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Thread 17918365

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Anonymous No.17918365 >>17918384 >>17918568 >>17919199 >>17919727 >>17919872
is there any scenario where they manage to modernise and survive? any timeline where they manage to recover in the 19th century? I am curious if there were any refomist movements or anything

the prospect of an enduring Imperial China is so interesting to me
Anonymous No.17918384 >>17918428
>>17918365 (OP)
there was a reformist emperor but he was murdered by some bitch then had her child installed as a puppet lol
Anonymous No.17918428 >>17918447 >>17918452 >>17919732
>>17918384
Puyi wasnt Cixi's child but yeah basically. Guangxu would've been THE Chinese great man of the 20th century if the hundred days reforms never failed.
Anonymous No.17918447 >>17918466
>>17918428
What makes great men great is their ability to rise through the rigged systems. Guangxu never once fought on the battlefield etc he was a sheltered boy with high hopes. Which is cool and all but remember dubya bush had great plans for the USA too.
Anonymous No.17918452 >>17918499
>>17918428
It also feels like great reformers are killed for unreasonable reasons
I still seethe to this day the Alexander, liberator of the serfs, who wanted to democratize Russia, was murdered by some looney commie
Anonymous No.17918466
>>17918447
>What makes great men great is their ability to rise through the rigged systems.
I dont think that's a necessary qualifier for great men. What all actual great men have in common is their ability to invoke massive social change and/or progress within their societies. If Guangxu successfully fought off Cixi's coup he would likely be the most famous Chinese emperor, name on the same level as Meiji (except that it would've been Guangxu making actual reforms unlike Meiji who was still just another Japanese emperor). Guangxu likely needed to get western support if he ever wanted to actually get in power in China and I'm sure western countries, with militaries already in his country, would be happy to help.
Anonymous No.17918499 >>17919739
>>17918452
And Franz Ferdinand, a Serbian sympathizer - the only guy in the Austrian political system who would've attempted to stop the war (at least that's what the common narrative is), was killed by a Serbian terrorist. The world works in mysterious ways. I am still so sad the actual decent men in history lives are cut short. Guangxu was a humble man who despite losing to the Japanese and his homeland being torn apart by foreign powers and his own imperial court's misdoing still had hopes and plans to make thing betters once his time came. The Xianfeng was the last emperor with any actual power, lost the 2nd Opium War and literally being an opium junkie. Guangxu was a puppet his entire life and yet still kept a positive outlook on life, I cannot help to respect it when he had all the reason to basically kill everyone.
Anonymous No.17918568 >>17919732
>>17918365 (OP)
>is there any scenario where they manage to modernise and survive?
Continue fighting the Boxer rebellion and killing the Han.
Anonymous No.17919112 >>17919732
There was the Hundred Days' Reform, but it was short-lived.
They should have followed in the footsteps of Japan.
Anonymous No.17919199
>>17918365 (OP)
Parts of the Qing court wanted to just abandon most of China and maintain the monarchy in a smaller Manchu-Mongol state in the north, and personally I think that was their best bet.
Anonymous No.17919727
>>17918365 (OP)
They tried.

The problem is they were also broke ass and gave up a lot of political and military autonomy to local powerbrokers.

With no national coordination to speak of the first step would be re-centralising power- and that would probably cause a Civil War.
Anonymous No.17919732
>>17919112
>>17918568
>>17918428
Great Qing would have their chance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdxtt-xg484
Anonymous No.17919739
>>17918499
>Maximilian (execution)
>Mathilde (accident)
>Rudolf (suicide)
>Sissi (assassination)
Tragedy of the imperial families
Anonymous No.17919872
>>17918365 (OP)
>any scenario
none