Thread 17915115

What exactly was going through the Cambodians' heads when they invaded Vietnam in 1978?
Were they literally retarded?

>>17915115 (OP)
>murders everyone above 80 iq
>follow the chud polcel final boss
>die
Why would you expect anything else

>>17915115 (OP)
Didn't cambodia killed most of smart people at this point?

>>17915115 (OP)
>were they retarded?

>The previous doctors were killed or sent to the countryside to work as farmers during the Khmer Rouge and the library of the Medical Faculty in Phnom Penh was set on fire. The regime then employed child medics, who were just teenagers with no or very little training. They did not have any knowledge of Western medicine (which was forbidden since it was considered a capitalist invention), and they had to practice their own medical experiments and make progress by themselves. They did not have Western medicines (since Cambodia, according to the Khmer Rouge, had to be self-sufficient) and all medical experiments were systematically conducted without proper anesthetics.

Yes. Yes they were.

>>17915115 (OP)
Probably thought the Vietnam to be a pushover who got tired of fighting at that point.

>>17915115 (OP)
you are talking about the tinpot tyrant that slaughtered 1/3 of the whole cambodian population with hammers (bullets were too expensive) in the previous two to three years. Where having glasses meant a death sentence because you must read a lot to have glasses and therefore are smart and to be killed. Someone emperor Mao came to respect and like so much he was planning his own version of "year 0" slaughter in china. on top of the great leap backwards and cultural devolution he had already committed

Yes pol pot was retarded and likely unironic paranoid schizophrenic. He was also uncannily similar to another well known sadist and schizophrenic from history
>ivan the terrible

>>17915115 (OP)
they had some peculiar delusions
namely that they were bringing in the new era. many must die but we will succeed inevitably for it is the objective outcome of processes

>>17915115 (OP)
Huh? Thought it was the other way around. Basically Vietnam was tired of Cambodia’s insane shit and totally crushed them in short order and occupied them for 10 years.

>>17915122
That happened too. So what had happen was, polpot had raids of teens go fuck with vietnam, vietnam says hey man dont do that, polpot raided harder, vietnam gets fed up and border patrol counter raids them and kinda just keeps going. Polpotcels get btfo and are completely unable to mount a defense to the laziest of pushes. China, being on mao's retard shit at the time, invades vietnam to support pol and gets utterly btfo by rice farmers and leave. Cambodia falls to vietnam, horrors everyone knew about anyway get exposed to international community, sad faces and how could this have happened ensue, no one learns a thing and polpot dies of old age.

>>17915122
that came after the khmer rouge butchers invaded vietnam and started killing vietnamese border villagers. Only to then discover that fighting organized and armed resistance with an opposing army is much harder then just hammering random peasants

>>17915115 (OP)
They were convinced the Khmers were a masterrace destined to take back all their promised land and thus would easily crush the Viets thanks to their racial superiority

Didnt happen as planned

So yes they were insane and they still residualy think they're superior to all their neighbours despite being the poorest

>>17915122
My guy while the NVA was entering Saigon, the Khmer Rouge started stealing their islands in the southwest.

>>17915115 (OP)
you really have no idea how genuinely fucking madhouse cambodia was
listen to the bowden lecture

>>17915115 (OP)
Communism is generally not a very smart belief system in most ways, but Pol Pot's belief system was one of the particularly retarded strains of Communism (dwarfed possibly only by Posadism), and incidentally one which Mao Zedong had great respect and admiration for, because Mao was a bloodthirsty lunatic who thought up such a thing as the Cultural Revolution.
If Mao could have fully had his way, he would likely have wanted China to go down the path of Cambodia under the Khmer Rogue, meaning even more extensive bloodshed, barbarity, and destruction of culture and knowledge, ergo turbocharging the Cultural Revolution.

Being so aggressively self-destructive, it's not too surprising that this destruction would turn outwardly, so they began picking a fight with Vietnam. Vietnam were definitely weary after the war with the Americans, but they were also very seasoned after all that warfare with literally the world's strongest military power, and they had a lot of equipment.

While they were also Communists, they're a decidedly less retarded kind (one of the kinds which actually want to have industry and economy, and some degree of commodities), and they were not gonna tolerate the Khmer Rogue's bullshit for very long. The Khmer Rogue, by intent, wanted their own society to be really retarded and simple, which means that the state of Cambodia's military was in turn a fucking disaster, so what you're looking at is some of the most hardened veterans of the day, well armed, being deliberately provoked by the dumbest fucking yokels imaginable who had deliberately dumbed down their military and industry.

In the end, the Khmer Rogue's virulent retardation forced Vietnam to do the Cambodian people a massive favor by making them come over to kick Pot's ass.

>>17915116
>>17915117
This was part of it, people who weren't idiots, or who were suspected to not be idiots, were often murdered, or they had to pretend to be fucking idiots to not get murdered.
This infamously stretched towards people who wore glasses, so if you were stupid but wore glasses, you would likely be murdered, if you were smart and wore glasses, you might try to stop wearing your glasses

>>17915127
It was absolutely deranged and degenerate. The perversity of the Cambodian Genocide is difficult to summarize in one post.

>>17915117
>cambodia killed most of smart people at this point?
Yes. The guy who planned it all followed his peer-reviewed dissertation that he submitted to some Fr*nch university that he graduated from.

Here's a paper about that paper

https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/e6b732da-f09b-4ad4-8922-c8585584230a/content

>>17915115 (OP)
Was reading a part of a book about this. The Khmer Rouge was a deeply weird group of people. The leadership was a group of urban radicals (to the extent that Cambodia even had much in the way of towns and cities in the 60s) who had a schizo blend of ideas from Marxism and Maoism to anarchism to Cambodian nationalism and reconquering the Kampuchea Krom (by Krom... that's the Mekong Delta!). The strongest anti-Vietnamese sentiment before they came to power actually existed among the urban population (that is, their own social mileau), not the peasantry, and then when the Pol Pot regime came to power, they did the strange thing of marching the entire urban population (really) into the countryside to till the rice paddies and dig canals.

This was a huge disaster and a ton of people were killed or worked to death or murdered by peasants who hacked them to death with machetes because of rural peasant chimpout class hatred. A bunch of people starved to death. And while this was going on, there were bloody purges within the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot's faction emerged victorious, and they were the most strongly anti-Vietnamese faction as well, and considered Vietnam their principal enemy, and a lot of people who were purged were accused of being in cahoots with Vietnam. So this destroyed everybody but these intense anti-Vietnamese chauvinists. And so the theory here is that Pol Pot started shit with Vietnam because of some pre-existing beliefs about Vietnam, and that he must have also hoped to unite the population including the ex-urbanites who were driven out into the countryside.

At any rate, those people (or the survivors anyways) were too hostile to fight for the Khmer Rouge, and the peasantry saw their own quality of life decline below already very poor standards, and were mostly bummed out and apathetic, and so the Vietnamese army invaded and smashed them.

>>17915122
Well, there were some skirmishes starting in 1975 but that quieted down, then in 1977, Cambodia probably kicked it off by invading some disputed territories that had been left over from the time of Sihanouk's dealings with Vietnam in the 60s. Vietnam responded by sending several thousand troops into the border zones, and apparently really did violate proper Cambodian territory, and then in September the Cambodians retaliated, and then there was a major Vietnamese invasion in December followed up by a full-scale war at the end of 1978.

>>17915115 (OP)
religious zealots seldom have a realistic estimation of their abilities

>>17915130
Interesting paper. I can see them being like some nightmare zoomer cult that combines communism and fascism or extreme hatred. The fact that these people managed to take power in Cambodia is probably a historical fluke.

>invade impoverished Southeast Asian country
>fight literal rice farmers with tanks, jets, and helicopters
>lose
>retreat in disgrace after a decade of being trapped in a quagmire entirely of your own making
>to this day, your veterans are homeless schizos who cope by pretending that they totally didn’t lose
>be PAVN in Cambodia, 1989
>pic unrelated

it's kinda crazy how apparently a bombing campaign can't ever win a war but it can start a new religious death cult that persists for decades after the bombing stopped
i guess a lil bit of trauma goes a long way if you let it snowball

>>17915130
i only read the abstract but politics-as-religion seems like a logical step for communists. it's always demanded a certain level of zealotry and is generally doesn't tolerate any other concepts being placed higher than it

>>64107539
Nigger, he was beyond fucking retarded, and I'm 200% confident that you have never done farm work in your entire life, with low chances of any other labor either.

>>17915137
It may often be atheistic in the spiritual sense, rejecting beliefs in the supernatural, but it is ultimately a very dogmatic set of societal beliefs, yes.

>>64107539
>>64107609
I can see why you like him, because you could definitely never be mistaken for an intellectual by anyone, thus you would be safe from the wrath of the Khmer Rogue (on that point, at least).
Unless you wear glasses, then they wouldn't take any chances.

>>64107665
let us accept that they are deserving of that disputed territory
what drives them to ignore feasibility? i can hardly think of another invasion backfiring into total regime collapse in only a few months

>>17915120
Mao literally warned pol not to do shit. Really "your going about it the wrong way that's going to be way unnecessarily costly please learn from our mistakes " and pol blew him off and did it anyway.

Absolute peerless commitment to the bit.

>>17915125
That meme isn't really accurate, the west didn't want to be seen to support Vietnam so they mostly just decided to stay out of it and let it happen.

>>17915142
It's partially accurate, because at least China lost their fucking shit and went to war with Vietnam for crushing the Khmer Rogue and ending the Cambodian Genocide.

>>17915115 (OP)
Ideologically possessed Communists in a religious fervor after killing anyone smarter than simple Jack

So yes, they where regarded.
>>17915120
Communists gonna communist. Tinpot dictator, not really

>>17915115 (OP)
>Were they literally retarded?
retards were smarter. much, much smarter.

>start killing those who are browner and paler than you
>start killing those who believe in different things than you
>start killing anyone who might teach things different to your perception
>start killing those who say maybe the first three choices were badly calculated
>those guys wore glasses, so maybe kill everyone who wears glasses to be safe
>your population now averages 60IQ
Wow.

>>17915115 (OP)
>What exactly was going through the Cambodians' heads when they invaded Vietnam in 1978?

“If I obey Pol Pot for two more weeks(tm), maybe I won’t die” or something like that.

>>17915118

Don’t forget the time Pol Pot had an Andrew Jackson moment and blew up Cambodia’s central bank, completely devaluing its currency in the process.

>>17915122

Vietnam initially tried to maintain relations with them but then the Khmer Rouge attacked the border town of Ba Chúc and massacred over 3,000 people by beheading them (I’m not fucking kidding), only after that point did they put their foot down and send in the PAVN.

>totally crushed them in short order and occupied them for 10 years.

Not really. The PAVN crushed the Khmer Rouge in pitched battle, but then found themselves in a nightmare of their own making fighting what was left of the Khmer Rouge and various other insurgent groups in the jungles along the Thai border. After a decade, they finally gave up and withdrew and Cambodia’s old king, whom the Vietnamese had been instrumental in overthrowing, was back on his throne within three years (hmmmmm… where have we heard this before?).

>>17915124

The Khmer Rouge are basically what would happen if /pol/tards successfully took over an entire country. Arbitrary violence, state terrorism, and mismanagement on a colossal scale, followed by collapse once they piss off their neighbors enough.

>>17915129

I always like to say that the Khmer Rouge was one of the most frightening moments of the 20th Century, arguably in recorded history. Not because of their military prowess, they had none, but because they are the perfect condensed lesson on the consequences of mindless unthinking obedience when taken to their logical conclusion. First, moral opprobrium, then, societal annihilation.

>>17915115 (OP)
bullets, probably.

>>17915131
it doesnt help any that the cambodians are almost childlike retards, even the ones that came from money before pol pot ruined their whorehouse of a country.

>>17915128
>Pol Pot's belief system was one of the particularly retarded strains of Communism (dwarfed possibly only by Posadism),
Hello LIBERAL

>>17915147
>and massacred over 3,000 people by beheading them (I’m not fucking kidding)
Not only is that a gigantic waste of time and manpower, it seems entirely unneeded to send a message. Why the fuck did they have this seething hatred?

>>17915135
wtf I didn't know this, apparently vietnam lost more than it gained by invading cambodia lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian%E2%80%93Vietnamese_War
>When the Vietnamese leaders launched their invasion of Kampuchea to remove the Khmer Rouge government in 1978, they did not expect a negative reaction from the international community. However, the events that followed the invasion showed that they had severely miscalculated international sympathies toward their cause. Instead of backing Vietnam, most United Nations member countries, including their fellow communist states in Asia like China and North Korea, denounced the Vietnamese use of force against Kampuchea, and even moved to revive the battered Khmer Rouge organisation that had once governed the country with such brutality.[126]

>In 1979, Japan stepped up the pressure by suspending all economic aid to Vietnam, and warned Vietnamese leaders that economic aid would only resume when Vietnam amended its policies towards Kampuchea, the Sino-Soviet rivalry and the problem of the boat people.[129] Sweden, which was considered the staunchest supporter of Vietnam in the West, also considered reducing its commitments to the communist country as virtually every other country cancelled its aid.[127]

>Convince Vietnam you're their #1 fan and can be trusted to protect their interests
>Secretly make Mark Wahlberg and the Potman himself look like Ho Chi Minh
>Completely remorseless until the day you die
There was no greater group of whacky characters than Cambodia in the second half of the 20th century
norodomsihanouk.info RIP to a real one

>>17915152
>Sweden
Lmao

>The Indochinese revolutionary movements enjoyed widespread support in Swedish society, particularly among supporters of the Swedish Social Democratic Party. When the Khmer Rouge captured Phnom Penh and expelled its inhabitants, 15,000 Swedes greeted their victory by spontaneously celebrating in the center of Stockholm. Claes-Göran Bjernér, a cameraman for the Swedish state broadcaster Sveriges Television, described the jubilant mood among Swedish journalists saying, "at the time most of us considered the Red Khmers as a liberation army and Pol Pot as no less than a Robin Hood". One journalist for Expressen cried with joy, calling the fall of Phnom Penh the most beautiful thing he had ever seen.[36] Swedish author and journalist Per Olov Enquist defended the emptying of what he called "that whorehouse, Phnom Penh".

>Prime Minister Olof Palme issued a joint declaration with Fidel Castro congratulating the Khmer Rouge on their victory, and immediately extended diplomatic recognition to the new rulers of Cambodia. Parliamentarian Birgitta Dahl became the driving force in the Social Democratic government for providing foreign aid to Democratic Kampuchea, an offer which the Khmer Rouge would eventually decline. In 1976, she vigorously denied allegations of Khmer Rouge atrocities during a discussion on Swedish radio.

>We all know that much, well—probably most of what has been said and written about Cambodia is lies and speculation. It was absolutely necessary to evacuate Phnom Penh. It was a necessity to immediately get food production going and it would require enormous sacrifices of the population. But that is not our problem just now. The problem is that we don't actually have the knowledge—direct testimony—in order to dismiss all the lies that are spread by Cambodia's enemies.

>Her skepticism was shared by Gertrud Sigurdsen, the Minister for International Development Cooperation, who dismissed the allegations as "exaggerated horror stories"

>>17915147
>always like to say that the Khmer Rouge was one of the most frightening moments of the 20th Century, arguably in recorded history. Not because of their military prowess, they had none, but because they are the perfect condensed lesson on the consequences of mindless unthinking obedience when taken to their logical conclusion. First, moral opprobrium, then, societal annihilation.

The most frightening thing isn't that it happened, it's that, all things considered, these things should be happening more often but they're not. Somehow we're avoiding all that horror and we don't even know what we're doing right.
>just don't do gommunism, kids
It absolutely cannot be that simple. There are sick, sick people everywhere ready to inflict hell on the world that they hate even if, or especially if, it consumes them. Lots of ins in every system for them to exploit.

Reminds me of a quote from some Terry-Pratchett tier author I read in highschool.
>The world is constantly ending. Every day some greater evil is about to awaken and everything is about to be destroyed. And every day some heroic action or selfless sacrifice by unknown and soon-forgotten nobodies brings us back from the brink and buys us just one more day.
I'm paraphrasing. Might have actually been Terry-Pratchett, too, even though I don't like his writing.

>>17915147
What is it with Communists and money? Marx criticized the Paris Commune for having actual fiscal policy and not spending everything immediately and Lenin tried to destroy the Russian economy to eliminate use of money.

>>17915156
if they were good with money they wouldn't be communists, now would they?

>>17915156
A lot of commies think you can speedrun societal change, which is why the more successful socialist/communist states have people around to tardwrangle their more radical counterparts. Cambodia's what happens when the tards kill all their wranglers.

>>17915154
What the fuck is these people's problem?

>>17915152
>>17915154
>World supports genocide
Maybe Armageddon is needed.

>>17915126
What was the timeline of america leaving to that happening?

>>17915115 (OP)
Look at that fuckin face man. That face has nothing but lust for power.

>>17915150
Don't you dare call me a liberal you fucking nigger.

>>17915151
Because Pol Pot was a malevolent psychopath?

>>17915154
That sounds like the Swedish left, yes. Really, the international reaction towards Vietnam's invasion makes me think of how the west threw Rhodesia and South Africa under the bus, only Vietnam hadn't done anything wrong at all in this situation.

>>17915163
Go clean your glasses and cook your snails, lib

>>17915156
Perhaps read Marx. He makes it very clear what he thinks about money even as a concept. It is no surprise that movements borne from Marx are then deliberately hostile to money. The Bolsheviks in 1918 and the Communists of Kampuchea both were ideologically correct when they attempted to destroy money.

>>17915166
and to be clear here I mean they were both *entirely* orthodox Marxists w.r.t
monetary policy

>>17915164
>cook your snails
What's wrong with snails? Escargot is very, very good.

.t not a Fr*g

>>17915168
>.t not a Fr*g
A likely story

>>17915117
Full one third of their population, if memory serves

>>17915128
>Pol Pot's belief system was one of the particularly retarded strains of Communism
You haven't read enough Marx
He simply took Marx at his word, that's all

Remember, Marx unironically thinks that
1) the children yearn for the soil
2) machines don't actually make stuff more efficiently, the sum total of effort spent to invent the machine is the same as if people had just gone and did the work by hand
3) throughout history no real value is ever created, value is merely redistributed at the point of a gun

This is the result.

>>17915115 (OP)
The Khmer Rouge was the truest Communist regime in history

Everything else is diluted with capitalist / democratic compromises

>>17915160
it's not about supporting genocide, it's about opposing vietnam, which most SEA countries were afraid of by that point.
>Thailand, which shared an 800-kilometre (500 mile) border with Kampuchea and has historically feared Vietnam's expansionism, demanded that Vietnam immediately remove its troops from Kampuchea so that its people could elect a government free from foreign intervention. Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and Singapore showed their support for Thailand's position.[90] Furthermore, ASEAN viewed Vietnam's invasion and subsequent occupation of Kampuchea, which received strong Soviet support, as an intolerable threat to the region's security and stability.[97][98] That view was shared by China, which went as far as accusing Vietnam of forcing Kampuchea into an Indochinese federation to serve as an outpost of Soviet global hegemony. The United States, which never maintained any form of diplomatic ties with the Khmer Rouge's Democratic Kampuchea, showed strong support for the membership of their former enemy in the UN General Assembly, and echoed ASEAN's call for an immediate withdrawal of Vietnamese military forces from Kampuchea.[90]

>>17915169
Viets and Thais are famous for snail soup
Might be colonial influence, might not be
(It stinks to high heaven, the French were right to disguise it with bucketloads of garlic)

>>17915128
>Posadism
Is so retarded it loops back around to being based

>>17915172
>China strengthened its relations with ASEAN countries – particularly Thailand and Singapore – due to their fear of Vietnamese aggression. Singapore's Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew wrote in 2000: "The Western press wrote off the Chinese punitive action as a failure. I believe it changed the history of East Asia."[108] In contrast, Vietnam's decreasing prestige in the region led it to be more dependent on the Soviet Union, to which it leased a naval base at Cam Ranh Bay.[109] Former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger wrote that "China succeeded in exposing the limits of...[Soviet] strategic reach" and speculated that the desire to "compensate for their ineffectuality" contributed to the Soviets' decision to intervene in Afghanistan a year later.[110]

>>17915154
Palme förtjänades att bli skjuten.

>>17915147
>Pol Pot had an Andrew Jackson moment and blew up Cambodia’s central bank
Even a broken clock is based twice a day

>>17915171
>You haven't read enough Marx
Pol Pot didn't either
>Most of them, moreover, had only the vaguest notions of Marxist theory. Thiounn Mumm, Khieu Samphân and, a generation later, radical students like Suong Sikoeun and In Sopheap waded through Lenin’s Materialism and Empirio-Criticism and State and Revolution, Stalin’s Economic Problems of Socialism and other ponderous tomes, but they were the exceptions who proved the rule. Sâr confessed later that when he read ‘the big, thick works of Marx . . . I didn’t really understand them at all.’ Ping Sây, too, thought that ‘Marx was too deep for us’. Ieng Sary, as an old man, would still occasionally lapse into Marxist categories when speaking of his Khmer Rouge days, and colleagues recalled how proud he was to have been one of only two Cambodians who had studied at the PCF Cadre School. For the others, Marxism signified an ideal, not a comprehensive system of thought to be mastered and applied.
Page 63 of Pol Pot Anatomy of a Nightmare

>>17915156
The entirety of Communism is a child's understanding of finance dressed up in a lot of vague utopia hopes and dreams
I'm 100% serious
Marx even has a short debate with Adam Smith about it and concedes a couple of points, but then his logic train segues into
>but then the bourgeoisie oppress us BECAUSE THEY JUST DO MMKAY
and then he pretends never to answer the question ever again

People get enthralled by the utopian ideals and the oppression narrative, without stopping to consider how deeply the narrative is totally fucked if a critique of the world is written by someone who didn't understand the world anyway

>>17915155
It's Pratchett. I think either Death or Vetinari says it.

>>17915171
>He simply took Marx at his word, that's all
That's the thing, no other Communist states did that (that I can think of anyway), there was always an effort to 'interpret' Marx in these countries, because even if they were stupid enough to be Communist, they were generally not SO fucking retarded so as to adhere fully to his ideas.

>>17915115 (OP)
Why he looks like pic rel tho?

>>17915172
>>17915175
My parents grew up in the region during this time. Everyone was deathly afraid of the Domino Theory, which was logical if you draw a line from Moscow through Beijing to Vietnam and onward. Furthermore if you remember Rhodesia, Angola, etc
The mood was that if the Soviets suddenly started fighting with themselves instead of continuing the invasion, good. Gives us more time to arm.

A lot of PEACE XX aid packages from the US flowed in this way. That's why the region has shitloads of odds and sods of American kit, like M113s and Skyhawks and so on.

>>17915181
because
>I saw a nerd at Denny's today and I thought he had a nice set of hairless thighs so I approached him and asked him for his number. He said no, and that he thinks I'm a pervert and he wants me to fuck off. I decided to slap his ass so he grabbed me by the shirt and threatened to wrap his thighs around my neck and strangle me to death using his thighs. I told him I thought that sounded hot, but that in exchange, I would need a cure for the coronavirus. He asked me what the fuck I was talking about and I told him, "I want to cut the flesh off your thighs and eat it because I think it'll cure the coronavirus". He threatened to call the police if I wouldn't stop harassing him.

>I mentioned this to my amputee housemate (I cut off both his arms for taking the pornographic images off my bedroom walls) and he called me an asshole and he said, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes." Then he told me I gave off a lot of red flags so that's why the nerd disagreed to give me his thigh meat. I told him I don't have any red flags and I accused him of gaslighting and projecting.

>>17915128
>Posadism
>Posadism attempts to introduce elements of ufology into Marxist thought.[2][3] Arguing that only communism can allow the development of interplanetary travel, they concluded that visiting aliens from other planets must live in highly advanced communist societies and are bound to help Earth-based communists with bringing about the world revolution.[4][5]
Amazing
It's like a Tom Cruise movie played by Tim Curry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_U59u69tys

Polpot was a French agent
Scratch a cannibal find the Sorbonne

>>17915184
Posadism is fucking AMAZING. Posadas lost his fucking mind as he grew older and wrote the most absurd fucking schlock imaginable, it's one of the world's best unintentional shitposts.
It's so hilariously goddamn unhinged.

UPHOLD POSADISM/JOHNCLILLYISM
UNLIMITED GENOCIDE ON THE FIRST WORLD
UNLIMITED PSYCHEDELICS AND DOLPHIN ORGIES
OUR DAY IS COMING

>>17915115 (OP)
>What exactly was going through the Cambodians' heads when they invaded Vietnam in 1978?
Vietnamese bullets, apparently.

>>17915147
>and blew up Cambodia’s central bank
Wtf i love Pol Pot now

>>17915187
Calm down Jotaro...

>>17915115 (OP)
Cambodia is unjustly maligned i think. They managed to get rid of urbanites, academics and adulterers in one fell swoop, and nothing of value was lost. The day Appalachia takes up his ideas it will be all for the better.

Because the Vietnamese weren't true Maoists, they were revisionists.

>>17915142
every country on earth except the Warsaw Pact sanctioned Vietnam over the invasion of Cambodia either because the US said they were evil commies oppressing the freedom loving moderate rebel Khmer Rouge or because China said they were social imperialists destroy TRVE anti-revisionist communism
the idea that Vietnam's invasion of Cambodia was supported by the international community at large is pure revisionism because it's now completely indisputable that they were right

>>17915288
>and nothing of value was lost
and nothing of value was gained either

>>17915115 (OP)
Cambodia under Pol Pot began disappearing Vietnamese civilians living in villages on the border between the two countries.

Vietnam then began asking Cambodia about the whereabouts of their citizens and when Pol Pot was unable to produce them alive Vietnam started military operations against Cambodia.

>>17915115 (OP)
>we only have to kick in the door...

Leftists didn't have any problems with the Pol Pot regime when it was still standing, but the second it collapsed they were all suddenly denouncing it as "genocidal" and throwing them under the bus to make themselves look good.

>>17916400
You're describing revisionists and liberals

>>17915519
Hey I wouldn't have to worry about my Cambodian wife running off with Vietcong faggot and there wouldn't be any intellectuals telling to me to have less kids and urbanites living off my tax dollars.

>>17915115 (OP)
>There's people in Cambodia who idolize this guy
>there's modern commies in the west who idolizes this guy
How broken you have to be to believe this guy was right?

>>17915171
>Remember, Marx unironically thinks that
This is a garbled internet-meme version of stuff that Marx never claimed at all.

>>17915180
>That's the thing, no other Communist states did that (that I can think of anyway),
The Khmer Rouge called themselves communists, and there are obviously points of contact with that as utopian revolutionary movements that seek to collectivize land and property do, but they also targeted the entire urban population. That can't possibly be a form of Marxism. Karl Marx's whole theory of revolution was built on the idea of the urban, industrial working class.

It's often said it was a form of peasant utopianism.

>>17916718
He killed millions of Cambodians, why shouldn't i like him?

>>17915137
>>17915137
>politics-as-religion seems like a logical step for communists
that is the worst of it, communism as idea isn't bad especially if you try to adapt it and evolve using it as scientific method essentially but communism used as religion with all its dogma is deadly for everyone, even the user in long term

>>17915129
>they had to pretend to be fucking idiots to not get murdered.

sounds like Australia to be honest. I need to get out of this shithole.

Why is it called the Cambodian Genocide?
He wasn't trying to exterminste Cambodians anymore than Mao Chinese.

>>17915115 (OP)
Viet were holy based

>>17915179
>Marx even has a short debate with Adam Smith about it
Wow, that's crazy stuff. Can you link me to a text of this debate perhaps?

>>17915115 (OP)
>Were they literally retarded?

pretty much

>>17915118
>win civil war and slaughter population
>start working on agricultural utopia
>kick doctors out and send them to work on farms
>literally rename your leader saloth saar to "pol pot" like some "big brother" shit, and make up a fake biography along with it
>ally with gigachad chinese guy
>gigachad from china tells you that you know your space better but you shouldn't be retarded
>send people out to killing fields if they wear glasses
>replace doctors with child medics
>ban western medicine because of le capitalisme
>kill your economists because they project the inflation well
>btw the agricultural utopia isn't producing enough food and is starving
>how the fuck
>kill western communists who actually believed in your delusion
>actual 1984 phrase of "your life is of no profit and your death would be of no loss"
>start a war with your neighbour while having all these issues
This is beyond stupid. It's like they were trying to be like picrel, manifesting the most retarded ideas ever instead

>>17915118
>children have to run a hospital and develop surgery all by themselves
anime when?

>>17920229
There are so many opportunities for kino fiction by just adapting pol pot's cambodia
>tfw you literally rename your nation because of your belief that language and culture must die and there is only one ( ( kampuchean ) ) language

It was Kino, pure and simple

>>17916960
>that is the worst of it, communism as idea isn't bad especially if you try to adapt it and evolve using it as scientific method essentially but communism used as religion with all its dogma is deadly for everyone, even the user in long term
One thing that happens is they start trying to control people's thoughts. Once they start demanding people think a certain way, then watch out. This is the biggest problem with it. Communism actually becomes more ruthlessly repressive towards different ideas than it is to different classes. This seems strange but it's not so when you read about the history, and the reason is that this is because it's a way for the communists themselves to have power and to maintain control.

>>17915115 (OP)
How did he manage to build support on an anti-intellectual platform when he was an elite who went to school in France and whose name even is an abbreviated French term?

>>17915116
Oi, you can't say chud if you aren't a chud

>>17917556
"Genocide" is a meme term anyway: it is in most cases applied to what really is *attempted* genocide, which is obviously not the same thing as actually making a specific ethnicity disappear forever

>>17915156
>being enslaved
>to a piece of paper
any man who passively accepts this has something very wrong with him, money is anti-human

I was in a pub quiz, and a question in the history round was "Was there a year zero?" to which I answered yes, several calendars have year zeros, infamously the Khmer Rouge, and they didn't accept it because the Gregorian doesn't.
Cunts.

>>17920982
He is literally the biggest example of projection in history.

>>17920982
There's no contradiction.
He wanted his country to have only a small number of intellectuals of proven loyalty. Everyone else was supposed to be a farmer, a worker or a soldier, and highly educated people aren't particularly good at any of these jobs, at the very least not in the absence of advanced technology.
It's the exact same reason why in Biden's America libtards with a social science degree could get a fake job at a university or in DC, but conservatives with the exact same background couldn't.
The system can only absorb so many intellectuals, and in some countries you get straight up executed instead of merely marginalised for being able to think without having at the same time loyalty for the right individuals

>>17916490
Leftoid liberals loved Pol Pot unconditionally though.

>>17921466
>Refugees said Cambodians wearing eyeglasses were killed because the Khmer Rouge thought only intellectuals wore eyeglasses. They said that beautiful young women were forced to marry deformed Khmer Rouge veterans. They said there were no dogs left in the country because starving people had killed them all for food.

>>17921717
>tfw no state mandated Khmer Rouge gf

>>17920982
It's a bit more complicated and weird and murky. For one, they alienated their own peasant base. Secondly, a lot of rural Cambodians didn't even know who the leadership of the Khmer Rouge were. It was a highly secretive group that initially called itself "The Organization" that didn't disclose that it was a communist party until two years in, and Pol Pot was only one of the leaders. He purged his rivals in purges and ramped up anti-Vietnamese chauvinism after they took power, but he wasn't #1 at first.

There were also different Khmer Rouge commanders who led their own armies in different parts of the country, and they came to power by converging on the capital at the same time, and some of them were from peasant or small-town rebel backgrounds. They also divided the country up into different "zones" which were highly compartmentalized.

Pol Pot's own support and muscle came from the southwest for whatever reason. He had some alliance with the commanders there were who former "Issaraks." The French-educated intellectuals were apparently more anti-Vietnamese than old-style communists in the organization who operated in the east and got purged.

>>17920982
Also read the summary on Wikipedia about who was officially in charge. They put the King Sihanouk officially in charge because the rural peasants liked him, but he wasn't actually in charge, he was just sitting in his house. Then they removed Sihanouk and announced that the "Organization" was now communist, and Pol Pot was announced a prime minister, but nobody knew who he was, and they came up with a fictional biography for him as coming from a poor peasant family, and then they'd renounce communism and would say they were doing something REALLY different and special and mind-blowing while killing a bunch of people and saying "we're all brothers and sisters..." *bang*

There was never a personality cult around him because he kept his own image murky. He was highly introverted and used a lot of different pseudonyms throughout his life.

>>17918064
>>17915179
>Marx even has a short debate with Adam Smith about it
No he didn't because Adam Smith died some 30 years before Marx was even born

>>17922423
Hush, I wanted to hear what he would've pulled up

>>17922136
Elon Musk (South African Pol Pot?)

>>17922254
Was there anyone pro-Vietnamese at this time, or was Vietnam the Ukraine of SEA?

>>17922298
Honestly, this sounds interesting as hell. He's like a commie John Galt.

>>17915141
That wasn't Mao that was Zhou Enlai.

The dumbest thing about the Kampuchea experiment is how Cambodia permanently gimped its regional power relative to Thailand and Vietnam. Prior to Pol Pot, it was a junior member of a trio. Afterwards, it was a ruined husk not even close to the same level as its neighbors. Ideology aside, what was the point of THAT? Why would you intentionally make your country much, much weaker with respect to its regional adversaries?

>>17923194
There were pro-Vietnamese members (at least relatively speaking) of the Khmer Rouge and they were mercilessly eliminated by Pol Pot's troops. There were more of these people in the eastern zones, apparently. The Khmer Rouge came to power in 1975 and really escalated to mass killing of anyone Vietnamese, pro-Vietnamese, people suspected of being pro-Vietnamese, in 1978. This is from a book by Michael Vickery.

The east was the zone that had more of the "old" communists who had cooperated with the Vietnamese in the 1940s and 1950s. They didn't always get along with the Vietnamese, but were considered more "liberal" as well, more relaxed anyways. Different ideas. Probably more similar to the Vietnamese communists. They also wore fatigues and mixed uniforms rather than those black uniforms.

From what I've heard the aftermath of the genocide basically reshaped cambodian culture. What point is there to working hard or saving money or improving your life in any way if you're just going to get killed anyways

>>17923196
Yeah. He also sounds like Stalin in some ways, very paranoid. But he was apparently antisocial (doesn't go well with socialism, it turns out) and introverted. Then combine that with being very rigid and disastrously misapplying communist ideas, we may have autism here.

>>17923401
How did he avoid getting assassinated by his own officers? Though I do recall reading that at the time of his death, he was basically under a form of house arrest in which he was stuck in a remote area of jungle basically forever.

>>17923404
Similar reason why stalin, mao, and hoxha didn't get killed. To not only survive but actually rise up during the internal communist purges you basically needed to be one of the most cold blooded, paranoid, and charismatic people alive.

>>17915128
You can't even call what they did communism (inb4 all the "not true communism" memes). Basically every thing he did wasn't just not part of Marxist ideologically, it was the literal opposite.
>Anti-urban
>Anti-industrial
>Pro-peasant
>Fascist style race-based world view with Khmer as the "master race"
>Literally disavowed communism once it was no longer an easy way to get foreign aid (agree or disagree with Communism, you can't argue places like Cuba and Vietnam were only acting when they stayed communist despite losing the East Bloc's aid in the 90's).
>Killed all the members who were sent to actually learn what communism was in Russia
>Pol Pot was given a collection of the works of Marx and Lenin by Mao and never bothered to read it.
>Took over without any popular support and a secret leadership despite literally every other communist revolution being a populist uprising with extremely public leadership.
>Kept the King despite Marxism being anti-monarchist.
The list keeps going but you get the idea. The Khmer Rouge are more just another example of how any group of bandits around a cultic leader will proclaim itself an adherent to whatever international ideology they think will get them the most foreign money.

>>17915120
>ivan the terrible
i couldn't have expected your post to turn to shit this suddenly and this late. literally zero things they have in familiar lmao. do you only learn history from kraut's videos?

>>17915115 (OP)

yes and yes

>>17922747
Holy shit nigga history repeats
https://www.thestreet.com/technology/elon-musk-says-a-tesla-catgirl-robot-is-coming
>>17923401
He enjoyed making up identities, not letting anybody get beyond him. It's like autism + narcissism + paranoia. I wish we could get kino like him again
>>17923340
Zhou Enlai provided Deng the force of "do nothing, win", no wonder Mao tried to kill off his influence

>>17915128
Don't talk shit about Posadism. The three posadists left will be very upset.

>>17923401
He wasn't "autistic", he was just Asian.
Also later in his life he claimed he had been more naive than evil and didn't really have a full picture of what was going on in Kampuchea 1975-1978.
Which for all I know may be true

>>17923639

A lot of the shit they reads like it was ripped from the Turner Diaries. It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s no coincidence because the book was being written by William Pierce while the Khmer Rouge was in power.

>>17923639

A lot of the shit they did reads like it was ripped from the Turner Diaries. It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s no coincidence because the book was being written by William Pierce while the Khmer Rouge was in power.

>>17921697
where do you even come up with this shit?

>>17923639
>>17924979
A theory that Vickery advances is that it was peasant populism, which aimed for "crude leveling." Destroy all classes other than the peasants. This is a thing that has happened elsewhere but it's only in Cambodia where a pure peasant revolution took power. In Russia, there was the Tambov "green" rebellion, which was put down by the Bolsheviks. Also it could take anarchist forms. Anarchism in the early 20th century was more of a peasant movement, like in Spain. These outbursts of peasant chimpout rage could be really violent. It reminded me of the opening scene of 1900, the movie, where a group of Italian peasants butcher the foreman of their plantation at the end of World War II (shitty quality):
https://youtu.be/V8r67z4gmVE

I vaguely recall reading something about some Bolshevik hotheads burning their membership cards during the shift to the NEP, as they had radical leveling ideas, which was the reality during the War Communism period during the civil war. But for those people, universal scarcity and poverty constituted communism for them. That was not what Lenin and Bukharin believed.

Vickery also doesn't think the anti-Vietnamese attitude came from the peasants. It was more of a middle-class thing where such nationalist ideas had more influence. But what's odd about it is that these middle-class "old people" were the ones who were force-marched into the countryside by the Khmer Rouge. It may have been an attempt by Pol Pot to bring those people back onto his side, but it didn't work because these people had already been terrorized and killed in large numbers.

What happened in Cambodia wasn't the same everywhere either. Some zones were better than others. But one of the most violent periods was in the eastern zone when Pol Pot's central zone troops came in and carried out this mass purge.

>>17923639
>The Khmer Rouge are more just another example of how any group of bandits around a cultic leader will proclaim itself an adherent to whatever international ideology they think will get them the most foreign money.
Yeah I could see some eclectic far-left cult emerging that is basically like this. Basically middle-class people who hate their own class and have a hodgepodge of Maoist and radically nationalist ideas, who are really extreme (or present themselves as the most radical / extreme / authentic) but are also highly opportunistic in seeking out foreign money from their group.

>>17924892
>He wasn't "autistic", he was just Asian.
Is there really much of a difference

>>17915115 (OP)
>What exactly was going through the Cambodians' heads when they invaded Vietnam in 1978?
7.62x39mm

>>17924979
It's funny how desperately they're trying to revisionize Pol Pot's tenure

>>17915125
on that nazi germany grindset

>>17923639
>>17924979
>>17925136
>>17926866
pol pot was someone evola would be proud of

>>17926903
How so? Effortbait me if you can