dynasty was cut short and the Ming massacred them to the brink of extinction. The Manchus were assimilated to the point their culture and language don't exist today. The taping rebels and later the Xinhai revolution massacred all the bannermen, which is why manchukuo was a failure, since there weren't even any real Manchus left. So far in history conquering China has proven fatal to your race's survival.

>>17910924 (OP)
Because Japan is a safe country while China is a shithole with human spaghetti folders for escalators

>>17914092
>>17914753
They are thief scumbag.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takao_Shrine

>>17911130
Waymo is a self driving car in San Francisco

>>17910924 (OP)
I lowkey want to live there

>>17917752
>vehicle doesn't reverse over the injured pedestrians to finish the job
yep, definitely not china