Thread 17912290

>He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secret of the Kingdom of God. But I use parables for everything I say to outsiders, so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled:

>When they see what I do,
>they will learn nothing.
>When they hear what I say,
>they will not understand.
>Otherwise, they will turn to me
>and be forgiven.

What did he mean by this?

>>17912290 (OP)
The filename is wrong Jesus did not have a BBC

>>17912290 (OP)
You wouldn't be trying to hard to race swap him from white to not white if it didn't matter, so obviously he was white and it does.

>>17912299
Jews are white? No, not Ashkenazi converts from Europe and their descendants, actual first century Jews?

>>17912290 (OP)
>What did he mean by this?
He is going to use parables and some will gain no insight upon hearing them, because their hearts are hardened and they are not members of the Elect. At least that's what I'd say if I was a Christian and advocate of Refomed Theology.

Only certain people can truly understand the Kingdom of God.

>>17912330
>first century Jews?
yes

>>17912290 (OP)
THAT LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE JESUS! NOBODY WANTS TO SUBVERT HIS IMAGE AND WORDS FOR THEIR OWN MEANS, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE! WHO CAME UP WITH THAT? THE BBC? GOOD OLE BBC, WHAT AN HONEST AND TRUTH SAYING SOURCE!

>>17912299
>You wouldn't be trying to hard to race swap him from white to not white if it didn't matter, so obviously he was white and it does.
Yehoshua was brown.

>>17912411
>>17912338

>>17912499
Oh those were images of Jesus? Based on his real appearance? Interesting. :^)

>>17912290 (OP)
He was quoting Isaiah 6. So far the most satisfying explanation of it I've come across is that in its original context in Isaiah it was intended to be ironic, and when Jesus said it here he also meant it ironically, with the idea that "turning and being forgiven" is something many of his listeners might not want, so he is graciously sparing them the trouble of outright rejecting his message while still allowing those who are interested to seek out a deeper understanding. Especially since he clarifies soon after, "For there is nothing hidden, except to be disclosed; nor is anything secret, except to come to light. If you have ears to hear, then hear!"
https://translation.bible/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/hollenbach-1983-lest-they-should-turn-and-be-forgiven-irony.pdf

"Jesus was being ironic" might seem like an excuse pulled out of nowhere to save Jesus from meaning something disagreeable, but Jesus does use very clear sarcasm elsewhere, like Mark 7:9, and at least the gospel of Mark is I think decently well known for having a fair amount of irony.

>>17912961
As to why Jesus can't just use his supernatural powers to magic his listeners into accepting the message, there's Paul's idea that the Jews were "hardened" deliberately by God as part of his 4D chess move plan to have the Jews' rejection of the gospel lead to it being accepted in large numbers by the
Gentiles instead. But then you get into difficult questions like "If God is able and willing to magic some people into being resistant to the gospel, why doesn't God just magic everyone into being receptive instead, Jews and Gentiles alike, no 4D chess needed? And yeah that's a tough one.

>>17912981
Elsewhere Paul attributes the stubbornness of the non-believers to them being blinded by "the god of this world" (usually understood to mean Satan) instead of God proper, which is less strange if interpreted dualistically, but still strange if we now have the same Paul attributing stubbornness and blindness to both God proper and Satan. Unless maybe it's implicitly one of those "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good" (Genesis 50:20) type situations.

>god desires everyone to be saved
>um achyually not really ehehe

truly a jew deity

>>17913002
An alternative justification for why some were allowed to not even want to "turn and be forgiven", if you're willing to go the Gnostic route, is to just say that those people weren't real people. They're the children of the devil, like Jesus says in John, not Jesus' sheep.

"I have told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name testify to me, but you do not believe because you do not belong to my sheep. My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me." (John 10:25-27)

>>17912338
lotta brown people in there. The levant was never white, and neither was jesus.

>>17913577
Well yeah, of course there were some brown/blacks around the middle east 2k years ago. They are from whom the people of God needed salvation. If it wasn't for non whites always seeking to destroy whites then there wouldn't have been a need for a savior because the people of God wouldn't have anything to be saved from.

>>17913585
But in reality it has been the whites who have been hellbent on exterminating black and brown people.

>>17914333
Well yes sometimes, but that is righteous and good because it is in the nature of non whites to destroy the people who are of God and their heavenly kingdom.

>>17912293
Fpbp