Thread 17922614

IT HAD ROME AND IT WAS ROME!
CHIMP ABOUT IT!

>>17922614 (OP)
WHEN YOU HAVE ROME! ONLY THAN YOU ARE ROME!

>>17922614 (OP)
this is rome 2.0

>>17922614 (OP)
I believe most WRE Romaboos are either too heavily emotionally invested in the discussion to accept even the most basic facts about the Eastern Roman Empire, or have swallowed too much medieval autistic German propaganda.

>>17924344
>I believe most WRE Romaboos are either too heavily emotionally invested in the discussion to accept even the most basic facts about the Eastern Roman Empire
I don't believe it is possible to even understand the West without the East in the 5th cenntury

>>17924344
Retards from the ERE willingly let hordes of gothic bums cross the Danube and miserably failed to deal with their expected chimpout. I hate Valens and his corrupt cronies so fucking much it's unreal.

>>17924381
>The Goths were to have their weapons confiscated but, whether because the Romans in charge accepted bribes, the Romans did not have the manpower to check all of the incoming warriors, or warriors recruited into the Roman army would need their own arms, many Goths were allowed to retain their weapons. The Romans placed the Thervings along the southern bank of the Danube in Lower Mœsia as they waited for the land allocations to begin. In the interim, the Roman state was to provide them food.
Were they retarded?

>>17922614 (OP)
For me, it's the Byzantine Empire after the Islamic conquests.

>>17924440
let me guess
and than its the ottoman sandniggers?!

>>17925253
What's odd is Heraclius had great relations with the Turks. They helped him defeat the Persians. If the Khan didn't die like 2 months after the war we might not have had the Arab conquest.

>>17922614 (OP)
>IT HAD ROME AND IT WAS ROME!
god bless you

>>17922617
St Ignatius only just died, give the Christians a little time

>>17924344
when I was a CAESAR AVGVSTI romaboo (yeah, past tense, doe 4chan know you are allowed to change opinions over time?) I never even paid any attention to after the western half fell. Constantine was basically it and he was cool and the start of Christianity but they stopped wearing the lorica segmentatum therefore my video-game-zombified brain stopped caring due to lack of cool heavy infantry factor.
I literally was just blind. That's how it works without the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, according to Orthodox perspective. You are literally just operating with ego tunnel vision.

YOU WILL NEVER BE A ROMAN

>>17924440
Byzantium is Divine Liturgy every Sunday

>>17925969
You will possess VIRTVS and you will be a TRVE ROMAN

>>17924433
>Romans in charge accepted bribes
supposedly goths pimped their wives and daughters to them

>>17924440
SERBIA!!!!!

>>17922614 (OP)
hmmmm

>>17926505
whats intressting is that even late then one can see that eastern roman empire still rome
(check out the pow cloths)

>>17925973
DEUS VOLT!

>>17926788
this is east roman greek orthodox empire you retard
deus volt is latin

>>17922614 (OP)
I appreciate what the East did for Rome and I recognize it as Roman but I don't have any interest or investment in Greek culture. My interest in the Roman Empire after the 6th century is in its existence as a political entity and a continuation of Greek-Roman civilization in the East but I have always had more interest in Latin-Roman civilization.

>>17927205
>>17927205
this "latin-roman" died with the fall of rome to the germanic

I was reading a mefieval legal history book recently that spent the first 100 pages or so talking about classical antiquity and the early middle ages. It mentioned in passing the idea of a "silent fall" of the WRE where there was such a degree of institutional continuity during the 5th and early 6th centuries that people only recognized that things had fundamentally changed several generations later. Id never heard that before, is it really true?

The author also said in a footnote that he was using the terms "germanic tribes" and "barbarians" because of longstanding traditional use, but found them problematic terms and would not have used them in a book focused on the migration period. Whats problematic about germanic tribes? Is it an oversimplification or something?

>>17927259
it didn't die it just transformed into the medieval Latin west. This isn't some sort of cope either, the culture of the medieval west was a blend of Roman and Germanic. The reason I like to separate Roman into Latin Roman and Greek Roman is because it allows for more nuance. The Medieval West can therefore claim to be the successor of Latin Roman culture and society while the Greek Romans of the still extent Roman Empire were still around.
And no this isn't just some sort of "barbarian opium" late Roman Senatorial families continued to exist and hold positions of importance in most "barbarian" kingdoms after the fall of Rome for quite a while. At the same time literary culture as it existed in the Post-Roman West and through to the end of the Middle Ages and beyond retained continuity with Latin Roman traditions even if it evolved and changed so that it was no longer a 100% exact replica of classical Latin Roman culture. Even places and peoples who were never Roman became heavily influenced by Roman culture thanks to the prestige of Latin learning in the Catholic Church.
There is a lot of false information about how Greek and Roman works were unknown in Western Europe until the Renaissance but that is flat out wrong. Greek texts might not have been available but Latin Roman texts certainly were.

>>17927370
>Whats problematic about germanic tribes? Is it an oversimplification or something?
the main problem is that it makes it seem like some sort of concerted effort by a united group of peoples, the Germanics, to topple the Roman Empire. While the Germanic tribes were certainly a thing and while the Romans did like to group them all together as barbarians the Germanic peoples themselves were hardly a single united group in practice. Good luck convincing a Catholic Frank and an Arian Vandal that they were in fact the same race.

>>17927355
catho.dog scum

>>17927562
The orthocuck is angry lmaoooooooooooooooooooooo

>>17927370
>"germanic tribes","barbarians"
not germanic, not tribes, not barbarians

>>17927370
>where there was such a degree of institutional continuity during the 5th and early 6th centuries that people only recognized that things had fundamentally changed several generations later. Id never heard that before, is it really true?
When it comes to law it's a 'sort of'. Outside of Ostrogothic Italy most other institutions just ceased to exist. So long as one wasn't trying to go to court and didn't interact with any Germanic peoples, Roman law still persisted for Romans and their practices, although it changed over time with new independent traditions without any state to wrangle and really care about these laws. The Roman legal system and courts no longer existed, but traditions remained.
>Whats problematic about germanic tribes? Is it an oversimplification or something?
Sometimes a simplification, especially when you want to talk about anything more specific than a generalisation. The Ostrogoths were not like the Visigoths who were not like the Franks who were not like the Vandals and so on. Objection to the term as a whole is basically personal taste as not being politically correct and so on. If you're using it in a general sense there isn't an issue with the term unless you have one yourself.
>>17927386
>late Roman Senatorial families continued to exist and hold positions of importance in most "barbarian" kingdoms after the fall of Rome for quite a while
This is not true outside of Italy. Romans were barred from nearly all positions of power across the entire west. Only Bishops remained majority Roman and that's only because they were elected by the local community and they remained at the mercy of their new rulers.

Byzantium was much more Roman in every sense than neo-Europeans like to admit. People literally moved from Italy to Constantinople.

>>17929092
>Byzantium was much more Roman in every sense than neo-Europeans like to admit. People literally moved from Italy to Constantinople.
/thread

>>17922614 (OP)
Rome died giving birth to Caesar.

>>17927370
>>17927391
It’s more than that. It’s also that the groups they were fighting with weren’t ethnic or linguistic monoliths. The Vandal army for example had a lot of Iranian groups inside of it, along with some early Slavs according to DNA evidence. It makes more sense to view the “tribes” as political syndicate entities, rather than as ethno-linguistic or cultural blocs.

>>17929695
Most of the older Germanic tribes were just confederations.

>>17928736
Nearly nothing is true in this guy’s post. The fuck? Kys

>>17924232
Well, this is than Rome 1,0 I guess

And this would be Rome 2,0

Hot take: it was the Roman Empire up until the mid-600's during Heraclius' reign, when they lost a ton of territory and got pushed into what would become their core territory: the Balkans and Anatolia, changed the language officially to Greek, and implemented reforms that dramatically moved away from the Roman form of government. That's when it transitioned into the Byzantine Empire, not magically in one day in 476 because a fake emperor in the West got deposed.

The empire Justinian reigned over was still very much Roman, but that only lasted for another ~100 years.

>>17930748
I'd say this is about as hot a take as saying the empire ended in 1204.

>>17928736
>Romans were barred from nearly all positions of power across the entire west.
that's not really true, there's instances of Romans holding military commands in the Burhundian, Frankish, and Visigothic Kingdoms.
>Mummolus (also spelled Mommolus or Mummulus), was a Gallo-Roman patrician and prefect who served Guntram, King of Burgundy, as a general in the 6th century.
>Felix (floruit 660s)[1] was a patrician in the Frankish kingdom under the Merovingians.[2] He had his seat at Toulouse. According to the tenth-century Miracula sancti Martialis lemovicensis, Felix was "a noble and renowned patrician from the town of Toulouse, who had obtained authority over all the cities up to the Pyrenees and over the iniquitous people of the Wascones," that is, the Basques.
>Claudius was a Hispano-Roman Catholic dux (duke) of Lusitania (or dux Emeretensis civitatis)[1] in the late sixth century. He was one of the most successful generals of Reccared I.[2]
There's probably more but that's just what I could find after a few minutes of looking

>>17922614 (OP)
I like the word Byzantine...

>>17922614 (OP)
Here's the REAL Roman Empire.

>>17931760
op stole my maps and reposted them, even i made the western rome blue, hinting that rome no longer was one, but two

you can see here first when rome was pagan

and here when i added two cross (roman catholic and roman orthodox)

and finaly with the actual split

here is the original one without modern borders

and then I switched the blue for the franks after the fall of western rome

>>17931368
Even though it's inaccurate, it is a pretty kino name.

>>17931885
What's the symbol for African paganism?