Thread 17916355

Why do people say Joseph Smith made it up for money and power? He literally died for his beliefs. He also had numerous instances where, if he was just a shyster, he could have taken all the money people donated to the Church and just run off. It was the 19th Century, move to the next state and grow some facial hair and you're set. And he DIDN'T.
You can think he was dumb and deluded, but he clearly believed the shit he was saying.

>>17916355 (OP)
Jim Jones died for his beliefs when he could have taken the money and run away. Guess that means gay race communism is the way forward.

>>17916355 (OP)
this is a basic human psychological phenomenon. it goes something like this:
>person creates X for the lulz/money/attention
>X recieves praise
>person is happy his scheme works
the Skinner box takes place
>person "hmm if X really brings people this much joy, maybe it aint so bad"
>person adds more to the X lore

>>17916360
yes, Jim Jones was crazy, but clearly believed the shit he was peddling. But the story of the founding of Mormonism is regularly mocked as being "he made it up and tricked a bunch of idiots"

>>17916426
Joseph Smith had a physical prop that he claimed was the golden plates. Emma Smith handled it while it was covered up with cloth. Joseph would have had to know it wasn't real, meaning he was a conscious fraud. He could have been a pious fraud who believed God wanted him to deceive people, but a fraud nonetheless.

>>17916355 (OP)
He did it because he liked MONEY and POWER. Not just money. He also liked staying alive, and his best chances were keeping ownership of his tribe.

If he didn't care about power he could have grabbed his stacks and ran off at any point, but he enjoyed having his own tribe of loyal believers, not to mention an endless harem of "wives".

Not to mention, Joseph Smith had a strong group of powerful people that hated him, basically everyone that wasn't Mormon. Particularly other non-Mormon Christian denominations.

It's one of those situations, if he grabbed his money and ran, the other Christians would have massacred him even sooner than they did. With that many enemies, it's best he stays amongst friends (arguably what went wrong in the end, when him and his brother went back east without the loyal legions of followers).

>>17916426
Jim Jones actually *did NOT* believe the shit he was peddling. The preaching was a means to an end to spread communist values. He didn't even believe in god according to insiders (most notably, his son).

Now the communist values were authentic, but the Christianity was not.

>>17916355 (OP)
He died because he tried fucking other men’s wives. Mormonism is a grift that only survived his deaths because some of the retards he duped went full sunk cost.

Running away might leave him with money, but he would have no more power.

>>17916426
>he made it up and tricked a bunch of idiots
vs.
>If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him
Only one can be true.

>>17916355 (OP)
>Why do people say Joseph Smith made it up
They literally didn't read the book.

>>17916901
I read the book
It’s obviously something verbally dictated as hoc rather than something written down in volumes (as it’s purported to be)
It’s nothing but run on sentences.
The books that Joseph specifically WROTE (Book of Abraham, D&C, etc) rather than dictated don’t suffer from this problem, corroborating the fact that the BoM is not an ancient written document.
Probably half of the BoM is grammatically incorrect paragraph-length “verses” you would only come up with if you had to dictate it whilst you were authoring it simultaneously.

>>17916355 (OP)
>He literally died for his beliefs

>>17916355 (OP)
ETERNAL CELESTIAL SEX

>>17916355 (OP)
>He literally died for his beliefs
Some really terrible people have died for their beliefs.

>>17916355 (OP)
Why couldn't he have a less generic name?

>>17916360this

>>17916355 (OP)
I believe that he believed it

>>17916360
>>17916355 (OP)
Do we really know if either actually died or just faked their deaths?

>>17916355 (OP)
He could have taken the money and run, but then he never would have gotten Illinois to make him the highest-ranking general in the USA, among other exciting and ego-stroking accomplishments.

I recall some documentary on him where an anthropologist was talking about how in tribal societies it’s like ”yeah my dad is a priest, guess I’ll have to pretend to go through these goofy rituals too” and then shit gets real as they go through the motions. I think Smith was a grifter and there weren’t any golden plates or angels, but he clearly had some kind of ecstatic religious experience. You don’t keep up that kind of scam for so long even for money or power or pussy.

>>17917673
Would the fact that they were from Africa be of use to you in discovering the plates to be true?

>>17917307
>muh run on sentences
Your IQ results: 64

>>17917307
It is incredibly advanced Gospel TruthsTM

Truth. The man risked his life more than once for his faith.