Thread 17929705

I can understand atheist objections to Islam, but how do Christians constantly decry Muhammad having sex with a nine year old wife when that sort of thing hardly seems to conflict with the Bible? Doesn’t the Bible even feature God commanding genocide and rape? I seriously doubt child brides were considered some sort of moral failing in that context, and they were totally permissible in Christ’s time. The Empire and the Byzantines even had a marital age for cohabitation (the age when marriage could be consummated) at seven. They very rarely had marriages at that age but Jews allowed an even younger age and they did frequently have child brides and Jesus never excoriates them


What I’m saying is obviously it makes sense for an atheist to have progressive qualms with desert morality, isn’t it hypocritical for a Christian or a Jew to? Or at least consider it the extremity of evil?

>>17929705 (OP)
>What I’m saying is obviously it makes sense for an atheist to have progressive qualms with desert morality

Morals can't actually exist if you're an atheist though.

>>17929715
I don’t see what your point is on this. There are plenty of mathematicians who consider math to not be real, contrasted with mathematical Platonists. Are you saying that therefore these people have no right making mathematical judgements?

>>17929705 (OP)
Prophet Muhammad ﷺ is the ultimate filter and exposes larpers who want to present themselves as based, in Matthew 23 verse 2-3 Jesus says to his followers to follow the Rabbis who taught the written/oral law which means Christians have to fully accept not only the OT but also the talmud that states King David got a five year old pregnant and lets not forget about Rebbeca.

>>17929705 (OP)
http://markhumphrys.com/islam.killings.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=dar+al+islam
http://www.google.com/search?q=dar+al+harb

>>17929750
There are a lot of edicts in Islam which are cognate with the Talmud, as well as stories. The most famous is mentioned in the Quran, if you kill one man it is as if you killed all of humanity, and it was obviously known to be in the Talmud since the Quran says God told it to the Jews

>>17929715
You're saying that Atheists don't have morals or that without god there's no morality?

much ado about aishas age, dont hear much on marys age

>>17929705 (OP)
Aisha was never even mentioned in the Quran, its all hadith hogwash.

>>17929705 (OP)
In Christianity you’re meant to bang young boys, not girls.

>>17929896
Catholicbros...

>>17929845
so all the talk on aisha who married post puberty is a mute point?

>>17930052
It's hypocritical to have something against it that's all.

>>17929705 (OP)
It's an easy what aboutism for them to bring up.
They aren't gonna delve into how similar parallels existed in Christianity with kings marring teenagers because tundra "ethics", boreal forest "principles", and swamp "ideals" are highly anti intellectual.

>>17929705 (OP)
Very simple. Muhammad is presented as a paragon of virtue. Israel isn't.

>Doesn’t the Bible even feature God commanding genocide
Yes. Did God command Muhammad to fuck a child?
>and rape?
No.
>child brides
>totally permissible in Christ’s time
Maybe. Christ's time isn't presented as a paragon of virtue.
>Byzantines
>Age of seven
The limit was 14 for girls and 15 for boys. The Church did not recognize valid consummation before puberty. What happened at 7 years is the contracting of the marriage.
>Jews
Who cares?

>>17930102
so aisha can't marry young but mary can? intresting breakdown

>>17930118
Someone fucked at age 9 vs a virgin. Interesting comparison. Lmao

>>17929896
t. Köçek

>>17930102
According to Islam, yes, A’isha is the only one of Muhammad wives whom he married specifically because God told him to. The rest of his wives were much older than her and all were either widowed or divorced, he was the only virgin he married. The reason he was commanded to according to the beliefs of most Muslims is because she would be an important witness of his personal life and words in old age long after everyone else close to him had died

>>17930317
I'm discussing "fucked", not "married".

>>17930102
The Church had no right or sacrament for “valid” consummation, “invalid consummation” isn’t actually a thing in Catholicism. Invalid marriage ordination communion baptism and so on, yes. Not consummation, consummation is either fornication, or licit and in holy matrimony.

>>17930228
Aisha was the only virgin he married specifically, all his other wives were widowed or divorced. Virgin in semitic lands was almost synonymous with prepubescent (males also fren married very young or fought in wars at nine)

>>17930322
There is no such thing as “invalid fucking” in Catholicism, fucking is not considered a sacrament. There is only fornicating versus sex with marriage

>>17930325
> “invalid consummation” isn’t actually a thing in Catholicism
Good thing we were discussing Byzantine (Orthodox) traditions then, as per OP.

>>17930331
Aisha was the fucked one.

>>17930335
I never discussed Catholicism. OP mentions Byzantine traditions.

>>17930389
aisha was post puberty and then married as is aligned with islamic sunnah and fiqh, mary was what 14?

>>17930597
That's still underage according to united states law

>>17929715
I don't have to think morality is written on the stars to not want to harm people, or to think that societies that punish their wrongdoers generally are stronger than those that don't.

>>17930331
>Aisha was the only virgin he married specifically, all his other wives were widowed or divorced.
Based Hagchad.

>>17929705 (OP)
I just dont like them so I use anything possible to get them upset. Bringing up Moohammy railing a 9 year old seems to do the trick

>>17929856
The Quran doesn't tell you how to pray either, this cope that "its just a hadith" doesnt work if your actually know anything about islam.

>>17931148
conflicting hadiths by sunnis and shias on aisha and her age puts it in the we dont know category islamically speaking, many hadiths are fabricated, and all were written hundereds of years after his death, its more akin to the bible, while the quran is diffrent as the direct word of god

>>17931207
It’s not really akin to the Bible because Hadiths can be argued as valid or invalid on various points and the ones that are valid are grouped into degrees of likelihood

>>17930331
Well yeah, after his crew murdered Sofia's husband he "married" Sofia.
Sofia got raped. Aisha arguably didn't because she didn't remember life before seeing those henna-dyed red pubes in her face

>>17929705 (OP)
funny how you compare something that happened 3000 years ago vs 1400 years ago. that makes the whole aisha thing even worse

>>17931256
Sofia’s husband led a military insurrection by Jews against Muhammad despite being in an alliance with him. Safiyyah, by her own account, originally hated Muhammad for killing her father and husband but eventually came to like him because he didn’t beat the shit out of her like they did

>>17931263
Why? life did not change that much between those two time periods, if at all

>>17930102
>>and rape?
>No.
That's just not true

>>17931290
Actually over a thousand years is a lot of time for the wheel of progress

the people using presentism agasinst islam as an argument when all else fails is peak degen behavior and hypocrisy.

>>17931298
What does that even mean? How can you justify that such "progress" always moves in a positive direction and universally so? Even today we have parts of the world that are not progressive at all by western standards, and this is with modern communication methods that allow progressive ideas to spread instantly. Show me how life between those two periods of time was different. Looking at lifespan we can see that until recently people pretty much had the same quality of life

>>17931298
What do you mean by "progress", their was no substantive changes in standard of living from antiquity to immediately prior to the modern era in the civilized world. And child marriage was a legally recognized thing in the in the United States up until the 1920s. Theirs no reason to believe their was any change at all on people's view of the proper age of consumation for woman from the late bronze age to a pre-"medieval" society.

>>17930354
you’ll notice he says betrothal and not marriage
whilst muhammad (police be upon him) consummated (fucked) his 9 year old bride aisha

>>17932347
>>17930360