Thread 17935335

Well /his/, let's try to figure out who it is.

>>17935336
Saved

>>17935339
now save this

>>17935339
Now save this

Only suggestion that explains both the 666 and 616 ms. variants is Nro(n) Qsr - i.e., Nero Caesar.

>>17935335 (OP)
As >>17935650 said, it's Nero. Incidentally it's a pet peeve of mine how often people think the number of the beast is "six six six," i.e. three sixes. But no, it's specifically six hundred and sixty-six.

>>17935335 (OP)
>devil

>>17935335 (OP)
Vladimir Putin (Russian President) – Why?

> Blasphemous Authority
Fosters a cult of personality, portraying himself as Russia’s "savior" with near-divine status in state propaganda.

> Global Influence & Conquest
Seeks imperial restoration (Ukraine war, Soviet nostalgia), challenging Western (Christian-influenced) order.

> Deception & False Miracles
Master of disinformation, manipulates media, stages political "miracles" (e.g., sham elections, staged loyalty displays).

> Persecution of Believers
Suppresses dissent (jailing critics), targets Ukrainian Orthodox Christians, allies with anti-Christian regimes.

> "666" Symbolism?
Some numerologists link him to the "Beast" (e.g., his rise in ’99, reign length), though this is highly speculative.

> Opposition to Christian Values
Promotes ultranationalism, violence, and corruption, opposing mercy, truth, and humility.

>>17935335 (OP)
Don't forget the Beast is accompanied by the False Prophet and the Ten Kings who have not yet received kingdoms.

>>17935973
It can't be Putin because Putin has reigned in Russia for over 7 years.

>>17935973
>>17936315
Doesn't the Beast also have to be universally loved by everyone, regardless of beliefs? Putin is def. not loved by everyone, only by some /pol/tards maybe

>>17935335 (OP)
>calculate the number of the beast
>for it is the number of a man
>and the number is 666

6 is associated with idealism, high expectations, and the search for harmony and beauty. It is also associated with the search for leadership and authority in relationships

3 stands for harmony, perfection, and new life. It is closely linked to the concept of movement and giving, often symbolized by a rich man giving alms to a poor man.

tripple 6 is the concept of the new world order, where you will own nothing and be happy, as the top tier idealism of no ownership and a redistribution of the rich man giving to the poor man (subscription based living, technocrats)
The beast is a system, universally loved by everyone, the false prophet has yet to come, it is not klaus schwab, he was just the initiator. the false prophet is the one who will implement it, likely a billionaire technocrat or a president who is promising change. the ten kings are the ten nations who are being promised the beast.
most likely europe.

There is no other Head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ: nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God.

>>17935650
Nero was dead when Revelation was written

>>17936553
As noted above this interpretation is to be regarded as totally impossible because it is impossible in the original language; the number is not six-six-six, it's chi-xi-sigma (Greek numerals for six hundred and sixty six).
>>17935650
>>17935937
Besides the fact Nero was quite dead for a few decades when the book was written there are other reasons to reject the interpretation. We must recall that the number of the beast is also a mark without which one could not buy or sell and with which one is certainly damned to hell, which on its face would fit quite well with the Roman libellus, however the libellus was an institution of Decius and not Nero. It is hard to find any way in which Nero required a mark of his citizens in the way the beast does. The interpretation is also completely inconsistent with our wider hermeneutics, no other verse of the entire New Testament, not even of the Book of Revelation, do we interpret numerologically, nor should we. Numbers are a very prevalent feature of the Revelation, and we always interpret them as symbolic representations of an idea rather than having numerological significance; the elect are said to be 144,000, but this is obviously a symbol of their totality, the reign of Christ is said to be 1,000, but this obviously represents the entirety of His reign, indeed, He has already been reigning for 2,000 years. Nor do we begin to calculate such things as the number of heads or the number of seals with gematria.

(cont.)

>>17935650
>>17935937
>>17936717
Insofar as the number is interpreted to be Nero we could only understand it as his office rather than his person, i.e. the ruler of Rome. And when we do take in the totality of biblical evidence we find there can be no better candidate for the beast than the pope of Rome, and the candidate for the mark is transubstantiation, since a certain test was imposed by Rome during the Reformation in which the consecrated host would be presented to the prisoner and they would be asked "is this the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ"? And anyone who answered "no" was burned at the stake. Thus she made herself drunk with the blood of the saints.

Also, the fact Nero matches both variants is meaningless because only one can be original. If we suppose the original reading is 666 for example (as I do) it means the alternative of 616 is totally irrelevant to the meaning of the text.

>>17936717
>Nero was quite dead for a few decades when the book was written
Nero Redivivus was a popular belief in the eastern provinces though. As a sort of mirror image to the second coming, it really makes a lot of sense as an implicit part of the Revelation narrative

>>17936743
The beast as Nero Redivivus would imply the Revelation is a false prophecy, would it not?

>>17936787
Only if you think Nero won't return.

>>17936363
Yes, at least initially.

>>17936553
the ten kings are people, not just nations

The Beast will not be known until later, not so with the Ten Kings.

>>17936612
The main problem with this interpretation is that there have been well over 250 popes. Antichrist only comes 8 times and the majority of those incarnations are already past.

>>17935335 (OP)
youve got it backwards
the number represents the man; the man does not represent a number.
anyways, every barcode ever is printed with "666" as an identification code.
so, essentially, the number will be used BY the man, and thus it is "his number"
imagine a barcode tattoo mark given in people's hands/foreheads.

>>17936798
woahhhhhhh

>>17937518
If you accept Jesus will return there is no particular reason to doubt Nero. Everyone will be resurrected anyway but Nero having a cooler narrative seems totally reasonable

>>17937504
The office of the papacy itself rather than any particular person of the pope is the Antichrist.

>>17937578
This interpretation is contrary to the Bible. Antichrist is a particular person.

>>17935335 (OP)
>>17935650
Correct. The two historical Antichrists are Antiochus IV and Nero. And perhaps also Hitler.

>>17937746
Where does it say that?

>>17937754
Revelation 17: 9-10
9 Here is a clue for one who has wisdom. The seven heads represent seven hills upon which the woman sits. They also represent seven kings:
10 five have already fallen, one still lives, and the last has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a short while.
11 The beast that existed once but exists no longer is an eighth king, but really belongs to the seven and is headed for destruction.
12 The ten horns that you saw represent ten kings who have not yet been crowned; they will receive royal authority along with the beast for one hour.

Five kings have already come. Among them are Antiochus IV and Nero. Antiochus IV set up the Abomination of Desolation in the Holy Temple. And Nero has already been discussed in this tread. I suspect that Hitler was also an Antichrist. There were two others, but I am uncertain as to who they were.

Revelation give instructions regarding the sixth Antichrist. It is specific to a time, a particular person, and those around him. There's also the question of the particular person in each time who serves as the Katechon, the Withholder. For Antiochus IV the Withholder might have been Gaius Popillius Laenas.

>>17936719
Transubstantiation is not the Mark of the Beast.

Revelation 16:1-2
1 I heard a loud voice speaking from the temple to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the seven bowls of God’s fury upon the earth.”
2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth. Festering and ugly sores broke out on those who had the mark of the beast or worshiped its image.

People who receive the Mark of the Beast will suffer festering and ugly sores. This will happen within the lifetime of those who receive it.

By contrast millions of people have believed in Transubstantiation and have died without suffering festering and ugly sores. Furthermore, Transubstantiation is in no way tied to the act of buying and selling. People in places where the population believes in Transubstantiation, Catholic, Lutheran, and Orthodox countries, can buy and sell as they wish.

>>17937771
Note that the beast on which Babylon sits is the exact same one in Rev. 13; both are beasts with seven heads and ten horns which are kings. Now I don't think there's any reason to suppose "king" means an individual person rather than a kingdom, as I think the ten kings who did not yet have horns are the kingdoms of medieval Europe which in a sense received their crowns from the pope, and also despised him. The seven kings I take for, in order, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and Islam. Note that the beast itself is an eighth king and one of the seven, it is both the same (because both are Rome), and distinct (the first was pagan, the second was papist). The beast is clearly drawn from Daniel 7, and is the 4th beast of that vision, since both have 10 horns which are 10 kings, and John's beast has all the animal features of the first three (lion, bear, leopard). Notice that the seven heads are also seven hills and mystery Babylon sits on them, which I think is more clearly than anything in the Revelation the church of Rome: it is clear that she is a counterfeit of the Church, since that is a bride, chaste, and pure, while she is called a whore, a fornicator, and a murderer, as the satanic parallel to God's people. Babylon is the great city with kingdom over the kings of the earth and sitting on seven hills, which could only be understood as Rome. Also consider that the mark of the beast is parallel to God's name being sealed on the foreheads of the saints, which shows that it is a counterfeit of religion, specifically transubstantiation and the mass.

>>17937870
>People who receive the Mark of the Beast will suffer festering and ugly sores.
I don't think this should be interpreted any less allegorically than the rest of the book.
>Furthermore, Transubstantiation is in no way tied to the act of buying and selling
But during the middle ages, before the people of God came out of Babylon (18:4), it did have a great deal to do with participation in society and was used to identify Protestants (true Christians).

>>17937895
The kings need to be individuals in order to be assembled for the battle of Armageddon. Also the examples of Antiochus IV and Nero both clearly testify to the existence of distinct earthly persons.

The problem with identifying the Medieval Catholic Church is that it went on far beyond what would fulfill Revelation 17:12. The ten kings only receive royal authority for one hour. By contrast the kingdoms of the Medieval period ruled with royal authority for centuries. The kings of France ruled with royal authority and Papal approval for almost an entire millennium, longer even than the duration of the entire Roman Empire. There's also the fact that you mention no Katechon.

>>17937911
What makes you think the book is entirely allegory?

Protestants didn't exist until Martin Luther. The Book of Revelation is very clear that opposition to Babylon will exist among an identifiable portion of the population for the duration.

>>17937920
>The kings need to be individuals in order to be assembled for the battle of Armageddon
That really doesn't follow, kingdoms can assemble for battle too. I brought up Daniel 7 because there it's explicitly kingdoms: "The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it."
>The ten kings only receive royal authority for one hour.
I would not interpret any of the time periods as literal, in this case "one hour" conveys their ephemerality as tied to the beast, the focus is on the fact they are receiving their authority "with the beast".
>There's also the fact that you mention no Katechon.
Well neither do any of the texts we've been talking about, but if we go to 2 Thessalonians I think that's one of the strongest scriptures in support of this interpretation since the man of sin sits in the temple of God, declaring himself to be God. The restrainer would be the Roman empire.
>>17937925
>What makes you think the book is entirely allegory?
I think it's mostly allegory, especially after the letters to the seven churches. My argument for that would be the facts that it's obviously allegory, and everyone else thinks it is too. Not only is the book full of allegorical figures, they are sometimes explicitly identified with their antitype e.g. "the ten horns are ten kings". And inevitably nobody has a primarily literal interpretation, as nobody takes the beast or Babylon among other things to be literal. I believe John had a literal and true vision, but he expressed what he witnessed mostly in allegory.
>Protestants didn't exist until Martin Luther.
Apologies, I spoke unclearly and didn't mean to conflate the Reformation and pre-Reformation periods.
>The Book of Revelation is very clear that opposition to Babylon will exist among an identifiable portion of the population for the duration.
It did: the Waldensians, and Lollards, and Hussites.

>>17937998
One millennium is not one hour. France was ruled as a Catholic Kingdom from 508 AD when Clovis I was baptized until 1789 when the revolution occurred. That's 1281 years of rule as a Catholic state. That length of time is greater than the entirety of Protestant history from Luther onward. True ephemeralality is found only in the likes of Hitler, Stain or Mao, dictatorships that can be measured in human lifetimes.

The Katechon can't be the Roman Empire because the Roman Empire was persecuting Christians under Emperor Diocletian. Individual figures perhaps like Gaius Popillius Laenas or Constantine, but not the empire as a whole. In addition, the Roman Empire became Chalcedonian Christian in the century and a half before it's collapse.

The letters to the seven churches pertain both to actual real world churches in Asia Minor and to seven groups of churches that will exist in the time of Tribulation.

I will accept that the Lollards and Hussites as proto-Protestants. However the Catholic Church was instituted by Jesus Christ when he commissioned St. Peter. From the time of St. Peter to the present day there have been many popes. Nor have those popes declared themselves to be God on earth. For your theory to work there needs to be an institutional Katechon for the last 2000 years, which there isn't. There also needs to be both an Antichrist and a False Prophet. These are two distinct individuals in the Book of Revelation. There is no organization for the last 2000 years outside the Catholic Church asking people to be Catholic.

>>17938018
>France was ruled as a Catholic Kingdom from 508 AD
Romanism did not exist in 508.
>However the Catholic Church was instituted by Jesus Christ
The Catholic Church certainly, in the ancient and biblical sense of that term, but Rome is no longer a member of her and is no church of Christ. And besides the many ways in which the church of Rome has failed from the faith once delivered to the saints, not only is a papacy totally foreign to scripture but it is wholly condemned: "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant."
>Nor have those popes declared themselves to be God on earth
All them have, and all of them do, not in name perhaps but in deed. He claims that one is not a Christian unless they bend their knee to him, and apart from submission to himself nobody will be saved. He has usurped the authority of God by arrogating to himself supreme authority, refusing the tribunal of scripture, and daring to set the authority of God's word upon his own as if he were above God. And he claims titles proper to all three persons of the Godhead, "holy father", "head of the church", "vicar of Christ", and many other similar things has he done. And now I appeal to you since you have been deceived into his counterfeit, for I tell you that if you cease making any effort to be justified before God but trust entirely in the finished work of Jesus Christ you shall no longer have mortal sin but be guaranteed with certainty a place in paradise since His righteousness will be your righteousness, and I relay to you the command of God, "Come out of her, my people".

>>17938101
>Romanism did not exist in 508
I can give you a list of 50 popes from St. Peter onward during that time period.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes

One of the titles of the pope is Servant of the Servants of God.

The title of Vicar of Christ does not equate to that of God on earth which is what you first alleged. You also alleged that the pope was the Antichrist but you fail to say who or what is the False Prophet. The text is very clear, there are two beasts, not one. Unless you can identify an organization outside the Catholic Church making people be Catholic your theory is not based in Scripture.

Revelation 13:11-13
11 Then I saw another beast come up out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb’s but spoke like a dragon.
12 It wielded all the authority of the first beast in its sight and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound had been healed.
13 It performed great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in the sight of everyone.

Revelation 19:20
20 The beast was caught and with it the false prophet who had performed in its sight the signs by which he led astray those who had accepted the mark of the beast and those who had worshiped its image. The two were thrown alive into the fiery pool burning with sulfur.

I will say what I think I know. The Antichrist and False Prophet are human beings. Like Antiochus IV, Nero, and perhaps Hitler. There will be ten kings just as Hitler had minor allies in Europe. There will be persecution, just as Antiochus IV, Nero, and Hitler persecuted Christians and Jews.

>>17937771
Ten kings must be ten world leaders, probably G7

>>17938423
Yes, however note that the text says they have not yet been crowned. So any leader who has already been crowned, who is already ruling right now and has been ruling for over a year is probably not of their number. And certainly anyone who has been ruling for over 4 years is not of the ten. They will only receive royal authority for one hour, a time period that in biblical thinking is less than one year.

>>17935335 (OP)
Me

>>17938128
>I can give you a list of 50 popes from St. Peter onward during that time period.
You could also give me a list of muslim prophets before Muhammad, it wouldn't have anything to do with reality. Peter was no pope nor even a bishop, nor were the early bishops of Rome popes, but the papacy developed gradually over many centuries and even then, the gratuitous heresies and idolatries of Romanism would still not develop for yet more centuries.
>The title of Vicar of Christ does not equate to that of God on earth which is what you first alleged
Vicar of Christ means he stands in Christ's place ruling over Christ's people in His absence, which is proper to the Paraclete, and therefore a blasphemy for him to claim the title.
>You also alleged that the pope was the Antichrist but you fail to say who or what is the False Prophet. The text is very clear, there are two beasts, not one. Unless you can identify an organization outside the Catholic Church making people be Catholic your theory is not based in Scripture.
Stop trying to put a stumbling block in your way. I identified the beast as the pope, so the only thing from which I must distinguish the false prophet is the pope, and not the entire church of Rome. And the false prophet I would identify to be those wonder-workers which by false miracles and lying wonders have deceived many to worship the beast, as Rome's apologists frequently cite the false miracles as proof of their religion and her converts frequently cite them as the ground of their conversion.

>>17935347
>which say they are jews, and are not
>are not jews
Christcucks use this to prove worshipping jews is antisemitic but the verse they're quoting means that the synagogue (lit. Jewish temple) of Satan (lit. enemy) are not real jews, so it's either Gentiles larping as jews (just like christcucks) or one particular Jewish sect with whom the author disagrees.

>>17938815
There are no real jews anymore, the last true jews accepted the messiah long ago, effectively becoming christian. Modern people claiming to be jews, like Epstein, Weinstein, George Soros and whoever /pol/ goes on and on about are not the same as biblical jews.

>>17938815
That's literally true though, your autistic obsession with Jews is driven by (((their))) modern antics which is driven by their satanic unbelief. Biblical Jews were based and redpilled and did literally nothing wrong.