Thread 17914392

Were they retarded?

I actually can't comprehend anyone being dumb enough to believe in communism in any time period.

>>17914392 (OP)
We live in a freak timeline where they existed

>>17914392 (OP)
>I actually can't comprehend anyone being dumb enough to believe in communism in any time period
Rich people are bad and I'm tired of being called a communist for observing this undeniable fact.

>>17914392 (OP)
Bolshevism is feared by the West because it represents the might of Eurasian Slavdom

>>17914409
K thats cool but why are communists so gullible and retarded?

>>17914428
Explain what's "gullible" and "retarded" about them

>>17914453
Their belief in communism as an economic system or prophecy. Its pretty self explanatory unless you're mentally challenged and also believe communism is rational or logical or physically achievable.

Seriously, imagine being told if you just kill that rich dude over there you will become a happy millionaire with a mansion and never go hungry again and actually believing it.

>>17914409
Most western youth are on this level. Everybody is tired. Wait for the Pacific war, fle to EU, kick back and watch it all collapse

>>17914428
Because communism is a failed system, but that doesn't change the fact that rich people are bad. Thanks for not disagreeing with me on that part.

The reason why people believe in socialism/communism is the same reason why people believe in intelligent design. They have a difficulty in understanding roundabout (aka "spontaneous") formations of order. It's like a telelogical fallacy or something.

>>17914474
>flee to the EU
LMFAO, this is what I'm talking about. I can't wrap my head around being this retarded.

>>17914409
>fractional reserve banking is bad
Fixed for you.
Ban fractional reserve banking and 90% "of rich people bad" issues would evaporate. Because only wealth would remain that is deserved, positive wealth, wealth that has foundation in products people desire.
And wealth undeserved, toxic wealth made by fraud of money counterfeiting like your pic example would be eliminated.

>>17914510
The EU is socialist. Just ask the reactionaries.
All I know is that no one is gonna "serve" anymore out west. We're tired

>>17914474
EU is the last place to be

>>17914532
Maybe it is if you're a shutin fat chud that's not a Muslim, but that's not my situation. No one is gonna go to war in Seville and I'd rather be homeless there than wrapped up in a war I have nothing to do with.

>>17914392 (OP)
>A citizen in the Communist system lives oppressed by the constant pangs of his conscience, and that fear that he has transgressed. He is always fearful that he will have to demonstrate that he is not an enemy of socialism, just as in the Middle Ages a man constantly had to show his devotion to the Church.

>>17914522
If you're getting drafted in America you're getting drafted in the EU. You're better off shooting your draft officer than fleeing to Europe.

>>17914543
This. I have 3 passports so I really don't give a fuck what happens to america, you can bet I'm not sacrificing shit for this thankless country.

>>17914556
Nobody in Spain or germany in getting drafted to the Pacific. Britishers and australlers are. But they're not in EU. Brexit means brexit.
I got my options, dont worry. I'm not giving shit back though. These billionaires can send their children or whatever othdr minority to die in my stead

>>17914556 #
Nobody in Spain or germany in getting drafted to the Pacific. Britishers and australlers are. But they're not in EU. Brexit means brexit.
I got my options, dont worry. These billionaires can send their children or whatever other gullible minority to die in my stead

>>17914466
communism is not an economic system nor a prophecy. You don't know fucking shit about communism and yet here you are talking all this slop like a retarded faggot.

>>17914575
>the pacific
Good thing thats not going to be the theatre of any war unless its china in which case yes you will be drafted in Germany.

>>17914392 (OP)
I've lived under crapitalism all my life so any alternative sounds good

>>17914646
>i'm a loser and have no understanding of economic so communism sounds awesome.

I see its starting to make sense. Do you throw your baby out with the bath water as well?

>>17914577
Cool hen I'll go to ME. I got lots of options. You worry about how you're gonna sell a war to a disillusioned population of junkies that have been lied to about capitalism their whole lives.

>>17914392 (OP)
the big appeal of communism is all the have-nots get to take, steal & plunder from the haves
>also
there are always more have-nots than haves....

>>17914677
>heh.. the people don't steal like we do.. heh
good that you see the issue

>>17914677
Don't worry, we'll just label the have-nots "Whites" and relabel the haves as "Jews" and that will easily make you backwards retards support communism.

>>17914861
Wanting to replace elites doesn't make you a communist anon

>>17914865
I don't want to replace the elites. I don't want to abolish property because I like owning a home and knowing that ones work pays off instead of being taken by the state to be doled out. I don't want bigger government. I don't care if billionaires exist. I don't care how much money other people have in their bank accounts. What I WANT, is for these fucking richfags to pay into the system that will collapse if it is not maintained. They actively get rich off of society and take advantage of government subsidies that keep them out of the negative and allow them to write off losses. Just pay the fucking 10% like everyone else and then you can go back to your gay orgies or whatever richfags do with their soulless lives in private.

If a room full of republicans screeching "tax the rich" at Mike Flood isn't enough to shit all over your communist red herring, then I'm not sure what will.

>>17914883
Yes, but you can only do that with national ethnic solidarity. Diversity leads to higher inequality.

>>17914659
>i'm a loser and have no understanding of economic
Projecting much? You don't have to take it from me, there's plenty of people who think the same

>>17914910
>noooo don't blame the richfags in charge, blame the niggers and minorities with no financial power
Get a new line, richfag.

>>17914987
NTA, but he's not wrong. Nobody, rich or poor, is going to commit resources, time and effort to improving something that doesn't belong to their tribe or their own children. The lower classes have checked out for the same reason the higher classes have - the people who surround us are not like ourselves, so there's no good reason to bother with investment or maintenance or effort in our local communities. They're not ours. Why would we?

That's not even an issue of direct ownership, its simply that our monkey brains are hard-wired NOT to co-exist with people who are not like ourselves. We're not capable of it without it atomizing all upward mobility in our society, which is why even different denominations of the same religion, or different sub-groups of the same people, cannot co-exist in the same state. Same as its always been, my fren.

>>17914987
*sigh*
It's not that complicated. The Jews and rich people in charge use niggers and minorities as a tool to enrich themselves by taking from the white middle class.

>>17914991
>Nobody, rich or poor, is going to commit resources, time and effort to improving something that doesn't belong to their tribe or their own children.
I'll gladly pay into social service for Americans of other races. Go be a Russian troon somewhere else.
>>17914996
>The Jews....
Stopped reading. Pay your fair share like I do or get the fuck out of my country.

>>17915017
>my country
My ancestors have been here for 300 years anon, I'll stay right where I am. Yours is the mindset of pure materialism. You are the last man.

It's an ideology based on justice and equality. Of course people will have faith that Communism can work. And it has.

>>17915396
>Communism can work. And it has.
folks seriously need to check out project cybersyn. it was actually a net-positive till american feds and their national bourgeoise sabotaged it

with that said the ideal cybernetic planning would also introduce distributist principles like subsidiarity. take the cybercompill anons

>>17915017
>I'll gladly pay into social service for Americans of other races
There are no Americans of other races, just the WASPs and their descendents. Everyone else is here because our government and people like you thought it was okay to sell citizenship to people who don't belong, traitor.

>>17915590
Wrong

>>17914991
> Nobody, rich or poor, is going to commit resources, time and effort to improving something that doesn't belong to their tribe or their own children
That's mainly because the lifestyle in the West shows that not everyone gets a fair shake. There is no certainty that your hard work translates to a better quality of life.
Even if you make enough scratch to buy the american dream (which is dead), your future generations will likely ham it all up and get their house repossessed. I talked to a lot of Americans whose families fought for the civil war that were reduced to being welfare monkies living in apartments because a bank swindled them of their home.
I don't see myself contributing to a predatory system like this. It's too late to revert the clock or whatever either because a lot of jobs are now outsourced to foreign countries.
America put its greed over its citizens. It's gonna learn what happens when you bow to the capitalist class.

>>17915602
White literally means white and protestant. We include the Germans and Nordics because Protestant, we include the French because they cast off the Catholic yoke. We don't include the Italians, Irish and Spaniards and their associated diaspora because they're Catholic and its assumed that 'white' means the people with the balls to cast off monarchy and theocratic rule, not just 'people of light skin'.

So its still largely the WASPs. France and Germany can stay because we're very much alike, although they're still not really 'Americans', just alien peoples that we can tolerate.

>>17914466
>you will become a happy millionaire with a mansion
And this is supposed to be a part of the communist fantasy in your straw man's mind?

>>17915610
>white doesn't mean white

>>17915665
You know god damn well its not just a skin color. The Irish and Italians haven't counted since forever, and while there's never been a huge Spanish diaspora in America until the Mexicans, because Florida and the Western territories were so sparsely populated to begin with, they've never counted either. Not with the founding fathers and not with Americans.

If you knew anything about history on the history board you would know that a large part of the reason this is so is because Protestants and Catholics have been battling each other in Europe off and on since the Reformation, even going so far as to admit Muslim invaders into European countries in Eastern Europe to attack the other denomination, because the enemy at home is more urgent than the enemy abroad. It was Protestants fleeing Catholic persecution that started America, they didn't want Catholics here starting up old grudges, and didn't allow for Catholic parishes here until more than five whole decades had passed since the signing of the Declaration.

>>17915647
Forgive him anon. He's probably American.

>>17915686
The Irish and Italians were always counted as white.

>>17915798
They weren't. They had light skin, they weren't Americans or whites. Which you would know if you were actually an American and not some Chinese or Russian or thirdie shill here to break up the conversation. They were second-class 'citizens' at best, here to do the same trash jobs that the Mexicans are here to do today because no self-respecting person will do them. They were not here to be equals treated as though we have common cause. That's for browns and catholics, not Americans.

>>17915807
Then why were they given citizenship and never barred from immigrating?

>>17915812
Because they were here to be second class citizens here to do the trash jobs that we have Mexicans for today. Were you not listening to the post you replied to?

Every civilization has slaves, disposable labor, second class citizens, an undercaste, or some equivalent people, its required in order for the nation to have standards for its own citizens, because there will always be some work or conditions that are required but don't meet those standards, and somebody has to do it.

Next you'll be telling me you think the Mexicans are Americans when they're clearly fucking not. We gave some of them citizenship too, it doesn't mean they belong here or that they're people.

>>17915818
Importing immigrants en masse as scab labor doesn't mean that those ethnic groups can't be American. Mexicans can't be American because they're not white, not because they're being imported as scab labor. As for my family history, I am American. About half of my family was old-stock American, a bit more arrived before the civil war, and the rest arrived in the late 1800s. All of my family was Catholic up until my parents stopped being religious. Are you going to tell me I'm not American?

>>17915822
Mexicans can't be Americans because they're not settlers, they're immigrants. This is a nation of settlers that came to a barren land full of barbarian moon-worshipping savages, fought and bled to kill them all and claim this unspoilt land for themselves to build a nation up from scratch on. Immigrants are coming here to take advantage of the accomplishments of the people who built this place, they are not the people who built this place, and there's a huge difference.

That includes the Irish, who came here fleeing the Potato famine and Protestant persecution in the UK, the Italians, who largely came here fleeing mob violence and anarchy as a response to their perpetually unstable government, and the Mexicans, who flee here seeking better wages instead of improving their own shithole.

If you or your grandparents came here because you want something from us or hope to gain from America in some way, you're an invader, not an American, and you're taking opportunities and resources from the legitimate citizens and their descendants. Simple as.

>>17915828
>who built this place
Wrong. America didn't fully expand across the entire continent until the early 20th century.
>That includes the Irish, who came here fleeing the Potato famine and Protestant persecution in the UK, the Italians, who largely came here fleeing mob violence
You'd better not look up why the Puritans came here anon. Let's face it, everyone who has ever come to this fucking strip of land was an outcast in Europe. From the beginning all whites were given equality under the law. WASPs aren't even a real group anymore. They've fully intermarried and assimilated with all the other whites in this land, and I'm a living proof of it. Do I get half citizenship because half of my ancestors are old-stock Americans? Do I get none because they were Catholic?
>If you or your grandparents came here because you want something from us
Who is "us" here? There was NEVER a solid definition of the American ingroup outside of race until maybe the 1950s. The first congress gave any white person living here citizenship, and we didn't really restrict immigration until after the Civil War. The fact is that we just needed people to populate the country.

>>17915465
>so naive
Here some fun Soveit data for you.
In 1981 every kg of beef in USSR was sold at 80% loss in government stores
In 1985 beef was sold now at 400% (!) loss. (oil prices tanking and rise of relative cost of imported feed grain impact, also continuation of Soviet agriculture effeciency loss due to rural population dysgenics).
Soveits needeed no CyberSvin to unmask such ecomic losses and disparity between production cost and beef price. They did it with pencil and abacus already. But why didn't they rise retail price of beef 5 times? For market economy it is so normal act like that to balance supply and demand. But not under communism. Under communism price is POLITICAL question. Because dictatorship of the proletariat, because fuck peasants scum.
How do your CyberSvin was supposed to work and balance economy when Kremlin Elders would come to your Cybertron and yank it levers into 400% loss?

>>17914950
>plenty of losers
Yes we all know the world is full of losers who blame their shit lives on everything but themselves.

>>17915017
>I'll gladly pay into social service for Americans of other races
You can donate your money to the government if you'd like. They'd gladly accept it. You won't, you don't and you're a liar.

>>17915647
Yes, this is the communist fantasy. Every single communist is a temporarily embarrassed famous author, poet, or high ranking party member.

>>17916459
>Under communism price is POLITICAL question.
Under communism price is NOT A THING because communism is moneyless.
If you're going to use Marxist buzzwords like "dictatorship of the proletariat", then go all the way instead of being a retard that picks and chooses which ones to use in schizo rambles.
Seriously, how do you faggots still confuse socialism for communism in 1917 + 108.
>>17917854
>famous author, poet, or high ranking party member
None of which would be millionaires, by the way, so this doesn't even make sense.

>>17914466
>Seriously, imagine being told if you just kill that rich Jew over there you will become a happy millionaire with a mansion and never go hungry again and actually believing it.

>>17915602
White here meant Anglo and Protestant not some bogtrotter shitalian gangsters like your ancestors who rigged elections and became the progenitors of the Democrat party you fucking wigger faggot.

>>17918339
>None of which would be millionaires
All of them would demand respect, power and admiration though

>>17914392 (OP)
After wwii, Fascist parties were dead in the world’s eyes so all over the world they merely rebranded themselves as communists. Look at places like Ceausescu in Romania and you’ll see what I mean.

The old order stayed but under different branding

>>17918752
>famous poet
>power
Best post in this thread.

>>17918763
>fame
>not power
What a hilarious board this is.

>>17918779
>Secretary of State for the Colonies
Ah yes, the most obvious synonym for "poet".

>>17918828
The pen is mightier than the sword you fool.

>>17918841
They say the pen is mightier than the sword, but I say fuck the pen cuz you can die by the sword.

>>17918339
>Under communism price is NOT A THING because communism is moneyless.
Objectively wrong. Because USSR had prices.

> buzzwords like "dictatorship of the proletariat"
That is not buzzword, it Soveit reality shaping Soviet society. Uplifting proletariat at the expenese of it's natural class enemy that are peasants. Dictatorship and class warfare is what prevented Stalinist Gorbachev form rising beef prices by 500% because it meant rising peasants wages by 500% and that was unthinkable for country where proletariat won. Peasants are kulak scum born to serve proletariat.

>>17914392 (OP)
I mean, a capitalist Russia would have been crushed by the Nazis.

Say what you want, but Socialism gets things done. It's perfect for creating a hyper-militarized society with billions of tanks, planes, guns and soldiers.

They were retarded for clinging to it after 1945 though.

>>17919108
>Objectively wrong. Because USSR had prices.
Objectively mislead. Because USSR was socialist, not communist. Never did the communist party claim they had reached the stage of communism, which by definition is a stateless moneyless classless society.
>proletariat at the expenese of it's natural class enemy that are peasants
Why do you abuse Marxist buzzwords and not even figure out the basic premise behind them? The natural class enemy of the proletariat is the bourgeoisie.
>Peasants are kulak scum
Only a small fraction of peasants were considered kulaks. It's not possible for peasants to be kulaks by default or else every peasant would be a landowner, which is not how peasantry works.

>>17919787
>Objectively mislead. Because USSR was socialist, not communist. Never did the communist party claim they had reached the stage of communism, which by definition is a stateless moneyless classless society.
Exception vs reality.

>The natural class enemy of the proletariat is the bourgeoisie.
That feels good version.
But peasants in fact is natural class enemy of the proletariat. Peasants produces food, proletariat produces industrial good some (like ploughs) peasants use. In teh interest of peasant to sell his goods as at higher price as possible, in the interest of the proletariat is the same. Thus it makes interests of proletariat and peasants exactly opposite. They are natural enemies. Important note: Marxists dont believe in market price, they believe in price established by will of teh ruling class and state violence. Thus economic conflict of peasants and proletariat turns violent with genocide etc. see collectivization. Exactly like commie theory of class warfare predicted

>It's not possible for peasants to be kulaks by default or else every peasant would be a landowner, which is not how peasantry works.
>he thinks kulaks in soviet Russia were land owners.
Stop chugging commie falsification of history.

>>17916459
>Here some fun Soveit data for you.
chile's system was not the same as the soviet's. you can't just conflate every socialist with one another. experimentation and learning from past mistakes is a thing. liberalism wants people to never tinker and try anything new forever

>>17919538
>Socialism
No, planned economies and fascism get things done.

>>17920425
Anon talked about soviet proposed system.

>>17920479
project cybersyn was chilean, not soviet

>>17914392 (OP)
Jews.

>>17914910
>>17914991
>>17914996
>>17915590
You have more in common with a working class black man than you do with a white billionaire.

>>17920808
You say this over and over again but the reality is that I've met millionaires at least and no, I have more in common with white millionaires than I do with middle class blacks.

>>17920341
>Exception vs reality.
Does not apply to semantics which are abstract.
>But peasants in fact is natural class enemy of the proletariat.
Exception vs reality.
>Important note: Marxists dont believe in market price
They don't believe in prices at all, whether it's by decree of the market or the state.
>>he thinks kulaks in soviet Russia were land owners.
They objectively were. They were persecuted for owning tiny plots of land.
Even Solzhenitsyn will tell you this, who was in fact not a commie.

I guess I'm one of the few who likes the billionares more than the ugly poor people. Living in a mostly brown city will do that.

>>17921028
>Does not apply to semantics which are abstract.
Commies teaching that superstructure is based on basis and is a secondary.

>But peasants in fact is natural class enemy of the proletariat.
>Exception vs reality.
Yes exactly. At superficial glance peasants are allies of proletariat... but only temporalyl until bourgeoisie are defeated. After proletariat went on peasants with all might and put them into serfdom again.

>They don't believe in prices at all, whether it's by decree of the market or the state.
They called them prices so its prices. Though they put much different meaning into them, more of the counting unit.

>They objectively were. They were persecuted for owning tiny plots of land.
You are historically illiterate. First decree of the Bolsheviks: they canceled private land ownership altogether.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_on_Land
>Private ownership of land shall be abolished forever; land shall not be sold, purchased, leased, mortgaged, or otherwise alienated.
In actually implementation all land became property of state and supervised by local soviet committees. Who then redistributed plots to families about equal according to size of the family. Size of plot varied depending on the population density of the region.
Modern commies just blatantly lie trying to paint soviet kulaks as landlords (many such cases see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood)

>>17914392 (OP)
>to believe in communism
I'm commie so let me explain it to you. Communism is unobtainable goal set in infinity and socialism is never ending path to it.

>>17921274
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_on_Land
Also i should add commies try to paint its like Russian peasant were landless and all land belonged to landlords.
For other countries it may be true but not in Russian Empire.
75% of arable land already belonged to Russian peasants in 1914. Confiscation of the lands of the nobility, monasteries and Church transferred 25% of Russian land. Its solid chunk but in principle didn't changes much.
>rob the rich!
But there was not much to rob in the first place. Russian nobility started with 60% of land in 1861 and they were landlords then. But over time they partied and gambled their birthright, pawned land to banks and peasants bought them. Free market unironically solved land question in Russian Empire peaceful way.

Russian peasantry was the class most fucked by Bolsheviks revolution and following collectivization that took all peasants property.

>>17921274
>>17921288
Lots of words, little substance.
>Russian peasantry was the class most fucked by Bolsheviks revolution
You cannot be serious. This is a troll.

>>17920584
The Jewish richfags have to hang too.
>>17921151
Those billionaires are the reason your cities are full of browns you retarded faggot. They think it's more profitable to just replace your people with infinite brown scabs to fight over worthless over-printed notes while they gobble up all the beachfront property and natural resources.

>>17920341
>Marxists dont believe in market price, they believe in price established by will of teh ruling class and state violence
No, Marxists and Classical Economics believe that price is all the input of resources and labour into a product, that results in equilibrium price.
Supply-Demand setting equilibrium price is a total meme and makes no mathematical or really common sense, since it's only 2 abstract data points in the production and selling of a product.

>>17921363
>, Marxists and Classical Economics believe that price is all the input of resources and labour into a product,
Expectation and reality again
On paper so. But in reality soviet pricing was completely arbitrary. Here pic stats monetary payment for single work day in kholhozes 1950 (for context monthly average salary of worker was 720 rubles in 1950, average work year of peasant was 269 days).
Tajik Republic 11.69 rubles per day, 3144 per year
Ryazan Oblast 0.17 rubles per day, 45 per year (!!!)
Average industrial workers 8640 per year