Thread 17931716

I used to be orthodox Christian and then January of this year I read about the history of ancient israel and Judah and here's what I learned

>No United strong kingdom
>Never enslaved in Egypt
>None of the prophets ever existed
>Israelites and Judeans were just bronze ages Canaanites who took canaanite paganism and made a henotheistic cult around Yahweh and didn't even become monotheistic after being exposed to Zoroastrianism after their return from Babylonian exile by the Achaemenid Persians empire

I was already a passive Atheist, but after enter the rabbit hole (just like a half ft) it was obvious that's all bullshit

"The faster way to Atheism is the Bible" ironically

Even leaving the bible, there's no good argument for the existence of a god that don't up being god of gaps or some circular contradictory shit logic

If there's an elephant in the room is that contemporaries of Jesus expected his return in their lifetime, certainly not in 2000 more years

>>17931716 (OP)
Ancient israel is fictional

>>17931763
There was an ancient Israel, but it was completely different from what the Bible claims

Archeological evidence shows that Exodus never happened and instead of the Israelites conquering Canaan, the Israelites were just another Canaanite tribe that eventually became the dominant one. The earliest reference to “Israel” is the Merneptah stele around the 13th century BC which lists “Israel” as one of the many Canaanite tribes the Egyptians subdued around that time. Hebrew itself is literally a Canaanite language no different from Phoenician or Moabite. Due to how similar they are, I'd argue that they're not even separate languages but rather all dialects of one language.

The ancient Israelites were polytheistic and later henotheistic. Yahwism (aka proto-Judaism) evolved out of Canaanite paganism. Yahweh was originally a Canaanite storm god that eventually got elevated by the Israelites as the supreme deity and was syncretized with another deity called “El” (this is also why Yahweh is sometimes called "Elohim" as "Elohim" deprives from "El". This is also where the name “Israel” comes from as “Israel” literally means “rule of El”). Yahweh even had a consort named Asherah. The Israelites only actually became monotheistic after returning from exile in Babylon, which is interestingly around the same time they made contact with the monotheistic Zoroastrians.

>>17931768
>Israelites were just another Canaanite tribe that eventually became the dominant one
Doesn't seem corroborated by history

>>17931864
Got any evidence to back up your claim?

>>17932053
You're the one with a positive position my lad

I'm interested too, where can I check that?

>>17931716 (OP)
>>None of the prophets ever existed
the what?

>>17932132
Find me a single verified tomb or burial where any of the old testament prophets are said to have been buried in

>>17931864
Israel had to emerge from an existing civilization. People are kind of surprised by that but it's the only logical position. So yeah, they were Canaanites who differentiated themselves since all the archaeological evidence points to that.
Though that doesn't mean you have to be atheist or anything since religion is not academia.

>>17931716 (OP)
nobody ever existed and nothing ever happens

>>17932456
Why wouldn't you be atheist after reading and knowing that history which completely contradicts all three Abrahaic religions?

>>17932456
Hyksos?
>>17932476
Most classical department academics are “spiritual” The mysteries of life and death precede Abrahamic religions, where do you think they got their mythos? Why do you think every culture group on earth despite being spread out by time and distance have the same specific motifs?

>>17931763
>>17931768
Look more into the Aten cult.
https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=27457.0

>>17931716 (OP)
>No United strong kingdom
Not only there was one, but it had enough ressources to build infrastucture such fortress and the first temple. Go read "The Fortifications of Ancient Israel and Judah 1200–586 BC".

>Never enslaved in Egypt
The presence of enslaved Asiatics is attested in Egypt at the time of the Hebrews. The presence of Monotheistic asiatics is also attested in Egypt at the time of the Hebrews.

>King Apophis chose for his Lord the god Seth. He did not worship any other deity in the whole land except Seth.
-The Quarrel of Apophis and Seqenenre

>None of the prophets ever existed
They left us entire books and their tombs, and some seals:

>In find of biblical proportions, seal of Prophet Isaiah said found in Jerusalem
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-find-of-biblical-proportions-proof-of-prophet-isaiah-believed-unearthed/

>Israelites and Judeans were just bronze ages Canaanites
The Amarna letters attest of the Hebrew conquest of Canaan and that Hebrews were migrants into Canaan.


>who took canaanite paganism
Yahweh wasn't part of the Canaanite pantheon and the Hebrew sacrifical system and feasts differ from that of Ugarit and Carthage.

>and made a henotheistic cult around Yahweh
Nope.
“See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.
Deuteronomy 32:39

>and didn't even become monotheistic after being exposed to Zoroastrianism after their return from Babylonian exile by the Achaemenid Persians empire
Zoroastrianism is polytheistic, you'd know that if you had even bothered opening the Avesta. Do you know what the Avesta is btw?


Anyway, your post just show how shallow your "research" and knowledge about Christianity were. Not a big loss to our religion tbqh.

>>17932581
Zoroastrianism is polytheistic, you'd know that if you had even bothered opening the Avesta. Do you know what the Avesta is btw
I have unlike you and it’s not polytheistic. They only worship one god named Ahura Mazda, and make no references to others

>>17932602
>I have unlike you and it’s not polytheistic.
LMAO

We sacrifice unto Verethraghna, made by Ahura.
Zarathushtra asked Ahura Mazda: 'Ahura Mazda, most beneficent Spirit, Maker of the material world, thou Holy One!
>'Who is the best-armed of the heavenly gods?'
>Ahura Mazda answered: 'It is Verethraghna, made by Ahura, O Spitama Zarathushtra!'
https://www.avesta.org/ka/yt14_bi.htm


The Old Persian inscriptions written during the Exilic Period show that Zoroastrians were polytheistic btw.

>Ahura Mazda bore me aid AS DID THE OTHER GODS WHO EXIST. Darius the King declares: [And] on account of this Ahura Mazda bore [me] aid as did the other gods who are: because I was not hostile, I was not a follower of the Lie, I was not an evil man -- not I, not [any] of my family. In accordance with Truth did I behave. 65 Neither to the weak nor to the powerful did I do harm.
- Darian Inscription DB IV


I repeat you're not a big loss for our religion. Enjoy hell, you lying idolatrous filth.

>>17931716 (OP)
I'm interested about learning. Can you point me to the sources you read?

>>17931716 (OP)
The actual history of ancient Israel is in the bible, and learning it made me a Christian

>>17932476
paganism. Embrace the spirituality. Understand your roots and nature and yourself. You dont need a god, or if you do, pick one, or all or make one up, but why not exaine your own heritage first? Humans are spiritual. Its in the blood.

>>17932548
Is this a serious question? Because we are all the same species and generally operate the same and we can all see the night sky when it's dark. Earth isn't as big as you think

>>17931716 (OP)
You shouldn’t take all your history from Wikipedia

>>17931716 (OP)
Lol another former orthocuck larper who either went back to protestantism, switched to Islam or Catholicism or became atheist

>>17933502
So giants, flood, someone going up to the heavens, serpent diety, Prometheus archetype, gods mating with human archetype, are all because of stars? The world is a small place? Explain the similarities of these motifs that were already established in the old and new world.

>No United strong kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_stele#:~:text=The%20Tel%20Dan%20Stele%20is,team%20led%20by%20Avraham%20Biran.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0146107916639208
>Never enslaved in Egypt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avaris
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell_el-Dab%27a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi-Ramesses
>None of the prophets ever existed
picrel
>Israelites and Judeans were just bronze ages Canaanites who took canaanite paganism and made a henotheistic cult around Yahweh and didn't even become monotheistic after being exposed to Zoroastrianism after their return from Babylonian exile by the Achaemenid Persians empire
That the jews were unfaithful to God is one of the central themes of the scriptures, not some piece of damning evidence against the truth of the scriptures

>>17931740
They didn't expect him to be pro-roman, despite Massinissa himself causing the fall of Carthage by switching sides to Rome.
Tolkiens Arwen is based on the Jotunn Gerdr, daughter of Gymir. Or, Magdalene of (gh)Omri.
This foreign branch of the Cimmerians/Celts were the Jotuns, and Gerdr/Magdalene decided to marry into the northern Cimbri tradesmen of Jutland (Jotneland) after having briefly resided among the Manx and held a wedding with Freyr in the Outer Hebrides.
Events all spoofed in Star Wars and Lotr by choice of filming locations and etymology.