Thread 17934751

What was the cause of the Second World War?

Me, I'm sorry

Jews prevented the end of WWI why couping two of the major power players who then came back and started killing each other again

>>17934751 (OP)
He was possessed by Lucifer

Meth.

>Mein Führer... the trannies have canceled J. K. Rowling on Twitter.
>Mobilize the troops. Invade Ukraine. Now!

>>17934751 (OP)
Germany made a false claim that Poles were killing Germans in Poland and used this lie as a pretense to illegally invade Poland.

>>17934836
>doesn't bring up them taking over 1/8 of eastern europe before this and nobody caring

An established hegemony attempting to protect its position against a rising rival.

Not the only reason but the main reason.

>>17934751 (OP)
Germany mistakenly thought that Britain would act like a rational agent.

Chuds chimping out.

>>17934921
It was the opposite moron. Germany believed Britain would be too pacifist to intervene because of ww1 trauma, i.e they would be passive while Germany could be aggressive, which isnt a rational response.

They knew however that France would pounce at stopping German expansionism at first opportunity, but France wouldnt go unless England went first.

>>17934751 (OP)
Purely socioeconomic factors

>>17934751 (OP)
>cause
human nature

Not easy to narrow down. But if you really do your research, like i did, and see how things are connected then the event in picrel was the main root cause

>>17934954
Committing to the war was never in Britain interest.
Going against your interest is not rational behavior.

>>17934840
It was the invasion of Poland that broke the camels back. If Germany never invaded Poland, Britian and France wouldn't be forced to declare war on Germany.

>>17934921
>make a warning publicly and privately that if Germany crosses on more line (the line being Poland) they will declare war. Germany not believing Britian would keep their word is their fault for being stupid.

>>17935029
Germany forced Britians hand.

>>17935029
War was in Germanys interest. That makes it Britains interest.
In fact, it's everyones business. You dont just start a war in Europe and pretend like its not a big deal.

>>17935010
Whops forgot picture

>>17934751 (OP)
Try to break the chains of international Jewish finance.

>>17934921
>>17935029
Kinda comedic if true. They probably went through every scenario, analizing every detail through the lens of rational game theory on all levels until exhaustion. Then came to the conclusion its safe to attack.

Enter a gambling high roller drunkard with loads of debt. The very opposite of rationality.

>>17935073
Game theory will always land you on attack

Even if like in this case means a massacre

>>17935075
Disagree, but i think i see where you are coming from.

If two rational players are trying to maximize their payoff, pre-emptive aggression is always the winning strat. But this more or less assumes a type of symmetric, zero-sum, one-shot game with nothing to lose but the game itself.
As soon as you introduce asymmetry, imbalance, the future, uneven risks or disproportionate costs, the math can stop pointing so neatly at aggression. (I talk game theory in general, not specific to the prewar situation in europe)

>>17935073
>They probably went through every scenario, analizing every detail through the lens of rational game theory on all levels until exhaustion.

Nope they didnt. and that was the point.
Hitler was deliberately moving so fast from 1938-1939 that there couldnt be any real assessment of the situation. By 1939 the British government was literally hammered with war-scares from every direction (Even the Abwehr was feeding the Dutch war-scare to Britain) that Chamberlain was pressured to do something to stabilize Europe. It wasnt just Poland who recieved military guarantees in 1939, it was virtually every state that bordered Germany and Italy, including Greece and Netherlands.

You want to see this as something positive thats on you, but Hitler literally created the conditions for war. To us ww2 seems very linear but to the people at the time 1938-1939 was extremely chaotic and no one knew what was going to happen next. Especially after the Wehrmacht entered Prague, which went to show that Hitler wouldnt let himself be restrained by anything.

>>17934925
>Chuds
Woman moment. Implying that any thinking man's life revolves around pussy to be happy.

>>17935114
>but to the people at the time 1938-1939 was extremely chaotic and no one knew what was going to happen next
Interesting

>>17935114
Wasn’t making claims (or taking sides) - I just like the image of German hyper-rational autistic planning undone by sheer irrationality. The irony’s too good not to think about, and even if not literally true, it feels like a kind of meta-truth worth thinking about and taking lessons from.

And who knows - maybe (though probably not the case) they did run the numbers and game theory pointed toward chaos as the optimal strategy, unpredictability to keep the other side frozen and unable to plan ahead or force mistakes in their responses.

Anyway, I’m just spinning what-ifs. Curious to hear more from your angle – it’s an interesting rabbit hole.

>>17935160
>I just like the image of German hyper-rational autistic planning undone by sheer irrationality.
The Germans whole game was that Britain would be too pacifist from the trauma off ww1 to intervene, as Germany carves out a hegemony in eastern and central Europe from the power vacuum left by the Austrian and Russian empire. Germany was unironically in a stronger geopolitical position post-ww1 than they had been before 1914, something which the French had figured out, but Britain did not, until it was too late.¨

So in a way, they were both acting irrationally behind a very rational ambition. The Germans gambled on Englands intentions and were wrong. Likewise the English believed German recovery would be desired and actively undermined France in processs, only to realise that Germany took full advantage of her position once recovery had been achieved.
What do I mean by this?
1. Britain pledged a military alliance with France in the Versailles treaty (as a compromise because France wanted to occupy/annex everything west of the Rhine). Britain then voided this agreement in 1921.
2. Britain scorned France for the Ruhr occupation, and heavily reduced German debt and helped pay off German debt with her own bonds.
3. Britain signed a military arms agreement with Germany which allowed Germany to re-arm beyond Versailles restriction without consulting France.
4. Britain withdrew her occupation of the Rhineland half-a decade ahead of schedule stipulated in Versailles to enable the re-militarization of Rhineland, France felt compelled to follow.
5. Britain practically left the anti-German Stresa Front which caused France to panic and search for new allies, especially with Italy which allowed Mussolini to landgrab.

This is just to name a few.

>>17935160
>the optimal strategy, unpredictability to keep the other side frozen and unable to plan ahead or force mistakes in their responses.

The thing is that this only caused Britain to go into panic-mode and creating alarmist atmosphere. The most famous war-scare came from Romania, so it wasnt just Britain who were stressing over Germanys real intentions.

Chamberlain was being grilled by the parlament for his seemingly passiveness, especially from Attlee and the Labour Party whom wanted to a confrontation with Germany already in 1938 during the Sudeten crisis. It wasnt just Germany. Italy too invaded and annexed Albania in early 1939 around the same time Germany seized Prague, which added further sense of chaos.
Chamberlain has also been done dirty in history, especially thanks to Churchill whom created the "appeasement myth" that Chamberlain was naive and foolish for trusting Hitler.
The reality is that Chamberlain was a very shrewed politician who knew what needed to be done. He couldnt confront Germany even if he wanted to. He had inherited a deeply pacifist nation that had heavily demilitarized since the end of ww1, so 1938 was more a game of attempting to outmanouver Hitler to deny him Czechoslovakia while creating grounds for confrontation. This was the premise which Munich agreement was designed on; it would corner Germany from any further territorial demands, while preparing England for war both in arms and in opinion, because if Hitler sought more territory he would be exposed as a war-mongerer, which is exactly what happened. Hitler wanted the rest of Czechia because he needed its armament and industry and gold reserve, but the Munich agreement denied him this, yet he had to sign it without seeming like a warmongerer there and then. When he took Prague anyway and went for Poland next, Chamberlain had both the arms and opinion he needed to make a stand.

So it was calculated, even if it happened during a stressful time without proper assessment.

Lebensraum and the extermination of the Slavs to replace them with the Nordic Germanic race

>>17934836
That was actually walked back.
Gleiwitz wasnt a false claim and we now know from declassified archives the Germans were right, Poles invaded Germany, not as nationals but paramilitary elements operating on behalf of the polish state (this is worse than an actual uniformed invasion btw).
https://www.unz.com/article/gleiwitz-the-false-flag-that-never-was/

anyone saying because le mustache man is brainlet

It was the final war between the national bourgeoisie and the international bourgeoisie. The international bourgeoisie finally manged to integrate the national bourgeoisie into the international system.

>>17934751 (OP)
Hitler literally wanted Lebensraum - natural resources and fertile land in the East - to make Germany immune to trade blockades and strong enough to be able to challenge USA. Germans considered the whole Central Europe "basically Germany" anyway and Poland was needed for land continuity.
All fine and dandy if it wasn't criminal and and didn't violate the basic rights of a handful of other European nations.

>>17935073
it is a little based and admirable in a way.
>the fate of the White race was gambled away by a belligerent Anglo degenerate drunkard
the legend of the White race would ultimately be a moral lesson.

>>17934954
>Germany believed
who? where? when?
Hitler? no he didnt think this.
OKH? No they didnt think that.
>>17935051
but Britain didnt keep their word, they completely folded. When two armies invaded Poland Britian only declared against one of them.

>>17935054
Who did? Who put a gun to the British command and forced them to declare war?
>>17935048
>forced
forced by who? Who put the gun to the heads of Britain and France's national leadership?
Where did it happen? What mafia thugs broke into Churchill's house and forced him to not even make his position for peace known.
Who forced Chamberlain to declare war? who forced the members of Parliament to declare war? Did someone take over the Parliament building with a submachine gun?
>>17935059
>its everyone's business
>its Britain's business
>war in Europe is a big deal
evidently not because Britain didnt care when Poland fought the USSR, when Turkey fought Britain (and won) in 1921, when Poland invaded Czechoslovakia Britain didnt care, when France invaded Germany in the Ruhr offensive Britian didnt care, when Hungary invaded Slovakia Britain didnt care.
Britain only cared when the jewish lobby started caring, that is a fact.

>>17935377
>Hitler? no he didnt think this.
Yes he did. Stop making shit up.

>>17935114
>but Hitler literally created the conditions for war.
how? Hitler didnt ask Britain to guarantee those countries and no one saw Europe as destabilized.
Wheres the instability? Germany was a stabilizing force.
>wehrmacht entered prague
after The Czech president asked them to LOL.
>be restrained by anything
Hitler literally delayed the invasion of Poland for over a week to make one last attempt at diplomacy LOOOOOOOOL.

>>17935386
>Jewish lobby
Who was in this Jewish lobby? Britian cared about Germany illegally invading other nations and taking them over. All those other wars didn't result in one nation becoming a dominating power over Europe.

>>17935390
>Germany was a stabilizing force.
>The Czech president asked them to LOL.
Kill yourself.

>Hitler literally delayed the invasion of Poland for over a week to make
More like Hitler delayed the invasion because Poland and Britain officially signed the alliance into a treaty on August 25th.
In other words, he became anxious that perhaps Britain would intervene after all.

>one last attempt at diplomacy
Why last ditch? Why must the invasion happen specifically on September 1st 1939? Why must the dispute be resolved on that date to the point that risking war with France and Britain and selling out 1/4 of Europe to the communists was necessary?
why couldnt negotations continue?

Do you understand that there must a be a cause for urgnecy?

>>17935386
>Poland fought the USSR
Part of the Russian civil war.

>Poland invaded Czechoslovakia
Part of the Russian civil war.

>Turkey fought Britain (and won) in 1921
Which British divisions fought in the Turkish civil war? What battles? Which commander? How many casualties?
Why are you so pathetic?

>France invaded Germany in the Ruhr offensive Britian didnt care
Yes they did lol. France was scorned for it by both Britain and USA, and forced to withdraw.

>Hungary invaded Slovakia Britain didnt care
Yeah they did. Germany and her allies and puppet states actions all part of Britains decision to draw a line.

>>17935259
>too pacifist
no one thought this
>carves out
Stop saying this like these are bronze age conquerors.
no one wanted to bring millions of retarded peasants into their national body.
>Germany was in a stronger position post 1918 than pre-1914
why?

>>17935475
>no one thought this
Literally only you say this isnt true.
Kill yourself.

>Stop saying this like these are bronze age conquerors.
Stop making shit up every time.

>no one wanted to bring millions of retarded peasants into their national body.
Literally did not say Germany wanted to annex everything. They wanted to bring everyone into their fold.

>>17935475
>why?
Because there were now a bunch of smaller weaker states in central and eastern Europe instead of two powerful empires.

Britain did whatever the jews told them to do

>>17935490
Nazi Germany was the first country to finance zionism.

Kinda goes hand in hand with killing 30 million white people

>>17935388
No he didnt.
>>17935401
>who
samuel untermeyer and henry strakosh, among others.
>illegally
1. what court oversees the world?
2. Britian didnt care when Poland invaded other nations, such as in 1938 when Poland invaded Czechoslovakia.
>didnt result in one nation becoming a dominating power over Europe
Germany was in danger of becoming a dominating power over Europe - because France fell so quickly, everyone forgets this: France WAS the continental Hegemon from 1918-1939.
They had a large, well drilled, advanced Sea, Air, and Land force that everyone in Europe believed was totally uncontestable save for perhaps the US.
It has always never ever been England's Cassus Belli "we cant let someone become too strong" that is hindsight speculation being retroactively read-into British foreign policy.
Looking at Britain's wars they had a lot of good reasons for the wars they fought with only a handful being 'Concert of Europe' driven.
>Britain really really wanted to fight the USSR but didnt
then they shouldnt have fought Germany either.

>>17935620
>No he didnt.

>>17935406
I am right, Hacha asked the Germans to preserve what remained of his country which saw half of it secede and no less than two foreign invasions in the previous 3 months, with the Hungarian invasion happening the day prior to Hacha going to Berlin.
>Hitler delayed the invasion due to anxiety
no, we know why he delayed the invasion, he made one final offer to Poland allow a German connection or Danzig or there would be conflict.
What is your source for Hitler "became anxious"?
>why last ditch
because Poland was mobilizing and from what we see it looks like the Germans caught the thin end of a Polish invasion of Danzig and multiple Polish incursions across the Polish-German border.
The Poles had already fired upon Germans near the Polish German border. The Poles were in a hostile defensive posture and if Hitler didnt invade when he did many more Germans and Poles would have died.
>selling out
When did Hitler own 1/4 of Europe to sell? You cant sell something you dont own.
>why couldnt negotiations continue
Germany's position would only get weaker and Poland's position stronger, it speaks volumes Hitler even took the risk to make one last diplomatic effort.
>there must be a cause for urgency
1. no, there doesnt need to be a cause for urgency because if Hitler had pulled the trigger in 1945 like him and OKH planned you would say "well why didnt he wait until 1955 huh???" you can always call anything urgent, the fact Hitler didnt invade Poland in 1937 when Germany had an extreme advantage over France and Britain in military spending readiness and military size should tell you Hitler was if anything too prudent and patient.
2. The cause was Poland's mobilization firing on Germans near the border, that is why it has an appearance of "urgency".

>>17935631
>he made one final offer to Poland allow a German connection or Danzig or there would be conflict.
What right does Germany have to demand land off of a sovereign nation-state? "Give me land or we will invade you" isn't exactly what I would call a "stabilizing force" for Europe. I call that a bully.

>>17935620
>samuel untermeyer and henry strakosh, among others.

Why do you say "among others"?
You literally only have those two.
Two jews, among 1000 Anglo-Saxons who also voiced their willingness to confront Germany.
You parade Strakosh and Untermeyer like two banners. It's pathetic.

>what court oversees the world?
Germany literally signed Kelogg pact that outlawed wars of aggresssion. Ofc nazis like you views treaties like a scrap of paper, and then wonder why ww2 broke out.
Da joooss.

>Britian didnt care when Poland invaded other nations, such as in 1938 when Poland invaded Czechoslovakia.
How many died in the Polish-Czech war of 1938?

>Germany was in danger of becoming a dominating power over Europe
Correct.

>France WAS the continental Hegemon from 1918-1939.
I dont think hegemony means what you think it means.
France did not dare move on Germany unless Britain backed her. The complete opposite definiton of hegemony.

>They had a large, well drilled, advanced Sea, Air, and Land force that everyone in Europe believed was totally uncontestable save for perhaps the US.
Meds.

>Looking at Britain's wars they had a lot of good reasons for the wars they fought with only a handful being 'Concert of Europe' driven.
Oh so wars that started because of virtually the same reason as their war with Germany are now "good reasons". Looks like we're moving in the right direction with you.

>then they shouldnt have fought Germany either.
The world doesnt orbit around Hitler tho.
Also, can you make an argument without using hindsight?

>>17935422
>Russian Civil War
Poland was gobbling up land after the Russian civil war had ended lol.
>Russian civil war of 1938
L O L
I am going to assume you are new to these threads. About a year ago I introduced everyone to the Polish invasion of Czechoslovakia and annexation of Zaolzie in 1938.
>which divisions
Was Britain a belligerent in the Turkish War of independence? Yes or no? Yes.
They lost.
>b-but they werent trying
well that only proves my case, the British had a vested interest in keeping the Turks down, war was brought to Europe (again) and Britain backed down.
They can back down, they should have taken a more neutral and less hostile approach to Germany.
>France was scorned
so what? No military action was taken against them by Britian.
If Britain has a problem with Germany the answer is diplomatic pressure and sanctions, not escalating a regional conflict that would have concluded in 35 days into a globe spanning war lasting over half a decade.
>Britain cared about Slovakia
and yet did absolutely nothing at all when Hacha went to Basil Newton and asked for a guarantee or even a second conference or just for Britain to advocate for them, Britain absolved themselves of the situation entirely and even told Hacha to go to Hitler if he wanted to speak about Czech-Hungarian relations.

>>17935631
>I am right
LMAO

>Hacha asked the Germans to preserve what remained of his country
According to Hitler.
And only Hitler.

Which is funny because the order of the Wehrmacht to enter Czechia had been given before Hacha arrived, hence why Hacha was pressed to sign the documents there and then, which no sane man would do otherwise.
Your nazi propaganda cope will never get around this fact.

>half of it secede and no less than two foreign invasions in the previous 3 months
Ok so something that happened 3 months ago is so urgent that he must sign his country away within a couple of hours instead of consulting with hmmmm his parlament, his cabinet, his legal experts? Hmmmm
Your nazi propaganda cope will never get around this fact.

>with the Hungarian invasion happening the day prior to Hacha going to Berlin.
Except they were threatening to invade Slovakia (under Hitlers permission, otherwise Hitler would have told Hungary to F off). So its not even related to Czechia, thus doesnt warrant the urgency for Hacha to sign his country away in just a few hours.
Your nazi propaganda cope will never get around this fact.

>>17935481
>only you say this
Youre the only one making the claim that Hitler was imagining Britain unable to fight.
A claim that remains unsubstantiated.
No one in Germany thought Britian was unable to fight or was a pacificist nation.
>stop making shit up
I am not, but your response to someone posting something you disagree with is resorting to slander and bad faith strawmen?
>wanted to bring everyone into their fold
based on what? They were irredentists who wanted to restore Germans and German property to Germany.
also, is it really that bad if Germany forms the EU 70 years earlier? Was that worth Britain's existence? after which they would join the EU then leave it then try to get back into it LOL
>>17935485
That doesnt make Germany stronger relative to France and those states were much more dangerous as independent actors who could bargain on their own as opposed to being forced to play great power games in an imperial standoff.
small rump states are inherently less stable than empires, it was a vulnerability for Germany if anything that between Germany and the USSR were a bunch of pushovers.

>>17935627
Thank you for the aggregate of Reddit tier responses with factual inaccuracies such as "no response" when both Britain and France responded to the Rhineland and Anschluss with diplomatic hostility (Cordon Sanitare) as well as the push for a pre-emptive war against Germany right after Munich.
Munich itself was completely out of line.
Who oversees German-Czech relations? Germans and Czechs or the British?
Evidently the British thought they had the right to trample the sovereignty of Central Europe.

>>17935259
>>17935290
Got nothing to say besides thanks a lot for taking time to respond and writing this. Highly appreciated my friend, thats why i am here

>>17935636
>What right does Germany have
Their people owned the land, lived on the land for centuries, and had been unfairly and unjustly forced to abandon home and estate, they were then greatly mistreated by the Polish majority.
>sovereign nation state
Poland was a military junta, a carve out from Versailles, it was an anti-democratic highly oppressive pseudo apartheid state where Balts, non-Polish slavs, and Germans had to take abuse from the Polish nation.
Ending an aggressive, revanchist, soft-apartheid, military dictatorship that barely kept the veneer of democracy sounds rather stabilizing to me.
Just from a Western Democratic perspective looking at the board in 1939, Poland was clearly and obviously the bad guy.

>>17935631
>no, we know why he delayed the invasion, he made one final offer to Poland allow a German connection or Danzig or there would be conflict.
Nope he literally delayed the invasion because earlier Britain had only made a verbal guarantee to Poland which Hitler believed was just a bluff, but on August 25th Britain signed it into official treaty which made Hitler hesitate on whether he had misjudged Britains willingess to fight.
Your bullshit is just cope that you've made up on the spot. Hitler did not come with any new offers after 25th of August so your claim makes no fucking sense.

>What is your source for Hitler "became anxious"?
Literally every single historian. Moron
We can start with Richard Overy

>because Poland was mobilizing
Poland did not mobilize until the last 24 hours before the invasion.
They held back because Britain literally demanded them not to, as it could be used by Germany as a pretext for war.
Sorry nazi chud but nothing you say will get around this very known fact

>multiple Polish incursions across the Polish-German border.
Lmao

>Polish invasion of Danzig
Ah yes, your famous "invasion", i.e extra 100 men at Westerplatte, after Germany had raised 7 million wehrmacht soldiers

>The Poles had already fired upon Germans near the Polish German border.
Lmao

>When did Hitler own 1/4 of Europe to sell?
Molotov Ribbentrop pact
Something you nazi chuds cant deny

>Germany's position would only get weaker and Poland's position stronger,
Literally your fantasy. States can co-exist in peace, but since youre a fascist you dont understand this. That's why you must be purged.
And no, im not influenced by the jews. This is what I believe after endless debates with you. I believe you're generally psychotic, which actually makes me understand Britains position even more and why ww2 broke out

>it speaks volumes Hitler even took the risk to make one last diplomatic effort.
If he was a champion of diplomacy he would have just let diplomacy continue

>>17935665
What right does Germany have to dictate how a sovereign nation dictates its internal policies?

>>17935648
>Youre the only one making the claim that Hitler was imagining Britain unable to fight.
Except we have endless proof that Hitler did not believe Britain would intervene even if he knew he was treading dangerously on their foreign interest.

>No one in Germany thought Britian was unable to fight or was a pacificist nation.
The entire German government believed Britain wouldnt stomach a war and would just let Poland slide.

>I am not
Yes you are.
You always make shit up and hope nobody will disprove you. Your entire debate method relies on this strategy.

>based on what?
Every historian who ever written on the outbreak of ww2.
Even your zoomer faggot on youtube admits it.
You are literally the only one in the whole fucking world who says otherwise.

>They were irredentists who wanted to restore Germans and German property to Germany.
Ah yes the famous Czechia full of Germans (not) and ripped from Germany in Versailles (not)
Funny how you always forget that little part despite endless debates, its like you do it intentionally because youre a subversive rat, worse than the jews you accuse.
Even Memel had a German minority.

Also they did strongarm the rest of Eastern Europe into their fold, and they literally tried to do with Poland before they decided on invasion. Stop deny it.

> is it really that bad if Germany forms the EU 70 years earlier?
Personally? I dont care. But this isnt about me.
But from Britains perspective? Absolutely. Because its a EU completely dominated by Germany. They oppoed Napoleon for the same reason. France couldnt be the head of Europe.

>Was that worth Britain's existence?
Was it worth Germany existence?
Why do you always remove all responsiblity and agency from Germany.
They created this. All Britain wanted to do was grill.

>small rump states are inherently less stable than empires,
We get it, you're a fascist. Kill yourself.

>>17935638
>why do you say among others
because there are others such as bernard baruch, ben gurion early on, netanyahu Sr (yes that one), chaim weizmann, and the British themselves literally said this, Churchill in the Peel Commission and after the Moyne assassination, and Eden and Mark Sykes two decades before, they all said British politics was basically steered by jewish influence.
We see the same thing in America today, it is on (You) to prove we arent seeing exactly what we are seeing.
>two jews among 1000 anglo saxons
America is a country that is a vassal state of israel, despite there being many thousands more Americans for every two jews holding government office in America.
>Kellogg pact outlawed wars of aggression
and there were no wars of Aggression save for Poland and the former Entente.
It was also just a retarded pact which Western signatories themselves ignored. It served as little more than ladder kicking and a form of criminalizing a challenge to the reigning powers.
It has the inherently escalatory effect of making ALL wars all or nothing die-hard affairs instead of short and sharp.
Think of two men in a barfight against each other vs one man in a bar fight against a police officer. when you bring in this all or nothing stipulation of criminalization you make it such that wars will never be concluded cleanly, you either defeat the entire police department or your life is over, this is a terrible way to handle geopolitical affairs which necessarily has friction baked into it.

political theorists at the time knew this and said it was a retarded pact.
not to mention everyone ignored it, including the United States (Banana Wars).

>>17935656
>Reddit tier responses
I literally got banned from reddit for being a "nazi".
Im telling you to fuck off because you never bring anything new to the discussion. It's boring and exhausting. Mostly boring. Why do you even bother?

>factual inaccuracies
You dont deserve anything else. What am I supposed to do? Having the exact same discussion word-for-word that we had yesterday and the day before and the week before and the month before?
Autism?

>the push for a pre-emptive war against Germany right after Munich.
preparing is not the same as "pre-emptive war".
Ofc you're a fascist so you cant tell the difference.
But the guarantee to Poland was meant to first and foremost deter Germany from attacking.
However if Germany DID attack, at least France and England would be ready.

These are two very distinct objectives, but serve the same purpose: Germany needs to stop expanding and threaten war in every negoation, like they did with Austria, Sudeten, Czechia, Memel, Danzig.

>Munich itself was completely out of line.
Cope.

>Who oversees German-Czech relations?
States dont exist in a vacuum.
You are yourself aware of the congress of Vienna and Concert of Europe, so why do you pretend that states being involved is something suddenly new and alien? It still isnt moron. It's always everyones business.

Also you're the one to talk. Germany decided Finlands fate between them and Russia. By what right?
They also threatened war over French negotiations with Morocco in 1912. By what right?
Oh because thats how the world works.
But you're a fascist who imagine that the world should be a jungles-law.

>Evidently the British thought they had the right to trample the sovereignty of Central Europe.
Literally half of Europe wanted to fight Germany over Sudetenland you moron. Especially France and USSR.
The German generals had an agreement to shoot Hitler if he ordered the attack.

But you only focus on Britain and pretend they were the only ones who were involved.

Anyway I gotta go now. Not gonna spend hours here talking about the same shit we talked about 5000 times before.

I know its not a problem for you though. You literally have autism and im generally worried about you.

>>17935715
>>17935710
>>17935627
du är en förrädare mot det germanska folket

>>17935638
>how many died
as many as would have died if Britian had chosen to de-escalate between Poland and Germany or better yet not rip people and property from a sovereign nation and just hand it to an aggressive, hostile, and racially repressive warlord state.
Also, moving the goalposts, that was an overt aggressive military movement that lead to an annexation of territory in an act of naked revanchism.
Britian and France did nothing to Poland.
>Germany was
Wasnt*

>France did not dare move
dare to. it is 'dare to' move on.
ESL.
>complete opposite
Hegemony isnt a question of national will you ape.
Hegemony means who is uncontestable.
France, in 1939, could contest Germany, and France was in appearance much stronger than Germany.
If France and Britian hadnt entered the war, Poland was forced to give up land to the USSR and Germany, people would look back and say "why didnt France do anything? they could have easily rolled over Germany solo".
France had in many ways better tanks and nearly 2x the tanks of Germany, more advanced aircraft, more numerous well trained pilots, a significantly stronger Navy, a much better army (on paper).
At no one point until Germany and France actually fought did Germany appear stronger than France.
Germany can not therefore be a hegemon.
>meds
cope.
You only say this because France fell so quickly.
>virtually the same reason
no. you are speculating as to Britain's reasoning for its previous wars. That comes from historical compartmentalization, it ignores the contemporary reality of the times.
You do this, as many do, because it makes it an easy to remember narrative.
>world doesnt orbit around Hitler
evidently it does because every country on the planet with a jewish lobby (France, Britain, the US, USSR) took a direct interest in German affairs.

>>17935644
The order to enter Bohemia wasnt given prior to Hacha's arrival lol.
>hence why Hacha was pressed
Hacha was pressed because the Hungarians had invaded.
>which no man would do
speculation.
>nazi propaganda cope
there it is, no respect for History.
If its from a German source just assume its untrue - total bad faith.
>three months ago
The Slovaks seceded and the Hungarians invaded the Day Hacha left.
>Hacha's country being invaded isnt related to Hacha seeking protection for his country
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

>>17935729
>France, in 1939, could contest Germany, and France was in appearance much stronger than Germany.
France isnt a hegemony for that reason retard.
Thailand isnt a hegemony just because it's objectively stronger than Cambodia.
That's not what hegemony means.

Not even China would be described as a hegemony. They are a regional power. They are stronger than Japan, but they are not a hegemony.
Learn the definition of hegemony before you start throwing the word around with the most loose and self-made interpretations. You're just making a fool out of yourself.

France couldnt be a hegemony during the interwar period because to be such means they set the rules over other states, something France was unable to do. They literally evacuated from the Ruhr because of international pressure, whch wouldnt be compelled to do if they were a hegemony.

>>17935729
>evidently it does because every country on the planet with a jewish lobby (France, Britain, the US, USSR) took a direct interest in German affairs.
Everyone who oppose German ambitions is a jew. Got it.
You're clinically insane btw.

>>17935737
>The order to enter Bohemia wasnt given prior to Hacha's arrival lol.
Yes it was xD
The only one who says it wasnt is YOU.

>Hacha was pressed because the Hungarians had invaded.
Why is Hacha pressed because of a Slovakia? Are you stupid?

>speculation.
Ok name one man who signed his country away in a couple of hours, who wasnt doing it at gunpoint.

Thats actually how Britain and France aquired most of their colonial empire. It was called "Gunboat diplomacy". They had the local leader sign the treaty to become a protectorate (if they didnt their city would be bombarded by the navy), and then the British/French/Dutch could wave the signed treaty as a sign of moral mutual agreement.

>there it is, no respect for History.
All you do is lying and making shit up tho.

>If its from a German source just assume its untrue - total bad faith.
Should we take everything Churchill ever said and wrote at face value and simply accept as undeniable truth? Or should be listen to what the thousands of historians from every corner of the world for the past 80 years have all found on it?

>The Slovaks seceded and the Hungarians invaded the Day Hacha left.
Why is Slovakia even relevant? We are talking about Czechia. I can tell this is literally your only argument so you're going to try to milk it as hard as possible to make it relevant that Hacha MUST sign his country away that HOUR because the urgnecy was just too great, like millions of Czechs would die in the morning if he didnt sign the documents.

Btw you are literally thr only person who believes this and finds it rational and logical.

>>17934756
>Me, I'm sorry
>>17934756

We all make mistake anon. What is important is resolve to do better next time.

Also, a hobby helps--picrel

>>17934751 (OP)
A toxic brew of German resentment from Versailles, Hitler's expansionist madness, and the catastrophic failure of appeasement by cowardly Western powers. They handed him chunks of Europe hoping he'd stop, empowering him to start the deadliest war in history. Weakness invites aggression.

>>17935666
>Nope he literally delayed the invasion because earlier Britain had only made a verbal guarantee to Poland which Hitler believed was just a bluff, but on August 25th Britain signed it into official treaty which made Hitler hesitate on whether he had misjudged Britains willingess to fight.
speculation.
Furthermore, this isnt "anxiety" if Hitler is engaging in diplomacy in a last ditch effort to avoid war with Britain, this is evidence against the case that Hitler was some kind of aggressive conqueror chomping at the bit to get into a fight.
You are trying to portray it as Britains strength causing le big bad to give pause but thats not even what happened and what actually did happen which your argument doesnt refute is that Hitler was making good faith diplomatic efforts right up to the actual declaration of war itself.
>your bullshit
everything I am saying is based on the sources and what actually happened.
What you're saying is post-hoc speculation trying to explain why things happened.
If you can not even get what actually happened you shouldnt even attempt to explain why they happened.
>Hitler did not come with any new offers
You dont need new offers you fucking monkey. He wanted to give Poland one last off-ramp and chance to de-escalate.
How many times have the US and Iran met? 6 I think 7 times now? Neither has changed their position.
People meet - its called diplomacy.
>historians
who cares what people who used to think the sun revolved around the earth think? The primary sources are what matter.
Stop outsourcing your thinking to "whoever agrees with me at the moment"
>Poland did not mobilize until the last 24 hours
No, Poland did not fully mobilize until the last 24 hours. They were placed on alert and began moving troops as early as July.
They reached a state of readiness by mid-August.
>nazi chud
You are obviously arguing in bad faith.
>lmao
cope, We now know Gleiwitz wasnt a false flag, Ron Unz is never wrong.

>>17935666
>famous invasion
There was a time when the German invasion of Poland was only 1 man.
Poland was in the process of moving men and heavy weapons into Danzig in both the Westerplatte and the Post Office.
>Molotov Ribbentrop pact
I ask again, when did Hitler own 1/4 of Europe?
The Molotov Ribbentrop pact saw no Germans giving up land they controlled to the USSR.
>states can co-exist in peace
evidently slavs can not, 100% of wars in Europe post-WWII have been in the slavic parts of Europe, these people literally can not have peace.
>youre a fascist and must be purged because you are a cartoon villain
staggering level of intellectual discourse, all in good faith I'm sure.
>he would have let diplomacy continue
if the Poles wanted peace, they should have surrendered.

>>17935673
The same right all nations have, an obligation to protect their own.
>>17935687
>Except we have endless proof that Hitler did not believe Britain would intervene even if he knew he was treading dangerously on their foreign interest.
post it.
>believed Britain wouldnt stomach a war
[citation needed]
>make shit up
I have substantiated literally everything I have said.
For months you said "there was no violation of Versailles by Poland" then we show you Danzig and you concede.
For months you say "Germany didnt offer peace" then we show you the Sweden deal and you concede.
For weeks you said "Hitler didnt ask for peace on day 2" then we show you the account of Mussolini and Hitler according to a Romanian statesmen present they did and you concede.

See how this works?
You are constantly backpedaling because you are an ideological ultra nationalist with an ethnic grudge against Germans.
Its ironic that everything you accuse the Germans of - you are.
>its just you
THEN POST PROOF
>full of Germans
"Czechia" isnt really a thing you fucking moron. Its Bohemia, Moravia, Sudete, and Silesia and they ALL had German people living in them and were previously filled with German property, businesses, and estates.
>forget that little part
no one forgets that Central Europe is more than just Germans, however this idea that a majority population can tyrannize a minority is just because theyre more numerous is absurd, and brown coded, and extremely jewish.
>subversive rat
projection.
>Memel had a German minority
Plurality actually, the largest block of people in Memel identified as outright German or Baltic German adjacent. Why even lie about this? Its on wikipedia.
>was it worth Germany's existence
Yes, because if Germany won theyd still exist.
Which leaves us with the question, why did Britian use their victory for self erasure LOL??
No one removes agency from Germany, you do that with Britain when you say "forced".
Germany tried for decades to reunite with East Prussia.

>>17935687
>youre a fascist
Being objective isnt fascism you retarded chimp.
Fascism isnt even what the Germans had, they had National Socialism.

Youre one of two things, either a slavic or jewish ultranationalist with an ethnic grudge against Germans or an ignorant shitlib who hates Germany because they were the anti-thesis of the spiteful mutant and you take that personally.
This is why you are nothing but dishonest and uncharitable and every argument you make against my character like every argument you make at all is rife with bad faith, a projection onto me of yourself because you yourself being so ideologically driven can not fathom why someone would come to a conclusion different than your own so therefore anyone who opposes your viewpoint must be inherently working some ulterior motive like the rehabilitation of racism or whatever the fuck you think is happening.

You are an actual subversive you wont even tell us about yourself, where you are from, what kind of political views you have. Though we can infer you are likely a Western Liberal, a jew, or a slavic nationalist.
so which one is it? Tell us about yourself? Youre so interested in me.
Tell us about (You).

>>17935710
You got banned from Reddit because youre an insufferable retard.
>never bring anything new
I am literally the only person doing any research whatsoever.
These threads would die in 30 replies without me.
You didnt know Hitler made 200 peace offers.
You didnt know Hitler made a peace offer on day fucking 2 before Britian even entered the war.
You didnt know Poland actually did violate The League of Nations stipulation and Treaty of Versailles with their movement of men into Danzig, fortification of the Westerplatte, and movement of heavy weapons into the Post Office.
You didnt know Poland invaded Czechoslovakia.
You didnt even know who Hacha was until last year.
You didnt know Hacha met with Hitler, in the first threads we had you said Hitler just invaded Czechoslovakia, you didnt know Hacha and Hitler had met.
You didnt know Britain actually did have a massive jewish lobby which Churchill himself affirms in the Peel Commission and the investigation into the Moyne assassination.
You had never read the Munich agreement until I posted it.

You just dont know anything and these threads are me telling you things that refute the orthodox narrative and you saying "nuh uh" and frantically trying to shoehorn-explain everything back into the containment zone of "Britain good Hitler bad".

>>17935710
>exact same discussion
You refusing to align with the evidence is a waste of your time, so why dont you stop obstinately resisting reality and accept the facts? Hitler wasnt some great villain of history, Hitler wasnt even bad.
Yeah you were lied to.
Yeah the ugly nazi chuds with tattoos were right.
Maybe they dont know why theyre right, but theyre still right.
Hitler actually did nothing wrong.
jews really were an influential minority in the UK and US.
Poles really were belligerent violent apes (much like they are today).
>preparing
No, I didnt mean preparing, I meant a pre-emptive war. France literally asked around about a joint invasion of Germany.
They werent saying "prepare" they sent out diplomatic feelers to Poland, Romania, and the USSR asking if they would join France in an invasion of Germany.
Again, you didnt know this because you dont actually know anything.
>youre a fascist
and here we go with the "youre not correct, youre just swindling me".
No, I am correct, I am telling you the truth, its not a fascist conspiracy, I am just correct.
>needs to stop expanding
maybe they shouldnt have taken Germans out of Germany and German property out of Germany?
Thats not expansion, that is restoration.
>threaten war in every negotiation
Didnt threaten the Italians, or the French, or the British, or even the Poles until 1939.
War was a last resort from more than a decade of diplomatic efforts.
>Austria
there was no threat of war
>Sudete
again no threat of war
>Bohemia
no threat of war
>Memel
the threat against Lithuania was literally written on a napkin and no one actually knows what was said.
>Danzig
the only time war was used in the bargaining.

A country shouldnt have to bargain for the right to protect its own people.

>>17935710
It was novel and antagonistic to interfere in another's sphere of influence.
If the USSR began putting missiles on an Island next to the United States, like say Cuba, the United States would justifiably take military action against that Island.
Better yet, if NATO began expanding into a State adjacent to Russia and setting up platforms for medium range ballistic missiles, Russia would justifiably take action to prevent that. This isnt fascism, neither of these are fascist countries.
This is just how geopolitics works. It is inherently aggressive to interfere in another's sphere of influence like what Britain did over Sudete.
>Germany decided Finland's fate
really? When did Germany run the Finnish state? when was Hitler the chancellor of Finland?
did Hitler declare the Winter War? Was Hitler there when they signed the peace accords?
Seens it doesnt involve Hitler at all.
>Germany in 1912
that was wrong but that wasnt Hitler nor was it even Weimar Germany.
>youre a fascist who imagines the world should be
>should be
The World IS jungle law.
Nations are inherently in conflicts of interest and there is inherently friction. Land, People, Capital, Time, its all finite and States do what they can with the resources they have.

The most moral states use force as a last resort and take every de-escalation they can.
Germany was such a state under Hitler.
>you focus on Britian
Britain is responsible for turning down the generous peace terms and escalating it into a world war.
Britain must take the Lion's share of the blame, fitting.

The most obvious answer is that Germans are a race of murderous psychopaths. Even today if Americans pull out their armed troops from Germany, they will start to kill children in gas chambers and provoke wars like THE NEXT DAY.

>>17935715
>excuses self from having to actually defend their "arguments"
very cool.
>>17935750
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony
France fits the definition of a continental hegemon being unrivaled and literally able to enforce their will on Germany through martial force during the interbellum years.
That is a hegemonic exercise.
>international pressure
Thats not why, they had managed to reach a settlement with Germany and they had accomplished their goal of the material and financial reparations continuing to flow.
international elements may have assisted in this, but France wasnt leaving emptyhanded, they did in fact continue to extract from Germany.
>>17935753
>everyone who oppose German ambitions is a jew
no one said this except you.

>>17935765
>it was
then you have no trouble posting a source such as German marching orders?
The only time someone tried to provide evidence it was German movements into Silesia, not Bohemia.
>Why is Hacha pressed because of a Slovakia
What do you mean? Hacha's country was disintegrating.
The Poles took Cieszyn, the Slovaks seceded, the Hungarians invaded.
How are these things not pressing especially the latter two which conspicuously preceded Hacha leaving for Berlin.
>it was at gunpoint because I said so
lol
It wasnt at gunpoint and his country wasnt "signed away".
They still brokered their own economic policy with foreign countries, they had more autonomy than Austria.
This wasnt some grand oppression of Czechs, it has been painted that way by history because obviously no one is going to say "yeah we fucking loved Hitler" while the Red Army is actually occupying them and now when NATO and its jews have said Hitler is literally worse than the devil.
If there was no stigma affixed to Hitler, Czechs would use Hacha meeting with Hitler as a reason why they should rejoin Germany TODAY.
>NOOOO CZECHS HATE GERMANS
please re-read what I wrote before you post this predictable response.
It wasnt gunboat diplomacy.

Things you personally dont like are not defacto lies and "making shit up".

What evidence would you need to see to admit Hitler didnt actually do anything wrong?

>>17935765
>we should take everything churchill ever said and wrote at face value
should we? We should have an enlightened view of Churchill.
I personally think we should give him credit where its due, especially when he says Britain is run by a jewish lobby lmao and thats why the Moyne assassination was suppressed by the jewish media of Britain (Churchill's own words not mine or Hitler's).
>listen to the people who werent there
nah. Court History is silly. We should trust the primary sources over the court historians.
>Why is Slovakia even relevant
You are aware Slovakia and "Czechia" were the same country right?
Czechoslovakia was one country. One country, Hacha was the president of the Czechs, and the Slovaks. Both of them.
Slovakia the region was under the jurisdiction of Hacha and his government, you are aware of this right?
>HACHA MUST
no one said he must.
He chose to.
>that HOUR
he took a fucking nap before meeting with Hitler lol.
>literally the only person
you keep saying this.
1. its not true, there are many others who say this but you dont know this because you dont do any research and so never encounter heterodox narratives.
2. its completely irrelevant if its "just me" saying this. I am still right independent of how popular my viewpoint is.

>>17936049
given how slavs and jews have behaved, I dont blame the Germans.

Germans were being killed in former territories of the Prussian Empire that was given to Poland.

>>17934751 (OP)
Ribbentrop
this retard to the last second assured Hitler that UK will stay neutral

>>17934761
This post is uniquely good. It is both truth and accurate.

>>17934751 (OP)
Stalin's insatiable greed for conquering free nations and sowing the poisonous seeds of communism in the nation's social fabric.

>>17934751 (OP)
Molotov-Ribbentrop pact

>>17934751 (OP)
How to not get backstabbed

Identify Brutus

>>17936004
>protect their own.
They aren't "their own" they are citizens of Poland and thus not under the jurisdiction of German laws.

>>17934751 (OP)
black sea oilfields because oil shortage

>>17934751 (OP)
Some arab from Algeria once told me the jews mindcontrolled Hitler (using the same technology they now use to make arabs committ terror attacks) into starting WW2 and genociding them in order to justify creating Israel

>>17935856
Also Germany's frustration due to its small number of colonies in comparison to other Euro powers

>>17935115
Its true though.
>>17935665
>Their people owned the land, lived on the land for centuries, and had been unfairly and unjustly forced to abandon home and estate
Tough shit. Not a justification for war.
>but they were mean to me!!!
Two wrongs don't make a right :)

>>17934751 (OP)
The eternal kraut
he paid for it dearly tho so don't worry

>>17936004
>YOUR NATION DOESN'T EXIST
>A GERMAN WAS LIVING THERE SO IT'S ALL OURS
>IF YOU DON'T AGREE WE ARE GOING TO BOMB YOU
>WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS I SWEAR IT'S DA JOOOOOOOS

>>17937412
Totalen krieg lol

>>17936087
Fake news

>>17936169
'boonked
https://historyspeaks.substack.com/p/was-the-second-world-war-stalins