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Thread 17931886

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Anonymous No.17931886 >>17931904 >>17931912 >>17932095 >>17932098 >>17932407 >>17932451 >>17932497 >>17932625 >>17932689 >>17932706 >>17932773 >>17932785 >>17932812 >>17932841 >>17932900 >>17933472 >>17933500 >>17933509 >>17935169
Why not literally worship science?
If sciences like astronomy and physics reveal to us the true nature of the universe then they are holy pursuits.
Anonymous No.17931900 >>17931916 >>17932192
Science is a false god, Yahweh alone is true God
Anonymous No.17931904 >>17931916 >>17931925 >>17932626
>>17931886 (OP)
science will never be almighty because it's impossible to understand the whole universe while also still being a part of it
Anonymous No.17931912 >>17931919 >>17932188 >>17935151
>>17931886 (OP)
Science is about a methodology of understanding, what's their to worship?

Everything is up for revision, knowledge aswell as the methodology so that by itself leaves no room to sacralize anything. Which is what makes science beyond holy or sacred.
Anonymous No.17931916 >>17932383
>>17931900
>>17931904
Yahweh is a false god who has no bearing on the real world. Science has predictive power and grants boons to its followers.
Anonymous No.17931917
This exists it's called Scientism. Without ethics and philosophy it leads to atrocities.

Remember "trust the science" during COVID? That was people literally worshiping science. They even had Jesus Candles but with Fauci on them instead. Is that what you want?
Anonymous No.17931919 >>17931978 >>17932031 >>17932106
>>17931912
Sacralize the very pursuit of truth. Scientists are merely the prophets attempting to interpret the divine laws of the universe, much like Roman augurs. They can be wrong and it is an imperative that they face revision when they are.
Anonymous No.17931925 >>17932376
>>17931904
>it's impossible to understand the whole universe while also still being a part of it
Why? Those two things dont follow from each other at all.
Anonymous No.17931956
>you don't understand
>If you worship the monkey with seven dicks?
>My country shits gold
Lmao
Anonymous No.17931978 >>17931981
>>17931919
>Sacralize the very pursuit of truth.
Why?
>Scientists are merely the prophets attempting to interpret the divine laws of the universe
Why are the 'laws of the universe' divine?
Anonymous No.17931981 >>17931986
>>17931978
>Why are the 'laws of the universe' divine?
Because they bind and define our lives. They are the forces that rule over us.
Anonymous No.17931986 >>17931992 >>17932629
>>17931981
That doesn't make them divine.
Anonymous No.17931992 >>17931997
>>17931986
Then Zeus and Poseidon and Hades were not divine either.
Anonymous No.17931997 >>17932002
>>17931992
Those are literal gods, so by definition they are divine.
Anonymous No.17932002 >>17932012
>>17931997
They were analogous to forces of nature. The Greeks worshipped them because they impacted their lives.
Anonymous No.17932012 >>17932019
>>17932002
They were characterized as sentient beings who to my knowledge wielded or controlled their respective forces of nature. That's different from directly worshiping a tornado, the rain of the weak nuclear force.
Anonymous No.17932019 >>17932023
>>17932012
Read Heraclitus, or Xenophanes.
Anonymous No.17932023 >>17932039
>>17932019
No. If you've read them then use your own words to tell me why I'm wrong.
Anonymous No.17932031 >>17932040
>>17931919
>Sacralize the very pursuit of truth
The pursuit of truth has nothing to do with science. Knowledge =/= Truth, what your really thinking of is philosophy, science is the domain of objectality.
Anonymous No.17932034 >>17932189
OP doesnt know what science is
Anonymous No.17932039 >>17932045
>>17932023
The best way I can put it is there was a cultural movement in the Greek world away from the mythologised Homeric gods towards a more naturalistic view of divinity. This tradition began with Heraclitus and Xenophanes but persisted over the centuries all the way to the end of the Hellenic faith. You can see the echoes of this in the writings of Plato, Aristotle, the stoics, the atomists. It was a commonly held sentiment among the intellectual elites of the Greek and Roman worlds.
Anonymous No.17932040 >>17932094
>>17932031
What is truer than objective reality? Nothing.
Therefore its study is the pursuit of truth.
Anonymous No.17932045 >>17932058
>>17932039
That ties back to everything how? You want a religion based on science worship/some form of rationalism and that's best achieved by deliberately creating new deities based on the weather and natural forces, because... we are unable to avoid being affected by gravity in our daily lives, therefore that force 'rules' us, therefore it is divine, therefore we should invest a bearded guy named Gravitonos that personifies this force? This is the best way to promote rational thinking about the world around us?
Anonymous No.17932058 >>17932059
>>17932045
No. We should worship creation and the pursuit of truth in of itself.
Anonymous No.17932059 >>17932062
>>17932058
Why?
Anonymous No.17932062 >>17932067
>>17932059
In order to learn about ourselves and our place in the universe and discover the inner workings of reality.
Anonymous No.17932067 >>17932073
>>17932062
>In order to learn about ourselves
Then psychology, biology and anthropology would be more appropriate than something as abstract as 'creation'
>our place in the universe
That's entirely for us to define, and if it isn't then that implies intentionality from some other sentient force that wants us somewhere, goes at the moment is an entirely unscientific idea as there is no evidence for it
>discover the inner workings of reality.
Sounds like mumbo jumbo unless you literally just mean study physics, which we already do.
Anonymous No.17932073 >>17932322
>>17932067
We cannot define it if we do not know. First we must know.
Anonymous No.17932094 >>17932099 >>17932635
>>17932040
My bad I got it the other way around, philosophy is the domain objectality, science is the domain of objectivity.

The study of objects can only give you knowledge of objects not truth; truth is the object cause. For example, science cannot inquire upon the limits of reason or how reason is done, philosophy which is able to deal with this precisely because its going about the meta frameworks that I will call the "object cause". Truth has a different object to knowledge.
Anonymous No.17932095
>>17931886 (OP)
Aristotle did.
Anonymous No.17932098
>>17931886 (OP)
Oh my Science!
Anonymous No.17932099 >>17932151
>>17932094
Sufficiently complete knowledge becomes truth.
Anonymous No.17932106 >>17932107
>>17931919
Science does not pursuit truth, fag
Anonymous No.17932107 >>17932199
>>17932106
Yes it does.
Anonymous No.17932125 >>17935174
>Cult of Reason (1793): The radical Hรฉbertists and their allies promoted a religion of Reason, which treated reason, nature, and sometimes science as sacred. Churches were turned into โ€œTemples of Reason,โ€ with festivals celebrating liberty, progress, and rationality. At the Festival of Reason in Notre-Dame (1793), a living woman personified Liberty/Reason, replacing the Virgin Mary at the altar.
Based.
Anonymous No.17932151 >>17932163
>>17932099
No.

No matter how much we learn about the brain it will not give us the truth behind how reason comes about precisely because the very conditions of understanding objects requires reason. Just like how science cant tell you what nature is, only what is in nature. Philosophy can tell you what is nature such that it is actually a valuable conceptual tool; Hegal defines nature as self-outsidedness.

Scientists are not invested in any philosophical framework, neither empiricism nor any theoretical framework, they are purely pragmatic-- and this is a good thing. Its grasping at objects and seeing what they do.
Anonymous No.17932163 >>17932167
>>17932151
>No matter how much we learn about the brain it will not give us the truth behind how reason comes about
Wrong.
Anonymous No.17932167
>>17932163
Whats the scientific explanation for reason?
Anonymous No.17932188 >>17932201
>>17931912
>Everything is up for revision
Except when "the science is settled" which is conspicuously common in modern science. There are plenty of false idols to worship in the world of heckin' science and everyone from pseudo-intellectuals to common dope fiends are doing it out in the open while pretending not to.
Anonymous No.17932189
>>17932034
Neither do most people who run their mouths about it, to be fair.
Anonymous No.17932192
>>17931900
Fuck your god Yahweh...how about that. Add me to the list faggot
Anonymous No.17932199
>>17932107
Not really.
Anonymous No.17932201 >>17932725
>>17932188
>"the science is settled"
Is something used in public discourse against stupid people who wanna pseud their way into making social change by midwits who dont know what they're talking about either but know better than to use their petty understanding for a rational political decision.

Thats not something that even enters into the education in scientific discourse.
Anonymous No.17932322 >>17932363
>>17932073
>First we must know.
That's something you can't know unless you buy into religion. The scientific answer is that there is no inherent purpose. Purpose is defined by us, not for us.
Anonymous No.17932363 >>17932367
>>17932322
The purpose is to discover the truth.
Anonymous No.17932367 >>17932394
>>17932363
How does one do that and how is it relevant to your ideas?
Anonymous No.17932376 >>17932426
>>17931925
Universe is subjectve aka what you observe depends on your position in the spacetime, it's impossible to ever solve and understand all of universe, if you ever become all-seeing and all- knowing then you would still known only one version of the universe
Anonymous No.17932383 >>17932450 >>17932978
>>17931916
>no bearing on the real world

Science is fake BS that says men can become women. The idol is failing
Anonymous No.17932394 >>17932420
>>17932367
Only philosophical suicide can render truth irrelevant. To know is to unify. With or without end, it does not matter. The principle holds the same.
Anonymous No.17932407
>>17931886 (OP)
Because it's pointless idealism. Worship is orthogonal to the materialism that science is based off of, and adds nothing to the field. Instead, it creates idealist structures parallel to the materialist science, which can themselves cause problems and stymie the progress of science. For example, consider people who equate a hypothesis with reality and start defending it with political force- they'd create a group of people who would have to be defeated with violence before scientific progress could be made.
Such groups exist in modern times, and they're bad enough to deal with.
Anonymous No.17932420
>>17932394
Now you're just trying to sound fancy without actually saying anything.
Anonymous No.17932426 >>17932467
>>17932376
>what you observe depends on your position in the spacetime
Correct
>if you ever become all-seeing and all- knowing then you would still known only one version of the universe
Its a good thing that we dont derive all our knowledge from observation.
Anonymous No.17932441
going teehee isn't heckin science kinda like a religion after seeing too much black science man and getting mad is the prime midwit take. not being able to effectively argue that midwit take away by reviewing what you picked up in fourth fucking grade is prime retardation. the public education system has failed all of (You).
Anonymous No.17932450 >>17935176
>>17932383
Is it not laughable that you believe in a sacred, infrangible
law, "thou shalt not kill" in an existence characterized by perpetual murder?
Anonymous No.17932451 >>17932462
>>17931886 (OP)
>If sciences like astronomy and physics reveal to us the true nature of the universe then they are holy pursuits.
That's retarded. That can be argued about literally any finding.
Anonymous No.17932462
>>17932451
Every finding is important, but not every finding teaches us by what process it is that we came about.
Anonymous No.17932467 >>17932482
>>17932426
observation is limited to light speed so you will never be able to understand the universe whatsoever
Anonymous No.17932482 >>17932539
>>17932467
Observation of the skies was limited by each man's eyesight if you go back a couple centuries. Today it is limited by the cosmic microwave background. What it will be limited by in a couple centuries more, you do not know.
Anonymous No.17932497
>>17931886 (OP)
>why
because science is being overrun by nutty leftists
Anonymous No.17932539
>>17932482
information cannot travel faster than light without breaking causality, this limit will never allow humans to fully discover and understand the universe
Anonymous No.17932547
I like science, because science tells you to question science and everything really
I don't really worship it because its just a concept, of questioning everything until the truth is known
Anonymous No.17932625
>>17931886 (OP)
Because most people wouldn't really worship science, the methodology/philosophy of pursuing knowledge through experimentation and testing
They would end up worshiping specific pet theories or models, ironically going against the spirit of the science they claim to worship
Anonymous No.17932626
>>17931904
and ?
Anonymous No.17932629 >>17934375
>>17931986
if that doesn't make something divine, then nothing does
Anonymous No.17932635 >>17932707
>>17932094
Truth is nothing more than a tag for statements that accurately describe reality
Studying objects allow to accurately describe them, therefore leading to the truth of them
Anonymous No.17932657 >>17932664 >>17932694 >>17932716
what does worshiping science provide for us or science
doing some larpy gay ritual for it provides no objective benefit for anybody
Anonymous No.17932664
>>17932657
Being gay is the point I think.
Anonymous No.17932689
>>17931886 (OP)
It is decentralized
So are it's methods
Anonymous No.17932694
>>17932657
would allow us to call the "science is settle" folk heretics
Anonymous No.17932706 >>17932748
>>17931886 (OP)
What would you define worship as?
Anonymous No.17932707 >>17932804
>>17932635
No. What your describing is knowledge, you can always have more knowledge about how objects function but truth does not require any knowledge. Truth is definite: for example if we take any object we can tinker with it and observe and we may have knowledge of it through this but the one of the only truths of this object is that it is not the object behind it or infront of it, it is separated from other objects by space and space is difference. That is a truth statement because it inquires into the nature of being rather than any particulars which are always subject to revision.
Anonymous No.17932716
>>17932657
Well if you're able to implant this idea into the head of every person in a nation you'd presumably have much higher reverence and interest in the sciences and more leeway for policy makers to distribute funding for research.
Anonymous No.17932725
>>17932201
>Thats not something that even enters into the education in scientific discourse.
milikan oil drop experiment lmao
decades of people fudging their data to agree with the "settled science" even though their raw data was correct and the "settled science" was wrong
Anonymous No.17932748 >>17932762
>>17932706
Like Aristotle
Anonymous No.17932758 >>17932760
Religion comes from sacred truth
Anonymous No.17932760
>>17932758
Exactly what I'm saying.
Anonymous No.17932762
>>17932748
what does this mean
Anonymous No.17932773
>>17931886 (OP)
This is one of the things people mean by atheism being a religion. The fact that abolishing religion didn't abolish the belief in reality-behind-the-everyday-reality. To atheists, that hidden reality is disclosed by disembodied reason and expressed in formulas. Which is fine, that's Descartes, that's Copernicus, that's what got us smartphones. But focusing on one micro-component of the religious enterprise doesn't abolish the religious enterprise. It just hyper-focuses it and misleads you.
Anonymous No.17932785
>>17931886 (OP)
>Why not
Many do though. Plenty of people.
Most non-academics have a faith/dogma based approach to science, and even some folks in Academia fall into that category.

There is no *real* difference between a layman believing the sun Rises due to the gods because the highly educated priests told them so, and a layman believing in some strongarmed oversimplified-to-the-point-of-falsehood analogy about quantum mechanics because the most educated people told him so.

Both believe falsehoods that do not describe reality while differing to authorities.
Anonymous No.17932804
>>17932707
> this object is that it is not the object behind it or infront of it
that is no different from any other information we get from analyzing and tinkering with the same object

>That is a truth statement because it inquires into the nature of being rather than any particulars
Only if you assume metaphysical realism with universals being a real things and not mere abstractions, otherwise that's just platonic schizo babble
Anonymous No.17932812 >>17932846 >>17932851
>>17931886 (OP)
I don't worship my hammer, I build shit with it.
Anonymous No.17932841
>>17931886 (OP)
This essentially just means to worship white supremacy which created these things.
Anonymous No.17932846 >>17932886
>>17932812
Anon, making the tool spirit happy will make the hammer perform better
Anonymous No.17932851
>>17932812
When I first learned the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me.
Anonymous No.17932886
>>17932846
lmoa
Anonymous No.17932900 >>17932922
>>17931886 (OP)
Wouldn't that be revering science? Worshipping it would be an illogical waste of energy since the current scientific concensus is that science isn't a god. Your worship would net you nothing in return.

You could worship a science-themed deity, but who is getting revived/who is getting defied?

Athena is popular in pagan circles, perhaps her? Or Hermes Trismegistus
Anonymous No.17932922
>>17932900
To worship is to serve. I don't think you'd struggle finding people who obviously idolize science and at least claim they serve it.
Anonymous No.17932978
>>17932383
>Science is fake BS that says men can become women.
science doesn't say that. medical professionals (who are not scientists but make use of science) that have to weigh the pros and cons of different treatments to improve the quality of life of their patients generally agree that the best course of action is to transition; that includes medical treatment and procedures as well as a social agreement to treat these people as they want to be treated to not cause them unnecessary stress (changing the name and gender on their official documentation, calling them by their chosen name and gender even though you can clearly see their stubble and adam's apple, etc.)
bullshit identity politics have turned the whole thing into a shit show for no good reason and, yes, some angry and frustrated people love to throw around "science says" and the whole ridiculous claims about MRI scans (which are promptly forgotten when talking about differences between men and women in other contexts). they're wrong. but "science" isn't "wrong". the method is sound and it's the best way we have to deal with the world and improve our understanding of it. obviously, since we're all communicating through the result of a couple hundred years of it
ironically, things were getting progressively better for transgender people and the whole lgbtq+whatever performative virtue bullshit ruined it for them. maybe things will settle in a saner place soon. we'll see
Anonymous No.17933472
>>17931886 (OP)
You lack justification for why that would be a holy pursuit.
The idea that a Holy God created the universe could be one.
That is how Christians operated for centuries, before modern science took over, by the way.
Anonymous No.17933500 >>17933509
>>17931886 (OP)
People already tried that, it was called the age of enlightenment. While it wasn't a direct worship of science and reason, it was the result of the rising use of logic and empiricism to understand the world, as opposed to religious faith and a heavy reliance on traditions/customs. And if you're wondering why the world isn't some perfect utopia, fully realized in its ability to enact logic to the highest degree, it's because as it turns out, while the scientific method is great for understanding the world physically and empirically, it holds far less power to create lasting social structures that support the development and stability of civilization.

As it turns out, when you strip away all the "illogical" aspects of civilization, you're not left with much. While the idea of that much idealogical freedom might sound like a great place to start building a better world, the existentialists who've been grappling with that setting since the 1800s, would beg to differ. Building new social structures is hard; similar to how most revolutions end up with a dictator in the end, instead of the shining democracy the soldiers were promised, creating new foundations for society, largely ends up putting right back where we were, with a fresh coat of paint to disguise the same institutions we had before. Because those institutions were rarely about genuine religious sentiment, as much as they were about justifying the existence of the ruling class.

Hinduism is a good example of the staying power of a religious force. It's arguably the oldest continuously practiced religion in the world, and has been the driving force behind civilizations that have existed for thousands of years. It's also horrifically oppressive, has no social mobility, etc. Why has it stuck around? Because it tells people exactly where they belong in society, that it's their own fault they're there, and that in order to have a better life, they need to keep their head down, and work until they die.
Anonymous No.17933509
>>17931886 (OP)
>>17933500
So, how does science stack up by comparison? How do you organize a civilization around it? Who gets to be in charge? How do we justify disparities in life or success? The short answer is, you can't.

The longer answer involves another question. How do you quantify morality? Whether or not you agree with Christianity for example, it states as a basic a priori tenet, that human life has a certain level of value, that might not be enough to convince you, but it's enough for a lot of other people, enough people who've come together and stayed together over generations, organized around those principles/tenets. What science will always struggle with, as a foundational societal force, is establising moral facts to guide everyday life, because there's not experiment to prove life has worth, or that hurting other people is bad.

If you make pain a metric for example, and causing more pain is bad and feeling pleasure is good. If I lobotomize a man, remove his ability to feel pain, and hook him up to a morphine drip, then I'd be the most moral person who ever lived. And you might say that's obviously immoral, but then you have to justify why, going back to the same Cartesian circle that plagues the religious
Anonymous No.17934375
>>17932629
That's fine by me.
Anonymous No.17935151 >>17935202
>>17931912
God created this place and itโ€™s full of suffering. Science reduces suffering.
Anonymous No.17935169
>>17931886 (OP)
>vaxxtards be like
Anonymous No.17935174
>>17932125
Jacobins shall die by their own fruits
Anonymous No.17935176
>>17932450
War is a fact of life. Trying to immanetize the katechon is what science attempts to do
Anonymous No.17935202
>>17935151
Dr Mengele sure reduced suffering with his science :^)